Thailand needs to calm down it's rush to EV !

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Missing statistic - relative kerb masses.

I can't say being heavier improves handling. It probably steers like a cow on roller skates in corners.

Instead of comparing to cars, none of us would want to own, let's compare something a little closer to the Neta V:

curb weight of 1,151kg

 

Yaris ... 1090kg 

Mazda 2 ... 1070kg 

 

Both (AT) costing more than Neta V.

 

Not to mention, onward savings from; petrol, oil changes & tune ups.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[Photoguy21]

I heard a rumour that Honda are stopping making EV's, can anyone confirm if this is true or not?

[Bandersnatch]

54 minutes ago, hydraides said:

Hydrogen vehicles are the way forward

Not economic. When I make power from my solar system to put in my electric car there is some small efficiency loss due to the inversion process, but over 90% of the energy ends up in my car. 
 
With current electrolyzers, green hydrogen's efficiency is around 30%, which means 70% of the renewable energy put into producing green hydrogen is lost across the full cycle of production and use.

 

Good luck with Hydrogen in Thailand. Where are you going to buy your Hydrogen car  - none for sale here. Toyota keeps making promises about it's Mirai but you can't buy it here. Then where will you fill it up? Thailand has no public H2 filling stations.
 
I make power for my electric car from my home solar system  - try making H2 at home.

 

Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be

 

 

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

In this discussion I have seen 3 people who have both solar and an EV, there maybe be more.

 

I already said I have not seen a Thai study so can’t give you an exact % 

 

Most people get solar to power their house first, but in my graph above it should quite clear that the excess solar is “free power” and in my case it is curtailed. 

@Lacessit you already know, but more so for others.

 

As B states, a few have solar to charge our EVs.  Myself, solar bought for house only, as not immediate thoughts of an EV, since purchasing a new ICEV while house was being built.

 

We charge from excess solar, so yes ... 'free'.  The size of our solar system is required for the house, so it cost no more to charge the car.  That money needed to be spent, no matter owning an EV or not. 

 

Crap days, (yesterday) solar provides enough for the house, barely.   Good days, (today) solar provides enough for our house, possible 2 more low electric use houses, or charging 2-4 EVs for local driving (5kWh a day), so yes, plenty of extra, 15-20kWh easily on a clear sunny day.

 

Add the EV to the ROI time of the solar system, and if doing 20k kms a year, as we almost did, may do this year, and it almost cuts the ROI for SS in half.

 

Win win all around.  Y'all really need to get solar, whether you have an EV or not.  Especially if home during daytime and abuse the AC like we do.

 

We've produce & consumed shy of 28/20kWh already, and it's only 1315hrs.

 

Almost 10kWh of that, went to ESSs, as we woke up to 51% this morning left in ESSs.  That's usually 70%, but I left the EV plugged in longer than I should yesterday, not realizing the sun disappeared.  Going into overnight @ 76% instead of 100% ... oops.

Edited October 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

36 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Missing statistic - relative kerb masses.

I can't say being heavier improves handling. It probably steers like a cow on roller skates in corners.

Every EV I have driven handle really well and typically better than ICE cars.

 

Very little body roll because of a lower center of gravity and many around 50/50 weight distribution and 4WD.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Every EV I have driven handle really well and typically better than ICE cars.

 

Very little body roll because of a lower center of gravity and many around 50/50 weight distribution and 4WD.

Same with the MG ZS, owning both.  ICE version, a bit top heavy & all weight up front.  EV ... Battery in center, and it performs much better when playing.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, hydraides said:

Hydrogen vehicles are the way forward

Hydrogen as a fuel will always cost about 3 times more than electricity over the same distance.

 

I can see Hydrogen vehicles being offered as an alternative and poor substitute for BEV’s. Market economics, supply and demand will take care of the rest.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

So I am just supposed to take the word of an EV co-religionist?

"Attacking the poster instead of the facts is dishonest, argument ad hominem." - Lacessit

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Edited October 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[bkk6060]

It seems a waste to me.  It is like buying a VCR when they came out. Then, they became obsolete.

The technology of these vehicles is not near their perfection.  Buy one now in a few years, it could practically be worthless. But if some think it will save the world, then good luck.

[Gweiloman]

18 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

@Lacessit you already know, but more so for others.

 

As B states, a few have solar to charge our EVs.  Myself, solar bought for house only, as not immediate thoughts of an EV, since purchasing a new ICEV while house was being built.

 

We charge from excess solar, so yes ... 'free'.  The size of our solar system is required for the house, so it cost no more to charge the car.  That money needed to be spent, no matter owning an EV or not. 

 

Crap days, (yesterday) solar provides enough for the house, barely.   Good days, (today) solar provides enough for our house, possible 2 more low electric use houses, or charging 2-4 EVs for local driving (5kWh a day), so yes, plenty of extra, 15-20kWh easily on a clear sunny day.

