Israel and Hamas fight house-to-house battles across Gaza

[placnx]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That would be you spewing dishonest comments, again. The Hamas version, and what many Palestinians are into is exactly what's advertised - a Palestine without Israel. That you try and claim all protestors are of one view is nonsense, as you can neither support this or prove it. As for what you term 'Ben Gvir people' - I'm not aware that they actually use the phrase, regardless of their ideology. What I am sure of, is that if you bother to cite one side's extremists, but totally disregard and minimize the other side's guys - your not being honest.

Ben Gvir is the person in the cabinet, one of those representing settler interests, who openly stated his position without AFAIK using the phrase "river to the sea". Obviously there are exptrmists on the Palestinian side who think as you say, but the occupation from 1967 until 1987 was pretty calm. The failure of Oslo and Sharon's actions from 2000 inflamed the situation. I am speaking of protesters in the West, and there some are just chanting a slogan without knowing the underlying rationale, the one which I stated and which does not envision the killing or expulsion of Jewish citizens of Israel.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

Ben Gvir is the person in the cabinet, one of those representing settler interests, who openly stated his position without AFAIK using the phrase "river to the sea". Obviously there are exptrmists on the Palestinian side who think as you say, but the occupation from 1967 until 1987 was pretty calm. The failure of Oslo and Sharon's actions from 2000 inflamed the situation. I am speaking of protesters in the West, and there some are just chanting a slogan without knowing the underlying rationale, the one which I stated and which does not envision the killing or expulsion of Jewish citizens of Israel.

 

Oh, there are 'extremists' on the Palestinian side? Who would these be? Maybe the same group who instigated the 7/10 attack? The group ruling tGaza Strip? You seem to do your best not to discuss or name them. Not so when it comes to Israel, then it's full detail time....

 

As for your historical narrative - seems you forgot all about the Palestinian rejectionist position - them infamous three No's. Look it up if you don't know what these are.

 

Initially, you claimed protestors in the West had some koombaya 'one-state' solution in mind when chanting, now you move the goalposts to say that they do not have a clue about the underlying rationale. I think you're making things up, and cannot back them up with anything.

[placnx]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More nonsense out of you, as usual.

 

Where did I claim 'Israel is incapable'? Do you bother reading posts before replying? Do you understand who said what?

 

If anything, the other way around - Israel could definitely genocide the Palestinians, if it chose to do so. The fact that the Palestinians are very much about hints that there is no such 'genocide'.

 

As for 'over 20000 civilian deaths' - that would be you embracing Hamas propaganda. The figure includes Hamas men killed, and they are not 'civilians'.

Your comments and Jingthing's got mixed in my reply. Jingthing said: "Israel does have the technical capability to commit genocide." I somehow misread his comment to read that Israel did NOT have the capability. Sorry.

 

Not every man in Gaza is a Hamas fighter, and 20000 allows for a further number of actual fighters since the current official number is 23000 dead bodies counted with 7000 missing, presumably under the rubble.

 

Exactly, the case before the ICJ is whether the government of Israel and IDF is committing genocide, an intentional action. The preliminary response from the Court will probably come in a week or two.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

Your comments and Jingthing's got mixed in my reply. Jingthing said: "Israel does have the technical capability to commit genocide." I somehow misread his comment to read that Israel did NOT have the capability. Sorry.

 

Not every man in Gaza is a Hamas fighter, and 20000 allows for a further number of actual fighters since the current official number is 23000 dead bodies counted with 7000 missing, presumably under the rubble.

 

Exactly, the case before the ICJ is whether the government of Israel and IDF is committing genocide, an intentional action. The preliminary response from the Court will probably come in a week or two.

 

Yeah, and you still have no coherent answer for either comment. Fancy that.

 

No one said all the Gazans are Hamas fighters. Whether you want to cite 20,000 or 23,000 - estimates are that Hamas men killed are in the high thousands. I would guess similar proportions regarding those buried under the rubble. So what we remain with is you making a hasty comment lumping them all together and packaging them as 'civilians', and now waffling.

