42 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

It appears that any nation, organization, or entity that opposes Israel is often swiftly labeled as terrorist groups. In this forum too, anyone criticizing Israel’s inhumane actions in Gaza is swiftly accused of being Jews hater, anti-Semite and the rest of ready labels.

 

The founding of Israel itself involved various Jewish organizations, including Haganah, Lohamey Heruth Israel (Stern Gang), and Irgun Zvai Leumi, which was led by Menachem Begin, later becoming the Prime Minister of Israel.

 

These organizations were associated with tragic events such as the Deir Yassin and Kufur Qasim massacres. Additionally, they were responsible for the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat who was unanimously appointed as the United Nations Security Council mediator during the 1947-1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. Bernadotte was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the paramilitary Zionist group Lehi while carrying out his official duties.

 

To this day, Israel has continued to employ terrorist measures including extrajudicial assassination, confiscation of land, collective punishment and bombings. Just yesterday, they issued a notice for 1.1 million people in Gaza to relocate within 24 hours or risk facing airstrikes. They might just as well march 1.1 civilians into a new concentration camp complete with gas champers.

A group of Hamas fighters, numbering in the hundreds, managed to humiliate the Israeli army, its intelligence agencies and brought the entire country on its knees. In retaliation, they have been targeting civilians in a pure act of vengeance and to restore their shattered image and to justify getting billions in military aid from USA.

 

While Israel, with the support of the United States and other major powers, may potentially eliminate Hamas, the question remains: will they ever succeed in quashing the aspirations of millions of Palestinians for their own state and ending the ongoing Israeli occupation?

 

What have the Palestinians done (constructively, that is) to attain the goal of statehood, independence and freedom?

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I'll leave you to your twisted opinion.

So this is your response to being questioned about the Hamas abduction of a severely disabled child, eh …. extra edifying

We have our own Lord Haw Haw now the new propagands minister for Hamas. i don't need to name him you know who he is.

US needs to give Israel 100's of those bunker buster bombs to drop on Gaza and expose the tunnels.

16 minutes ago, Trippy said:

US needs to give Israel 100's of those bunker buster bombs to drop on Gaza and expose the tunnels.

A clip from one bombing video showed a series of bombs dropped every 20 meters down the center line of a major street. Each bomb made a small hole and exploded straight up without touching buildings. Those must have been bunker busters.  I can't find that video but found a similar one.

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

It appears that any nation, organization, or entity that opposes Israel is often swiftly labeled as terrorist groups. In this forum too, anyone criticizing Israel’s inhumane actions in Gaza is swiftly accused of being Jews hater, anti-Semite and the rest of ready labels.

 

The founding of Israel itself involved various Jewish organizations, including Haganah, Lohamey Heruth Israel (Stern Gang), and Irgun Zvai Leumi, which was led by Menachem Begin, later becoming the Prime Minister of Israel.

 

These organizations were associated with tragic events such as the Deir Yassin and Kufur Qasim massacres. Additionally, they were responsible for the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat who was unanimously appointed as the United Nations Security Council mediator during the 1947-1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. Bernadotte was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the paramilitary Zionist group Lehi while carrying out his official duties.

 

To this day, Israel has continued to employ terrorist measures including extrajudicial assassination, confiscation of land, collective punishment and bombings. Just yesterday, they issued a notice for 1.1 million people in Gaza to relocate within 24 hours or risk facing airstrikes. They might just as well march 1.1 civilians into a new concentration camp complete with gas champers.

A group of Hamas fighters, numbering in the hundreds, managed to humiliate the Israeli army, its intelligence agencies and brought the entire country on its knees. In retaliation, they have been targeting civilians in a pure act of vengeance and to restore their shattered image and to justify getting billions in military aid from USA.

 

While Israel, with the support of the United States and other major powers, may potentially eliminate Hamas, the question remains: will they ever succeed in quashing the aspirations of millions of Palestinians for their own state and ending the ongoing Israeli occupation?

 

In addition, Irgun bombed the King David David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 with 91 killed. The murder of the UN mediator was authorised by Yizthak Shamir as one of the 3-man Irgun 'centre'. Shamir later became PM of Israel.

12 minutes ago, kalasiner said:

In addition, Irgun bombed the King David David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 with 91 killed. The murder of the UN mediator was authorised by Yizthak Shamir as one of the 3-man Irgun 'centre'. Shamir later became PM of Israel.

And your point is?

 

The Irgun was not quite mainstream, and did not enjoy mass popular support they way Hamas does. Also, shortly after independence, it was dismantled. On the other hand, even during Palestinian reconciliation talks, Hamas staunchly refused to let go of arms, disband military wing etc.

