More than 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Here's what researchers say is to blame.

[novacova]

Excessive taxation only leads to government squandering and impedes spending. Free market capitalism with limited taxation is what flourishes the economy, more businesses hire, pay higher income, more money cycles through the system, the government receives more money. Simple economics as opposed to shortcut quick fix playing the game of victimhooding & evil rich penalizing polarizing politics. The premise of taxation is government control, not anything to do with lifting the economy and benefiting those with less income. And the idea of restricting oil decimates the economy, everything costs more, everything, pure utter stupidity. Oil companies get richer? So freaking what, then everybody has more money. If anyone is bothered by this then great! Because it inspires a warm fuzzy mood.

[Lacessit]

I paid off the mortgage on my first house within 18 months. Nowadays, it's 40-50 years.

That repayment time exists now because Australia has housing policies such as negative gearing which favor the rich. It's a sacred cow that is ripe for slaughter.

It's one thing to tax the rich equitably, another entirely to give them legal rorts not available to the average wage earner.

Some people live from paycheck to paycheck because they must. Others do because they cannot forgo the latest smartphone, new car, big house, entertainment system or clothing fashion trend. They don't know how to save money, and spend a lot on non-essentials.

My father taught me to avoid debt like the plague. It's why I will die solvent.

 

[fredwiggy]

Something which some are missing, or are rich and haven't a clue because their job didn't entitle actually working but pushing papers around a desk, is that everyone wants to have a few extra "things". Most pay a mortgage for 30 years because if they tried to pay it off in 15, they might not be able to take that once a year vacation with their families. This isn't a luxury. It's a necessity, because working 11 months out of the year, day in and day out, and coming home exhausted (for the laborers), and mentally tired (for the office workers, et al), gives you something to look forward to. People that are workaholics die sometimes way too young, or are mentally destroyed by the time retirement comes. having a nice car instead of a piece of junk that isn't reliable is another reason to pay less monthly payments. Another is school books, clothes, food, phones for teenagers (not a luxury anymore), daycare payments, doctor bills for children. This isn't about wasting money on parties, drugs, alcoholism, or more than one trip a year. This is wanting to have a life beyond working. Working is of course necessary, as everyone has bills to pay. But working just to exist isn't why we are here. People that don't have families, or children, have a much easier way in regards to paying things off earlier. There is a legitimate reason most pay 30 year loans, and this is it.

[ChaiyaTH]

This figure is almost over a decade old, if not already. Same as it is long known with the USA stats that they barely have 500 dollar for emergencies, without turning to one of the many credit cards. But the reality is that another 3/10 barely survives 3 months. 1/10 6 months. 

So in reality less than 1/10 or 1/20 people, have their things properly in order. And that is still not rich. It is the same in almost all other western countries. 

 

Last but not least, to make it even worse, those who are in the better situation, usually are older already, so it is kind of logical that they now do have some buffer, but if you look at the actual performance and wealth in general, even those people kind of suck. That includes retirees today with 500-750K.

 

Just like youtube videos, there are always millions of views for making more money, getting rich trading, doing this or that, yet there is barely 100 on a million views taking action with results.

 

They say it is just how the universe works, the most is always with a few. Just like a few football players are the best, the hottest guy get most girls etc etc etc. 

The funny thing on this universe works is, that on every research done, when redistributing it equally, it still goes back to a few every single time.

 

So if you make good money doing something few (can) do, certainly do not stop.

Edited September 2, 2023 by ChaiyaTH

[KhunLA]

51 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You have written a treatise on why the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy should be repealed.

I read that as spending should be cut. Until you can find more revenue.

 

Foreign aid should be eliminated.  USA military should be on / in USA land / waters.

 

Energy companies should be nationalized, as those windfall profits belong to the citizens.  Socialism & capitalism can work together.

 

Pharmaceutical/healthcare/Medicare pay outs are just silly.  

I had an ECG/EKG here/TH ... $5.80 (฿200)

Philly, PA, USA, price ... $525-$1400

source

 

 

[Danderman123]

42 minutes ago, novacova said:

Excessive taxation only leads to government squandering and impedes spending. Free market capitalism with limited taxation is what flourishes the economy, more businesses hire, pay higher income, more money cycles through the system, the government receives more money. Simple economics as opposed to shortcut quick fix playing the game of victimhooding & evil rich penalizing polarizing politics. The premise of taxation is government control, not anything to do with lifting the economy and benefiting those with less income. And the idea of restricting oil decimates the economy, everything costs more, everything, pure utter stupidity. Oil companies get richer? So freaking what, then everybody has more money. If anyone is bothered by this then great! Because it inspires a warm fuzzy mood.

