9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Then how was that Israel was still shooting kids on Gaza land and stealing land with the illegal settlements?

 

Anyway, here it is from the horse's mouth.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-keep-security-control-in-gaza-indefinitely-after-war-netanyahu-says/

 

There were no Israeli settlements left in the Gaza Strip since 2005 when Israel carried out its unilateral disengagement plan. What you are referring to is the West Bank.

 

The Palestinians had a choice, had a chance to show things could be different - they took the usual path. In some ways, this played into Israel's right wing's hands, supporting the notion that the other side couldn't be reasoned with, made agreements with - not a partner for peace.

 

Already gave my opinion about the 'horse' and his statements.

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

There were no Israeli settlements left in the Gaza Strip since 2005 when Israel carried out its unilateral disengagement plan. What you are referring to is the West Bank.

 

The Palestinians had a choice, had a chance to show things could be different - they took the usual path. In some ways, this played into Israel's right wing's hands, supporting the notion that the other side couldn't be reasoned with, made agreements with - not a partner for peace.

 

Already gave my opinion about the 'horse' and his statements.

 

Well, they were correct, Israeli couldn't be reasoned with.  That's not a sentiment that they shouldn't be reasoned with but an acknowledgement of the reality. History has shown that Israel was never interested in a two state solution on UN agreed terms.

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Well, they were correct, Israeli couldn't be reasoned with.  That's not a sentiment that they shouldn't be reasoned with but an acknowledgement of the reality. History has shown that Israel was never interested in a two state solution on UN agreed terms.

 

Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip. The Hamas could have made it into an example of what a Palestinian state would look like. They chose terrorism, violence and rejectionism. You can spin that which ever way you like, but the choice was taken by them - not by Israel. Considering the Hamas Charter, maybe not surprising.

 

As for your other claim - there were several Israeli governments who made efforts toward a two-state solution, so the 'never' is incorrect. That these efforts were, ultimately unsuccessful, is the result of multiple issues - some relating to Israel and some to the Palestinian side. Not really what the topic is about though.

Any recent reports on the fate of the Hostages, Israeli civilians kidnapped by the homicidal lunatics of Hamas? I pray they arent doing their traditional thing of raping the women before shooting them, or tossing babies in ovens...those poor innocent civilians who are the victims of undeniable war crimes havent been mentioned recently.

 

Im upset with the US giovernment for not doing more. We should be flying more sorties, theri are plenty of scumbags to drop bombs on.

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

Any recent reports on the fate of the Hostages, Israeli civilians kidnapped by the homicidal lunatics of Hamas? I pray they arent doing their traditional thing of raping the women before shooting them, or tossing babies in ovens...those poor innocent civilians who are the victims of undeniable war crimes havent been mentioned recently.

 

Im upset with the US giovernment for not doing more. We should be flying more sorties, theri are plenty of scumbags to drop bombs on.

 

There are reports of a swap deal in the works - but these vary with regard to how many will be released (none that I'm aware of says all, figures range from 10 to 80). I'm not sure in exchange for what, though. So far no information on condition of the hostages, so could very well be that some aren't alive anymore. An extra factor being that some were taken by another outfit, the Islamic Jihad. I'm not sure Hamas got that much leverage on them even on a good day. Then there were also (apparently) some hostages taken to Gaza by non-aligned Gazans (the word out was that Hamas will pay generously for hostages brought in). Not hard to imagine some of these people being 'misplaced', forgotten (if captors got killed before transferring them to Hamas) or still held by the same people. It's a mess.

 

USA flying bombing sorties would mean complicated coordination with Israeli troops, with higher chances of friendly fire incidents - and so far seems like the IAF is doing what's possible (don't think the Navy got something significantly heavier and/or efficient to add). The drone ops are quite good if intel is shared. Further, USA direct involvement in the bombing would make diplomatic efforts (both on the hostages issue, and the day after) much more complicated. I bet it's frustrating for the air crews on them carriers.

 

The USA's main military roll in this is to keep things from going regional. So far doing a good job as far as this goes.

IDF: We supplied 300 liters of fuel to Shifa, Hamas barred hospital from getting it

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-we-supplied-300-liters-of-fuel-to-shifa-hamas-barred-hospital-from-getting-it/

 

Sounds like Hamas values dead patients...

