Ford Loses $32k for every EV sold

[radiochaser]

18 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No, needing to stop 12 times on 1500 m trip.   That's ridiculous. 

 

The biggest problem I have with EV's here in the U.S. of A. is the not very subtle pressure from the government's use of taxpayer money fund them and the anti-fossil fuel progressives continuous pressure to buy one.   If you want one, then buy one, but don't make false claims that they are environmentally better than fossil fuel vehicles when there is evidence that they are not, starting from the moment of collection of the material to make them!   

[radiochaser]

This seems to be a very informative video about an EV.
 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Ouch - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/27/business/ford-earnings/index.html

 

and according to the article, those losses are going to rise

 

Actually, according to the article, the losses are only expected to rise in the short term, and they say they expect to be making 8% profit on their EV's within 3 years.

 

Furthermore:

 

Quote

Farley said the company’s next generation of EVs, still under development, will be far more profitable for the company than its current EV offerings.

 

[Issanman]

4 hours ago, radiochaser said:

Look at the Ford EV 150 Lariat which is comparable to the RAM Laramie I think.  
https://www.ford.ca/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/
 

The prices on that page are listed in Canadian $.

[radiochaser]

2 hours ago, Issanman said:

The prices on that page are listed in Canadian $.

Wait! What?  No!! Damned Canuks, how did they get in here!  :-O 

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Issanman said:

The prices on that page are listed in Canadian $.

With that, seems cheaper than Thailand's price for the Raptor:

"The 2023 Ford Ranger Raptor is now available in Thailand starting at 1,869,000 baht"

 

 

Didn't compare actually specs, as no interest in owning Raptor or F-150 Lightening Pro, along with not living in either CN or USA

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, radiochaser said:

This seems to be a very informative video about an EV.
 

 

Interesting ... as only 1 yr old vid, and she counters the 'expensive' CS scenario and points out plenty of 'FREE' charging stations about 👍

 

Who would have thought .. real life EV owner's experiences vs non owners' ignorance.

Edited November 11, 2023 by KhunLA

[newbee2022]

13 hours ago, connda said:

Another reason EV's aren't going to catch on - they are too da*m expensive.

Actually, there are not in general. To buy a NETA you need just 700.000 Baht. Is this too expensive for a brand new car?😶

[KhunLA]

14 hours ago, connda said:

Another reason EV's aren't going to catch on - they are too da*m expensive.

Another false narrative ... 

 

NETA V starts @ ฿549k and cheaper than most, if not all, 4 cyl /AT, entry level 'made in TH' JP badged cars.

 

MGs start @ ฿771k and cheaper than most JP badged imports of comparable quality.

[Classic Ray]

Judging by the number of 20 - 40 year old ICE cars still happily driving the roads of Thailand, cheap and easy to maintain and repair, I don’t see the incentive for this position to change.

 

The level of poverty and indebtedness, and lack of corrosive salt, means that people will eke out their vehicles until the last possible moment. This could be 20 - 40 years in the future for those with newish vehicles now.

 

I can’t see any Thai government willing to subsidise replacement by EVs or even to invest in a comprehensive charging station network. The power network is nowhere near ready to supply the extra load anyway.

 

it’s petrol and diesel continuing for me, I’m not impressed with the quality of the Chinese EVs I’ve seen here, let alone all the hazards of exploding Lithium Ion batteries.

[kingstonkid]

12 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

If any of us are in Bangkok, we should be encouraging EV use. The pollution from vehicles is absolutely horrific. 

 

Those damn diesel busses are still around too. 

The pollution in Thai cities is not going to be helped by EVs.  Consider that all EV vehicles need electricity to charge them.

Where does the come from?  

 

The other thing that FORD and all the major American manufacturers are also facing is the strike for higher wages.

 

 

 

[sirineou]

At this point it is not a matter of making a profit, but a war of attrition . 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, radiochaser said:

So are the new vehicles.     I looked at a 2023 RAM pickup truck (U.S. of A.) last year and it cost over $75,000.00!  I decided that keeping my paid off 13 year old pickup was a cheaper choice.  I bought it used in 2014 for $34,000.00 with only 14,200 miles on it.   It looked like a brand new truck.   

I looked at that truck in December 2022.  I asked about getting it in green vs the blue that the show room truck had.   I was told I could get it in green but the delivery date would June or July 2023!!!  This is at a dealer that used to be one of the largest, if not the largest dealer in the U.S. of A..  Besides walk in customers they sold vehicles by the tens and hundreds to other new vehicle dealers.   There were times this dealer had more than 1000 vehicles parked on their property!

Sales started dropping towards the end of the first obama term, they closed their back lot during the second obama term and by the time that term ended, they had less than 100 new vehicles on their property.   About the third year of the Trump term, they had new vehicles parked in the back lot again.   That ended in the covid shut down year.   A year into the biden term, they put up barriers blocking off the back lot.  No vehicles or employees work back there any more.   

