As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[placeholder]

The U.S. proposal warns Israel against invading Rafah.

The United States is negotiating a U.N. Security Council Resolution that proposes a temporary cease-fire “as soon as practicable” and warns Israel against invading an area of southern Gaza that many people have fled to, according to a copy of the draft obtained by The New York Times.

https://archive.ph/PA9p5

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/20/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The U.S. proposal warns Israel against invading Rafah.

The United States is negotiating a U.N. Security Council Resolution that proposes a temporary cease-fire “as soon as practicable” and warns Israel against invading an area of southern Gaza that many people have fled to, according to a copy of the draft obtained by The New York Times.

https://archive.ph/PA9p5

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/20/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news

Also includes the "release of hostages as a key condition for the ceasefire."

 

There's already a topic running on it here:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1320352-us-proposes-security-council-resolution-backing-temporary-ceasefire-to-stymie-rafah-push/

 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, Hamas committed a war crime when they took the hostages. Yes, they are terrorists. And, yes, I post what I think Hamas might consider to assure the safe release of the hostages. As I said above, they aren't just going to hand them over and say, "Excuse me." They'll want something in return.

 

 

   Criminal acts shouldn't be rewarded , ransoms shouldn't be paid to free hostages 

[WDSmart]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Also includes the "release of hostages as a key condition for the ceasefire."

 

There's already a topic running on it here:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1320352-us-proposes-security-council-resolution-backing-temporary-ceasefire-to-stymie-rafah-push/

 

The problem here are the adjectives used to describe the ceasefire and the release of the hostages. This will only be accepted by Hamas if they are coupled as "temporary" and "partial," or "permanent" and "total." 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

The problem here are the adjectives used to describe the ceasefire and the release of the hostages. This will only be accepted by Hamas if they are coupled as "temporary" and "partial," or "permanent" and "total." 

You can discuss the adjectives in the topic for it, I'm not interested with them here.

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Sometimes, theory becomes fact. This was also known about over a year ago.
Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan Over a Year Ago - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Unbelievable, no wonder the Israelis with dead friends and relatives are mad with the government. 

One has to wonder why they let this attack happen. I will keep my many thoughts to myself ....

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:02 PM, Arindos said:

Why do you consider the Arabs to be the victims of oppressions when it's traditionally and continues to be the the Arabs being the oppressors?

You need to provide some proof of that, as I have no knowledge of that since the end of the European Dark ages.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 5:02 PM, Arindos said:

Can you name a European country that has gone on to colonise other countries since WWII?

There weren't any left to colonise by that time, but even though they officially left and granted many countries "independence" they still interfered in those countries. One only has to look at France and it's interference in it's former African colonies to see that.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 5:02 PM, Arindos said:

The Arabs certainly had imperialist ambitions up until at least WWI so the gap of the interwar period is not sufficient to placate your argument that European imperialism was somehow worse than Arab imperialism.

 

Imperialist ambitions

You need to provide some examples of that, as I am not aware of such. They wanted Britain out of their countries though eg Egypt.

 

the gap of the interwar period is not sufficient to placate your argument that European imperialism was somehow worse than Arab imperialism.

You must be confusing me with some other poster as I doubt I said anything like that.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:02 PM, Arindos said:

Israel has been there since ancient times

Not since the Romans expelled the Jews.

 

Since then it's been occupied by different peoples.

 

On the basis that if a certain people occupied the land 2,000 years ago they still own it now, the English should give their land back to the Celts.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:54 PM, WDSmart said:

So, now, I think we're back to the structure of a solution I proposed weeks ago - Hamas could agree to a staged release of the hostages based on reciprocal stages involving a ceasefire and then talks on a two-state solution by Israel. 

I disagree. Once they release all the hostages they have nothing to stop the israelis resuming the slaughter. They need at least a permanent ceasefire and a peacekeeping force not controlled by israel or America in Gaza, plus an end to the blockade.

They would be foolish to accept the word of netanyahu or trust the US. The US just vetoed the latest Security Council resolution calling for a ceasefire- the only country to do so. Even the UK has seen the writing on the wall and abstained

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/20/us-vetoes-un-resolution-ceasefire-israel-gaza

US vetoes Arab-backed UN resolution demanding ceasefire in Gaza

Vote in 15-member security council was 13-1 with UK abstaining, making it the US’s third veto of such a resolution

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:23 PM, WDSmart said:

...and what is the alternative?

- A continuation of the attacks on Gaza by Israel with attempts to rescue the hostages?
- Hamas then resorting to killing the hostages when any rescue attempt is close to succeeding?