 

 

This will be my last comment on this board for a while longer.

 

Anyone who can't see war crimes on both sides is a blind, racist bigot.

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

This will be my last comment on this board for a while longer.

 

Anyone who can't see war crimes on both sides is a blind, racist bigot.

Bye. Goosestep off into the sunset.....

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

This will be my last comment on this board for a while longer.

 

Anyone who can't see war crimes on both sides is a blind, racist bigot.

Bye, don't tease us now.........lol

"Our troops risked their lives to hand-deliver 300 liters of fuel to the Shifa hospital for urgent medical purposes.

Hamas forbade the hospital from taking it. 

Gaza’s Hamas-run health ministry has been warning for weeks that its hospitals are running out of fuel. If so, why would they prevent the hospital from receiving it?"

 

 

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

"Our troops risked their lives to hand-deliver 300 liters of fuel to the Shifa hospital for urgent medical purposes.

Hamas forbade the hospital from taking it. 

Gaza’s Hamas-run health ministry has been warning for weeks that its hospitals are running out of fuel. If so, why would they prevent the hospital from receiving it?"

 

 

Dead Palestinian babies are worth to Hamas and their Iranian puppetmasters than live ones.

Up to date round up of all the latest events including at Shifa hospital

 

Hamas terrorists are 'losing their grip' on Gaza amid Israeli onslaught, IDF spokesman claims

'We've dismantled more than 15 company-size and battalion-size Hamas strongholds.' 'Our assessment is that their command functions and their ability to effectively conduct military operations and control the population simultaneously, is challenged,' he said.

'And their ability to do so is limited – they're not totally vanquished. They still have some control and influence, but it is far from what they would like and a big difference from what there was a month ago.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12740547/Hamas-terrorists-losing-grip-Gaza-amid-Israeli-onslaught-IDF-spokesman-claims.html

 

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Our troops risked their lives to hand-deliver 300 liters of fuel to the Shifa hospital for urgent medical purposes.

Hamas forbade the hospital from taking it. 

Gaza’s Hamas-run health ministry has been warning for weeks that its hospitals are running out of fuel. If so, why would they prevent the hospital from receiving it?"

 

 

 

Propaganda’: Al-Shifa director refutes Israeli fuel claims

 

Muhammad Abu Salmiya says Israeli claims that the hospital refused fuel are “propaganda”.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Abu Salmiya said: “Israeli officials reached out to me twice about providing the hospital with fuel: once to offer 2,000 litres [440 gallons] and then another to offer 300 litres [80 gallons]. Keep in mind the hospital needs from 8,000 [2,113 gallons] to 12,000 litres [3,170 gallons] per day.

“The same person called me at 2am and said the 300 litres can be picked up from a specific spot that is dangerous and susceptible to shelling. I told him to send it or a larger quantity so we can operate a generator via the Red Cross.

“Israel wants to show the world that it is not killing babies. It wants to whitewash its image with 300 litres of fuel, which barely last 30 minutes,” Abu Salmiya said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier said Israel had offered fuel to Al-Shifa, which suspended life-saving operations after running out.

Netanyahu was asked in an interview if Israel has a plan to get fuel into Gaza to power hospitals. “We just offered Shifa hospital the fuel, they refused it,” Netanyahu said.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

 

Hamas denies refusing fuel from Israel for Al-Shifa

 

Hamas denied it refused 300 litres (80 gallons) of fuel from Israel intended for medical use at the besieged Al-Shifa Hospital.

“The offer belittles the pain and suffering of the patients who are trapped inside without water, food, or electricity. This quantity is not enough to operate hospital generators for more than 30 minutes,” Hamas said in a statement.

Hamas is not associated with Al-Shifa Hospital management, “nor is [Hamas] part of its decision-making structures”, it said.

“[The hospital] is completely subject to the authority of the Palestinian health ministry.”

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

2 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

 

 

 

 

Propaganda’: Al-Shifa director refutes Israeli fuel claims

 

Muhammad Abu Salmiya says Israeli claims that the hospital refused fuel are “propaganda”.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Abu Salmiya said: “Israeli officials reached out to me twice about providing the hospital with fuel: once to offer 2,000 litres [440 gallons] and then another to offer 300 litres [80 gallons]. Keep in mind the hospital needs from 8,000 [2,113 gallons] to 12,000 litres [3,170 gallons] per day.