The top marginal tax rate during the Eisenhower administration was 90%.

 

Was that excessive?

 

Eisenhower balanced budgets. Was he squandering tax dollars?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

You need a better accountant.

No, I'm good, as that was on a $250k trade, so <37%/92.5k.  I could only BS so much, without triggering an audit.

Edited September 2, 2023 by KhunLA

[wwest5829]

17 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Runaway inflation. And hollowing out the manufacturing base.  I think we are the last generation to retire comfortably—although to do it, some of us had to came here.

Certainly is my case. Living pay day to pay day ... on my retirement budget of $2200.00 USD a month here in Thailand (family of three0.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Your life experiences were back when work was available everywhere and you could buy your own home on your first wage. The world has changed but you're still living in the past.

Not really much different.  Was making $5 hr/$200 week/$880 month (22 days)  Mortgage was $365, so 41% of income.

 

Using $15 hr X  8 X 22 = $2640 X 41% = $1082

That qualifies for shy of  $150k mortgage, 30yr/7.97%. ($1097.51)

 

That's a single person, flipping burgers at McD, double that for a couple $2000 for mortgage.  Cry me a river.

 

If you can't find a house for $100,000 in USA, you ain't looking very hard.   My brother sold his townhouse (3bdrm w/pool), Philly suburb, last year for $55k.

 

Don't believe the BS you read in MSM.   

You have choices, just need to exercise them.

 

So a couple flipping burgers CAN afford a house, a new car & a holiday, on the 'new' minimum wage at McD

 

OR ... buy 2 or 3 house, fix 'em up, rent out 2, live free in one, or supplement your rent elsewhere. 

option #2

Edited September 2, 2023 by KhunLA

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly right. Back then, even though I earned a moderate income, driving was cheap and I never worried about being able to afford to drive. Rents were affordable and places to rent sufficient- not so now.

Real cost of houses has increased along with electricity and water bills.

Public health has become a bad joke.

 

If I were working now as a nurse, I could not afford to save anything if renting.

Not so. It really isn't.

[impulse]

Not to worry.  Those millions and millions of illegals are going to drive up the wages when they get their work permits.  And stifle demand for gub'ment subsidized healthcare. 

 

Isn't that the way it works?

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Your life experiences were back when work was available everywhere and you could buy your own home on your first wage. The world has changed but you're still living in the past.

A generalized comment.

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Because Reagan and Trump taxed you less and the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer.

"Being taxed less makes others poorer"

 

That's given me the best laugh for a long time. Thanks.

Edited September 2, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Now add in work place pensions, available to most working people in the 80s, and many having gold plated final salary schemes, opportunities that very few enjoy in 2023.

It is law that anyone earning over £ 9000 per annum is enrolled in a work pension scheme, unless they are stupid enough to opt out.

[Scott Tracy]

18 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Those $100 000K high earners should be taxed more to help pay for the poor people  

Ooooh, socialism, controversial.

[Trippy]

11 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is law that anyone earning over £ 9000 per annum is enrolled in a work pension scheme, unless they are stupid enough to opt out.

In the US??

[Ralf001]

Whats wrong with living pay check to pay check, I do it every month !

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, Trippy said:

In the US??

I was replying to someone who commented about UK, hence my use of £££

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

And on the flip side Singapore has some of the lowest taxes in the world (max 22% income tax, I was paying 12% on multi-6 figure salary) & yet is one of the most prosperous countries. 
 

 

Those rates are far above what most rich people in the US pay. Don't quote margin rates, quote percentage paid. Mitt Romney was famously expose during his presidential campaign as paying 14%, less than his secretary.

[Chomper Higgot]

51 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is law that anyone earning over £ 9000 per annum is enrolled in a work pension scheme, unless they are stupid enough to opt out.

A pitiful offering compared to the final salary pensions of 40 years ago.