 

The current phase of the court proceedings is more about Israel actually committing 'genocide' but that it might, or that it's total actions might amount to something that can legally be defined as such. It's not quite what you advertise. Not sure what the 'exactly' bit was related to - then again, a whole lot of your posting seems confused.

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

My understanding of "river to the sea" is that protesters are evoking a one-state solution where all the people enjoy equal rights, not the case now, not even in Israel proper. On the other hand, the Ben Gvir people have in mind "river to the sea" with all Palestinians removed.

River to the sea means no more Israel and it's unbelievable that you don't know that.

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory baiting post and reply have been removed

[Bkk Brian]

"In recent weeks, there has been a significant drop in the rate of rocket fire from Gaza"

 

IDF says more than 700 Hamas rocket launchers destroyed since start of Gaza ground offensive

The IDF says ground troops have seized hundreds of rockets, including long-range projectiles, and located many launchers, as the military works to destroy Hamas’s rocket launch capabilities.

Together, ground troops and the IAF have destroyed more than 700 rocket launchers, the IDF says.

In recent weeks, there has been a significant drop in the rate of rocket fire from Gaza, which military officials attributed to Israel’s control of the ground and troops capturing Hamas’s rocket caches and launch sites.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-more-than-700-hamas-rocket-launchers-destroyed-since-start-of-gaza-ground-offensive/

[Bkk Brian]

IDF says it has completed operations in Khuza’a on outskirts of Khan Younis

The IDF has completed operations in southern Gaza’s Khuza’a, on the outskirts of Khan Younis, where troops of the 5th Reserve Brigade killed numerous Hamas operatives and destroyed the terror group’s infrastructure.

According to the IDF, the 5th Brigade demolished hundreds of Hamas sites in Khuza’a, including rocket launchers, observation posts, caches of weapons, around 40 tunnel shafts and major underground networks.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-it-has-completed-operations-in-khuzaa-on-outskirts-of-khan-younis/

[Nick Carter icp]

On 1/11/2024 at 9:53 AM, Neeranam said:

It's not going to end well for Israel, their mission is being watched by the wole world and only the US are now supporting them, which can only end up bad for them.

Sanctions like travel bans for Israeli and US citizens could be on the cards.

 

   German will intervene  at the ICJ and support Israel and state that there is no Palestinian genocide and Israel has the right to defend itself .

   Pakistan, Iran and Iraq will have to add Germans and Canadians to their list of banned travellers and placing sanctions on them :)

 

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-781960

 

 

Germany to intervene for Israel at ICJ; US, Canada say case is baseless

The United States, Canada, and Germany have expressed their support for Israel in the International Court of Justice's genocide hearing against Israel.

 

 

 

Germany will intervene on Israel’s behalf as a third party in the International Court of Justice’s genocide hearing against Israel, according to Steffen Hebestreit, the spokesman for Germany’s federal government.

 

In a Friday press release,  Hebestreit stated that while Germany supports the International Court of Justice in its work, it also supports Israel’s right to self-defense and rejects the ICJ’s accusation of genocide. 

 

“The federal government firmly rejects the accusation of genocide made against Israel. It has no basis whatsoever,” Hebestreit reiterated in a post X. 

 

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-781960

[Bkk Brian]

IDF releases footage of Gaza airstrike on Hamas cell armed with RPGs, assault rifles

The IDF releases footage showing the identification of a cell of Hamas operatives armed with RPGs and assault rifles in the central Gaza Strip, and a subsequent airstrike carried out against them.

According to the IDF, troops of the 179th Reserve Armored Brigade spotted the Hamas cell and ambushed them.

After the cell entered a structure the IDF says was used by Hamas as a command center, the reservists called in an airstrike, killing them and destroying the building.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-footage-of-gaza-airstrike-on-hamas-cell-armed-with-rpgs-assault-rifles/

 

[Amethyst]

A series of off-topic diversion posts have been removed. Please try to stay on-topic for the subject of this thread.

