The Children of Gaza = More than 7000 Killed.

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Exactly, US presidents choose their words carefully, yet some here adamantly say there are no war crimes being comitted, it's bizarre. It's disgusting.

7000+ children OMG

Kids terrorist training camp anyone?

 

Hamas Kids Terrorist Training Camps

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Kids terrorist training camp anyone?

 

Hamas Kids Terrorist Training Camps

 

Apart from the burning Israeli flag which is a legitimate form of protest there's no indication these kids are being trained as terrorists. It reminds me a lot of my sea cadet training.  I see propaganda.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Apart from the burning Israeli flag which is a legitimate form of protest there's no indication these kids are being trained as terrorists. It reminds me a lot of my sea cadet training.  I see propaganda.

Really, how many do you want to see? Did your sea cadet training also include launching rockets, how to use RPG's and automatic machine guns?

 

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Really, how many do you want to see? Did your sea cadet training also include launching rockets, how to use RPG's and automatic machine guns?

 

Better than that, I got to fire Bofors 40mm cannons and L2A2's. I want to see evidence that these kids are not just doing mil training, just like their peers in Israel. Can we see some vids of Israeli kids doing mil training too? Just for balance?

[rickudon]

If Israel's bombing of Gaza is legitimate, then the USA after the twin towers attack could have legitimately committed genocide in Afghanistan? You cannot destroy Hamas by bombing civilians (unless you intend killing all Gaza residents).  Israel admits it's invasion will take months - meanwhile Palestine civilians are being bombed, starved, are dying from lack of medical treatment and at risk of epidemics of water born disease. What aid is Israel providing? When this invasion is over, Gaza will be a wasteland. And will Israel accept responsibility for that? I doubt it. Probably expect the UN/USA/Europe to deal with it.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Better than that, I got to fire Bofors 40mm cannons and L2A2's. I want to see evidence that these kids are not just doing mil training, just like their peers in Israel. Can we see some vids of Israeli kids doing mil training too? Just for balance?

Rubbish, they are receiving terrorist training, keep your head in the sand apologist. They start them early........

 

Chilling footage of kindergartners re-enacting terrorist drills in Gaza

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

54 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Rubbish, they are receiving terrorist training, keep your head in the sand apologist. They start them early........

 

Can't get past anybody having more than one eye can you? Makes your head explode by the look of the insults that fly.

[Morch]

US Presidents Choose Their Words Carefully, Claims Poster.

 

Yeah, so Trump.....

 

And again, amusing to see posters who usually go on about how Biden says odd stuff, makes mistakes, forget things etc. suddenly change their tune.

[ozimoron]

France said, on Wednesday, that the European Union should consider sanctions on Israeli settlers who have targeted Palestinians in the West Bank as an option and that talks at the EU to impose sanctions on Hamas commanders were progressing, Reuters reports.

 

UN figures show that daily settler attacks have more than doubled since Hamas’s surprise attack on Israel on 7 October and the ensuing assault on the Palestinian enclave of Gaza. More than 200 Palestinians have been killed in the violence this year.

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-france-opens-door-to-eu-talks-on-israel-settler-sanctions/

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

If Israel's bombing of Gaza is legitimate, then the USA after the twin towers attack could have legitimately committed genocide in Afghanistan? You cannot destroy Hamas by bombing civilians (unless you intend killing all Gaza residents).  Israel admits it's invasion will take months - meanwhile Palestine civilians are being bombed, starved, are dying from lack of medical treatment and at risk of epidemics of water born disease. What aid is Israel providing? When this invasion is over, Gaza will be a wasteland. And will Israel accept responsibility for that? I doubt it. Probably expect the UN/USA/Europe to deal with it.

 

That would be you using a flaws argument, and a loaded proposition ('genocide' - this ain't it). The USA is thousands of miles from Afghanistan. The likelihood of another attack was rather low. Israel's situation is different, even if you do not factor the 7/10 atrocities and the hostages taken. It's literally over the fence.

