2 hours ago, Morch said:

Some were driven out, some were encouraged by own leaders to do, many did what people do in such situations and ran away.

 

Each and every one of these topics degrades into bickering over historical details (presented from hyper partisan points of view), as if 'winning' some point or 'proving' something would change anything. Life doesn't work this way.

 

At present, it doesn't matter all that much. Of interest, yes. But it's not like either side will realize his mistakes, hang collective head in shame, and fold. 

 

 

Well, not according to Hanaguma, whose post I was replying to.

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Don't know that I'd be holding up Churchill or his ilk right now. 

 

Today's conflict can be tied directly to their duplicitous dealing in the Middle East to "save Britain".  Both World Wars.  The world's been paying for their colonial duplicity for over a century.

Expand  

Britain was fighting to save the World from Nazi domination, that was rather more important than the Palestinian issue 

What did the Nazis have to do with the Balfour Declaration of 1917?

 

But again, that's another topic for another thread.

46 minutes ago, transam said:

Waaaaaaaaaaaay off-topic, start your own anti-Brit thread.................????

Sorry transam, history shows Winston sold the occupants of Palestine down the river to appease the Zionist movement. Terrorism has been enacted by both the Israeli and Arab civilian populations since the inception of the State of Israel.

1 minute ago, Paul Catton said:

Sorry transam, history shows Winston sold the occupants of Palestine down the river to appease the Zionist movement. Terrorism has been enacted by both the Israeli and Arab civilian populations since the inception of the State of Israel.

Go read the thread title, or go start your own thread......????

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And there are ‘Lefties’ here doing nothing of the sort.

 

 

 

We all see it.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/08/cheerleaders-for-hamas/

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree. If they go too far in Gaza, it will become too difficult for western governments ( other than the US ) to pretend the Israelis are the good guys. Boycotts to follow.

Israel have already stated that they will wipe out the Hamas Government and military in Gaza and hundred of Hamas locations got attacked on day 1

   No Country has suggested Israel restrain its retaliation 

The people and Countries that would boycott Israel, they already boycott Israel and have done so for years 

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Go read the thread title, or go start your own thread......????

Israel and the Palestinians have been on a war footing with the since the inception of the State of Israel. Saturdays actions was another leaf in the book, who knows how this chapter will end though.  

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

We all see it.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/08/cheerleaders-for-hamas/

 

 

 

 

I guess ‘lefties’ critical of Hamas and supportive of Israeli right to defense/respond to the Hamas attack with force in this thread doesn’t fit your agenda so you drag up some  Koch funded rightwing propaganda.

 

Spiked!

 

For goodness sake Jonny, did you imagine your ‘Spiked’ nonsense was addressing comments by anyone in this thread?

 

Or was it just random anti left stuff you had to hand?

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

I guess ‘lefties’ critical of Hamas and supportive of Israeli right to defense/respond to the Hamas attack with force in this thread doesn’t fit your agenda so you drag up some  Koch funded rightwing propaganda.

 

Spiked!

 

For goodness sake Jonny, did you imagine your ‘Spiked’ nonsense was addressing comments by anyone in this thread?

 

Or was it just random anti left stuff you had to hand?

It's a very relevant article which addresses the anti-semitism and despisal of Israel by Western Woke leftists. It is very much evident on this thread and others on the forum. Sorry if you didn't like the content, but the truth hurts sometimes.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/08/cheerleaders-for-hamas/

 

Just now, JonnyF said:

It's a very relevant article which addresses the anti-semitism and despisal of Israel by Western Woke leftists. It is very much evident on this thread and others on the forum. Sorry if you didn't like the content, but the truth hurts sometimes.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/08/cheerleaders-for-hamas/

 

You should send it to the forum administrators and ask for them to open a tread on the subject.

 

Though ‘Spiked’ might not make the ‘reliable news source’ grade.

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

I guess ‘lefties’ critical of Hamas and supportive of Israeli right to defense/respond to the Hamas attack with force in this thread doesn’t fit your agenda so you drag up some  Koch funded rightwing propaganda.

 

Spiked!

 

For goodness sake Jonny, did you imagine your ‘Spiked’ nonsense was addressing comments by anyone in this thread?

 

Or was it just random anti left stuff you had to hand?