 

Add the EV to the ROI time of the solar system, and if doing 20k kms a year, as we almost did, may do this year, and it almost cuts the ROI for SS in half.

 

Win win all around.  Y'all really need to get solar, whether you have an EV or not.  Especially if home during daytime and abuse the AC like we do.

 

We've produce & consumed shy of 28/20kWh already, and it's only 1315hrs.

 

Almost 10kWh of that, went to ESSs, as we woke up to 51% this morning left in ESSs.  That's usually 70%, but I left the EV plugged in longer than I should yesterday, not realizing the sun disappeared.  Going into overnight @ 76% instead of 100% ... oops.

I actually go one, albeit small step further. My solar is more than sufficient to power my house during the day and when there’s good sunlight, I use the excess to charge my EV. I have TOU so when the sun goes down, I use the V2L feature to power some of my electrical appliances so in essence, my EV battery doubles up as ESS between 6-10 pm when electricity is still at peak rate (5,7 baht plus FT surcharge). After 10 pm, I can charge my EV with off peak rate or charge the next day with “free solar”, depending on my schedule.

 

Like you said. Win win all round.

[Gweiloman]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It seems a waste to me.  It is like buying a VCR when they came out. Then, they became obsolete.

The technology of these vehicles is not near their perfection.  Buy one now in a few years, it could practically be worthless. But if some think it will save the world, then good luck.

Hahahaha. Did you ever buy any CD’s or DVD’s? Guess what, they’re obsolete technology. I hope you didn’t waste any money and still holding out for the latest technology.

 

Billions and billions of dollars are being invested in battery technology by both countries and private corporations. If you know better than them, why are you posting on AN?

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It seems a waste to me.  It is like buying a VCR when they came out. Then, they became obsolete.

The technology of these vehicles is not near their perfection.  Buy one now in a few years, it could practically be worthless. But if some think it will save the world, then good luck.

Got an 8 year warranty for the battery, and I haven't own a car here yet for 8 years, 7 max so far.  Battery estimated (negative at that) to last 500k-900k kms, so not worried about being obsolete, since we put 20k kms on it a year, maybe.  If rest of the car doesn't last that long, simply add the battery bank to our solar system.

 

Not seeing any negatives.

[Lacessit]

21 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Every EV I have driven handle really well and typically better than ICE cars.

 

Very little body roll because of a lower center of gravity and many around 50/50 weight distribution and 4WD.

Fair point.

[JBChiangRai]

23 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It seems a waste to me.  It is like buying a VCR when they came out. Then, they became obsolete.

The technology of these vehicles is not near their perfection.  Buy one now in a few years, it could practically be worthless. But if some think it will save the world, then good luck.

 

You are absolutely right, when we have found the right spell, we will all be riding around on Magic carpets

Edited October 15, 2023 by JBChiangRai
Hubble, Bubble & Dubble post

[Lacessit]

38 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Not economic. When I make power from my solar system to put in my electric car there is some small efficiency loss due to the inversion process, but over 90% of the energy ends up in my car. 
 
With current electrolyzers, green hydrogen's efficiency is around 30%, which means 70% of the renewable energy put into producing green hydrogen is lost across the full cycle of production and use.

 

Good luck with Hydrogen in Thailand. Where are you going to buy your Hydrogen car  - none for sale here. Toyota keeps making promises about it's Mirai but you can't buy it here. Then where will you fill it up? Thailand has no public H2 filling stations.
 
I make power for my electric car from my home solar system  - try making H2 at home.

 

Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be

 

 

The Chinese disagree with you, they are very interested in the technology of converting hydrogen to ammonia for transport, then re-constituting as hydrogen for use.

I would agree EV's will eventually be the vehicle of choice for personal transport. Having said that, hydrogen is definitely the way forward for heavy haulage applications. Batteries are impractical.

The Chinese are not stupid. They know their country has one of the worst records for atmospheric pollution, and it's not getting any better with their appetite for fossil fuels.

 

[Lacessit]

27 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

"Attacking the poster instead of the facts is dishonest, argument ad hominem." - Lacessit

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

So convince me EV owners are not a new religion.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Instead of comparing to cars, none of us would want to own, let's compare something a little closer to the Neta V:

curb weight of 1,151kg

 

Yaris ... 1090kg 

Mazda 2 ... 1070kg 

 

Both (AT) costing more than Neta V.

 

Not to mention, onward savings from; petrol, oil changes & tune ups.

 

The Mazda 2 is a brilliant small car, with an established reputation. What reputation does a Neta V have? I never heard of the brand until this thread.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The Mazda 2 is a brilliant small car, with an established reputation. What reputation does a Neta V have? I never heard of the brand until this thread.

I owned the Mazda 2, wouldn't buy again.  Nor the Yaris, owning the Vios already (before the Mazda), and basically the same car.  Why I chose those 2, as owning and can speak from personal experience.  Good knock around town cars, but that's it.  Noisy as all hell over the road.