What mayhem and chaos would result from that, not just for Israel and Palestine but for the entire Middle East, and maybe even worldwide?

 

With the latest israeli attacks deep into Lebanon, and the Houthis attacking British as well as American ships, the conflict is already becoming a regional conflict. It's not too late to end the impending all out war, but that depends on the US forcing israel to stop attacking Gaza, and I see zero chance of that happening. It's like one of those nightmares where one sees the truck running into one in slow motion and is unable to move.

[Bkk Brian]

A Hamas official based in Qatar tells the Reuters news agency that the group estimated it had lost 6,000 fighters during the four-month-old conflict, about half the 12,000 Israel says it has killed.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/in-first-acknowledgement-of-significant-losses-hamas-official-says-some-6000-operatives-killed-in-gaza-fighting/

[mooping20Baht]

sadly Israeli could have been a refuge for all Jews, not just European/West Jews.

Instead from the beginning, it became an apartheid state, excluding even Middle Eastern Jews from full citizenship.

and a fortress against all arabs, especially those who sought to retain their rights& lands,

it needs to return to genuine ideals that it espouses only for Western Jews. IMO

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, mooping20Baht said:

sadly Israeli could have been a refuge for all Jews, not just European/West Jews.

Instead from the beginning, it became an apartheid state, excluding even Middle Eastern Jews from full citizenship.

and a fortress against all arabs, especially those who sought to retain their rights& lands,

it needs to return to genuine ideals that it espouses only for Western Jews. IMO

Sadly the Palestinian people could have been living a palatial lifestyle by the kind (and as we know now...foolish) donations of other countries, instead of living like kings they chose to live like moles. Not the best choice they have ever made! 

Are you including Egypt in your definition of "apartheid", let's face it not even the Arab countries want them or is that Israels fault too? 😕

Edited February 21 by Wobblybob

[sirineou]

Quote

US vetoes call for immediate Gaza ceasefire at UN

"Thirteen countries on the 15-member body backed Algeria's resolution, while the UK abstained. "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68346027

 

The three amigos, partners in crime.  

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

"Thirteen countries on the 15-member body backed Algeria's resolution, while the UK abstained. "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68346027

 

The three amigos, partners in crime.  

 

 

15 - 13 =  2 ….. shame you didn’t finish school

[sirineou]

11 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

15 - 13 =  2 ….. shame you didn’t finish school

Same you are a...... 

one abstained guess who, I will save you the trouble the US's lapdog. 

Guess why? because you only need one Veto. no need for the UK to expose themselves by voting, 

Since you finished school, could you please do the math for poor old me who did not finish. 

Edited February 21 by sirineou

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Same you are a...... 

one abstained guess who, I will save you the rouble te US's lapdog. 

Guess why? because you only need one Veto. no need for the UK to expose themselves by voting, 

Since you finished school, could you please do the math for poor old be who did not finish. 

 

This is an English language forum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is an English language forum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

confirmation that you are a............

[Bkk Brian]

42 minutes ago, sirineou said:

"Thirteen countries on the 15-member body backed Algeria's resolution, while the UK abstained. "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68346027

 

The three amigos, partners in crime.  

A security council resolution that is not adopted versus one that has, ie to release the hostages immediately with no pre-conditions, have you made any criticisms of Hamas not abiding by that? Don't you think that the proposed US resolution that calls for a ceasefire and release of hostages is better?

https://aseannow.com/topic/1320352-us-proposes-security-council-resolution-backing-temporary-ceasefire-to-stymie-rafah-push

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hardly a war ( except in israeli propaganda ) when one side has all the tanks, artillery, navy and air force, and the other has rifles and RPGs.

It's just a slaughter of a people with nothing to protect them.

 

Well, it was the legitimate, elected government of Gaza that declared war on Israel on 7th October 2023. It is the responsibility of the government of Gaza to protect the civilians that elected them; however, they can’t really do that when they are all hiding 40 or 50 meters underneath the people they are supposed to protect; but you knew that already didn’t you.

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Since you finished school, could you please do the math for poor old me who did not finish.

 

With pleasure, in very simple terms for you; there are 15 members of the UN security council, and on this resolution, 13 members voted for, one voted against, and one abstained. So, if you deduct 13 from 15 you are left with 2 … not the three that you bizarrely claimed.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Well, it was the legitimate, elected government of Gaza that declared war on Israel on 7th October 2023. It is the responsibility of the government of Gaza to protect the civilians that elected them; however, they can’t really do that when they are all hiding 40 or 50 meters underneath the people they are supposed to protect; but you knew that already didn’t you.