Well I hope that nobody is suggesting that ALL leftists are hypocrites about Israel. Many are. Many aren't. I think it's wise to take each issue that comes up separately and judge on its specifics.

An example of the many are situation.

A while back at at least one gay pride parade a Jewish gay group was banned from participating because of their display of Stars of David. Not the Israeli flag. Just Stars of David.

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's a very relevant article which addresses the anti-semitism and despisal of Israel by Western Woke leftists. It is very much evident on this thread and others on the forum. Sorry if you didn't like the content, but the truth hurts sometimes.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/08/cheerleaders-for-hamas/

 

Seriously now antisemitism comes from many sides. The left, the right, and Islamist.

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree. If they go too far in Gaza, it will become too difficult for western governments ( other than the US ) to pretend the Israelis are the good guys. Boycotts to follow.

250+ shot in cold blood at a music festival; filmed and published.

 

10 youths shot in a shelter in cold blood; filmed and published.

 

Dozens of hostages seized and paraded into Gaza; filmed and published.

 

The body of a young woman stripped and abused in the streets of Gaza; filmed and published.

 

Amongst the victims (dead and hostages); Europeans, Britons, Americans, Thais and Filipinos.

 

I don't think there will be boycotts, other than the usual suspects, particularly from the Western, North American and South East Asian nations.

 

Israel really would have to "go some" to dispell public support!

 

 

This from the Wall St Journal

 

Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas’s Saturday surprise attack on Israel and gave the green light for the assault at a meeting in Beirut last Monday, according to senior members of Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iran-backed militant group.

Officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions—the most significant breach of Israel’s borders since the 1973 Yom Kippur War—those people said.

Details of the operation were refined during several meetings in Beirut attended by IRGC officers and representatives of four Iran-backed militant groups, including Hamas, which holds power in Gaza, and Hezbollah, a Shiite militant group and political faction in Lebanon, they said.

https://archive.ph/XcaAJ

 

Not a surprise to some of us.

2 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

250+ shot in cold blood at a music festival; filmed and published.

 

10 youths shot in a shelter in cold blood; filmed and published.

 

Dozens of hostages seized and paraded into Gaza; filmed and published.

 

The body of a young woman stripped and abused in the streets of Gaza; filmed and published.

 

Amongst the victims (dead and hostages); Europeans, Britons, Americans, Thais and Filipinos.

 

I don't think there will be boycotts, other than the usual suspects, particularly from the Western, North American and South East Asian nations.

 

 

Yes we know all about that, but there are 2 million in Gaza that DIDN'T do any of that. Do they all deserve to be murdered by bombs?

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You should send it to the forum administrators and ask for them to open a tread on the subject.

 

Though ‘Spiked’ might not make the ‘reliable news source’ grade.

There is already a "tread" on it.

 

This one. 

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes we know all about that, but there are 2 million in Gaza that DIDN'T do any of that. Do they all deserve to be murdered by bombs?

The attackers went back to Gaza with their hostages , the attackers are in Gaza now 

An excellent interview with Nathan Thrall about the uprising. He doesn't address this issue, but my take on the political future is that this situation will benefit the extreme right if the current govt falls. Which might give an incentive for those to the left of Netanyahu to remain in a coalition govt rather than face new elections.

https://archive.ph/9BCY5

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/could-the-attack-on-israel-spell-the-end-of-hamas

 

He does predict the utter destruction of Hamas.

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you taking the mickey? You think that after the way Israel has treated them for decades they are going to start being friends with them? Never going to happen IMO.

The Irish hated the English for hundreds of years, so that could happen here too, if nothing changes.

The way that Israel has treated them, really? The way Israel is treating them is containment, containing an enemy that will accept nothing less than complete extermination of the Jewish people. If I was surrounded by hateful neighbors I’d do anything to maintain preservation. Pelt my house with rocks, I’ll drop a bolder on theirs, retaliate me with 9mm’s, I’ll pull out the Scar17-s and clean house. Israel, in my opinion has shown great restraint, now they’re fed up with the tit for tat routine and it’s time to drop the hammer for their own survival and civilization. Anyway, you and others here come off as rooting for the Hamas terror thugs…with antisemitism tones.

Some posts and replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.  

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes we know all about that, but there are 2 million in Gaza that DIDN'T do any of that. Do they all deserve to be murdered by bombs?

Of course they don't and they won't be either.

