Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[WDSmart]

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Is that just what you think that Hamas want , what you think they probably want ?

But you don't actually know what Hamas are demanding , its just what you think .

You just made it up 

I heard that on CNN, that Hamas was demanding a "permanent" ceasefire and withdrawal of troops. I'm sure there are other conditions, just as Israel can propose other conditions. But a "permanent" ceasefire is one that CNN has reported.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, if they want the hostages back. But, they don't have to say "Hamas has won." They have already bombed and killed 10s of thousands of Palestinians. I don't think Hamas would call that "winning." I do think BOTH sides could "win" if they sat down and worked out a two-state solution. But, that's  probably wishing for way too much, especially right now. 

You live in the same reality as the terrorist's, pointless discussing it with you further

[WDSmart]

11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Palestinians are the cause of this war , they attacked Israel on Oct 7 th

That is an undeniable fact .

I don't blame Israel for participated in a war started by Palestinians .

Due to the security threat to Israel , terrorists need to be removed from Gaza .

Palestinians need to stop attacking Israel and it seems that the only way to do that is to remove them from the land 

Thanks you for your honesty in stating your position. You are despicable. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Even Qatar has threatened to expel the Hamas terrorist officials from their base in Doha should they fail to persuade the group’s Gaza-based leaders to agree to a deal. 

 

Yawn, because they don't want Israel's genocidal effort in displacing them to succeed, yet again. You have utterly failed to address this point at any time. We have cockatoos who keep saying the same things over and over again without understanding their meaning. Egypt's PM or president I forget which said exactly that in a recent interview I watched on YT.

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks you for your honesty in stating your position. You are despicable. 

 

   You side with terrorists and support terrorists and war criminals and murderers and rapists and child killers and child abductors  , we find each other despicable 

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Even Qatar has threatened to expel the Hamas terrorist officials from their base in Doha should they fail to persuade the group’s Gaza-based leaders to agree to a deal. 

Yes, "agree to a deal." I agree, but there has been no "deal," only a proposal (an ultimatum, it seems) by Israel. A "deal" is something that has to be developed through negotiations. I hope that a real "deal" can soon be reached.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What's that got to do with Qatar getting frustrated with Hamas and threatening to expel them from their base in Doha

 

It specifically rebuts your claim that Qatar is "frustrated" by Hamas. It is in fact frustrated by Israel. Should Qatar facilitate Israel's policy of genocidal displacement of people from their homelands because of retribution? Prove your claim with a link. We know what happens to Palestinian refugee camps. Nothing. They remain in situ for decades.

[WDSmart]

19 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There's an American , an Australian and a New Zealander all shouting  from the roof tops about White people settling on non White peoples land and how they should give the land back  to the natives .

   Is there something Freudian going on here ?

Some psychological reason for their shouting about Israel ?

Why do you keep turning this argument around? We (Aussies and Yanks) all know what our forefathers did was wrong. Now we see it being done in Israel. That's why we are against it. And YOU seem to also think what was done in our home countries was wrong (I think, do you?). So if you do, why are you defending Israelis for doing it now?

If I went into someone's house and stole their computer and never gave it back, that would be wrong. If you saw someone else, maybe a member of your family, also stealing a computer, would you think that was okay because I got away with it? 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

It specifically rebuts your claim that Qatar is "frustrated" by Hamas. It is in fact frustrated by Israel. Prove your claim with a link.

 

No it does not..............

 

"Qatar has threatened to expel Hamas officials from their base in Doha should they fail to persuade the group’s Gaza-based leaders to agree to a deal, according to a Hamas official and Egyptian officials. Badran denied such a threat had been made."

https://archive.ph/8Y0Xp

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-leaders-sticks-to-hard-line-on-gaza-talks-b18dbc87

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Nothing, just pointing out the irony of your use of the term.

So you think, what I think it that you've got nothing better to do than post about me rather than the topic

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

No it does not..............

 

"Qatar has threatened to expel Hamas officials from their base in Doha should they fail to persuade the group’s Gaza-based leaders to agree to a deal, according to a Hamas official and Egyptian officials. Badran denied such a threat had been made."

https://archive.ph/8Y0Xp

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-leaders-sticks-to-hard-line-on-gaza-talks-b18dbc87

 

 

1. Link to paywall.

 

2. I missed that it referred only to Hamas officials. I took it to mean the wider refugee situation. My bad.

 

3. Qatar is a sunni nation so it's enmity with Hamas is obvious.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Why do you keep turning this argument around. We (Aussies and Yanks) all know what our forefathers did was wrong. Now we see it being done in Israel. That's why we are against it. And YOU seem to also think what was done in our home countries was wrong (I think, do you?). So if you do, why are you defending Israelis for doing it now?

If I went into a store and stole a computer and never gave it back, that would be wrong. If you then saw someone else, maybe a member of your family, also steal a computer, would you think that was okay because I got away with it? 

 

  So why aren't you all campaigning to give the Aborigines , Maoris and American Indians their land back ?

   Is it because you think that your fore fathers did wrong , but you still want the land , so to hide your guilt, you keep shouting about Jews doing bad ?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  So why aren't you all campaigning to give the Aborigines , Maoris and American Indians their land back ?

