Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, it means he's mouth piece. It's what ambassadors do.

There was nothing said about IDF in my post.

He's not as full of Propagana as the UK Israel Embassador!!

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

OK. So do you believe the IDF tale about how the hostages got shot?

 

Tale how? You saying otherwise?

It sounds plausible, yes.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

He's not as full of Propagana as the UK Israel Embassador!!

 

And you would be the judge of that.....?

He's no different.

Comes with the job.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

OK. So do you believe the IDF tale about how the hostages got shot?

I do, so do parents:

 

“At the first opportunity,” Haim continued, “you are invited to come to us, whoever wants to. And we want to see you with our own eyes and hug you and tell you that what you did — however hard it is to say this, and sad — it was apparently the right thing in that moment."

 

‘Not your fault’: Mother sends love, support to troops who killed son in tragic error

Iris Haim, whose son Yotam was shot dead in error by IDF troops in northern Gaza, recorded a message on Wednesday for the soldiers who killed him, telling them that she and her family love them and do not blame them for his death.

Yotam, 28, was abducted by Hamas terrorists from Kibbutz Kfar Aza on October 7. He was shot dead, together with two other hostages, Alon Shamriz and Samar Talalka, by IDF troops who mistakenly identified them as a threat, in a tragic incident on December 15 that is the subject of an ongoing IDF investigation.

“And don’t hesitate for a second if you see a terrorist,” she urged. “Don’t think that you killed a hostage deliberately. You have to look after yourselves because only that way can you look after us.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/not-your-fault-mother-sends-love-support-to-troops-who-killed-son-in-tragic-error

[ozimoron]

Just now, Morch said:

Tale how? You saying otherwise?

It sounds plausible, yes.

 

So, I rest my case. You prefer to believe the account of how a soldier came to shoot 3 obviously unarmed men waving a white flag than the ambassador to the UK based on nothing more than your own biases. That's what I said.

[Morch]

Heh....

 

Quote

The General Union of Palestinian Students (GUPS) in the UK accused Zomlot of appointing several of his relatives to positions in the Palestinian embassy. The GUPS criticised Zomlot for calling the police to the Palestinian embassy, where they arrested a number of Palestinian students. GUPS said the embassy security staff had attacked the students prior to the arrival of the police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husam_Zomlot#Other_work

 

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

I do, so do parents:

 

“At the first opportunity,” Haim continued, “you are invited to come to us, whoever wants to. And we want to see you with our own eyes and hug you and tell you that what you did — however hard it is to say this, and sad — it was apparently the right thing in that moment."

 

‘Not your fault’: Mother sends love, support to troops who killed son in tragic error

Iris Haim, whose son Yotam was shot dead in error by IDF troops in northern Gaza, recorded a message on Wednesday for the soldiers who killed him, telling them that she and her family love them and do not blame them for his death.

Yotam, 28, was abducted by Hamas terrorists from Kibbutz Kfar Aza on October 7. He was shot dead, together with two other hostages, Alon Shamriz and Samar Talalka, by IDF troops who mistakenly identified them as a threat, in a tragic incident on December 15 that is the subject of an ongoing IDF investigation.

“And don’t hesitate for a second if you see a terrorist,” she urged. “Don’t think that you killed a hostage deliberately. You have to look after yourselves because only that way can you look after us.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/not-your-fault-mother-sends-love-support-to-troops-who-killed-son-in-tragic-error

 

Yes it was a tragic error, the tragedy being that the soldier wasn't properly trained or that there were no strict procedures in place. Pick one.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Heh....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husam_Zomlot#Other_work

 

Tried to get his relatives positions in government? Who would do such a heinous thing I wonder?

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Yes it was a tragic error, the tragedy being that the soldier wasn't properly trained or that there were no strict procedures in place. Pick one.

Yes a tragic error, and as I said, yes I believe the IDF which you were questioning.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

So, I rest my case. You prefer to believe the account of how a soldier came to shoot 3 obviously unarmed men waving a white flag than the ambassador to the UK based on nothing more than your own biases. That's what I said.

 

No, that would be you trolling.

It's not one vs. the other.

There is no alternative account of what happened in that incident in Gaza.

What an ambassador says is by definition propaganda.

 

I notice that in all that you still haven't addressed the original post made, before you hijacked the topic on your 'corruption' nonsense.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Yes it was a tragic error, the tragedy being that the soldier wasn't properly trained or that there were no strict procedures in place. Pick one.

 

Yes, and?

 

Not sure what your argument is. Poor training, lacking procedure, heat of battle, general confusion - it all amounts to the same thing. Stuff happens.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Yes, and?

 

Not sure what your argument is. Poor training, lacking procedure, heat of battle, general confusion - it all amounts to the same thing. Stuff happens.

 

And the main point being that stuff has been happening for a while now. This incident proved it.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Tried to get his relatives positions in government? Who would do such a heinous thing I wonder?

 

 

Never said it was heinous, just amusing in light of the high horse comments made earlier.

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

And the main point being that stuff has been happening for a while now. This incident proved it.

 

That's your opinion.

Not a fact.

I'm aware you have issues differentiating between the two.

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

So, I rest my case. You prefer to believe the account of how a soldier came to shoot 3 obviously unarmed men waving a white flag than the ambassador to the UK based on nothing more than your own biases. That's what I said.