Israel will be going after everything Hamas.

Sadly it will be impossible to avoid civilian casualties.

But the ridiculous hyperbole that Israel intends to flatten Gaza is simply idiotic.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmm. Do you actually think Hamas erected the wall around Gaza and is manning the checkpoints stopping them leaving?

This is just a conflation of semantic word gaming. Get off it already, we all know where you stand…

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes we know all about that, but there are 2 million in Gaza that DIDN'T do any of that. Do they all deserve to be murdered by bombs?

It is incredibly naive, no, utter hyperbole, to suggest that Israel has any intention of murdering 2 million people in Gaza. Their stated intention is to destroy Hamas as a government (elected in 2006 and now in the 17th year of their 4 year term!), and in particular the ability to wage war on Israel, and to carry out the sort of large scale murderous attacks which they have in the last 72 hours.

 

This will inevitably lead to casualties amongst civilians, because Hamas hides behind and amongst the civil population, uses hospitals and schools to hide it's weapons and as launch sites for it's rockets. To that we can now add a hundred or more hostages. Such casualties will be terrible, and add to the misery of the Gaza people, misery already hugely exacerbated by Hamas's savage rule.

 

Recognise that Hamas's charter incorporates a clause committing them to the utter destruction of the State of Israel, and one (article 7 if I am correct, although I may be wrong in the numbers) which commits them to the slaughter of the Jewish population - some 9 million.

 

Taking those practices, their domestic human rights abuses, their clear commitment to genocide, and the atrocities of the last 72 hours, to casually dismiss those atrocities with "yes we know all about that" amounts to determined apologism for that appalling slaughter.

 

I said on Sunday morning, at the beginning of this thread, what I thought of you and your views. I absolutely stand by that statement.

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Of course they don't and they won't be either.

Israel will be going after everything Hamas.

Sadly it will be impossible to avoid civilian casualties.

But the ridiculous hyperbole that Israel intends to flatten Gaza is simply idiotic.

 

It’s not simply the hyperbole nonsense that ‘Israel intends to flatten Gaza’, there are numerous posts calling for that, and the mass killing of Palestinians, in some cases referred to as ‘animals’.

 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes we know all about that, but there are 2 million in Gaza that DIDN'T do any of that. Do they all deserve to be murdered by bombs?

There are millions in Israel also and 5000 + missiles have been launched at it indiscriminately with no care where they land or who they kill  ???? 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not simply the hyperbole nonsense that ‘Israel intends to flatten Gaza’, there are numerous posts calling for that, and the mass killing of Palestinians, in some cases referred to as ‘animals’.

 

 

 

 

Come on man!

Do you actually think the Israeli government now at war with Hamas and justifiably so has any intention at all of murdering everyone in Gaza? 

If so, that is just stupid.

 

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Come on man!

Do you actually think the Israeli government now at war with Hamas and justifiably so has any intention at all of murdering everyone in Gaza? 

If so, that is just stupid.

 

No I don’t 

 

But there are a number of posts in this thread calling for that.

 

I’m pointing out the hate driven absurdity.

 

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

We all see it.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/08/cheerleaders-for-hamas/

 

 

 

Its that shock and awe  of seeing the headless bodies of Israeli soldiers laying there on the ground that makes me want to hate anybody who supports Hamas! 
 

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I don’t 

 

But there are a number of posts in this thread calling for that.

 

I’m pointing out the hate driven absurdity.

 

 

So what? There is caca posting all over the internet of all flavors. That doesn't reflect the policies of any government. 

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

This from the Wall St Journal

 

Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas’s Saturday surprise attack on Israel and gave the green light for the assault at a meeting in Beirut last Monday, according to senior members of Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iran-backed militant group.

Officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions—the most significant breach of Israel’s borders since the 1973 Yom Kippur War—those people said.

Details of the operation were refined during several meetings in Beirut attended by IRGC officers and representatives of four Iran-backed militant groups, including Hamas, which holds power in Gaza, and Hezbollah, a Shiite militant group and political faction in Lebanon, they said.

https://archive.ph/XcaAJ

 

Not a surprise to some of us.

“We thank the Islamic Republic of Iran who provided us with weapons, money and other equipment! He gave us missiles to destroy Zionist fortresses, and helped us with standard anti-tank missiles!”

 

https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/1711217525533659285