 

Yes, there are a lot of civilian casualties. This happens when fighting insurgents/terrorists in densely populated urban areas. There's not much getting around that. Part of the reason them groups choose these settings. War is not pretty.

 

But as usual with some posters, there's only one side to it that gets blamed for it all - Israel Bad. There was no bombing, destruction and death in the Gaza Strip on the morning of 7/10.

 

I'm yet to hear plausible ideas and suggestions regarding how Israel should go about things now or what it could have done differently after the Hamas attack. Note that I'm talking about realistic stuff, not the fantasy fare usually dished on these 'discussions'.

 

Also missing is an acknowledgement that this war (not the entire conflict) was started by Hamas. And that Hamas went into this knowing full well what the consequences will be. Same goes for acknowledging Hamas treats Palestinian civilians as 'necessary sacrifices', refrains from providing them shelter its men enjoy, and refuses to end this.

 

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

France said, on Wednesday, that the European Union should consider sanctions on Israeli settlers who have targeted Palestinians in the West Bank as an option and that talks at the EU to impose sanctions on Hamas commanders were progressing, Reuters reports.

 

UN figures show that daily settler attacks have more than doubled since Hamas’s surprise attack on Israel on 7 October and the ensuing assault on the Palestinian enclave of Gaza. More than 200 Palestinians have been killed in the violence this year.

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-france-opens-door-to-eu-talks-on-israel-settler-sanctions/

 

 

They are following the USA's example, and more power to them.

That doesn't have a whole lot to do with this topic though, there's a parallel one dealing with things in the West Bank.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

They are following the USA's example, and more power to them.

That doesn't have a whole lot to do with this topic though, there's a parallel one dealing with things in the West Bank.

 

It's got a real lot to do with Hamas' motivation.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

If Israel's bombing of Gaza is legitimate, then the USA after the twin towers attack could have legitimately committed genocide in Afghanistan?

Look at what they did to Iraq and they never harmed the US! 

It is always about oil or religion with the US war machine. 

They now declare Israel are bombing indescriminately but can't lose face by pulling support. 

 

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's got a real lot to do with Hamas' motivation.

 

I doubt you know what you're talking about.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I doubt you know what you're talking about.

 

What? Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you seriously doubt that the settlements have a direct connection with Hamas terrorism?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

What? Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you seriously doubt that the settlements have a direct connection with Hamas terrorism?

 

You're trying very hard to make the link you posted relevant to this topic (see the headline?) and to Hamas in general.

You fail at both, so you move the goalposts. It's how you roll.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Better than that, I got to fire Bofors 40mm cannons and L2A2's. I want to see evidence that these kids are not just doing mil training, just like their peers in Israel. Can we see some vids of Israeli kids doing mil training too? Just for balance?

This guy is trying to justify the slaughter of 7000 + children in a couple of months by posting propaganda videos. They're is nothing to say they are being trained in anything other than an army. 

Speaks volumes. 

[Morch]

For posters who missed it, Hamas is designated a terrorist organization by the following:

 

The EU, Australia, Canada, Japan, the UK, the USA, and the OAS, and Israel, of course. Lest we forget, New Zealand designates the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization, and if memory serves there was talk of applying this to Hamas in it's entirety following 7/10.

 

Countries that support Hamas (to varying degrees) include such beacons of democracy and justice as: Iran (including proxies in Iraq, Lebanon and Yemen), Qatar, North Korea, China, and Russia. 

 

Just sayin'....

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

For posters who missed it, Hamas is designated a terrorist organization by the following:

 

The EU, Australia, Canada, Japan, the UK, the USA, and the OAS, and Israel, of course. Lest we forget, New Zealand designates the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization, and if memory serves there was talk of applying this to Hamas in it's entirety following 7/10.

