American man faces dilemma as Thai girlfriend’s parents demand 1 million baht dowry

[thecyclist]

8 hours ago, mberbae said:

The gentleman best forget this woman and her family.

The dowry is just the beginning. He will be paying for

every little " emergency " for the rest of his life.

The fact that the fiance is fine with this says it all.

I could not agree more. If she has real feelings for him, let alone loves him, she will not insist on the dowry .Refusing to pay up will be a test of her feelings. She ditches him ,it was all or mainly about the money. She stays she probably has at least some feelings for him. 40 years ago, when I first arrived in Thailand, it started with demands for a waterbuffalo, then a motorcycle, then a house....

Don't be  a Kwai yourself. 

[cncltd1973]

the old tradition of bride price runs parallel to parents selling their daughter to a man. if there wasn't a wedding ceremony, the transaction looks like human trafficking and some modern men would rather not get involved with that kind of mentality

[Isaan sailor]

How about at least one good picture of the bride—so we can help determine how much sinsod?

 

[SoilSpoil]

If a lady loves you, she will understand that sinsod is a cultural faux de pas. The argument that patents want to be sure that you can take care of the girl is an insult in my and many other cultures. Say no from the start, be firm and honest and if she insists you need to move on. She doesnt love you unconditionally. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, cedel said:

12 years ago, we talked about that with my thai gf at the time and yes, she told me it's only "to show", but if it would happen, the parents that were also middle-class did not need it and would return everything back...I think  return to their daughter...lol, but finally, 1 year later we broke up and I have never been married until now.

What happened to the sinsod money?  Or, you broke up pre-marriage before it ever came to that?

 

[Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, snoop1130 said:

 

An American man asked netizens for advice on what to do after his Thai girlfriend’s family demanded a million baht dowry, known as sinsod in Thailand. He said he loved her very much but was not a foolish farang.

 

The American shared his story on the social media platform Reddit yesterday, September 12. The man began by explaining that he was dating a Thai university student from a province in the Isaan region of Thailand. He expected that his girlfriend did not make much money from her career after graduation but her parents are middle class and own a shipping company.

 

The parents asked the foreign man to give them 1 million baht as a dowry, half of which would go to his fiancée after the wedding ceremony and the other half would be kept by the parents for safekeeping.

 

The American added that the amount was not negotiable whereas his girlfriend believed that the amount was reasonable because they had to show the dowry during the wedding ceremony.

 

The foreign man concluded his post by stating that he would be departing Thailand in two weeks and might not return, leading him to decide to end the relationship.

 

The post garnered over 300 comments from Reddit users. Some individuals online suggested that the dowry served as a form of security for the woman, as her parents might have been concerned that a foreigner would eventually abandon her. Others believed that the parents simply wanted to ensure that the man could provide for their daughter.

 

Some advised the man to end the relationship, as he might end up having to provide even more for the woman and her family in the future. However, the majority of netizens recommended that he should approach his girlfriend and her parents honestly, informing them that he would not pay the dowry, rather than leaving without any explanation.

 

By Petch Petpailin

Captioon: Photo by Ben Stephenson via Flickr

 

Full Story: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/american-man-faces-dilemma-as-thai-girlfriends-parents-demand-1-million-baht-dowry

 

-- The Thaiger 2023-09-13

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

 

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Run it won't stop there

[Walker88]

It's unlikely anyone of this Forum is unaware of sinsod, nor is anyone unaware of the concept of face.

 

We just have different opinions.

 

Desperate men will pay the dowry, then salve their ego by anointing themselves 'culturally sensitive' or chant "When in Rome...". They'll rationalize buying another human being by calling it 'tradition', or claiming it's an outward sign of devotion and commitment. They will allow themselves to be used by their in-laws, who will 'gain face' by selling off their daughter, ideally for a higher price than their neighbors sold off their daughter in the village pissing contest.