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

IDF releases footage of Gaza airstrike on Hamas cell armed with RPGs, assault rifles

The IDF releases footage showing the identification of a cell of Hamas operatives armed with RPGs and assault rifles in the central Gaza Strip, and a subsequent airstrike carried out against them.

According to the IDF, troops of the 179th Reserve Armored Brigade spotted the Hamas cell and ambushed them.

After the cell entered a structure the IDF says was used by Hamas as a command center, the reservists called in an airstrike, killing them and destroying the building.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-footage-of-gaza-airstrike-on-hamas-cell-armed-with-rpgs-assault-rifles/

 

May also want to take note, those terrorists killed in the video above. Hamas health Authority will count them as civilians and if there are any teenagers terrorists amongst then, age 17 years or so, they will be marked down as children killed.

[Morch]

CIA homes in on Hamas leadership, U.S. officials say

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/cia-homes-in-on-hamas-leadership-u-s-officials-say/

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Underneath the city of📍Khan Yunis, IDF troops exposed an underground tunnel confirmed to have held Israeli hostages. 

The tunnel was connected to an extensive network beneath a civilian area. Millions of shekels are estimated to have been invested in excavating the tunnel and equipping it with air ventilation systems, electrical supply and plumbing.

We will continue fighting to bring them HOME.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

New IDF data released. 

 

More than 9,000 Hamas operatives and fighters of other terror groups have been killed by the IDF in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war.

 

The media will fail to deduct this from the daily civilian death counts issued by Hamas of course.

[placnx]

On 1/12/2024 at 5:24 PM, Morch said:

 

Yeah, and you still have no coherent answer for either comment. Fancy that.

 

No one said all the Gazans are Hamas fighters. Whether you want to cite 20,000 or 23,000 - estimates are that Hamas men killed are in the high thousands. I would guess similar proportions regarding those buried under the rubble. So what we remain with is you making a hasty comment lumping them all together and packaging them as 'civilians', and now waffling.

 

The current phase of the court proceedings is more about Israel actually committing 'genocide' but that it might, or that it's total actions might amount to something that can legally be defined as such. It's not quite what you advertise. Not sure what the 'exactly' bit was related to - then again, a whole lot of your posting seems confused.

 

 

20,000 or 23,000 - we were not talking about Hamas fighters, but civilians. You were saying that Palestinian figures are unreliable. Historically the Palestinian (Hamas) Health Ministry figures in previous conflicts have been determined to be accurate by later verification. 

 

When you said that Israel was capable of genocide, I said "exactly".

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, placnx said:

20,000 or 23,000 - we were not talking about Hamas fighters, but civilians. You were saying that Palestinian figures are unreliable. Historically the Palestinian (Hamas) Health Ministry figures in previous conflicts have been determined to be accurate by later verification. 

 

When you said that Israel was capable of genocide, I said "exactly".

Wrong. 9000 of that figure are Hamas terrorists

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Wrong. 9000 of that figure are Hamas terrorists

 

so 14,000 Palestinian civilians including thousands of children

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

so 14,000 Palestinian civilians including thousands of children

You can substract, correct, according to Hamas

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

You can substract, correct, according to Hamas

 a war crime.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 a war crime.

Can you provide a evidence and a credible link to that claim?

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Can you provide a evidence and a credible link to that claim?

 

provided hundreds of times. South Africa has complained to the ICJ about genocide. Genocide is a war crime. See the video of Noam Chomsky speaking on the genocide thread.  I challenge you to watch it all.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

provided hundreds of times. South Africa has complained to the ICJ about genocide. Genocide is a war crime. See the video of Noam Chomsky speaking on the genocide thread.  I challenge you to watch it all.

Nonsense, your claim:

 

17 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 a war crime.

