Trump surrenders for historic fourth arrest

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

"Just find me...11,780 votes" on a tape recording, kind of sounds like evidence. As does, "Look, you can do the right thing (sic)". There really is only one way to interpret those statements. Three recounts by GA State officials put to rest any doubt as to who won. That the officials carrying out the recounts and investigation were (R) may not be relevant, but defense would be hard pressed to claim bias. Both Raffensperger and the Governor said they voted for trump, so he was obviously their preferred candidate. Still, they found nothing to change the vote, and thus stood up to trump's pressure.

 

Certainly the grand jury thought enough of the evidence presented to them to recommend indictment.

 

We'll see all of it in court. Should be entertaining. I wonder (NOT) if trump will release the "piles of irrefutable proof" he has showing both fraud and his victory. I suspect his lawyers, knowing they would be disbarred for presenting lies in court, will not be bringing trump's 'piles' into the courtroom. I also doubt sidney powell's lawyer will submit evidence that Hugo Chavez rose from the grave, programmed an Italian satellite, and then changed the votes in Dominion voting machines.

 

The classified documents case against trump is easiest, as willful possession in a non-SCIF by anyone not authorized to see or retain classified docs is a felony. As ex-POTUS, trump has zero security clearance. His 'declassified in my mind' is ludicrous, and had he actually declassified, there would be a paper trail with the signature of WH counsel on every doc. Since non of that exists, and because his lying about having returned everything shows willful retention, plus his former IT chief now says trump told him to erase security camera footage showing boxes of classified material being moved, he's guilty.

 

Personally, I'm glad there will be a trial, as his defense should be good for lots of laughs.

 

Now I also hope that Jack Smith will add "Sedition" to the 6 January indictment, which he could do given that some of trump's former staff who testified to the grand jury claim trump knew he lost and trump was intimately involved in the fake elector scheme. Sedition is a capital offense, which could result in the death penalty.

Just wake up then?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, proton said:

Threats have to be eliminated or fitted up, happened here, in Russia, China, Myanmar. USA is just the same.

If ever there was a case of self-inflicted damage, it's Donald Trump's.

[nauseus]

56 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Proving Consciousness of guilt is standard legal procedure.

 

During the trials, your internet friends will try to convince you that lots of normal procedures are somehow weird and unusual. Don't fall for their propaganda.

OK then. But I will be sure to avoid your propaganda first.

[Danderman123]

59 minutes ago, proton said:

You really believe that ? ????

Yep, that's how it works in Real Life.

 

The courts are not going to let Trump whine about being a political prisoner, like they didn't with the Oath Keepers.

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

This is from the link I posted above early this morning which prompted the tag team so I will just leave at this:

 

But to convict Trump, the prosecutors will have to show all 31 documents to the jury, making them public and available to anyone — including our foreign enemies. Moreover, my experience in Espionage Act cases has shown that the prosecution often has to disclose additional classified information to explain why the retained documents were potentially damaging. The government will have to reveal vastly more classified information than if it decided not to proceed with the case. And that does not include the additional classified documents the defense will claim it needs to show to make its case.

 

https://archive.is/UJhXJ#selection-1237.0-1237.599

 

My understanding is that there were more documents but the FBI didn't indict for them for that very reason. The assumption is that they are prepared to disclose the 31 documents for which he was charged.

[Walker88]

There's a certain irony in the fact that trump and much of his cult are big putin supporters, considering a threatened coup against putin by Wagner Chief prigozhin got prigozhin's plane blown out of the sky, yet trumpers go apoplectic and scream 'witch hunt' and 'weaponized DoJ' when trump is arrested for trying to overthrow US democracy.

 

I'd bet prigozhin and the other 9 people on his jet would prefer a mere arrest to what they suffered instead.

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Just wake up then?

No idea what your comment means.

 

What I have noticed is you cannot refute any of the charges brought against trump.

 

Why would he be all in on Fake Electors? Why would a country club owner and wedding planner need TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD documents? Why would anyone honest lie to the FBI and claim they returned all the stolen classified docs? Where did donny think GA SecState Raffensperger might "find 11.780 votes" AFTER three recounts and investigations revealed no fraud? And just for good measure, why would donny order Michael Cohen to pay off Stormy Daniels and then book the payoff as a business expense, then watch Cohen go to jail for following donny's order?