 

Men with self-respect won't pay, even if it's a trifling sum, because they want an equal partnership, not someone who holds a deed or who bought the first schtupping of someone's daughter. A man with self-respect will not engage in human trafficking, which sinsod is.

 

While Thailand has some lovely women, so does every other country, just as every country---Thailand included---has gold diggers and opportunists. Some here argue that we also buy our women in the West, but I disagree. Equality has put many women on equal financial footing as men. I happen to be wealthy, which comes with the curse of being suspicious of others' intentions. Fortunately, I dated women who are also wealthy, so none needed anything monetary from me. There are wealthy women in Thailand, too, but I suspect few would have any interest in a foreigner.

 

What that means for me is that I am unlikely to ever marry a Thai woman, as there is no way I would buy a life partner. I can accept that, while maintaining my principles. Even if I did marry, I owe her family nothing, because they did not raise her as a crop to sell at the local market or a cow to sell to a meat packer. They took care of her because they chose to bring her into the world and assumed a parental responsibility. If they want to judge me as suitable or not, they should base that on my character and how I treat her, not by how much I'm willing to pay to purchase her.

[anterian]

Normal convention these days is its just for show, impress the guests, afterwards its given back. 

He has just demonstrated to the family he can show a million. He needs to permanently show 800k just to live here. 

[bristolgeoff]

I see many comments on this subject a popular topic.Heard many stories good and bad about a marriage and anything else including money paid.I,am sure he has heard the stories and it is down to him,but 800k is enough for a retirement visa  and that maybe a better deal for both of them

[Doctorbu]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:43 AM, transam said:

 

[Paris333]

You cannot invoke equality between men and women and on the other hand ask for a dowry only for your daughter. Parental demand is racist!

[Ddbanksy]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:51 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Some do... some don't.. It all depends on the individuals involved...

 

My general sense is it's becoming a somewhat less common thing, particularly among younger, modern thinking Thais....

 

But even when sinsod DOES occur, it's very common lately for the family to put up the big money for show at the ceremony, and then take it back after everyone's gone home... As I said above, thus face is satisfied.

 

Agreed,my stepdaughter's had two marriages to Thais.

 No Dowry demanded,but given...then returned back the next day.

Btw... I'm from England,married and live in Isaan for 23yrs

[Bim Smith]

Run boy run. Been together 17 years and not a statang handed over. 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Drop the dead donkey said:

This post has received 12 pages of replies.

to be honest with you, it is just bait journalism.

Who cares about other people’s lives to this extent. 
I read the first page, and realise that the bait has been taken.

Oh I agree... a quick internet search and the same circumstance will come up posted, triggering the pro/anti-sinsod argument. Men asking the same question. 

[EVENKEEL]

I'll bet those of you who have daughters born in Thailand will have a different perspective on sinsod when it's time for their marriage. You might not but I seriously doubt the mothers will turn down a good pay day.

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 hours ago, Walker88 said:

No, I don't understand. It's a Thai-American marriage, but HE must be the only one culturally sensitive and understand women are chattel and must be purchased like a rug or used Toyota.

 

If it takes money to be 'an outward display of caring and devotion', then it ain't love.

 

An actual outward display of love and devotion is to be a faithful and devoted husband, not a family ATM.

 

I wouldn't expect you to understand.

In Thailand... he has come to Thailand... he is no longer in the USA

[Skipalongcassidy]

10 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

the old tradition of bride price runs parallel to parents selling their daughter to a man. if there wasn't a wedding ceremony, the transaction looks like human trafficking and some modern men would rather not get involved with that kind of mentality

The average American wedding, including all expenses such as the rings, ceremony and reception, comes in at a whopping $33,900! 

 

Same human trafficking???

[Venom]

He should talk to her parents, maybe he could make payments some like 100 baht a week or so. It's worth a try, if he really loves her. 

[quake]

Get married at the local amphur office, End of.

 

The rest is up to you, depending on,  how big a stupid buffalo you are.

Been to many weddings here, many have not paid sin-sod, just had money to show off on the day,  borrowed  from family members, including me. given back the next day.