“The same person called me at 2am and said the 300 litres can be picked up from a specific spot that is dangerous and susceptible to shelling. I told him to send it or a larger quantity so we can operate a generator via the Red Cross.

“Israel wants to show the world that it is not killing babies. It wants to whitewash its image with 300 litres of fuel, which barely last 30 minutes,” Abu Salmiya said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier said Israel had offered fuel to Al-Shifa, which suspended life-saving operations after running out.

Netanyahu was asked in an interview if Israel has a plan to get fuel into Gaza to power hospitals. “We just offered Shifa hospital the fuel, they refused it,” Netanyahu said.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

 

Hamas denies refusing fuel from Israel for Al-Shifa

 

Hamas denied it refused 300 litres (80 gallons) of fuel from Israel intended for medical use at the besieged Al-Shifa Hospital.

“The offer belittles the pain and suffering of the patients who are trapped inside without water, food, or electricity. This quantity is not enough to operate hospital generators for more than 30 minutes,” Hamas said in a statement.

Hamas is not associated with Al-Shifa Hospital management, “nor is [Hamas] part of its decision-making structures”, it said.

“[The hospital] is completely subject to the authority of the Palestinian health ministry.”

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

The "Palestinian Authority" should tell Hamas to surrender. That will end the suffering of civilians being used as pawns by the murderous Iranians and their homicidal, raping, hate ridden proxy, Hamas.

19 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

 

 

 

 

Propaganda’: Al-Shifa director refutes Israeli fuel claims

 

Muhammad Abu Salmiya says Israeli claims that the hospital refused fuel are “propaganda”.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Abu Salmiya said: “Israeli officials reached out to me twice about providing the hospital with fuel: once to offer 2,000 litres [440 gallons] and then another to offer 300 litres [80 gallons]. Keep in mind the hospital needs from 8,000 [2,113 gallons] to 12,000 litres [3,170 gallons] per day.

“The same person called me at 2am and said the 300 litres can be picked up from a specific spot that is dangerous and susceptible to shelling. I told him to send it or a larger quantity so we can operate a generator via the Red Cross.

“Israel wants to show the world that it is not killing babies. It wants to whitewash its image with 300 litres of fuel, which barely last 30 minutes,” Abu Salmiya said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier said Israel had offered fuel to Al-Shifa, which suspended life-saving operations after running out.

Netanyahu was asked in an interview if Israel has a plan to get fuel into Gaza to power hospitals. “We just offered Shifa hospital the fuel, they refused it,” Netanyahu said.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

 

Hamas denies refusing fuel from Israel for Al-Shifa

 

Hamas denied it refused 300 litres (80 gallons) of fuel from Israel intended for medical use at the besieged Al-Shifa Hospital.

“The offer belittles the pain and suffering of the patients who are trapped inside without water, food, or electricity. This quantity is not enough to operate hospital generators for more than 30 minutes,” Hamas said in a statement.

Hamas is not associated with Al-Shifa Hospital management, “nor is [Hamas] part of its decision-making structures”, it said.

“[The hospital] is completely subject to the authority of the Palestinian health ministry.”

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

"Hamas denies" from Al Jizz. 🤣

"Who are Israeli settlers, and why do they live on Palestinian lands? "

"More than 700,000 settlers – 10 percent of Israel’s nearly 7 million population – now live in 150 settlements and 128 outposts dotting the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

A settlement is authorised by the Israeli government while an outpost is built without government authorisation. Outposts can range from a small shanty of a few people to a community of up to 400 people.

Some of the settlers move to the occupied territories for religious reasons while others are drawn by a relatively lower cost of living and financial incentives offered by the government. Ultraorthodox Jews form one-third of all settlers."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/who-are-israeli-settlers-and-why-do-they-live-on-palestinian-lands

 

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

"Who are Israeli settlers, and why do they live on Palestinian lands? "

"More than 700,000 settlers – 10 percent of Israel’s nearly 7 million population – now live in 150 settlements and 128 outposts dotting the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

A settlement is authorised by the Israeli government while an outpost is built without government authorisation. Outposts can range from a small shanty of a few people to a community of up to 400 people.