 

Being a convicted sex offender and a convicted charity fraudster does not say much about donny's character. 91 felony charges seem to fit his lifelong pattern of behavior. Of course the court and jury will decide his fate, but the evidence is pretty solid.

 

 

[Danderman123]

3 of Trump's co-defendents argue that they were acting under the aegis of the Federal government when they pretended to be electors, and therefore immune from state prosecution.

 

Of course, they are being charged with pretending to be operating under the Federal aegis, so claiming it again won't help them.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

No idea what your comment means.

 

What I have noticed is you cannot refute any of the charges brought against trump.

 

Why would he be all in on Fake Electors? Why would a country club owner and wedding planner need TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD documents? Why would anyone honest lie to the FBI and claim they returned all the stolen classified docs? Where did donny think GA SecState Raffensperger might "find 11.780 votes" AFTER three recounts and investigations revealed no fraud? And just for good measure, why would donny order Michael Cohen to pay off Stormy Daniels and then book the payoff as a business expense, then watch Cohen go to jail for following donny's order?

 

Being a convicted sex offender and a convicted charity fraudster does not say much about donny's character. 91 felony charges seem to fit his lifelong pattern of behavior. Of course the court and jury will decide his fate, but the evidence is pretty solid.

 

 

The Trump cultists have no interest in the facts you laid out.

 

Facts are irrelevant to them.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Danderman123

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

There's a certain irony in the fact that trump and much of his cult are big putin supporters, considering a threatened coup against putin by Wagner Chief prigozhin got prigozhin's plane blown out of the sky, yet trumpers go apoplectic and scream 'witch hunt' and 'weaponized DoJ' when trump is arrested for trying to overthrow US democracy.

 

I'd bet prigozhin and the other 9 people on his jet would prefer a mere arrest to what they suffered instead.

I didn't think of that yet, but you're right, it is ironic.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

No idea what your comment means.

 

What I have noticed is you cannot refute any of the charges brought against trump.

 

Why would he be all in on Fake Electors? Why would a country club owner and wedding planner need TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD documents? Why would anyone honest lie to the FBI and claim they returned all the stolen classified docs? Where did donny think GA SecState Raffensperger might "find 11.780 votes" AFTER three recounts and investigations revealed no fraud? And just for good measure, why would donny order Michael Cohen to pay off Stormy Daniels and then book the payoff as a business expense, then watch Cohen go to jail for following donny's order?

 

Being a convicted sex offender and a convicted charity fraudster does not say much about donny's character. 91 felony charges seem to fit his lifelong pattern of behavior. Of course the court and jury will decide his fate, but the evidence is pretty solid.

 

 

Great to see I'm being monitored! You're partly right, I won't refute or agree with the charges brought against Trump because the full truth of these needs to be revealed.

[still kicking]

Just found this I know it is off topic, but it made me spill my coffee all over the laptop.

I am just a good golfer/athlete’: Trump’s golf claim at home tournament mocked

Former president Donald Trump mocked over latest sensational golf claim | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Great to see I'm being monitored! You're partly right, I won't refute or agree with the charges brought against Trump because the full truth of these needs to be revealed.

And you, of course, know the full truth. Care to share that with the rest of us?

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

And you, of course, know the full truth. Care to share that with the rest of us?

If you try comprehending what I said, then you might avoid making such obtuse comments.  

[still kicking]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

And you, of course, know the full truth. Care to share that with the rest of us?

Asking a Trump supporter?

[Danderman123]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

Great to see I'm being monitored! You're partly right, I won't refute or agree with the charges brought against Trump because the full truth of these needs to be revealed.

I believe you have previously stated that the 91 charges against Trump were bogus because witchhunt.

[newnative]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The Trump cultists have no interest in the facts you laid out.

 

Facts are irrelevant to them.

     Boy, you said it.  We've had 19 pages of this thread, plus the lengthy earlier thread with the federal indictments, with the facts of the cases clearly and precisely laid out in well-written fashion over and over and over again by different posters, very intelligent and patient; I know I've become better informed reading their posts. 

     The Trump cultists just do not want to hear any of it.  Period.  As you said, they have no interest in the facts, and facts are irrelevant to them.   With that rigid  mindset, there seems to be no way to reach them, no matter how hard this poster or that poster tries to break through.   Likely after I post this a Trump cultist will respond with the question, 'What facts?'   Or, perhaps something along the lines of, 'We don't need your facts because we have our alternate truth that Trump has given us.'   One of the things I've learned from these two threads is it will be a complete waste of time, for not patient me, to bother to respond. 

