Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Danny Australia]

Palestinian Girl Killed in Israeli Attack on Maternity Ward (yahoo.com)

 

 

This Palestinian girl, Donia Abu Mohsen 13 years old, was injured in a previous Israeli attack few weeks ago and had both legs amputated. Her mother, father and two brothers were also killed in the earlier attack, and Mohsen was seeking treatment at the Nassar hospital. She was killed yesterday as a result of an Israeli bombing that targeted the medical complex. This hospital is now no longer operational.

 

An innocent injured orphaned child was not safe even in her hospital bed. Despicable crime and utter injustice. 

 

Those with no humanity left in them would still come out fast and blame Hamas for this disgusting crime. 

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Britain's former defense secretary warns Israel's 'killing rage' risks 50 more years of conflict

Israel is losing its legal basis for the war in Gaza with its “killing rage,” senior British politician Ben Wallace has warned amid growing Western criticism of Tel Aviv. 

The former defense secretary told the Daily Telegraph that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was “losing sight of the long term,” advising Israel to end its "crude and indiscriminate method of attack" in Gaza.

“But if he thinks a killing rage will rectify matters, then he is very wrong,” he said.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/britains-former-defense-secretary-warns-israels-killing-rage-risks-50-more-years-of-conflict/3086399

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2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

Your last point is nonsense. The more destruction the more effort it would be to rule and manage the Gaza Strip. The more death, the less cooperation from international community.

 

 

 

Really? You think 20,000 as opposed to 40,000 or 40,000 as opposed to 80,000 is going to make a difference in the desire of the international community to cooperate? Why?

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2 hours ago, Morch said:

And 'moderates' participation in government helping their future political prospects? Very debatable. There are views that this may actually harm them, and serve Netanyahu. Asserting 'overwhelmingly likely that their thinking has changed' - carries little weight, just your opinion. Current polls continue to be very much negative to Netnayahu and the right in general. Considering the votes were almost evenly split last time, there isn't such a huge gap to close or anything.s are kinda soft on that. 

 

There are views? I'm sure there are. Are they sensible? Clearly not.

 

Israelis Abandon Political Left Over Security Concerns After Oct. 7

Disenchanted by the prospect for peace after a devastating terrorist attack, Israelis are becoming more conservative in their politics.

In the wellspring of sadness, anger and fear that has gripped Israel since that day, a consensus has emerged that Israel needs to take a harder line with the Palestinians and embrace an even more militarized state. And while public opinion of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is faltering, support for the policies upheld by his right-wing government is growing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/world/middleeast/israel-oct-7-left-wing-peace.html

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Israel Quietly Pushed for Egypt to Admit Large Numbers of Gazans
The Israeli government has not publicly called for large numbers of Gazans to move to Egypt. But in private, diplomats say, it has pushed for just that — augmenting Palestinian fears of a permanent expulsion.

https://archive.ph/SE8z6

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/world/middleeast/israel-egypt-gaza.html

 

Intelligence Ministry ‘concept paper’ proposes transferring Gazans to Egypt’s Sinai
Prime Minister’s Office plays down document as hypothetical, non-binding, though Netanyahu reported to be lobbying EU governments to pressure Egypt to take in refugees

https://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gazans-to-egypts-sinai/

 

As time goes by the pressure to do something will grow even stronger. You really believe that members of the Israeli government aren't aware of how the massive destruction of infrastructure can play out? Those people may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them.

 

Is that the best you can come up with?

 

The first link does not actually go the full distance on your own assertions.

 

The second link was addressed numerous times by now - kinda doubt you missed that. Not government policy, not a ministry with any authority, and the paper was not embraced by the government.

 

As for the last point, I beg to differ - I think many on the current Israeli government are thick as bricks, ignorant and/or victims of religious set of mind which hampers logical thought processes. They have smarts, sort of, on the domestic political level - and even that's debatable.

 

Nice try.

[Bkk Brian]

17 hours ago, Morch said:

IDF says terrorist who took part in Oct. 7 attack nabbed at Gaza school alongside other Hamas members

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-terrorist-who-took-part-in-oct-7-attack-nabbed-at-gaza-school-alongside-other-hamas-members/

 

Slowly but surely....

Great news

 

That figures, captured in a raid on a school.