 

MG ZS (ICE) was a major step up from both of them, for <100k more.  And the EV version, even better for performance, longevity and future operating cost savings.

Edited October 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

So convince me EV owners are not a new religion.

All hail the mighty EV, 

Grant me everlasting recharges,

The volts to smite mine enemies,

The amps to melt their ICE,

The watts and wherefore‘s notwithstanding,

Strike down those ICE’ers with thy mighty power 

 

Amen!

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

All hail the mighty EV, 

Grant me everlasting recharges,

The volts to smite mine enemies,

The amps to melt their ICE,

The watts and wherefore‘s notwithstanding,

Strike down those ICE’ers with thy mighty power 

 

Amen!

You forgot:

 

A curse on ICE infidels.

May their radiators crack and dry.

[In the jungle]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

All hail the mighty EV, 

Grant me everlasting recharges,

The volts to smite mine enemies,

The amps to melt their ICE,

The watts and wherefore‘s notwithstanding,

Strike down those ICE’ers with thy mighty power 

 

Amen!

To be fair, and I seldom am, that was witty and amusing.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Celerio @ 416k for AT

Maximum power (PS/ rpm) 68/ 6,000 Maximum torque 90 Nm/ 3,500rpm

Length (mm) 3,600

Width (mm) 1,600

Height(mm) 1,540

254 litres of luggage

 

Neta V:

95 PS (94 hp or 70 kW)

150 Nm of torque

Length: 4070 mm. 

Width: 1690 mm. 

Height:1540 mm

rear luggage space of 335 liters

 

I'd definitely spring for the 143k more, and never have to buy petrol again, or oil changes/tune ups.   ROI rather quickly.  Along with, actually enjoy driving it.

Why do you quote the more expensive automatic model?

A Celerio manual is a great little 4 door, I'm seeing them everywhere, not surprising at 320kbht..

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I owned the Mazda 2, wouldn't buy again.  Nor the Yaris, owning the Vios already (before the Mazda), and basically the same car.  Why I chose those 2, as owning and can speak for experience.  Good knock around town cars, but that's it.  Noisy as all hell over the road.

 

MG ZS (ICE) was a major step up from both of them, for <100k more.  And the EV version, even better for performance, longevity and future operating cost savings.

Diverting again, and comparing apples and oranges. An MG ZS is a much bigger and heavier vehicle, they were discounted on price for a reason.

To repeat - what reputation does a Neta V have?

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I owned the Mazda 2, wouldn't buy again.  Nor the Yaris, owning the Vios already (before the Mazda), and basically the same car.  Why I chose those 2, as owning and can speak from personal experience.  Good knock around town cars, but that's it.  Noisy as all hell over the road.

 

MG ZS (ICE) was a major step up from both of them, for <100k more.  And the EV version, even better for performance, longevity and future operating cost savings.

 

I found that the ZS had no poke.

 

I settled on the MG GS.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why do you quote the more expensive automatic model?

A Celerio manual is a great little 4 door, I'm seeing them everywhere, not surprising at 320kbht..

It's called cherry-picking data to suit the argument.

[In the jungle]

54 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Every EV I have driven handle really well and typically better than ICE cars.

 

Very little body roll because of a lower center of gravity and many around 50/50 weight distribution and 4WD.

I followed an MG along a country road I know well.  Lots of lefts and rights of varying radius at about 100 to 120 kph.

 

I don't know the exact model but a smallish SUV.  It was a sloppy horror in the corners.  Particularly poor when transitioning left to right and vice versa.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Diverting again, and comparing apples and oranges. An MG ZS is a much bigger and heavier vehicle, they were discounted on price for a reason.

To repeat - what reputation does a Neta V have?

Neta now have a showroom in Chiang Rai town.

 

I popped in with my sister and brother-in-law last week, and we were all very impressed with the car.

[In the jungle]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why do you quote the more expensive automatic model?

A Celerio manual is a great little 4 door, I'm seeing them everywhere, not surprising at 320kbht..

Mine was 312K out the door.  12 months comprehensive insurance and vehicle recovery.  Free service labour costs for three years.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

I followed an MG along a country road I know well.  Lots of lefts and rights of varying radius at about 100 to 120 kph.

 

I don't know the exact model but a smallish SUV.  It was a sloppy horror in the corners.  Particularly poor when transitioning left to right and vice versa.

It may not have been an EV.

 

The MG EP+ is a bit boat like, great for passengers on a long journey, but not a driver’s car to hurry along twisty roads.

 

I think there is a big difference in cars that are engineered for battery technology, rather than ICE cars that have been converted to BEV.

[In the jungle]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

It may not have been an EV.

 

The MG EP+ is a bit boat like, great for passengers on a long journey, but not a driver’s car to hurry along twisty roads.

 

I think there is a big difference in cars that are engineered for battery technology, rather than ICE cars that have been converted to BEV.

It was an EV.  I was quite impressed by the acceleration.