Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

a) Surely, nobody is foolish enough to think that Israel has reduced the number of Hamas terrorists? They have increased it dramatically.

 

b) Garbage.

 

I don't know - it's something you claim. Not something you provide proof for. By your 'reasoning' Hamas ranks should have been swelling by now, even prior to the current war. The effect you mention is either constant, as in so long as things go on there's a steady stream of volunteers to draw on, with occasional 'peaks' after such wars. It doesn't change the overall situation much.

 

As for your garbage comment - the Fatah/PLO would be the obvious example. But then you don't seem to know much about things. Strong opinion, yeah - you do have those.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That makes the other 10,000 not actually a war crime?

 

That makes your original comment incorrect, and your current one a deflection.

But you already knew that....

[Nick Carter icp]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That makes the other 10,000 not actually a war crime?

 

  Correct , the Palestinians  killed isn't a war crime 

I thought that you would have known that , as you claim to know about it 

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Correct , the Palestinians  killed isn't a war crime 

I thought that you would have known that , as you claim to know about it 

 

That's your assertion. It will be surely looked into, and I have little doubts that at least some instances of the Israeli attack would indeed be classed as 'war crimes'. Going by past instances, that's almost a given. That doesn't mean all of the Palestinian deaths and the accompanying destruction would be labeled 'war crimes' - my guess (again, based on past instances) is that they will not.

 

Hamas actions are often much more clear cut in terms of such violations.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Correct. Israel is committing itself to endless conflict, endless fear of attack, endless brutalisation of it's young people made to oppress the legal owners of the land they are being forced off.

 

  So If Israel didn't respond to Hamas terror attacks and a seemingly endless barrage of rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel , if Israel just allowed Hamas to invade Israel and commit mass murder and genocide on the Israeli population and didn't respond , if Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis , Israel then wouldn't have to fear attacks ?

   Did you think that through before you posted it ?

[JBChiangRai]

Israel is a Terrorist State

 

I am using this definition taken from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica Online which defines terrorism generally as "the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective". The encyclopedia adds that "[e]stablishment terrorism, often called state or state-sponsored terrorism, is employed by governments—or more often by factions within governments—against that government's citizens, against factions within the government, or against foreign governments or groups."

 

I am not saying this because of Israel's response to the Hamas attacks on 7th July which probably could be qualification criteria (and let me be clear before you jump in with labeling me antisemitic, I am not, many of my friends and business colleagues are Israeli.  Further, I do condemn the attacks on 7th October by the terrorists Hamas.

 

I label Israel a Terrorist State because since 7th October there have been 314 attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank (documented by the UN) some of these have been used to steal more land from the Palestinians.  The USA has sanctioned some of these settlers and is applying pressure to Israel to stop allowing this to happen.  Of course nothing will happen.

 

Israel is occupying the West Bank against international law and is operating an apartheid system.

 

Israel is a Terrorist State under Netanyahu because it's aim in allowing the settlers to terrorise the West Bank civilians is to label all of the West Bank "Israel" as documented by Netanyahu himself in his July presentation to the UN showing both Gaza & the West Bank as one single entity "Israel".

 

State terrorism - Wikipedia

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by JBChiangRai
add reference

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Israel is a Terrorist State

 

I am using this definition taken from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica Online which defines terrorism generally as "the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective". The encyclopedia adds that "[e]stablishment terrorism, often called state or state-sponsored terrorism, is employed by governments—or more often by factions within governments—against that government's citizens, against factions within the government, or against foreign governments or groups."

 

I am not saying this because of Israel's response to the Hamas attacks on 7th July which probably could be qualification criteria (and let me be clear before you jump in with labeling me antisemitic, I am not, many of my friends and business colleagues are Israeli.  Further, I do condemn the attacks on 7th October by the terrorists Hamas.

 

I label Israel a Terrorist State because since 7th October there have been 314 attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank (documented by the UN) some of these have been used to steal more land from the Palestinians.  The USA has sanctioned some of these settlers and is applying pressure to Israel to stop allowing this to happen.  Of course nothing will happen.

 

Israel is occupying the West Bank against international law and is operating an apartheid system.

 

Israel is a Terrorist State under Netanyahu because it's aim in allowing the settlers to terrorise the West Bank civilians is to label all of the West Bank "Israel" as documented by Netanyahu himself in his July presentation to the UN showing both Gaza & the West Bank as one single entity "Israel".

 

State terrorism - Wikipedia

 

 

You can make that argument but at the end of the day terrorist state is just another demonizing label of use to "progressive" students hate on Israel rallies and little else. Clearly there are very serious issues on both sides of the conflict. The west bank settlements are a good example of a major failing of Israel. The way too long career of Netanyahu has been disastrous.

But on the other side you have strong majority populations not only Hamas that can't even accept any Zionist Israel at all in any borders. I don't have the answers but I'm sure more food for the simple minded Free Palestine River to the sea oppression chic fashionistas is not helpful. By Zionist I don't mean right wing, I mean the core meaning. A sovereign nation state homeland with a majority demographic being Jewish people. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Jingthing

[Morch]

53 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Israel is a Terrorist State

 

I am using this definition taken from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica Online which defines terrorism generally as "the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective". The encyclopedia adds that "[e]stablishment terrorism, often called state or state-sponsored terrorism, is employed by governments—or more often by factions within governments—against that government's citizens, against factions within the government, or against foreign governments or groups."