     It doesn't seem all that long ago that poor Gary Hart, a popular candidate for President at the time, had to withdraw from the race after a rather tame dalliance with a lady not his wife.  Jimmy Carter also got into deep kimchi in a Playboy interview for merely admitting to thinking impure thoughts.  Trump, on the other hand, gets a pass from his cultists for raping a woman and paying hush money to a hooker, among other sex offenses.  Not to mention all the extremely serious current indictments, state and federal.  Or, all the other disgusting things he has done, including serial lying.  Lying also used to be a big no-no with American presidents; Trump didn't just chop down the 'ol cherry tree, he hacked it to shreds.

     I do find it distressing and disturbing that there are way too many of these Trump cultists than you'd think there would be, who have, let's face it, completely disengaged their brains when it comes to processing any negative facts regarding Trump.   A recent poll had just 28% of Republicans believing Trump had committed a crime.  I'm incredulous that figure is so low, given all the overwhelming evidence.  That's scary for America, even with 62% of all Americans believing he did commit a crime--also very low, in my opinion.  Reading the cult comments on this thread, and the previous thread, have both been eye-openers for me, as an American.   

[Walker88]

14 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The Trump cultists have no interest in the facts you laid out.

 

Facts are irrelevant to them.

The Cult of the Absurd

 

You either see it for what it is, or you are a part of it.

 

Anyone who knows the schtick of trump's mentor Roy Cohn, and who has any sort of adult perception, knows what trump's intent is in whatever scam trump tries to pull off and in whatever statement he makes. His goobers, however, twist themselves into not just a pretzel, but a Mobius Strip. They excuse or offer an absurd explanation for all trump's criminal activity, and when confronted with too many facts, go back to the beginning and start over again.

 

trump called his goobers to come to DC on 6 January 2021 saying "It'll be wild !" Why would a pro forma certification, which had been without incident dozens of times in US history, be "wild"? Why did trump hold a rally on the Mall, within walking distance of the Capitol, tell his goobers to 'march to the Capitol', speak of 'Pence doing the right thing', say "peacefully" one time (as Roy Cohn would have taught him), but say "fight" 20 times in the same speech (fight for what?)?  Why did trump pull the metal detectors when informed some of his goobers were likely armed, saying "they won't hurt me". Apparently it was okay if they marched to the Capitol, possibly armed, to hurt others.

 

No non-cultist believes that when trump called GA SecState Raffensperger and told him to "just find me 11.780 votes", that trump meant anything less than "cheat for me". There is no other possible explanation, since as Raffensperger explained to trump, recounts and investigations found nothing untoward.

 

No rational adult believes trump "declassified with his mind" the documents he stole from the WH, and by now all should have read that there is an actual, formal procedure for declassification that leaves a paper trail (which in trump's case does not exist). Still, some cultists believe both that trump's mind declassified AND the FBI planted them.

 

No rational adult believes trump did not have an affair with Stormy Daniels and then order Michael Cohen to pay her off. Cultists seem to believe Cohen took the initiative on his own, and for no reason that he wanted to contribute to Stormy's retirement fund..

 

trump cultists are losers. They have lived their entire life as losers. trump came along and for the first time in their mediocre lives trump told them they weren't losers and that their lack of success is others' fault. They NEED to believe that, so they need trump to stick around. They convince themselves trump loves America because he dry humps the flag, when in reality his pure self-interest is 100% transparent (trump had to ask CoS Kelly what the USS Arizona was, so ignorant is trump of history and sacrifice.) They cannot accept trump is a conman, liar, traitor to US democracy, a thief, a sex offender (convicted), a charity fraudster (convicted), because that would mean all he has told them about failure not being their fault is a lie.

 

Cult leaders find a weakness in, and a hook into, their followers. They exploit the needs and the weaknesses. They deliver promises that are always coming, but never actually come....but cultists have to continue to believe and wait. They cannot give up the dream, or fantasy of finally being something.

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

The Cult of the Absurd

 

You either see it for what it is, or you are a part of it.

 

Anyone who knows the schtick of trump's mentor Roy Cohn, and who has any sort of adult perception, knows what trump's intent is in whatever scam trump tries to pull off and in whatever statement he makes. His goobers, however, twist themselves into not just a pretzel, but a Mobius Strip. They excuse or offer an absurd explanation for all trump's criminal activity, and when confronted with too many facts, go back to the beginning and start over again.