 

Countries that support Hamas (to varying degrees) include such beacons of democracy and justice as: Iran (including proxies in Iraq, Lebanon and Yemen), Qatar, North Korea, China, and Russia. 

 

Just sayin'....

 

 

 

Your point is that Israel has not been designated a terrorist organisation and is therefore absolved of guilt? Is that your meme?

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Your point is that Israel has not been designated a terrorist organisation and is therefore absolved of guilt? Is that your meme?

 

No. That's something that you try to sneak in. It's how you roll.

People refer to Hamas actions as if it was an 'army', or as if them videos above are legit.

Just providing context.

 

Sympathizing with Hamas, expressing understanding to it's motivations, ways of operating, choices made and so on? That's something usually taken by leaderships of countries on the second list. All that 'resistance movement', 'freedom fighter' stuff - same, second list.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No. That's something that you try to sneak in. It's how you roll.

People refer to Hamas actions as if it was an 'army', or as if them videos above are legit.

Just providing context.

 

Sympathizing with Hamas, expressing understanding to it's motivations, ways of operating, choices made and so on? That's something usually taken by leaderships of countries on the second list. All that 'resistance movement', 'freedom fighter' stuff - same, second list.

 

Hamas is not an army only because Palestine is not a country. No other reason. You are intent on playing semantics with hostages, prisoners, terrorists and soldiers. Not productive at all. It's all about blame, not finding a solution. A complete Hamas surrender isn't going to happen without Israel being consigned to pariah status for generations. There has to be a negotiated settlement to end this

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Hamas is not an army only because Palestine is not a country. No other reason. You are intent on playing semantics with hostages, prisoners, terrorists and soldiers. Not productive at all. It's all about blame, not finding a solution. A complete Hamas surrender isn't going to happen without Israel being consigned to pariah status for generations. There has to be a negotiated settlement to end this

 

No, you are mistaken again.

 

A Palestinian State may or may not have an army, but it will not be Hamas. The same way Hezbollah is not the Lebanese Army.

 

As for 'no other reason' - this it again one of your nonsense statements. Countries designating Hamas as a terrorist did so after reviewing its action and agenda. That you decide otherwise carries absolutely no weight whatsoever.

 

I am not playing any semantic games. You don't seem to accept facts. And the fact is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. You wish to deny terrorists and terrorist organizations exist, that might float in your imaginary world, not in reality.

 

As for 'all about blame', most of what you and the rest are into is exactly that - blame. None of you can actually articulate something coming close to a solution, while keeping in touch with reality. The closing remarks of your post above demonstrate both. It's Israel's fault, and up to Israel to solve, with no less than 'negotiations'. Negotiations with whom? About what? Why would anyone with a clue expect Israel's right-wing government to do so? What is the Hamas position?....and so on and so forth. Them things that are real, as opposed to your contrived fantasies.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

No, you are mistaken again.

 

A Palestinian State may or may not have an army, but it will not be Hamas. The same way Hezbollah is not the Lebanese Army.

 

As for 'no other reason' - this it again one of your nonsense statements. Countries designating Hamas as a terrorist did so after reviewing its action and agenda. That you decide otherwise carries absolutely no weight whatsoever.

 

I am not playing any semantic games. You don't seem to accept facts. And the fact is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. You wish to deny terrorists and terrorist organizations exist, that might float in your imaginary world, not in reality.

 

As for 'all about blame', most of what you and the rest are into is exactly that - blame. None of you can actually articulate something coming close to a solution, while keeping in touch with reality. The closing remarks of your post above demonstrate both. It's Israel's fault, and up to Israel to solve, with no less than 'negotiations'. Negotiations with whom? About what? Why would anyone with a clue expect Israel's right-wing government to do so? What is the Hamas position?....and so on and so forth. Them things that are real, as opposed to your contrived fantasies.

 

More projection. I have never denied that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Quite the opposite. Get your ducks in a row.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

More projection. I have never denied that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Quite the opposite. Get your ducks in a row.

