Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   He was cheering on Hamas as they rampaged across Israel on October 7 th 

Why are you guys so shy and coy about stating your affiliations?

 

Can you provide any of my post or snippet that I've been cheering for Hamas ? Thanks...

 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You seem to trust AJ.....So guess just another nonsense post.

As there the only ones reporting directly from Gaza there's not a lot more choice.

Your best mate Bkk Brian quotes them too.

So more useless nonsense from you to.

[Thorgal]

48 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, Israel does not have the “right” to “defend itself’ against a population living under its occupation.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/1/its-high-time-the-west-ends-its-stomach-churning-doublespeak-on-palestine

 

I like it that you've posted a Al Jazeera link. That's a clear statement.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

As there the only ones reporting directly from Gaza there's not a lot more choice.

Your best mate Bkk Brian quotes them too.

So more useless nonsense from you to.

 

Reporting from the Gaza Strip doesn't indicate credibility, and much of what is quoted on here from AJ are opinion pieces and analysis. The issue is more about taking their word as gospel vs. reading reports with a critical eye. It's quite obvious where some of you stand on this scale.

 

@Bkk Brian is not my mate, let along 'best'. He even disagrees with my posts sometimes (and vice versa).

 

But do go on about nonsense....?

[Thorgal]

12 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

As there the only ones reporting directly from Gaza there's not a lot more choice.

Your best mate Bkk Brian quotes them too.

So more useless nonsense from you to.

 

Even BarraMarra started to use AJ...that means a lot. LOL

Edited December 1, 2023 by Thorgal

[Bkk Brian]

47 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

As there the only ones reporting directly from Gaza there's not a lot more choice.

Your best mate Bkk Brian quotes them too.

So more useless nonsense from you to.

I quote many sources including AJ when its appropriate. I am not limited as you are. You are also wrong, the BBC had a reporter in Gaza at least up until a few days ago Rushdi Abualouf. AP, CNN and many others also use free lance based directly there.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Jeff the Chef]

 

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I quote many sources including AJ when its appropriate. I am not limited as you are.

Thanks Bri, what a pal 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Jeff the Chef

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Thanks Bri, what a pal 

Your not my pal, you seem to be attributing lots of partnerships here, I'd stick to the topic if I was you

[novacova]

“TEL AVIV—Israel’s intelligence services are preparing to kill Hamas leaders around the world when the nation’s war in the Gaza Stripwinds down, setting the stage for a yearslong campaign to hunt down militants responsible for the Oct. 7 massacres, Israeli officials said.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-plans-to-kill-hamas-leaders-around-the-world-after-war-da88e6b9?mod=mhp

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your not my pal, you seem to be attributing lots of partnerships here, I'd stick to the topic if I was you

No problem, I'll take you off the Christmas card list.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

No problem, I'll take you off the Christmas card list.

Go away troll

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Go away troll

You try to be civil, oh well.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, novacova said:

“TEL AVIV—Israel’s intelligence services are preparing to kill Hamas leaders around the world when the nation’s war in the Gaza Stripwinds down, setting the stage for a yearslong campaign to hunt down militants responsible for the Oct. 7 massacres, Israeli officials said.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-plans-to-kill-hamas-leaders-around-the-world-after-war-da88e6b9?mod=mhp

Good article, here's the no paywall link:

 

https://archive.ph/9fJgc

 

With orders from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s top spy agencies are working on plans to hunt down Hamas leaders living in Lebanon, Turkey and Qatar, the small Gulf nation that has allowed the group to run a political office in Doha for a decade, the officials said.
The assassination campaign would be an extension of Israel’s decadeslong clandestine operations that have become the subject of both Hollywood legend and worldwide condemnation. Israeli assassins have hunted Palestinian militants in Beirut while dressed as women, and killed a Hamas leader in Dubai while disguised as tourists. 