 

I am not saying this because of Israel's response to the Hamas attacks on 7th July which probably could be qualification criteria (and let me be clear before you jump in with labeling me antisemitic, I am not, many of my friends and business colleagues are Israeli.  Further, I do condemn the attacks on 7th October by the terrorists Hamas.

 

I label Israel a Terrorist State because since 7th October there have been 314 attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank (documented by the UN) some of these have been used to steal more land from the Palestinians.  The USA has sanctioned some of these settlers and is applying pressure to Israel to stop allowing this to happen.  Of course nothing will happen.

 

Israel is occupying the West Bank against international law and is operating an apartheid system.

 

Israel is a Terrorist State under Netanyahu because it's aim in allowing the settlers to terrorise the West Bank civilians is to label all of the West Bank "Israel" as documented by Netanyahu himself in his July presentation to the UN showing both Gaza & the West Bank as one single entity "Israel".

 

State terrorism - Wikipedia

 

 

 

Rubbish.

[Neeranam]

58 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Clearly there are very serious issues on both sides of the conflict. The west bank settlements are a good example of a major failing of Israel. The way too long career of Netanyahu has been disastrous.

But on the other side you have strong majority populations not only Hamas that can't even accept any Zionist Israel at all in any borders. I don't have the answers but I'm sure more food for the simple minded Free Palestine River to the sea oppression chic fashionistas is not helpful. By Zionist I don't mean right wing, I mean the core meaning. A sovereign nation state homeland with a majority demographic being Jewish people. 

Thanks for your honesty -  good post.

 

No one here has the answers and it is important to see each side's faults if peaace is to come.

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Israel is a Terrorist State

 

I am using this definition taken from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica Online which defines terrorism generally as "the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective". The encyclopedia adds that "[e]stablishment terrorism, often called state or state-sponsored terrorism, is employed by governments—or more often by factions within governments—against that government's citizens, against factions within the government, or against foreign governments or groups."

 

I am not saying this because of Israel's response to the Hamas attacks on 7th July which probably could be qualification criteria (and let me be clear before you jump in with labeling me antisemitic, I am not, many of my friends and business colleagues are Israeli.  Further, I do condemn the attacks on 7th October by the terrorists Hamas.

 

I label Israel a Terrorist State because since 7th October there have been 314 attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank (documented by the UN) some of these have been used to steal more land from the Palestinians.  The USA has sanctioned some of these settlers and is applying pressure to Israel to stop allowing this to happen.  Of course nothing will happen.

 

Israel is occupying the West Bank against international law and is operating an apartheid system.

 

Israel is a Terrorist State under Netanyahu because it's aim in allowing the settlers to terrorise the West Bank civilians is to label all of the West Bank "Israel" as documented by Netanyahu himself in his July presentation to the UN showing both Gaza & the West Bank as one single entity "Israel".

 

State terrorism - Wikipedia

 

 

Good post, just wait for the antisemite cries 555!

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Good post, just wait for the antisemite cries 555!

 

   Its just you who keeps saying "anti Semite" , no one else is saying it, just you 

[Nick Carter icp]

16 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

So the ICC only (sort of) investigate war crimes lol

 

   Taking hostages is a war crime . 

Hamas are holding hostages, which is a war crime . 

When will the I.C.C begin its prosecution of Hamas for war crimes ?

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

This is off X (formally know as Twitter), as a collective of for and against what is going on in the Middle East can we all have a look at it and give an opinion of it without the normal "its this or that compared to our individual views on this conflict" ?

 

 

Man, you're hitting rock bottom again. A twitter account to a British/Syrian youtuber who also happens to be followed on twitter by Scott Ritter...lol An explicit Hamas supporter peddling misinformation videos.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Man, you're hitting rock bottom again. A twitter account to a British/Syrian youtuber who also happens to be followed on twitter by Scott Ritter...lol An explicit Hamas supporter peddling misinformation videos.

 

Enough to look at the list of people interviews on his website - all the usual suspects.

Another giveaway would be the fashion choice...

 

Not to mention that the gas/oil thing is nonsense.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Morch

[Jeff the Chef]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Taking hostages is a war crime . 

Hamas are holding hostages, which is a war crime . 

When will the I.C.C begin its prosecution of Hamas for war crimes ?

I'm not disputing Hamas are guilty of War Crimes, guilty as charged, from the 7th alone.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I'm not disputing Hamas are guilty of War Crimes, guilty as charged, from the 7th alone.

 

   When will the I.C.C be taking action against Hamas and prosecuting the Hamas leaders in Qatar?

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Rubbish.

 

Expand on that, which part is rubbish?

[Thorgal]

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  So If Israel didn't respond to Hamas terror attacks and a seemingly endless barrage of rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel , if Israel just allowed Hamas to invade Israel and commit mass murder and genocide on the Israeli population and didn't respond , if Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis , Israel then wouldn't have to fear attacks ?