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? You think 20,000 as opposed to 40,000 or 40,000 as opposed to 80,000 is going to make a difference in the desire of the international community to cooperate? Why?

 

Yes.

Because of two reasons:

 

(a)

Apart from the propaganda angle, the combatant: civilian ratio is not, I think, atrocious given the circumstances, and would be something most defense ministries/armies can convey to respective governments.

 

(b)

The above said, there will be a time (if casualties continue to mount at the same pace) where things could no longer be framed in any reasonable or digestible context. Meaning, it will just be too many dead people for governments to stomach - politically, for sure. Obviously, not there yet.

[Nick Carter icp]

25 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Great news

 

That figures, captured in a raid on a school.

 

   Number 2 took part in the massacre near Kibbutz Erez 

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yes.

Because of two reasons:

 

(a)

Apart from the propaganda angle, the combatant: civilian ratio is not, I think, atrocious given the circumstances, and would be something most defense ministries/armies can convey to respective governments.

 

(b)

The above said, there will be a time (if casualties continue to mount at the same pace) where things could no longer be framed in any reasonable or digestible context. Meaning, it will just be too many dead people for governments to stomach - politically, for sure. Obviously, not there yet.

That still doesn't explain why the willingness of countries to provide aid would be inversely proportional to how many civilians were killed. If anything, the more civilians that are killed, the more pressure there will be to allow aid.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, placeholder said:

That still doesn't explain why the willingness of countries to provide aid would be inversely proportional to how many civilians were killed. If anything, the more civilians that are killed, the more pressure there will be to allow aid.

 

Oh, I'm sure they will.

My point was about how they'll deal with Israel on related issues.

I think we had some miscommunication on this matter.

[Bkk Brian]

Again the truth coming out from the hospitals and the Hamas terrorist medical staff including doctors.

 

“The leaders of Hamas are cowards. They left us in the field while they hide in secret places… They have destroyed us”

 

Breaking:

Ahmad Kahlout, the Director of the Kamal Adwan Hospital in Gaza, admits that Hamas has turned hospitals into military facilities.

He says: "I was recruited to Hamas as a Brigadier General. There are doctors and nurses in the hospital who are Hamas military operatives. Hamas has offices in the hospital and uses special ambulances to transfer Israeli hostages".

https://twitter.com/ofirgendelman/status/1737111534068002850

 

More details here:

Kahalot admits Hamas has turned hospitals into military facilities under their control: “I was recruited to Hamas in 2010 with the rank of Brigadier General. There are employees in the hospital who are military operatives of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades - doctors, nurses, paramedics, clerks, and staff members”

“They hide in hospitals because for them a hospital is a safe place. They won't be targeted when they are inside a hospital”

“I know 16 employees in the hospital - doctor, nurse, paramedic, or clerks… who also have different positions in al-Qassam”

“There are offices where the Hamas leader and two of the senior officials were. There’s a place where the soldier was in (the kidnapped soldier). There’s a place for the interrogators, internal security, and special security. All of them have private telephone lines inside the hospital”

“They [Hamas] have a private ambulance, even it color and the way it’s painted are different, and it doesn’t have a license plate. They used it to transport the soldier [kidnapped] and transport bodies… It didn’t assist us with transporting the injured”

https://twitter.com/mrconfino/status/1737111785923371516

 

[Morch]

Seven arrested in Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands over suspected terrorism plots

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/seven-arrested-in-germany-denmark-the-netherlands-over-suspected-terrorism-plots/ar-AA1lvBTd

 

Four arrested in Europe over alleged cross-border Hamas terrorism plot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/14/four-arrested-in-europe-over-alleged-cross-border-hamas-terrorism-plot

 

Denmark widens terror investigation that coincides with arrests of alleged Hamas members in Germany

https://apnews.com/article/europe-terror-investigation-denmark-germany-hamas-netherlands-e85ba592202a80718c4c220d1fc55aa4

 

That's not a great way to secure and maintain political support.....