I really don't undestand why he can't say he doesn't believe the IDF.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Life in Gaza before Hamas decided to slaughter more than 1000 Israeli civilians.

Was it worth it Hamas? Surrender now and spare the people of Gaza more suffering.

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I really don't undestand why he can't say he doesn't believe the IDF.

 

I really don't mind people defending Israel as I support their right to exist but I seek balance and will push back against propagandists that aren't capable of a credible, unbiased view based on evidence. And not to invoke "their credo is to wipe us out" as a rationale for war crimes. As abhorrent as that credo is it is not a rational for war crimes.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Life in Gaza before Hamas decided to slaughter more than 1000 Israeli civilians.

Was it worth it Hamas? Surrender now and spare the people of Gaza more suffering.

 

Who is he?

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I really don't mind people defending Israel as I support their right to exist but I seek balance and will push back against propagandists that aren't capable of a credible, unbiased view based on evidence. And not to invoke "their credo is to wipe us out" as a rationale for war crimes. As abhorrent as that credo is it is not a rational for war crimes.

 

You are not posting anything resembling a balanced view. Your posts are certainly one-sided.

I routinely provide credible sources, rather than rely on opinion presented as fact, which is your thing.

Nowhere did I invoke "their credo is to wipe us out" as a rationale for war crimes.

 

You live in an imaginary reality.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Morch

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are not posting anything resembling a balanced view. Your posts are certainly one-sided.

I routinely provide credible sources, rather than rely on opinion presented as facts, which is your thing.

Nowhere did I invoke "their credo is to wipe us out" as a rationale for war crimes.

 

You live in an imaginary reality.

 

What part of accusing both sides of war crimes is one sided? I wasn't necessarily referring to you and wasn't even replying to you. Obviously it hit a nerve. 

 

The fact is that I have seen that argument invoked so many times I don't know exactly who subscribes to it and who doesn't.

Edited December 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

Still lots of work to do and why the complete destruction of all the terror infrastructure needs to be carried out, this was going on before 7th Oct, and has carried on since, it was this that broke the last temporary ceasefire with the hostages after Hamas refused to let any more women go and this will never stop while Hamas is still around and capable.

 

Tel Aviv targeted with a rocket barrage from Gaza. Day 76.

 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I really don't mind people defending Israel as I support their right to exist but I seek balance and will push back against propagandists that aren't capable of a credible, unbiased view based on evidence. And not to invoke "their credo is to wipe us out" as a rationale for war crimes. As abhorrent as that credo is it is not a rational for war crimes.

unbiased view based on evidence.

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Still lots of work to do and why the complete destruction of all the terror infrastructure needs to be carried out, this was going on before 7th Oct, and has carried on since, it was this that broke the last temporary ceasefire with the hostages after Hamas refused to let any more women go and this will never stop while Hamas is still around and capable.

 

Tel Aviv targeted with a rocket barrage from Gaza. Day 76.

 

Is the whole of Gaza "terror infrastructure". It's a war crime to demolish civilian infrastructure.

[Jingthing]

Some Gazans are finally getting the REAL cause of their misery:

 

 

Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering - WSJ (archive.ph)

 

When news of the Oct. 7 attacks on southern Israel by Hamas militants reached Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, many took to the streets in celebration, distributing sweets and cheering fighters as they paraded hostages through the enclave.

Since then, however, quiet criticism has begun spreading against the militant group, with Gazans blaming the militants for having provoked Israel’s wrath and for their inability to shield the population from a devastating war and a humanitarian crisis that deepens by the day.

“People are dying every minute,” said a 56-year-old businessman from Gaza. “Hamas is the one that dragged us into this terrible vortex.”

Edited December 21, 2023 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

unbiased view based on evidence.

 

 

That's how I reached my conclusion that both sides were to blame.  Doesn't get less biased than that but keep trolling.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Some Gazans are finally getting the REAL cause of their misery:

 

Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering - WSJ

 

 

 

Paywall but that photo looks like carpet bombing to me, don't you agree?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Is the whole of Gaza "terror infrastructure". It's a war crime to demolish civilian infrastructure.

Read my post again and tell me where I even hinted that, oh that's right, I didn't, your trolling with another strawman. Any daily up date you immediately attack to deflect what's going on, ever tried contributing something to the actual topic? 

 

"Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War."

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Some Gazans are finally getting the REAL cause of their misery:

 

Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering - WSJ

 

 

 A lot more are blaming Israel.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That's how I reached my conclusion that both sides were to blame.  Doesn't get less biased than that but keep trolling.

Not seen you provide evidence though, just opinions, who's trolling, you make claims and have nothing to back them up

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some Gazans are finally getting the REAL cause of their misery:

 

Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering - WSJ

 

 

No Paywall version

 

Since then, however, quiet criticism has begun spreading against the militant group, with Gazans blaming the militants for having provoked Israel’s wrath and for their inability to shield the population from a devastating war and a humanitarian crisis that deepens by the day.
“People are dying every minute,” said a 56-year-old businessman from Gaza. “Hamas is the one that dragged us into this terrible vortex.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gazans-are-starting-to-blame-hamas-for-wartime-suffering-066256b0

https://archive.ph/rp63F