 

trump called his goobers to come to DC on 6 January 2021 saying "It'll be wild !" Why would a pro forma certification, which had been without incident dozens of times in US history, be "wild"? Why did trump hold a rally on the Mall, within walking distance of the Capitol, tell his goobers to 'march to the Capitol', speak of 'Pence doing the right thing', say "peacefully" one time (as Roy Cohn would have taught him), but say "fight" 20 times in the same speech (fight for what?)?  Why did trump pull the metal detectors when informed some of his goobers were likely armed, saying "they won't hurt me". Apparently it was okay if they marched to the Capitol, possibly armed, to hurt others.

 

No non-cultist believes that when trump called GA SecState Raffensperger and told him to "just find me 11.780 votes", that trump meant anything less than "cheat for me". There is no other possible explanation, since as Raffensperger explained to trump, recounts and investigations found nothing untoward.

 

No rational adult believes trump "declassified with his mind" the documents he stole from the WH, and by now all should have read that there is an actual, formal procedure for declassification that leaves a paper trail (which in trump's case does not exist). Still, some cultists believe both that trump's mind declassified AND the FBI planted them.

 

No rational adult believes trump did not have an affair with Stormy Daniels and then order Michael Cohen to pay her off. Cultists seem to believe Cohen took the initiative on his own, and for no reason that he wanted to contribute to Stormy's retirement fund..

 

trump cultists are losers. They have lived their entire life as losers. trump came along and for the first time in their mediocre lives trump told them they weren't losers and that their lack of success is others' fault. They NEED to believe that, so they need trump to stick around. They convince themselves trump loves America because he dry humps the flag, when in reality his pure self-interest is 100% transparent (trump had to ask CoS Kelly what the USS Arizona was, so ignorant is trump of history and sacrifice.) They cannot accept trump is a conman, liar, traitor to US democracy, a thief, a sex offender (convicted), a charity fraudster (convicted), because that would mean all he has told them about failure not being their fault is a lie.

 

Cult leaders find a weakness in, and a hook into, their followers. They exploit the needs and the weaknesses. They deliver promises that are always coming, but never actually come....but cultists have to continue to believe and wait. They cannot give up the dream, or fantasy of finally being something.

 

I was watching a Netflix documentary last night called 'How to become a Tyrant'. It featured all the usual suspects Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Sadam Hussein, The Kim Dynasty etc but what was of particular interest was the "tyrant Playbook' that all of these men followed to get to where they were. There were so many common traits it was really remarkable; find something in common with the disinfranchised masses and use that to get them to support you - beat a nationalistic drum that only true patriots will follow - find a common enemy and demonise them - malign the free media and then control it yourself - re-invent history to reflect better on yourself - question the law and then take charge of it yourself.  

 

Remind you of anyone? 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:26 PM, stevenl said:

 

Avoiding since your answer has nothing to do with the question.

Since when was I required to answer your question, which I think is pointless?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

His goobers, however, twist themselves into not just a pretzel, but a Mobius Strip. They excuse or offer an absurd explanation for all trump's criminal activity, and when confronted with too many facts, go back to the beginning and start over again.

Substitute biden for Trump and I'll agree with that.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Remind you of anyone? 

Quite a few Democrats.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

They cannot accept trump is a conman, liar, traitor to US democracy, a thief, a sex offender (convicted), a charity fraudster (convicted), because that would mean all he has told them about failure not being their fault is a lie.

I can accept that, but I think his opposing politician is worse.

 

Seems that this election may come down ( for the few undecided voters ) to which candidate is worse to vote against.

[Peabody]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:30 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

Alleged crimes, you need to wait for a Court appearance and a guilty verdict before you can make that statement 

Exactly.

Reminds me of why the vilification, without charges or trial, was so wrong for Adolf H. Responsible for the murder of millions? Where's the trial and conviction??

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, Peabody said:

Exactly.

Reminds me of why the vilification, without charges or trial, was so wrong for Adolf H. Responsible for the murder of millions? Where's the trial and conviction??

Hitler wasn't put on trial because he died before he could get arrested.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Nick Carter icp

[candide]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

The Cult of the Absurd

 

You either see it for what it is, or you are a part of it.