   Did you think that through before you posted it ?

 

A lot of "if's" in your post. Please provide some facts from what you've posted.

 

How many Israeli's have been killed since 7th of October by Gaza rocket fire?

 

You've claimed that : "Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis"...

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

 

 

How many Israeli's have been killed since 7th of October by Gaza rocket fire?

 

You've claimed that : "Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis"...

 

   That was my point .

Israel waging war with Hamas have (nearly ) stopped the rocket attacks from Gaza

[Thorgal]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That was my point .

Israel waging war with Hamas have (nearly ) stopped the rocket attacks from Gaza

 

OK, no facts and figures. Just a lot of "if's"...

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Thorgal said:

 

OK, no facts and figures. Just a lot of "if's"...

 

  I was making the point that there was conflict before this war and Israel wouldn't have been able to live peacefully if they hadn't attacked Gaza , which was suggested by a poster

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

OK, no facts and figures. Just a lot of "if's"...

You sound disappointed that the rocket attacks on Israel may be easing up. 🥴

[Thorgal]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I was making the point that there was conflict before this war and Israel wouldn't have been able to live peacefully if they hadn't attacked Gaza , which was suggested by a poster

 

You didn't back up any of your false claims :

 

 "Israel just allowed Hamas to invade Israel and commit mass murder and genocide on the Israeli population" :

 

-> There was never an invasion (to enter a country by force with large numbers of soldiers in order to take possession of it) and a genocide (decided by ICC Court decision remember) since 7th of October. 

 

 

 

"if Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis" :

 

-> You refuse to back up your claim that Palestinian rockets killed Israelis on daily basis.

[Thorgal]

9 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You sound disappointed that the rocket attacks on Israel may be easing up. 🥴

 

"Sounding" is an impression or opinion without backing it up with facts and figures.

 

Please provide credible links to what was claimed falsely by the other poster.

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Expand on that, which part is rubbish?

 

When I was young, my dad and his friend would take us kids, and the dogs, for a long walk to the local dump. They had this DIY/recycling hobby thing going. We never liked it all that much, plus the dogs would go ape<deleted> over stuff there, and we'd have to run after them. Point being is that I'm done sifting through rubbish, thank you very much.

 

By the way, nice to see that semi-balanced mask falling off. Easier to deal with people when they aren't hiding their views.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, Thorgal said:

 

"Sounding" is an impression or opinion without backing it up with facts and figures.

 

Please provide credible links to what was claimed falsely by the other poster.

It was an observation one gets by reading your incessant repetitive posts on your defence of the murderous scum that committed these horrific crimes in Israel! HTH 😡

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

You didn't back up any of your false claims :

 

 "Israel just allowed Hamas to invade Israel and commit mass murder and genocide on the Israeli population" :

 

-> There was never an invasion (to enter a country by force with large numbers of soldiers in order to take possession of it) and a genocide (decided by ICC Court decision remember) since 7th of October. 

 

 

 

"if Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis" :

 

-> You refuse to back up your claim that Palestinian rockets killed Israelis on daily basis.

 

Go away, troll.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

You didn't back up any of your false claims :

 

 "Israel just allowed Hamas to invade Israel and commit mass murder and genocide on the Israeli population" :

 

-> There was never an invasion (to enter a country by force with large numbers of soldiers in order to take possession of it) and a genocide (decided by ICC Court decision remember) since 7th of October. 

 

 

 

"if Israel just continued daily life with rockets killing them on a daily basis" :

 

-> You refuse to back up your claim that Palestinian rockets killed Israelis on daily basis.

 

   There was indeed an invasion of Israel on October 7 th 

 

"to enter a country by force ".............Yes

"with large numbers of soldiers" ..............Yes

"in order to take possession of it".........Yes

 

   It ticks all the boxes for being an invasion .

(OK, Regular rockets from Gaza , they might not have been every single day)

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

When I was young, my dad and his friend would take us kids, and the dogs, for a long walk to the local dump. They had this DIY/recycling hobby thing going. We never liked it all that much, plus the dogs would go ape<deleted> over stuff there, and we'd have to run after them. Point being is that I'm done sifting through rubbish, thank you very much.

 

By the way, nice to see that semi-balanced mask falling off. Easier to deal with people when they aren't hiding their views.

 

You don't appear to be done judging from your voluminous posts, I guess it's difficult for you to argue against facts.

[Thorgal]

21 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

It was an observation one gets by reading your incessant repetitive posts on your defence of the murderous scum that committed these horrific crimes in Israel! HTH 😡

 

1. the term "genocide" was not accepted to be used for the Palestinians as there was no ICC court decision.  Idem dito for the Israeli's.

 

2. daily Israeli fatalities by Gaza rocket fire was never confirmed by any news group or state officials

 

3. this was not an invasion : https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/invade

 

I've said it earlier : I'm against false war propaganda from both sides. Keep me out of this if Israel uses more false war propaganda than the Palestinians...

Edited December 6, 2023 by Thorgal