 

No projection. Here is what you posted:

 

Quote

Hamas is not an army only because Palestine is not a country. No other reason.

 

I think Hamas is a terrorist organization because of its agenda and actions.

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No projection. Here is what you posted:

 

I think Hamas is a terrorist organization because of its agenda and actions.

 

As it stands, Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Were it a sovereign state like Israel, maybe there would be a different terminology applied. Or maybe not, depending on who was speaking. The point is that you can't slide a razor blade in between what Hamas has done and Israel is doing in terms of human rights abuses and war crimes. The leaders of both need to face the ICC. Soon.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Hamas is not an army only because Palestine is not a country. No other reason. You are intent on playing semantics with hostages, prisoners, terrorists and soldiers. Not productive at all. It's all about blame, not finding a solution. A complete Hamas surrender isn't going to happen without Israel being consigned to pariah status for generations. There has to be a negotiated settlement to end this

Huh?
Why would Hamas whose ideology is KILL ALL JEWS surrender to an Israel that was so weakened as you describe? Bizarre post above.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

As it stands, Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Were it a sovereign state like Israel, maybe there would be a different terminology applied. Or maybe not, depending on who was speaking. The point is that you can't slide a razor blade in between what Hamas has done and Israel is doing in terms of human rights abuses and war crimes. The leaders of both need to face the ICC. Soon.

 

Hamas is not Palestine. And if Palestinians chose Hamas to be their representative, without a change in its agenda and ideology, there will be no Palestinian State. Hamas agenda is not about negotiations, peace or sharing. You insist on treating it as a legit player - it is not.

 

The point is that you try to legitimize Hamas, and/or to de-legitimize Israel. You keep making them pronouncements as if they are facts. They are not. The equivalency you wish for is not generally accepted. It's not same same in the real world.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Hamas is not Palestine. And if Palestinians chose Hamas to be their representative, without a change in its agenda and ideology, there will be no Palestinian State. Hamas agenda is not about negotiations, peace or sharing. You insist on treating it as a legit player - it is not.

 

The point is that you try to legitimize Hamas, and/or to de-legitimize Israel. You keep making them pronouncements as if they are facts. They are not. The equivalency you wish for is not generally accepted. It's not same same in the real world.

 

My posts are my opinions unless stated otherwise or linked to an article. I am. not deligitmising Israel, I'm accusing it of war crimes. The case for a Palestinian state is unassailable. Whether it's ruled by Hamas or the PLO or some other outfit is a matter for them.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

My posts are my opinions unless stated otherwise or linked to an article. I am. not deligitmising Israel, I'm accusing it of war crimes. The case for a Palestinian state is unassailable. Whether it's ruled by Hamas or the PLO or some other outfit is a matter for them.

 

You state your 'opinions' as facts.

The 'war crimes' bit was addressed numerous times by now, somehow doesn't seem to register that your accusation does not mean much, and that your grasp of what 'war crimes' are, and how such things are decided, is lacking.

 

Unassailable maybe in your mind. In the real world, Palestinians will not have a state led by Hamas in its current form. Remember that list of countries designating Hamas as a terrorist organization - yeah, so that's not on. Banging on about 'up to them' is exactly the sort of unrealistic nonsense that's prevalent in these topics.

 

Hamas had well over a decade to demonstrate that it cannot rule anything much. Somehow you think it reasonable Israel (and all them countries in the first list) will accept Hamas having a much larger base of operations, less restrictions and so on. Live the dream, is all I can say.

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

My posts are my opinions unless stated otherwise or linked to an article. I am. not deligitmising Israel, I'm accusing it of war crimes. The case for a Palestinian state is unassailable. Whether it's ruled by Hamas or the PLO or some other outfit is a matter for them.

There isn't going to be a two state solution by magic. Currently, NEITHER side wants that, and this current war has made things considerably worse (and it's not over).