 

Remember,  your not Thai, so you do not have to be part of the BS sin sod. not your culture !!!!!!!!!!!!

You will be reminded of these two point many times in your life here. when it suits them.

 

As for me , married,  no village stuff with monks  and all that BS

My misses knows what I think of the Buddhism racket here and 

families sticking money in the sky rocket.

 

Happy Buffalo Sin-sod. or is it just silly sod. 

 

[GinBoy2]

24 minutes ago, quake said:

Get married at the local amphur office, End of.

 

The rest is up to you, depending on,  how big a stupid buffalo you are.

Been to many weddings here, many have not paid sin-sod, just had money to show off on the day,  borrowed  from family members, including me. given back the next day.

 

Remember,  your not Thai, so you do not have to be part of the BS sin sod. not your culture !!!!!!!!!!!!

You will be reminded of these two point many times in your life here. when it suits them.

 

As for me , married,  no village stuff with monks  and all that BS

My misses knows what I think of the Buddhism racket here and 

families sticking money in the sky rocket.

 

Happy Buffalo Sin-sod. or is it just silly sod. 

 

It's a show, and to be honest most women, Thai or farang love weddings, and most of us actually quite like to indulge them in that.

 

As I said before my wife's parents long dead, so the money spread out was just for show, it was our money and it went straight back to the bank the next day.

 

But it was all part of the ritual, everyone there knew it was our money, no one to pay, but still the pictures were taken and everyone enjoyed it as part of the whole experience.

 

Weddings are a spectacle, and I had a great time. 

 

The actual signing a marriage certificate wouldn't have bothered us until years later when we wanted to get a green card for the US.

 

I can't even remember what actually happened when we went to the amphur to really get married, but I still remember very fondly our fun filled Thai village wedding, fake sinsod and all 

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

In Thailand... he has come to Thailand... he is no longer in the USA

So does he get citizenship? No.

 

He's still not Thai. In an equal marriage, both sides give in to bridge the cultural gap.

 

I appreciate you must have paid a lot to buy your wife and let her parents show off and make the other villagers jealous. Your choice.

 

Not for me.

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

The average American wedding, including all expenses such as the rings, ceremony and reception, comes in at a whopping $33,900! 

 

Same human trafficking???

Apples and oranges.

 

The cost of an average American wedding does not include a purchase price for the bride, it's just a party.

 

The parents of the bride did not raise her like a crop to be sold in the market nor a cow to be sent to the meat packer. They took care of her growing up because they are PARENTS and that responsibility is thrust upon them for choosing to bring a life into the world. If they raised her thinking 'Well, we'll get this back when we sell her off', then they are bad parents and bad human beings. Tradition is just an excuse.

[nausea]

Agree with the above (GinBoy2), speaking from my experience as a guest at a Thai wedding where a one millon baht dowry was very publicly announced; the Sin Sod is generally a part of Thai traditional marriage rites, and is a performative, rather than authentic, act.

[connda]

Started last Wednesday.  If he's a smart young lad, he'd be on the last leg of his flight between Taipei and a major US airport.  After which I suggest a vacation in Mexico.

[Misty]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, snoop1130 said:

 

An American man asked netizens for advice on what to do after his Thai girlfriend’s family demanded a million baht dowry, known as sinsod in Thailand. He said he loved her very much but was not a foolish farang.

 

The American shared his story on the social media platform Reddit yesterday, September 12. The man began by explaining that he was dating a Thai university student from a province in the Isaan region of Thailand. He expected that his girlfriend did not make much money from her career after graduation but her parents are middle class and own a shipping company.

 

The parents asked the foreign man to give them 1 million baht as a dowry, half of which would go to his fiancée after the wedding ceremony and the other half would be kept by the parents for safekeeping.

 

The American added that the amount was not negotiable whereas his girlfriend believed that the amount was reasonable because they had to show the dowry during the wedding ceremony.