[Morch]

 

Israel army publishes map it says advises Gazans of safe evacuation areas

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/israel-army-publishes-map-it-says-advises-gazans-of-safe-evacuation-areas/ar-AA1kPKfU

 

IDF posts map of Gaza to guide civilians away from bombings

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s1kuqnwh6

 

 

Fighting is on again, it seems. This new map indicates that the IDF strategy would be to avoid mass evacuation of civilians (USA objections, nowhere for civilians to evacuate to on this scale) and adopt a different approach where the fighting would be carried out in much smaller, confined zones - with civilians persuasively advised to clear from specific areas ahead of operations.

 

This seems problematic on several issues:

 

(a)

If the destruction meted will be anything as seen on the north side, then pretty soon the musical chairs game will be over, and civilians will have nowhere to stay. On the other hand, this would imply much greater risks to IDF combatants, as it affords Hamas defenders more options to attack from hidden positions. It also implies troops will be in greater contact with civilians, which can generate further risks for both.

 

(b)

Announcing in advance which areas are to be evacuated robs the IDF of the element of surprise. This could be countered by issuing evacuation notices for other areas, but in time it's bound to lead for cry wolf situation where civilians ignore notices which will put them at risk.

 

(c)

Given the size of the areas, it ought to be quite easy for Hamas men to target Israeli forces operating in a specific area, from a neighboring one. If this happens in an area not ordered to evacuate, returning fire would lead to civilians deaths.

 

(d)

The pace of operations would undoubtedly slow down. This would mean greater international pressure on Israel to wrap things up, especially with winter on and Gaza humanitarian issues becoming worse.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

You try to be civil, oh well.

No you troll daily and disrupt the thread

[Neeranam]

59 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Can you provide any of my post or snippet that I've been cheering for Hamas ? Thanks...

 

That guy said something siilar about me, so did his buddies. It's pathetic, as neither you or I have ever shown any support for Hamas.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

That guy said something siilar about me, so did his buddies. It's pathetic, as neither you or I have ever shown any support for Hamas.

 

More lies from you; in an earlier comment you said “If this is true, then Palestinians had a right to retaliate” …. this directly supports the atrocities carried out by Hamas on 7th October. You hide your support for Hamas for a few comments, and then it comes bubbling to the surface once again.

[Morch]

 

As truce ends, Herzog, Qatari Emir seen in first public meeting of countries’ leaders

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-truce-ends-herzog-qatari-emir-seen-in-first-public-meeting-of-countries-leaders/

 

Herzog meets UAE leader on sidelines of climate summit in push to free Gaza hostages

https://www.timesofisrael.com/herzog-meets-uae-leader-on-sidelines-of-climate-summit-in-push-to-free-gaza-hostages/

 

 

Quite amusing, considering some of the commentary from certain posters during the last 7 weeks. Guess not all governments in the region are quite as invested in opposing Israel as advertised. Mind, this doesn't make them best friends or anything, but still. And yeah, I know - the next line of nonsense would be about them being tyrants and that ordinary people are blah blah blah...

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

 

 

 

Australian James Elder is the spokesperson for the United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund (UNICEF). He just filmed this video a short time ago after the resumption of bombardment of Gaza.

He is on the ground in Gaza right now and he sees this madness as War on Children, not war on Hamas.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Hamas have just announced the death of yet another hostage.

 

"It has now been confirmed that Mia Goren, 56, was murdered by Hamas in captivity. Mia was a member of Kibbutz Nir Oz, where she worked as a kindergarten teacher and caregiver to the children of the kibbutz for many years. Her husband, the late Avner Goren, also 56, was murdered on Oct 7. Hamas had kidnapped Mia from her home that day. They murdered her in captivity in Gaza and continue to hold her body. Hamas are just absolute monsters, sub-human!"

 

https://twitter.com/HenMazzig/status/1730569611219751369

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Jeff the Chef]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas have just announced the death of yet another hostage.

 

"It has now been confirmed that Mia Goren, 56, was murdered by Hamas in captivity. Mia was a member of Kibbutz Nir Oz, where she worked as a kindergarten teacher and caregiver to the children of the kibbutz for many years. Her husband, the late Avner Goren, also 56, was murdered on Oct 7. Hamas had kidnapped Mia from her home that day. They murdered her in captivity in Gaza and continue to hold her body. Hamas are just absolute monsters, sub-human!"