Again provide evidence and a credible link to that claim. The SA complaint constitutes nothing but an allegation. 

 

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

20,000 or 23,000 - we were not talking about Hamas fighters, but civilians. You were saying that Palestinian figures are unreliable. Historically the Palestinian (Hamas) Health Ministry figures in previous conflicts have been determined to be accurate by later verification. 

 

When you said that Israel was capable of genocide, I said "exactly".

 

These would be total casualties, including Hamas men. You insist on lumping them all together as civilians. Since this was discussed numerous times, including in comments to your posts - I guess you're bent on misrepresenting things, rather than discussing facts. The total may be accurate, but the figures released by Hamas do not differentiate between civilians and combatants until the fighting is over.

 

What you say is meaningless. People get killed in wars, civilians too. That doesn't turn each and every war into a genocide, and this one is no exception. Other than in your mind and posts, that is.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 a war crime.

 

 

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

provided hundreds of times. South Africa has complained to the ICJ about genocide. Genocide is a war crime. See the video of Noam Chomsky speaking on the genocide thread.  I challenge you to watch it all.

 

@ozimoron

 

You keep making these nonsense posts, over and over again - maybe you really don't get it, maybe you're too immersed in the Hamas narrative, maybe you hope repetition will make it stick. I don't know, I don't really care.

 

You do not get to call what are war crimes, and as there is/was no official investigation regarding such, all you have to offer are opinions and hot air. That you try to present these as decided facts is dishonest. That you do so despite being shown that this is incorrect, is despicable.

 

You have not provided any support. Complaints, including by South Africa, are not 'it', and even South Africa's complain was not decided yet. Moreover, it will not be decided for years to come, even if the court does issue some injunction. You know all this, and still spew the propaganda. Chomsky does not decide what's a war crime and what's not. I challenge to to prove he is.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, placnx said:

20,000 or 23,000 - we were not talking about Hamas fighters, but civilians. You were saying that Palestinian figures are unreliable. Historically the Palestinian (Hamas) Health Ministry figures in previous conflicts have been determined to be accurate by later verification. 

 

When you said that Israel was capable of genocide, I said "exactly".

There is a simple answer to the numbers. Israel should allow independent journalists in to verify the numbers, but apparently israel isn't allowing any in, and even if they did, they would be at risk of being killed, given the large numbers of Gazan journalists been killed, apparently in targeted strikes.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a simple answer to the numbers. Israel should allow independent journalists in to verify the numbers, but apparently israel isn't allowing any in, and even if they did, they would be at risk of being killed, given the large numbers of Gazan journalists been killed, apparently in targeted strikes.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Verify how? With whom? The same Ministry of Health controlled by Hamas?

Your beloved AJ got reporters in the Gaza Strip, does any of them do any 'verification' such as you suggest?

 

 

[ozimoron]

The video released on Monday shows a woman named as Noa Argamani, speaking under duress and saying that two men with whom she had been held had been killed in captivity.

 

She says the men - one of whom was identified as Itay Svirsky, 38 - were killed by "our own IDF strikes", referring to the Israel Defense Forces.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67987097

[ozimoron]

15 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nonsense, your claim:

 

Again provide evidence and a credible link to that claim. The SA complaint constitutes nothing but an allegation.

 

It is an allegation, yes. Did I claim otherwise?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

The video released on Monday shows a woman named as Noa Argamani, speaking under duress and saying that two men with whom she had been held had been killed in captivity.

 

She says the men - one of whom was identified as Itay Svirsky, 38 - were killed by "our own IDF strikes", referring to the Israel Defense Forces.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67987097

Amazing how the terrorists predicted their deaths:

 

Hamas has issued a new video purporting to show the bodies of two Israeli hostages, with the militants claiming that they died in air strikes on Gaza.

It comes a day after Hamas released another video of the hostages when they were alive, but warning they could die if Israel continued its bombardment.

Israel denied they were killed by strikes. Its defence minister accused the militants of "psychological abuse".