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

Seven arrested in Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands over suspected terrorism plots

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/seven-arrested-in-germany-denmark-the-netherlands-over-suspected-terrorism-plots/ar-AA1lvBTd

 

Four arrested in Europe over alleged cross-border Hamas terrorism plot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/14/four-arrested-in-europe-over-alleged-cross-border-hamas-terrorism-plot

 

Denmark widens terror investigation that coincides with arrests of alleged Hamas members in Germany

https://apnews.com/article/europe-terror-investigation-denmark-germany-hamas-netherlands-e85ba592202a80718c4c220d1fc55aa4

 

That's not a great way to secure and maintain political support.....

 

Political support for whom and by whom. Are you continuing to attempt to slur board members with supporting Hamas?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Political support for whom and by whom. Are you continuing to attempt to slur board members with supporting Hamas?

 

Political support by European governments and the people they represent.

You protest too much....

[ozimoron]

43 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Political support by European governments and the people they represent.

You protest too much....

 

None of them support Hamas.

[asf6]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Its what anyone with common sense would say about the perils of ground warfare in Gaza.

A guess or opinion is fine, so long as we know that’s what it is. I am actually interested in the facts – or at least what the IDF soldiers state them to be.  But thanks for your opinion. 

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Again the truth coming out from the hospitals and the Hamas terrorist medical staff including doctors.

 

“The leaders of Hamas are cowards. They left us in the field while they hide in secret places… They have destroyed us”

 

Breaking:

Ahmad Kahlout, the Director of the Kamal Adwan Hospital in Gaza, admits that Hamas has turned hospitals into military facilities.

He says: "I was recruited to Hamas as a Brigadier General. There are doctors and nurses in the hospital who are Hamas military operatives. Hamas has offices in the hospital and uses special ambulances to transfer Israeli hostages".

https://twitter.com/ofirgendelman/status/1737111534068002850

 

More details here:

Kahalot admits Hamas has turned hospitals into military facilities under their control: “I was recruited to Hamas in 2010 with the rank of Brigadier General. There are employees in the hospital who are military operatives of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades - doctors, nurses, paramedics, clerks, and staff members”

“They hide in hospitals because for them a hospital is a safe place. They won't be targeted when they are inside a hospital”

“I know 16 employees in the hospital - doctor, nurse, paramedic, or clerks… who also have different positions in al-Qassam”

“There are offices where the Hamas leader and two of the senior officials were. There’s a place where the soldier was in (the kidnapped soldier). There’s a place for the interrogators, internal security, and special security. All of them have private telephone lines inside the hospital”

“They [Hamas] have a private ambulance, even it color and the way it’s painted are different, and it doesn’t have a license plate. They used it to transport the soldier [kidnapped] and transport bodies… It didn’t assist us with transporting the injured”

https://twitter.com/mrconfino/status/1737111785923371516

 

Now hitting the press, where's the UN condemnation of these new revelations, although its not really new, its been known for weeks Hamas has been operating out of Hospitals and the medical staff have been complicit. Look no further than Al-Shifa.

 

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1737109113296077168

 

Israel posts doctor’s ‘Hamas confession’ after hospital arrests

Ahmed Kahlot, head of Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza, was detained last week along with 70 other medical staff. It followed the arrest last month of Mohammed Abu Salmiya, director of al-Shifa Hospital, Gaza’s largest.
In the face of protests, the Israel security agency Shin Bet released a video of Kahlot’s interrogation, in which he confesses to having been recruited and trained by Hamas in 2010. He says that 16 staff at the hospital were also from Hamas, and that Hamas officials had offices there.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-posts-doctors-hamas-confession-after-hospital-arrests-69zbsfn0t

https://archive.ph/SqFaN

 

Gaza hospital director admits Hamas used medical complex as operational hub

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-hospital-director-admits-hamas-used-medical-complex-as-operational-hub/

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Terrorists publishing more videos of hostages, elderly men, what about the women that you've sexually abused and refuse to release? <deleted> animals

 

source BBC

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

Seven arrested in Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands over suspected terrorism plots

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/seven-arrested-in-germany-denmark-the-netherlands-over-suspected-terrorism-plots/ar-AA1lvBTd

 

Four arrested in Europe over alleged cross-border Hamas terrorism plot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/14/four-arrested-in-europe-over-alleged-cross-border-hamas-terrorism-plot

 

Denmark widens terror investigation that coincides with arrests of alleged Hamas members in Germany

https://apnews.com/article/europe-terror-investigation-denmark-germany-hamas-netherlands-e85ba592202a80718c4c220d1fc55aa4

 

That's not a great way to secure and maintain political support.....