Now the multi brand show rooms that may have had as many as 50 different vehicles on display before the obama presidential terms, barely have 10 in total some days.   I walk through the showrooms on my way to buy food across the street, after dropping off my truck for service in the service department (used to be open to 8 pm m-f and till 4 pm sat & sun) which closes at 4 pm m-f now.  Some showrooms only have 1 vehicle in them now.  

And the EV trucks they have.  Last time I asked about them, they had no sales of those for two months.   I think that was back in August, after I returned from Thailand. 

Most vehicle sales at this dealer are now used gas vehicles.   How do I know?   I talk to the people in sales as I go through the sales floors.   I have plenty of time do to this.   I drop the truck off for service at the appointment time and they still tell me that it will be an hour or two before I get it back because they have other vehicles ahead of me!!!   aaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

 

 

I guess it would be very hard for you to wrap your mind around the absolute fact that Dems have a history of running the economy much more efficiently then Republicans and more Republican administrations have led to recession then the Democrats. But it's likely that your YouTube podcasts don't talk about that kind of stuff. 

[JBChiangRai]

18 minutes ago, sirineou said:

At this point it is not a matter of making a profit, but a war of attrition . 

 

I can't see how American Automobile manufacturers can be competitive against China.

[Tropposurfer]

The great myth that America was the motoring epicentre of the world, and ever made decent cars ... lol 🤣

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

it’s petrol and diesel continuing for me, I’m not impressed with the quality of the Chinese EVs I’ve seen here, let alone all the hazards of exploding Lithium Ion batteries.

As has been pointed out on other EV-related threads, according to numerous sets of figures from various safety organizations around the world, ICE vehicles are up to 11 times more likely to catch fire than EV's.

 

Here's just one example.

 

Quote

Pinfa (Phosphorous, Inorganic and Nitrogen Flame Retardants Association) suggested around 55 fires per billion miles traveled in ICEs compared to 5 fires per billion miles traveled for EVs.

 

EV fires

[Tord55]

Toyota's new barebones pickup truck will cost €10,000 according to Mr. Toyoda (grandson of the founder), and be both a fuel miser and suitable for families and small businesses. And it runs on fuel, not electric supplies!

I love EVs and electric tools (and aircraft), but only if you can charge them at home. If you need to go a fair distance, say 400 miles and back (including overnighting) electrics aren't the cheapest option, and even more so if you include depreciation.

To go longer distances fuel is sadly the way forward, or sailing! At home we have hefty electric ferries that ply back and forth over the river, and out into the archipelago, but they never stray far from home, and get charged overnight with no problems.

If the news is to be believed both Ford and GM are stalling their electric vehicles production, diverting their resources to other types of propulsion!

[DonniePeverley]

4 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

The pollution in Thai cities is not going to be helped by EVs.  Consider that all EV vehicles need electricity to charge them.

Where does the come from?  

 

The other thing that FORD and all the major American manufacturers are also facing is the strike for higher wages.

 

 

 

 

The electricity won't be manufactured i on neighborhoods and sois in Bangkok. 

 

Pollution at local levels where we walk and live is horrific, and most of THAT is caused by car exhaust fumes. 

 

If we lived in Bangkok and even 30% of the vehicles were electric we would have less local pollution. 

[Tord55]

2 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

The electricity won't be manufactured i on neighborhoods and sois in Bangkok. 

 

Pollution at local levels where we walk and live is horrific, and most of THAT is caused by car exhaust fumes. 

 

If we lived in Bangkok and even 30% of the vehicles were electric we would have less local pollution. 

Even better would be if all two-wheelers stop using petrol, and there was an annual inspection of every car and motorbike that excluded every vehicle that did not follow US exhaust regulations!

[Tord55]

15 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I'm not convinced that EV's are the future, I've always been convinced that Hydrogen is the real longterm solution.

 

Maybe EV's are fine in certain locations, Singapore springs to mind since can drive across the whole island in less than an hour and charging mid journey isn't an issue.

 

But live anywhere where long distance trips are the norm, EV's just don't work.

 

I can fill my car in 5 minutes max, in an EV you might as well go get lunch while your car is re-charging!

 

If I had an EV here in the US and I was to drive to Denver, six hours through basically the nothingness of Wyoming, couldn't do it on a single charge. There is one charging point half way, and I watched a BBC show recently about how unreliable those charging points can be, so if that's down, you are well and truly f???ked in the middle of nowhere.

 

You can carry a can of gas in your car, can't take a spare battery with you

I love Gin!

 

Anyway, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyPQNsJsxjQ

[KannikaP]

17 hours ago, radiochaser said:

where the wife and daughter in law go to have nails done and an ice cream shop

What's that got to do with it?

[KannikaP]

16 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

You can carry a can of gas in your car, can't take a spare battery with you

+1

[DJ54]

Speaking of Nostalgia…. Calif in a few years down the road introducing a bill that would restrict classic cars… are most of us know classic/ custom cars probably on of the least driven cars and by far the coolest….

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Speaking of Nostalgia…. Calif in a few years down the road introducing a bill that would restrict classic cars… are most of us know classic/ custom cars probably on of the least driven cars and by far the coolest….