Some of the settlers move to the occupied territories for religious reasons while others are drawn by a relatively lower cost of living and financial incentives offered by the government. Ultraorthodox Jews form one-third of all settlers."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/who-are-israeli-settlers-and-why-do-they-live-on-palestinian-lands

 

Well that certainly justifies raping and killing women after burning their babies alive. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Well that certainly justifies raping and killing women after burning their babies alive. 

 

 

Don't forget kicking their little doggies.

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Don't forget kicking their little doggies.

Hamas are reporting that the Israelis have unleashed a pride of lions on the streets of Gaza especially to eat children.☹️

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Hamas are reporting that the Israelis have unleashed a pride of lions on the streets of Gaza especially to eat children.☹️

link please

2 hours ago, Paul Catton said:

 

 

 

 

Propaganda’: Al-Shifa director refutes Israeli fuel claims

 

Muhammad Abu Salmiya says Israeli claims that the hospital refused fuel are “propaganda”.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Abu Salmiya said: “Israeli officials reached out to me twice about providing the hospital with fuel: once to offer 2,000 litres [440 gallons] and then another to offer 300 litres [80 gallons]. Keep in mind the hospital needs from 8,000 [2,113 gallons] to 12,000 litres [3,170 gallons] per day.

“The same person called me at 2am and said the 300 litres can be picked up from a specific spot that is dangerous and susceptible to shelling. I told him to send it or a larger quantity so we can operate a generator via the Red Cross.

“Israel wants to show the world that it is not killing babies. It wants to whitewash its image with 300 litres of fuel, which barely last 30 minutes,” Abu Salmiya said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier said Israel had offered fuel to Al-Shifa, which suspended life-saving operations after running out.

Netanyahu was asked in an interview if Israel has a plan to get fuel into Gaza to power hospitals. “We just offered Shifa hospital the fuel, they refused it,” Netanyahu said.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

 

Hamas denies refusing fuel from Israel for Al-Shifa

 

Hamas denied it refused 300 litres (80 gallons) of fuel from Israel intended for medical use at the besieged Al-Shifa Hospital.

“The offer belittles the pain and suffering of the patients who are trapped inside without water, food, or electricity. This quantity is not enough to operate hospital generators for more than 30 minutes,” Hamas said in a statement.

Hamas is not associated with Al-Shifa Hospital management, “nor is [Hamas] part of its decision-making structures”, it said.

“[The hospital] is completely subject to the authority of the Palestinian health ministry.”

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

Disregarding the standing question of AJ's credibility, and/or airing Hamas propaganda -

 

Where does a doctor's first commitment lie? With playing PR games on behalf of Hamas, or is it about saving lives trusted to his care. I think this guy showed pretty clearly what he's about. No doubt, post-war he'll give a teary eyed interview about being coerced or something.

 

To put this in perspective - by the same rationale, Israel should have refused to accept the few hostages released by Hamas, for reasons of them being a PR stunt (which they were). Israel chose differently.

 

As for the good doctor's nonsense - if Hamas stays underground it means they have fuel. If Hamas launches rockets, it means they have fuel.

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

This will be my last comment on this board for a while longer.

 

Scouts honour ?

2 hours ago, Paul Catton said:

 

 

 

 

Propaganda’: Al-Shifa director refutes Israeli fuel claims

 

Muhammad Abu Salmiya says Israeli claims that the hospital refused fuel are “propaganda”.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Abu Salmiya said: “Israeli officials reached out to me twice about providing the hospital with fuel: once to offer 2,000 litres [440 gallons] and then another to offer 300 litres [80 gallons]. Keep in mind the hospital needs from 8,000 [2,113 gallons] to 12,000 litres [3,170 gallons] per day.

“The same person called me at 2am and said the 300 litres can be picked up from a specific spot that is dangerous and susceptible to shelling. I told him to send it or a larger quantity so we can operate a generator via the Red Cross.

“Israel wants to show the world that it is not killing babies. It wants to whitewash its image with 300 litres of fuel, which barely last 30 minutes,” Abu Salmiya said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier said Israel had offered fuel to Al-Shifa, which suspended life-saving operations after running out.