 

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, novacova said:

Excessive taxation only leads to government squandering and impedes spending. Free market capitalism with limited taxation is what flourishes the economy, more businesses hire, pay higher income, more money cycles through the system, the government receives more money. Simple economics as opposed to shortcut quick fix playing the game of victimhooding & evil rich penalizing polarizing politics. The premise of taxation is government control, not anything to do with lifting the economy and benefiting those with less income. And the idea of restricting oil decimates the economy, everything costs more, everything, pure utter stupidity. Oil companies get richer? So freaking what, then everybody has more money. If anyone is bothered by this then great! Because it inspires a warm fuzzy mood.

ANd you know what percentage is excessive? Care to share that number with us. In the 50's and 60's taxation was much higher and the economy grew faster. When Bill Clinton raised taxes there were cries from right wingers how that was going to damage the economy. Instead there was rapid growth. 

What's more when taxes are too low, then there is excessive liquidity. We know there has been massive excessive liquidity because before Covid, the wealthy were actually agreeing to store their cash with banks at negative interest rates or buy govt. bonds at negative interest rates.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I read that as spending should be cut. Until you can find more revenue.

 

Foreign aid should be eliminated.  USA military should be on / in USA land / waters.

 

Energy companies should be nationalized, as those windfall profits belong to the citizens.  Socialism & capitalism can work together.

 

Pharmaceutical/healthcare/Medicare pay outs are just silly.  

I had an ECG/EKG here/TH ... $5.80 (฿200)

Philly, PA, USA, price ... $525-$1400

source

 

 

Not learned the lesson of where isolationism leads them.

[EVENKEEL]

I'm in favor of a flat tax. Everyone pays, say 15%. Everyone from the poorest to the richest pays the same %, no loopholes.

[Isaan sailor]

1 hour ago, Scott Tracy said:

Ooooh, socialism, controversial.

“Socialism works great—until you run out of other people’s money”

Margaret Thatcher

[youreavinalaff]

50 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A pitiful offering compared to the final salary pensions of 40 years ago.

 

 

Not really.

 

Anyway, your "40 years ago" is off by quite a few years 

Edited September 2, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[KhunLA]

52 minutes ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

yep....I live below poverty level and manage to have zero debt.......is also why I live here part time

I'm not at poverty level, but I also don't even need to file a tax return.  Too poor in the eyes of IRS.  

 

Debt free, with ridiculously low 'mandatory' monthly outflow:

... ~฿150 for water

... ฿27 conx fee to PEA (solar)

... feed ourselves & dog ฿10k

 

Other monthly expenses revolve around unnecessary transport cost.  Unnecessary, as everything needed is within walking or bicycle distance.

... car & scooter (EVs) ins, registration maintenance -฿2000

... home & phone internet/call service <฿1400

 

My pittance of a company pension covers that.

My Soc Sec is enough alone for Ret. Visa, if wanting, I could actually save all of that.   Though we do fail miserably trying to spend it.  Damn CCs.

 

Obviously took a few satang, to be mortgage/rent, car/scooter payment free.  Quick ROI, especially since banks don't give much of anything for saving.  So spend it, as worth more today than tomorrow, if saved.

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not learned the lesson of where isolationism leads them.

USA can feed & fuel itself.  Already a 'service industry' workforce.   Could easily convert to manufacturing again.  Just more profitable now to outsource it.

[Adumbration]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Most people don't earn enough to get ahead any more. It's not like it was in the west when we were in the workforce.

Very true.  I honestly don't know why the young in most western countries dont engage in mass civil disobedience.  The situation is now so ludicrous in Australia for example a couple both on 100K a year still cannot save enough to put a deposit on a house.  Birth rate is plummeting for obvious reasons and the government is just importing my immigrants to shore up the ponzi scheme.

 

When I was very young in Australia you could almost pay a mortgage on a cheap little house if you were on the dole (social security).

 

Now a young couple with 200K combined income cant even save a deposit.

 

Something has to snap soon....and not just in Australia.

[GypsyT]

I retired at 53 ????

 

Thank you America!

 

But never stopped making deals, sales and ideas are still coming and going and some are bringing little extra. But no stress.

[Isaan sailor]

The retirement I have now in Thailand is the same or better than the retirement I would have had in America.  The same until my American ex-wife divorced me.  That pushed my retirement to Thailand.  No regrets.