 

Shamir was elected Prime Minister many years after events unfolded. Not unusual exactly. Israel put up with Arafat heading the PA, as well.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The Hamas aspiration is not a Palestinian state. Their aspiration is a Caliphate and to exterminate the Jews and to end Israel.

Hamas is a tiny group and is not the entire Palestinian people. The entire Palestinian people aspire to see an independent state and an end to the ongoing brutal inhumane Israeli occupation.

2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Hamas is a tiny group and is not the entire Palestinian people. The entire Palestinian people aspire to see an independent state and an end to the ongoing brutal inhumane Israeli occupation.

Hamas won the last general Palestinian elections (that was years ago). It routinely enjoys mass support among Palestinians, both on the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. 

 

1 minute ago, Danny Australia said:

Hamas is a tiny group and is not the entire Palestinian people. The entire Palestinian people aspire to see an independent state and an end to the ongoing brutal inhumane Israeli occupation.

Hamas attacked Israel to get Israel to end their occupation of Gaza?

   Israel doesn't occupy Gaza, but the recent Hamas attack may mean it will do so soon 

1 hour ago, Morch said:

What have the Palestinians done (constructively, that is) to attain the goal of statehood, independence and freedom?

As all nations under occupations before them, they have been resisting Israel's occupation with all they can, while at the same time, working hard to produce a highly educated generation excelling in all fields and ready to build their new state. They also expressed great patience and tolerance trying for 30 years to negotiate peace with successive Israeli governments to no avail. 

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Everybody makes the Palestinian issue more complex by conflating Gaza with the West Bank.

 

Gaza has no issues with Israeli settlers stealing their land.

 

The big issue for Gaza is Hamas, which focuses on destroying Israel via rocket launches and terror attacks, rather than improving the lives of Gazans. If Hamas were eliminated, the Gazans would live better.

 

However, the West Bank is another issue. How to resolve the West Bank issue?

 

I got nuttin.

Text book 'Divide and conquer' policy. Gaza, West bank and East Jerusalem are all one people (And one occupied land according to international law).  

3 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

As all nations under occupations before them, they have been resisting Israel's occupation with all they can, while at the same time, working hard to produce a highly educated generation excelling in all fields and ready to build their new state. They also expressed great patience and tolerance trying for 30 years to negotiate peace with successive Israeli governments to no avail. 

The so-called Palestinian 'resistance', brought them nothing but further misery and hardship - how can it be called constructive?

 

As for the waffle about 'working hard to produce a highly educated generation' and so on - maybe in some fantasy world. Generally speaking there aren't that many Palestinian who are at the forefront of academic and scientific disciplines, none of their academic institution is associated with 'excelling'.

 

As for the last part - presenting the Palestinians as 'ready and willing' to make peace is plainly counterfactual. The Hamas itself rejects the notion, just to point out the obvious.

 

I've no idea were you picked this nonsense from, honestly.

17 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Hamas is a tiny group and is not the entire Palestinian people. The entire Palestinian people aspire to see an independent state and an end to the ongoing brutal inhumane Israeli occupation.

The stated goal of Hamas is the extermination of the jews. What say you to that? Have any Palestinian leaders a disavowed that goal? What say you to that?

 

Outing in progress.

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Text book 'Divide and conquer' policy. Gaza, West bank and East Jerusalem are all one people (And one occupied land according to international law).  

They are one people, fine. They are also experiencing years of political division among themselves. You want to deny or ignore this, go right ahead.

IDF says head of Hamas’s aerial forces killed in overnight Gaza strike

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-head-of-hamass-aerial-forces-killed-in-overnight-gaza-strike/

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Hamas attacked Israel to get Israel to end their occupation of Gaza?

   Israel doesn't occupy Gaza, but the recent Hamas attack may mean it will do so soon 

Israel, as you very well know, had been besieging Gaza from all sides including sea ever since their theatrical withdrawal controlling everything and dictating what goes in and out and who can get in or out with the almost daily humiliations at 'Erez' check point, assassinations, bombings or ground invasion. The long inhumane economic blockade led to Gaza being one of the poorest spots on earth. The recent events should be viewed in this context where a mixture of desperation, anger and poverty created by Israel's long blockade led to the explosion.   

31 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Hamas is a tiny group and is not the entire Palestinian people. The entire Palestinian people aspire to see an independent state and an end to the ongoing brutal inhumane Israeli occupation.

Hamas is not tiny.

Polls show the majority of Palestinians do not favor a two state solution.

2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Israel, as you very well know, had been besieging Gaza from all sides including sea ever since their theatrical withdrawal controlling everything and dictating what goes in and out and who can get in or out with the almost daily humiliations at 'Erez' check point, assassinations, bombings or ground invasion. The long inhumane economic blockade led to Gaza being one of the poorest spots on earth. The recent events should be viewed in this context where a mixture of desperation, anger and poverty created by Israel's long blockade led to the explosion.   