 

Anyone who knows the schtick of trump's mentor Roy Cohn, and who has any sort of adult perception, knows what trump's intent is in whatever scam trump tries to pull off and in whatever statement he makes. His goobers, however, twist themselves into not just a pretzel, but a Mobius Strip. They excuse or offer an absurd explanation for all trump's criminal activity, and when confronted with too many facts, go back to the beginning and start over again.

 

trump called his goobers to come to DC on 6 January 2021 saying "It'll be wild !" Why would a pro forma certification, which had been without incident dozens of times in US history, be "wild"? Why did trump hold a rally on the Mall, within walking distance of the Capitol, tell his goobers to 'march to the Capitol', speak of 'Pence doing the right thing', say "peacefully" one time (as Roy Cohn would have taught him), but say "fight" 20 times in the same speech (fight for what?)?  Why did trump pull the metal detectors when informed some of his goobers were likely armed, saying "they won't hurt me". Apparently it was okay if they marched to the Capitol, possibly armed, to hurt others.

 

No non-cultist believes that when trump called GA SecState Raffensperger and told him to "just find me 11.780 votes", that trump meant anything less than "cheat for me". There is no other possible explanation, since as Raffensperger explained to trump, recounts and investigations found nothing untoward.

 

No rational adult believes trump "declassified with his mind" the documents he stole from the WH, and by now all should have read that there is an actual, formal procedure for declassification that leaves a paper trail (which in trump's case does not exist). Still, some cultists believe both that trump's mind declassified AND the FBI planted them.

 

No rational adult believes trump did not have an affair with Stormy Daniels and then order Michael Cohen to pay her off. Cultists seem to believe Cohen took the initiative on his own, and for no reason that he wanted to contribute to Stormy's retirement fund..

 

trump cultists are losers. They have lived their entire life as losers. trump came along and for the first time in their mediocre lives trump told them they weren't losers and that their lack of success is others' fault. They NEED to believe that, so they need trump to stick around. They convince themselves trump loves America because he dry humps the flag, when in reality his pure self-interest is 100% transparent (trump had to ask CoS Kelly what the USS Arizona was, so ignorant is trump of history and sacrifice.) They cannot accept trump is a conman, liar, traitor to US democracy, a thief, a sex offender (convicted), a charity fraudster (convicted), because that would mean all he has told them about failure not being their fault is a lie.

 

Cult leaders find a weakness in, and a hook into, their followers. They exploit the needs and the weaknesses. They deliver promises that are always coming, but never actually come....but cultists have to continue to believe and wait. They cannot give up the dream, or fantasy of finally being something.

 

Exactly! He gives a sense of influence and power to people who have little power or influence in real life.

Of course, he doesn't give them a real power. The swamp behind him (and he is part of it) doesn't allow that. So he gives them a negative power on people they don't like: LGBT, black, educated, foreigners, etc... Hence the culture war.

[Peabody]

45 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Hitler wasn't put on trial because he died before he could get arrested.

Boy, did that fly over your head!  ????

So you don't think H committed any crimes, then?

Epstein, Bin Laden, et al? Guys in Guantanamo for >20 years, no trials?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Peabody

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Peabody said:

Boy, did that fly over your head!  ????

So you don't think H committed any crimes, then?

Epstein, Bin Laden, et al? Guys in Guantanamo for >20 years, no trials?

You are being rather vague and I am having difficulty following your points .

   I also have no idea what you mean about Epstein and Bin Laden .

  What point are you trying make about Hitler , Epstein and Bin Laden ?

  I cannot understand .

Trump being arrested...........................where do Hitler, Epstein and Bin Laden come into the picture ?

[Peabody]

31 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You are being rather vague and I am having difficulty following your points .

   I also have no idea what you mean about Epstein and Bin Laden .

  What point are you trying make about Hitler , Epstein and Bin Laden ?

  I cannot understand .

Trump being arrested...........................where do Hitler, Epstein and Bin Laden come into the picture ?

Swoosh.

No trials, no convictions , therefore no wrong-doing.  Clear enough?

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Peabody said:

Swoosh.

No trials, no convictions , therefore no wrong-doing.  Clear enough?

Its not clear at 

They didn't face trails because they all died .

Hitler, Bin Laden and Epstein all died before they could face trial for their alleged crimes .

   How does that relate to Trump being arrested and facing a trial  ?

   They didn't have a trial because they died, rather than them not doing anything wrong