"That's not a great way to secure and maintain political support....."

 

Exactly, the more of that and the more Hamas will be condemned throughout the world on par with ISIS. Lets see how the Pro Palestine protestors use their Hamas flags on the streets after this.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

None of them support Hamas.

 

Political support for the Palestinian cause.

If you think act of terrorism on European soil do anything positive for it, we'll have to disagree.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

"That's not a great way to secure and maintain political support....."

 

Exactly, the more of that and the more Hamas will be condemned throughout the world on par with ISIS. Lets see how the Pro Palestine protestors use their Hamas flags on the streets after this.

 

It's not so much about Hamas - not like they are popular in the West (some protests and elements therein aside). The point is that such things tend to effect how the side is perceived, and so, might carry negative effect for the Palestinians in general. The same way them illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank effect Israel's image - even if they do not represent all of the Israeli public.

[Neeranam]

19 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

Palestinian Girl Killed in Israeli Attack on Maternity Ward (yahoo.com)

 

 

This Palestinian girl, Donia Abu Mohsen 13 years old, was injured in a previous Israeli attack few weeks ago and had both legs amputated. Her mother, father and two brothers were also killed in the earlier attack, and Mohsen was seeking treatment at the Nassar hospital. She was killed yesterday as a result of an Israeli bombing that targeted the medical complex. This hospital is now no longer operational.

 

An innocent injured orphaned child was not safe even in her hospital bed. Despicable crime and utter injustice. 

 

Those with no humanity left in them would still come out fast and blame Hamas for this disgusting crime. 

Tragic. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

19 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

She was killed yesterday as a result of an Israeli bombing that targeted the medical complex.

Why are they being allowed to bomb hospitals?

No one is safe, don't believe the Israeli lies. 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why are they being allowed to bomb hospitals?

No one is safe, don't believe the Israeli lies. 

Why aren't you telling WHO to stop Hamas using hospitals to wage their terror so that they can instead be used for their intended purposes, save lives?

 

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1737203422145720484

 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why are they being allowed to bomb hospitals?

No one is safe, don't believe the Israeli lies. 

 You have got to be trolling now 

A post above states that Hamas have been using hospitals as a command centre and a few posts later you ask why is Hamas allowed to bomb hospitals .

   You are asking a question that has just been answered 

[Bkk Brian]

NBC has uncovered information indicating Noa Argamani may not have been kidnapped by Hamas, but was instead most likely abducted by a mob of Gazans that swept into Israel hours after the initial attack.”

 

Noa Argamani became the face of the Nova music festival hostages

NBC News has uncovered information indicating she may not have been kidnapped by Hamas, but was instead most likely abducted by a mob of Gazans that swept into Israel hours after the initial attack. That may explain why she was not released during the November cease-fire: Hamas may not be holding her, or even know where she is.   

Argamani is among 14 female civilians who have yet to be released by their captors. More than two months after she was taken hostage, friends and family are growing more desperate to know her fate, and why she hasn’t been freed alongside about 100 others. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/noa-argamani-israel-hamas-hostages-nova-music-festival-rcna129792

 

Excellent vid on the investigation, worth a watch but heartbreaking, you have been warned.............

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

 

This desperate mother of a 19-year-old female hostage is screaming inside, and the whole world should be screaming in pain with her. Time is running out in the Hamas Terror Dungeons. #BringThemHomeNow.

 

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 You have got to be trolling now 

A post above states that Hamas have been using hospitals as a command centre and a few posts later you ask why is Hamas allowed to bomb hospitals .

   You are asking a question that has just been answered 

 

How do you mean 'trolling now' - it's basically all he does on these topics.

[Morch]

Cyprus says a joint operation with Mossad has foiled a suspected Iranian plot to kill Israelis

https://apnews.com/article/cyprus-israel-iran-mossad-plot-5f390cc785900f3f6600042779d54868

 

At least no trees were hit with hand grenades this time.

[Neeranam]

On 12/19/2023 at 4:35 PM, Danny Australia said:

Those with no humanity left in them would still come out fast and blame Hamas for this disgusting crime. 

You're not wrong there.