 

https://twitter.com/HenMazzig/status/1730569611219751369

 

RIP to all killed in this tragic war.

[metisdead]

A post with unsubstantiated information and the replies contravening our Community Standards and the replies have been removed.  Please provide a valid link to the source(s) of information when posting.

[Bkk Brian]

Report: U.N. Teachers Celebrated Hamas Massacre

As war wages on between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, a watchdog group is releasing a new report that reveals how UNRWA teachers in the enclave, funded largely by the U.S. and EU, indoctrinate Palestinian children and promote terrorism and antisemitism.

Entitled “UNRWA: Hate Starts Here,” today’s report uncovers 20 UNRWA teachers and other staff members who celebrated the October 7th Hamas massacre of Israeli civilians on their social media accounts, collected by the non-governmental organization UN Watch, an independent human rights monitoring group based in Geneva.

The new cases are in addition to 133 UNRWA educators and staff who were exposed for promoting hate and violence in UN Watch’s last report, released in March 2023.

https://unwatch.org/report-u-n-teachers-celebrated-hamas-massacre/

 

Musk calls for change in education in Gaza: 'Fed propaganda since they were children'

Elon Musk emphasized the importance of changing the education system in Gaza during a trip to Israel on Monday to meet with leaders and see the sites of the Oct. 7 terrorist attack.

“These people have been fed propaganda since they were children. And it’s remarkable what humans are capable of if they’re fed falsehoods from when they are children,” Musk said. “They will think that the murder of innocent people is a good thing. That is how much propaganda can affect people’s minds.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/propaganda-children-musk-gaza-hamas-israel

 

25,000 Gaza youth finish Hamas-backed paramilitary training

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

Got a bunch of nice, big pomegranates ('Black Diamond' variety) from Makro a few days ago. Cutting them open today, I recalled that there's a saying in Arabic (at least among Lebanese and Palestinians) about how pomegranates taste sweeter after wars, soaking the blood of the fallen. There's another saying like that, about olives being bitter post war, watered by the tears of mothers, wives and daughters. I think there's an old song in Arabic mixing the two saying, but can't quite remember (by Fairuz, maybe).

[Jeff the Chef]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

Got a bunch of nice, big pomegranates ('Black Diamond' variety) from Makro a few days ago. Cutting them open today, I recalled that there's a saying in Arabic (at least among Lebanese and Palestinians) about how pomegranates taste sweeter after wars, soaking the blood of the fallen. There's another saying like that, about olives being bitter post war, watered by the tears of mothers, wives and daughters. I think there's an old song in Arabic mixing the two saying, but can't quite remember (by Fairuz, maybe).

Don't eat yellow snow, perhaps.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Israel army publishes map it says advises Gazans of safe evacuation areas

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/israel-army-publishes-map-it-says-advises-gazans-of-safe-evacuation-areas/ar-AA1kPKfU

 

IDF posts map of Gaza to guide civilians away from bombings

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s1kuqnwh6

 

 

Fighting is on again, it seems. This new map indicates that the IDF strategy would be to avoid mass evacuation of civilians (USA objections, nowhere for civilians to evacuate to on this scale) and adopt a different approach where the fighting would be carried out in much smaller, confined zones - with civilians persuasively advised to clear from specific areas ahead of operations.

 

This seems problematic on several issues:

 

(a)

If the destruction meted will be anything as seen on the north side, then pretty soon the musical chairs game will be over, and civilians will have nowhere to stay. On the other hand, this would imply much greater risks to IDF combatants, as it affords Hamas defenders more options to attack from hidden positions. It also implies troops will be in greater contact with civilians, which can generate further risks for both.

 

(b)

Announcing in advance which areas are to be evacuated robs the IDF of the element of surprise. This could be countered by issuing evacuation notices for other areas, but in time it's bound to lead for cry wolf situation where civilians ignore notices which will put them at risk.