Maybe they should pass a bill to restrict celebrities from flying private jets to events on Earth Day, so they can tell us how to 'save the planet'

[Elkski]

19 hours ago, radiochaser said:

So are the new vehicles.     I looked at a 2023 RAM pickup truck (U.S. of A.) last year and it cost over $75,000.00!  I decided that keeping my paid off 13 year old pickup was a cheaper choice.  I bought it used in 2014 for $34,000.00 with only 14,200 miles on it.   It looked like a brand new truck.   

I looked at that truck in December 2022.  I asked about getting it in green vs the blue that the show room truck had.   I was told I could get it in green but the delivery date would June or July 2023!!!  This is at a dealer that used to be one of the largest, if not the largest dealer in the U.S. of A..  Besides walk in customers they sold vehicles by the tens and hundreds to other new vehicle dealers.   There were times this dealer had more than 1000 vehicles parked on their property!

Sales started dropping towards the end of the first obama term, they closed their back lot during the second obama term and by the time that term ended, they had less than 100 new vehicles on their property.   About the third year of the Trump term, they had new vehicles parked in the back lot again.   That ended in the covid shut down year.   A year into the biden term, they put up barriers blocking off the back lot.  No vehicles or employees work back there any more.   

Now the multi brand show rooms that may have had as many as 50 different vehicles on display before the obama presidential terms, barely have 10 in total some days.   I walk through the showrooms on my way to buy food across the street, after dropping off my truck for service in the service department (used to be open to 8 pm m-f and till 4 pm sat & sun) which closes at 4 pm m-f now.  Some showrooms only have 1 vehicle in them now.  

And the EV trucks they have.  Last time I asked about them, they had no sales of those for two months.   I think that was back in August, after I returned from Thailand. 

Most vehicle sales at this dealer are now used gas vehicles.   How do I know?   I talk to the people in sales as I go through the sales floors.   I have plenty of time do to this.   I drop the truck off for service at the appointment time and they still tell me that it will be an hour or two before I get it back because they have other vehicles ahead of me!!!   aaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

Please do tell us your theory or the reasons the democrats in your opinion were somehow related to your auto dealer inventory size? .   8 watch a YouTuber who travels to auto dealers to check inventory and prices.  Truck inventory and prices are at a  high.  Lots stuffed with teucks but prices 65- 120k for the raptor.  

 

[Bassosa]

6 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

The pollution in Thai cities is not going to be helped by EVs.  Consider that all EV vehicles need electricity to charge them.

Where does the come from?  

 

The other thing that FORD and all the major American manufacturers are also facing is the strike for higher wages.

 

 

 

C'mon now. Last time I checked power plants weren't located in central Bangkok. This is just a completely illogical and unscientific take.

Not to mention that going forward we have a real chance of using more and more renewables to generate power. 

[Chris Daley]

But the government is sponsoring them in the background.  The goal is to reduce reliance on oil and push the global warming myth.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Chris Daley

[radiochaser]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I guess it would be very hard for you to wrap your mind around the absolute fact that Dems have a history of running the economy much more efficiently then Republicans and more Republican administrations have led to recession then the Democrats. But it's likely that your YouTube podcasts don't talk about that kind of stuff. 

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that, too many things that I buy now, cost as much as 1/2 more now, than they did before biden became president!

Because I tend to just put stuff like receipts for things that I buy, down just anywhere in the house, and I find them months, even years later, I can see that prices are 25% to 50% cheaper back then, before biden was president, than now.    That is an absolute fact!   I buy 3/4 inch plywood that before biden was president cost $35.00 per sheet, now $73.00, as an example.   Before biden, my wife had an estimate for build costs of her dream house that was $300,000.00.   That dream house cost has now increased to $750,000.00!!!   So glad the democrats are doing what they are doing to run the economy better!

If you want to call running the economy better when the democrats/biden causes so much inflation, then by all means, continue to do so.  

What youtube podcasts?   The ones I link to?  Or podcasts I make?   If you are implying that I make podcasts, I am too lazy to do that.   I have 2 or three videos on youtube, and the only person that seems to view them is me, except the video I posted about the CNC machine making a crown for one of my teeth.   That CNC video has over 40 views after about 1 or 2 years!

Edited November 11, 2023 by radiochaser

[radiochaser]

5 hours ago, Elkski said:

Please do tell us your theory or the reasons the democrats in your opinion were somehow related to your auto dealer inventory size? .   8 watch a YouTuber who travels to auto dealers to check inventory and prices.  Truck inventory and prices are at a  high.  Lots stuffed with teucks but prices 65- 120k for the raptor.  

 

As spider implied, it is the democrats who run the economy better than the republicans.  

[radiochaser]

6 hours ago, KannikaP said:

What's that got to do with it?

If I remember that post, someone, I believe they would be Thai, put EV charging stations, where the use of the charging stations, would be just what I stated, the cars using the charging stations would block traffic and the ability to park in a parking spot or, if a car was already in a parking spot, would block the car from leaving it.  

That's my answer, unless you were asking about something else.  If so, please clarify your question.