 

The foreign man concluded his post by stating that he would be departing Thailand in two weeks and might not return, leading him to decide to end the relationship.

 

The post garnered over 300 comments from Reddit users. Some individuals online suggested that the dowry served as a form of security for the woman, as her parents might have been concerned that a foreigner would eventually abandon her. Others believed that the parents simply wanted to ensure that the man could provide for their daughter.

 

Some advised the man to end the relationship, as he might end up having to provide even more for the woman and her family in the future. However, the majority of netizens recommended that he should approach his girlfriend and her parents honestly, informing them that he would not pay the dowry, rather than leaving without any explanation.

 

By Petch Petpailin

Captioon: Photo by Ben Stephenson via Flickr

 

Full Story: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/american-man-faces-dilemma-as-thai-girlfriends-parents-demand-1-million-baht-dowry

 

-- The Thaiger 2023-09-13

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

 

Get our Daily Newsletter - Click HERE to subscribe

Since the man is being asked to pay the bride's family, the article is actually discussing a "bride price," not a "dowry."

 

Dowry = property or money brought by a bride to her husband on their marriage  https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dowry+meaning

Bride Price = a sum of money or quantity of goods given to a bride's family by that of the groom.   https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-51264574

[Skipalongcassidy]

50 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

So does he get citizenship? No.

 

He's still not Thai. In an equal marriage, both sides give in to bridge the cultural gap.

 

I appreciate you must have paid a lot to buy your wife and let her parents show off and make the other villagers jealous. Your choice.

 

Not for me.

This is not about citizenship... it is about moving to a foreign country and objecting to their culture... hopefully he is on a plane back to the USA and will reconsider his maturity level in accepting that the rest of the world does not march to his distant drummer... 

 

 

[crazykopite]

Don’t get married just live together and if that is not allowed then wave goodbye and let’s be honest Thai Universities are of the standard of a high school in the Western World  the majority of children from Thai elitest go to schools in the Western world . My own opinion would be to say thanks but no thanks there are many multi national ladies around the globe if that’s the type of woman you want 

[crazykopite]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

It's a show, and to be honest most women, Thai or farang love weddings, and most of us actually quite like to indulge them in that.

 

As I said before my wife's parents long dead, so the money spread out was just for show, it was our money and it went straight back to the bank the next day.

 

But it was all part of the ritual, everyone there knew it was our money, no one to pay, but still the pictures were taken and everyone enjoyed it as part of the whole experience.

 

Weddings are a spectacle, and I had a great time. 

 

The actual signing a marriage certificate wouldn't have bothered us until years later when we wanted to get a green card for the US.

 

I can't even remember what actually happened when we went to the amphur to really get married, but I still remember very fondly our fun filled Thai village wedding, fake sinsod and all 

I went to a friends Thai wedding I was the equivalent of being best man  he was German his parents flew in bringing a pretty valuable amount of gold jewellery which was given to the parents of tge bride unfortunately a year later the marriage came to an end and the groom returned back to his homeland empty handed not a piece of jewellery insight he told me prior to his mother giving it towards sinsod it had been valued at more than 100,000 baht by the way she was not a bar or massage girl 

[Skipalongcassidy]

46 minutes ago, Misty said:

Since the man is being asked to pay the bride's family, the article is actually discussing a "bride price," not a "dowry."

 

Dowry = property or money brought by a bride to her husband on their marriage  https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dowry+meaning

Bride Price = a sum of money or quantity of goods given to a bride's family by that of the groom.   https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-51264574

You did not read or comprehend the article... "The parents asked the foreign man to give them 1 million baht as a dowry, half of which would go to his fiancée after the wedding ceremony and the other half would be kept by the parents for safekeeping"

[NextG]

1 minute ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

You did not read or comprehend the article... "The parents asked the foreign man to give them 1 million baht as a dowry, half of which would go to his fiancée after the wedding ceremony and the other half would be kept by the parents for safekeeping"

?? What did he get wrong?