 

(c)

Given the size of the areas, it ought to be quite easy for Hamas men to target Israeli forces operating in a specific area, from a neighboring one. If this happens in an area not ordered to evacuate, returning fire would lead to civilians deaths.

 

(d)

The pace of operations would undoubtedly slow down. This would mean greater international pressure on Israel to wrap things up, especially with winter on and Gaza humanitarian issues becoming worse.

 

 

 

There were five points....one dropped:

 

(e)

The IDF did not actually complete operations in northern Gaza. The 'truce' (or whatever you call it) put a halt to these. As is stands there are, I think, three neighborhoods (which are also main Hamas strongholds) left. Surrounded, yes, but maybe risky heading south with these at the back? Could be that the announcements about the war effort moving to the south are just a diversion. Guess we'll know soon enough.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Morch

[Bkk Brian]

Within the last couple of days the number of named hostages being declared dead by Hamas has increased now to 6.

Arye Zalmanovich, 85
Eliyahu Margalit,75
Guy Iluz, 26
Maya Goren, 56
Ronen Engel, 55

 

This is without the 10 month old baby her brother and mum.

 

There are still a few of the female hostages that were taken that have still not been released and who knows if they are alive. Perhaps their plight in captivity was so horrific Hamas thought it better to kill them.

 

This is one of them, still missing, the jeep was captured being driven into Shifa Hospital.

 

Source

Source

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/25/2023 at 8:48 PM, Walker88 said:

The threads on this issue get 10,000 comments because many people feel they have a closer connection to it. Ukraine, of infinitely more global significance, draws fewer reactions and less virulent reactions. Many more innocents have been slaughtered in Ukraine, but it doesn't elicit the same degree of emotionalism, not only on this Forum, but in the streets of European and American cities. Russia is absolutely, 100% purposely targeting civilians/schools/hosptials/etc. There is no doubt, while there is room for doubt with the IDF. Still, a million take to the street in the UK over Gaza, but maybe a few thousand in one and a half years of the russian invasion of Ukraine.

Congratulations on a post that is actually thoughtful, and not the usual israel good, Hamas and all Gazans need to be killed type of post I'm used to seeing.

However, to answer your last paragraph, IMO it's because we don't like to see 2.3 million people that have been confined to what has to be the largest open air jail on the planet slaughtered by israeli and American  bombs from safety high in the sky. The phrase "shooting fish in a barrel" applies here with bells on.

The Gazans have no army, no air defense, hardly any military structure at all to resist ( Hamas is a small group armed with rifles and RPGs, no tanks, no artillery, no Iron Dome etc, and is hardly an "army" ), and now they have no hospitals to speak of, can't get clean water, even food is a problem, and they have no means of escape to anywhere, so all they can do is try and dig their dead children and women out of the rubble with hammers and bare hands while the slaughter continues.

 

There is no equivalent in Ukraine; they have best weapons the west can send them, and they can certainly run away to another country. Perhaps they are victims of their own success in halting the Russian advances. They are not "us" and they are holding their own, so why would the common man with enough problems of their own go and demonstrate for that unfortunate country?

 

Many of us don't like to see the laws that are supposed to govern conflict so brazenly flouted- the israelis don't even try to abide by the humanitarian laws, and simply ignore any protest. It's just so blatantly unfair to use a huge army armed with tanks, artillery, bombers etc to crush a mostly unprotected population with no escape, so while israel will win the conflict ( I won't call it a war ), they are going to get a hiding in world public opinion. The world has been watching, and is not impressed.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Within the last couple of days the number of named hostages being declared dead by Hamas has increased now to 6.

But that cannot be true, the usual suspects told us that the terrorists have been treating the hostages very well and they looked sad when some of them were returned to Israel.

[Bkk Brian]

Here's what the Hamas leadership thinks about remaining hostages:

 

This is absolutely ridiculous- CBS Host asks a Hamas Leader how many Hostages are still alive, his answer?

“I Don’t know” "the number is not so important"

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Bkk Brian