 

Really bad amateur lawyering. If anyone is responsible it's the occupying power. Your claim that a government that is under active attack and no longer functioning is responsible is transparently ridiculous.

[placeholder]

How Israel’s war went wrong

At the end of November, Israeli reporter Yuval Abraham broke one of the most important stories of the war in Gaza to date — an inside look at the disturbing reasoning that has led the Israeli military to kill so many civilians.

Citing conversations with “seven current and former members of Israel’s intelligence community,” Abraham reported that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) had changed its doctrine to permit far greater civilian casualties than it would have tolerated in previous wars...

“In one case,” Abraham reported, “the Israeli military command knowingly approved the killing of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in an attempt to assassinate a single top Hamas military commander.”

https://www.vox.com/24055522/israel-hamas-gaza-war-strategy-netanyahu-strategy-morality

 

‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals.

Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war — which Israel has named “Operation Iron Swords,” and which began in the wake of the Hamas-led assault on southern Israel on October 7 — has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature. These include private residences as well as public buildings, infrastructure, and high-rise blocks, which sources say the army defines as “power targets” (“matarot otzem”).

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

 

Power targets are designated as such because, the reasoning goes, the destruction they wreak on civilians will make them pressure Hamas and undermine it. This is not a new designation.

What is new is that the Israelis are not using the methods that they used to use to warn civilians that their homes, including high-rises, are about to be destroyed.

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

51 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really bad amateur lawyering. If anyone is responsible it's the occupying power. Your claim that a government that is under active attack and no longer functioning is responsible is transparently ridiculous.

Even more ridiculous is a government that states civilians are there to sacrifice whether they like it or not.

 

“We are called a nation of martyrs,” said another top Hamas official, Ghazi Hamad. “And we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.” He promised more attacks: “There will be a second, a third, a fourth.” When asked whether he sought the annihilation of Israel, Hamad matter-of-factly replied, “Yes, of course.”

 

One, Moussa Abu Marzouk, a prominent member of the Hamas political bureau, was asked in an interview why Hamas built over 300 miles of tunnels in the Gaza Strip but has never built bomb shelters for Gazan civilians. 

 

Human sacrifice is central to Hamas’s strategy

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Even more ridiculous is a government that states civilians are there to sacrifice whether they like it or not.

 

“We are called a nation of martyrs,” said another top Hamas official, Ghazi Hamad. “And we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.” He promised more attacks: “There will be a second, a third, a fourth.” When asked whether he sought the annihilation of Israel, Hamad matter-of-factly replied, “Yes, of course.”

 

One, Moussa Abu Marzouk, a prominent member of the Hamas political bureau, was asked in an interview why Hamas built over 300 miles of tunnels in the Gaza Strip but has never built bomb shelters for Gazan civilians. 

 

Human sacrifice is central to Hamas’s strategy

Deflecting much? Most legal opinion holds that Israel is the occupying and has been since 1967.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Deflecting much? Most legal opinion holds that Israel is the occupying and has been since 1967.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/

Deflecting nothing, stating what the Hamas government themselves said about the civilians or should I say martyrs.

 

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1719718109739688143

 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Deflecting nothing, stating what the Hamas government themselves said about the civilians or should I say martyrs.

 

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1719718109739688143

 

More irrelevancy from you. Eloquent piligrim claimed that Hamas is currently responsible for protecting gazans because it is the government. Hamas is no longer in power. By most standards, Israel is the occupying power and as such is responsible.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Well, it was the legitimate, elected government of Gaza that declared war on Israel on 7th October 2023. It is the responsibility of the government of Gaza to protect the civilians that elected them; however, they can’t really do that when they are all hiding 40 or 50 meters underneath the people they are supposed to protect; but you knew that already didn’t you.

 

Well, it was illegitimately kept in power in part by Israeli govt policy designed to keep Hamas in power as a counterweight to the AP. Maybe the IDF should bomb the offices of the Israeli government?

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

More irrelevancy from you. Eloquent piligrim claimed that Hamas is currently responsible for protecting gazans because it is the government. Hamas is no longer in power. By most standards, Israel is the occupying power and as such is responsible.

I don't think its irrelevant at all. Hamas is using the population as human shields which is a war crime

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Hamas is no longer in power

 

Really, fantastic news; when did the population of Gaza overthrow their elected government, who have they been replaced with, and does that mean that they have released all the hostages ?