In other words you excuse.the massacres.

2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Israel, as you very well know, had been besieging Gaza from all sides including sea ever since their theatrical withdrawal controlling everything and dictating what goes in and out and who can get in or out with the almost daily humiliations at 'Erez' check point, assassinations, bombings or ground invasion. The long inhumane economic blockade led to Gaza being one of the poorest spots on earth. The recent events should be viewed in this context where a mixture of desperation, anger and poverty created by Israel's long blockade led to the explosion.   

Israel's 'siege' on the Gaza Strip is directly tied to Hamas actions and agenda.

Similar restrictions are applied by Egypt on their side of the border.

1 minute ago, Danny Australia said:

Israel, as you very well know, had been besieging Gaza from all sides including sea 

Wait right here , here's a map of Gaza and can you see the Gaza/ Egyptian border ?

 

24 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

As all nations under occupations before them, they have been resisting Israel's occupation with all they can, while at the same time, working hard to produce a highly educated generation excelling in all fields and ready to build their new state. They also expressed great patience and tolerance trying for 30 years to negotiate peace with successive Israeli governments to no avail. 

Epically clueless.

There are now reports (in Arabic, sorry - will update if I see a decent English version) the IDF announced safe passage south along two main roads, from 10:00-16:00. Urging civilians to evacuate again. 

13 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

The stated goal of Hamas is the extermination of the jews. What say you to that? Have any Palestinian leaders a disavowed that goal? What say you to that?

 

Outing in progress.

I say to that get the hell out of Palestine and let them run their own affairs. No one want to exterminate Jews , enough of this milked out propaganda.

 

If Israel stops occupation and injustices and invading their neighbors then there is no threat to you at all.

 

Actually, Israel is the only country on earth without defined borders. Israel is the last occupation on earth. It should and no doubt would end sooner or later albeit hundreds of thousands more lives on both sides will be lost along the way. 

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Israel, as you very well know, had been besieging Gaza from all sides including sea ever since their theatrical withdrawal controlling everything and dictating what goes in and out and who can get in or out with the almost daily humiliations at 'Erez' check point, assassinations, bombings or ground invasion. The long inhumane economic blockade led to Gaza being one of the poorest spots on earth. The recent events should be viewed in this context where a mixture of desperation, anger and poverty created by Israel's long blockade led to the explosion.   

The sole reason why Gaza gets treated the way it does (by Israel) is to stop Palestinians attacking Israel .

   If Palestinians  would stop attacking Israel, then Israel wouldnt need to place restrictions on Gaza

13 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Israel, as you very well know, had been besieging Gaza from all sides including sea ever since their theatrical withdrawal controlling everything and dictating what goes in and out and who can get in or out with the almost daily humiliations at 'Erez' check point, assassinations, bombings or ground invasion. The long inhumane economic blockade led to Gaza being one of the poorest spots on earth. The recent events should be viewed in this context where a mixture of desperation, anger and poverty created by Israel's long blockade led to the explosion.   

I agree.

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

There are now reports (in Arabic, sorry - will update if I see a decent English version) the IDF announced safe passage south along two main roads, from 10:00-16:00. Urging civilians to evacuate again. 

it's impossible to evacuate 1.1 millions in 24 hours with destroyed roads and no transportations. This is a policy of ethnic cleansing. Yesterday 70 civilians were bombed and killed while following the given so-called evacuation route.

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

I say to that get the hell out of Palestine and let them run their own affairs. No one want to exterminate Jews , enough of this milked out propaganda.

 

If Israel stops occupation and injustices and invading their neighbors then there is no threat to you at all.

 

Actually, Israel is the only country on earth without defined borders. Israel is the last occupation on earth. It should and no doubt would end sooner or later albeit hundreds of thousands more lives on both sides will be lost along the way. 

You state a whole lot of assertions as facts and reality, without basing them on anything much or providing the least support. That's without the factual inaccuracies which pepper all your comments.

2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

it's impossible to evacuate 1.1 millions in 24 hours with destroyed roads and no transportations. This is a policy of ethnic cleansing. Yesterday 70 civilians were bombed and killed while following the given so-called evacuation route.

So far, it actually seems to be getting alone better than expected. The evacuation, that is. Mind, we're not talking about very long distances here. In some instance it can be done on foot.

 

Ethnic cleansing would be what Hamas wishes for, when it calls on civilians to stay put.

1 hour ago, kalasiner said:

In addition, Irgun bombed the King David David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 with 91 killed. The murder of the UN mediator was authorised by Yizthak Shamir as one of the 3-man Irgun 'centre'. Shamir later became PM of Israel.

Whats this got to do with this thread ???