Netanyahu was asked in an interview if Israel has a plan to get fuel into Gaza to power hospitals. “We just offered Shifa hospital the fuel, they refused it,” Netanyahu said.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

 

Hamas denies refusing fuel from Israel for Al-Shifa

 

Hamas denied it refused 300 litres (80 gallons) of fuel from Israel intended for medical use at the besieged Al-Shifa Hospital.

“The offer belittles the pain and suffering of the patients who are trapped inside without water, food, or electricity. This quantity is not enough to operate hospital generators for more than 30 minutes,” Hamas said in a statement.

Hamas is not associated with Al-Shifa Hospital management, “nor is [Hamas] part of its decision-making structures”, it said.

“[The hospital] is completely subject to the authority of the Palestinian health ministry.”

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/12/israel-gaza-war-live-israeli-army-surrounding-al-quds-hospital

 

 

From that most reliable of impartial sources, Al Jazeera; another propaganda stunt by Hamas, once again trying to attach some validity to it by feeding it through their publicists in Qatar. Must try harder Paul, everyone has seen through Al Jazeera now by now.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

From that most reliable of impartial sources, Al Jazeera; another propaganda stunt by Hamas, once again trying to attach some validity to it by feeding it through their publicists in Qatar. Must try harder Paul, everyone has seen through Al Jazeera now by now.

 

 

Your opinion, noted.

Everyone certainly doesn't agree.

Some, perhaps many, maybe even a majority might be in agreeance.

Believe whatever propaganda source you wish to absorb.

 

My choice of news reporting is with journalists that are actually on the ground there amongst the fray.

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Yagoda said:

The "Palestinian Authority" should tell Hamas to surrender. That will end the suffering of civilians being used as pawns by the murderous Iranians and their homicidal, raping, hate ridden proxy, Hamas.

 

The PA doesn't have much traction with the Hamas, no authority over it and no way to enforce such. Considering Palestinian public opinion, such a call would probably result in a surge of public support for Hamas, or at the very least further erosion of support for the PA.

8 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

Your opinion, noted.

Everyone certainly doesn't agree.

Some, perhaps many, maybe even a majority might be in agreeance.

Believe whatever propaganda source you wish to absorb.

 

My choice of news reporting is with journalists that are actually on the ground there amongst the fray.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Being 'on the ground' does not imply impartial reporting, quite the opposite if anything - or do you imagine AJ could do an anti-Hamas piece while operating in Hamas controlled Gaza?

 

As for the PR angle - it doesn't really matter much. Call it a PR stunt by Israel, call it a PR stunt by Hamas - whatever. The bottom line is that lives could have been saved (yes, some, not all) and a certain choice was taken.

 

I expect that had Israel refused to accept the release of the four hostages, AJ would be all over it, and you copy pasting it here.

33 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

Your opinion, noted.

Everyone certainly doesn't agree.

Some, perhaps many, maybe even a majority might be in agreeance.

Believe whatever propaganda source you wish to absorb.

 

My choice of news reporting is with journalists that are actually on the ground there amongst the fray.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes noted your previous sources that you prefer from Russia as well

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

This will be my last comment on this board for a while longer.

 

Anyone who can't see war crimes on both sides is a blind, racist bigot.

How sad it is, Morsh and his Merry men have not once admitted Israel have done anything wrong, while all around the world people are agreeing that Ethnic cleansing and war crimes are being committed.  

So sad that impartial posters like yourself, me, and a couple of others have been made unwelcome on this thread. 

The fundamentalists look like they have been posting less recently, as obviously they know deep in their hearts that their side are committing atrocious crimes. 

 

39 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

My choice of news reporting is with journalists that are actually on the ground there amongst the fray.

 

Same as me.  AJ is the best source of news by far, and the extremists here don't like it as they are Islamophobic.  

The fundamentalists here will be saying in 6 months when 50,000 Gazans have been butchered  -  "but what about the 40 babies killed on Oct 7, or the 1400 Israelis slaughtered"", which have both been proven Israeli lies. 

These extremists who think babies dying every 10 minutes is not ethnic cleansing or a crime have no integrity and I want nothing to do with them.