   Is it because you think that your fore fathers did wrong , but you still want the land , so to hide your guilt, you keep shouting about Jews doing bad ?

 

This is a ridiculous assertion. Stay on topic.

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So you think, what I think it that you've got nothing better to do than post about me rather than the topic

A big part of this topic, "Israel is at War: General Discussion," is trying to figure out why people like you blindly and unconditionally support Israel and do nothing but disparage people who present the perspectives of both sides of this conflict. So, I think pointing out what you think and are is very pertinent to this Topic.

[spidermike007]

If you think about it, Israel and Russia are both responsible for the loss of millions of jobs worldwide. The level of uncertainty created by their wars is having a devastating effect on the world economy, and consumer confidence. Both nations need to be stopped. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, WDSmart said:

A big part of this topic, "Israel is at War: General Discussion," is trying to figure out why people like you blindly and unconditionally support Israel and do nothing but disparage people who present the perspectives of both sides of this conflict. So, I think pointing out what you think and are is very pertinent to this Topic.

No a big part of this topic is not about trying to figure out those false assertions about me. 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

If you think about it, Israel and Russia are both responsible for the loss of millions of jobs worldwide. The level of uncertainty created by their wars is having a devastating effect on the world economy, and consumer confidence. Both nations need to be stopped. 

 

   Not true , the Arms industries are thriving and they cannot make enough bullets 

[retarius]

28 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks you for your honesty in stating your position. You are despicable. 

He is despicable. I have him on ignore. 

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  So why aren't you all campaigning to give the Aborigines , Maoris and American Indians their land back ?

   Is it because you think that your fore fathers did wrong , but you still want the land , so to hide your guilt, you keep shouting about Jews doing bad ?

The computer my forefathers stole is way out of date, and the party they stole it from now has access to new ones. They do talk about the theft somewhat, but most of the family are not militant about it. Those that are have filed suits, and they are working their way through the legal system. Restitution for the theft has been paid to some, and some claims are still pending.

[ezzra]

The question that should be really asked is How many Palestinians and Israelis will have to die before the Palestinians

will realise that they're fighting a losing war? I mean there is no way in hell for them to win with the way they do now,

so what is the point to continue? unless of course Palestinians lives don't matter, and by looking at how things

are at the moment, for the people that behind all of this, they don't...

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

The question that should be really asked is How many Palestinians and Israelis will have to die before the Palestinians

will realise that they're fighting a losing war? I mean there is no way in hell for them to win with the way they do now,

so what is the point to continue? unless of course Palestinians lives don't matter, and by looking at how things

are at the moment, for the people that behind all of this, they don't...

 

Is the prospect of losing a war justification to surrender? The strongest side wins? It's not just Hamas that need an epiphany here.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, ezzra said:

The question that should be really asked is How many Palestinians and Israelis will have to die before the Palestinians

will realise that they're fighting a losing war? I mean there is no way in hell for them to win with the way they do now,

so what is the point to continue? unless of course Palestinians lives don't matter, and by looking at how things

are at the moment, for the people that behind all of this, they don't...

 

Reducing it to a matter of winning or losing oversimplifies the complexities of the situation and undermines the legitimate grievances and aspirations of both Palestinians and Israelis.

 

Characterizing the conflict as a "losing war" for Palestinians overlooks the systemic inequalities and power imbalances that have perpetuated their struggle for self-determination and basic human rights. Palestinians have faced displacement, occupation, and numerous human rights violations, including restrictions on movement, land confiscation, and the expansion of illegal settlements.

 

Also, attributing blame solely to Palestinians for perpetuating the conflict disregards the role of the Israeli government in maintaining and exacerbating tensions through its policies and actions. The ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories, the expansion of settlements in defiance of international law, and the disproportionate use of force against Palestinian civilians have all contributed to the cycle of violence and instability.

Dehumanizing Palestinians or dismissing their suffering only serves to perpetuate animosity and hinder prospects for reconciliation and peace.

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, ezzra said:

The question that should be really asked is How many Palestinians and Israelis will have to die before the Palestinians

will realise that they're fighting a losing war? I mean there is no way in hell for them to win with the way they do now,

so what is the point to continue? unless of course Palestinians lives don't matter, and by looking at how things

are at the moment, for the people that behind all of this, they don't...

That's a good question. I think the Palestinians continue to fight and commit attacks such as Oct 7, to shock the world enough so they will look into this situation and help enforce an equitable settlement. This is just IMO, but I can think of no other reason, except maybe just frustration and revenge.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

The computer my forefathers stole is way out of date, and the party they stole it from now has access to new ones. They do talk about the theft somewhat, but most of the family are not militant about it. Those that are have filed suits, and they are working their way through the legal system. Restitution for the theft has been paid to some, and some claims are still pending.

 

   The big difference between the two situations is that Jews have been living on the land of Israel for thousands of years .

   

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The big difference between the two situations is that Jews have been living on the land of Israel for thousands of years .

   

And so have the Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians, right? 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You espouse extreme zionist views while refusing to answer any question which would require you to rationalize your viewpoint.

 

Such as?

 

Oh, good.

 

1. Does Israel have a legitimate right to claim all of the region for itself?

 

2. Do you deny that the Zionist credo is that all of the "promised lands" belong to Israel.

 

3. Do you deny that a number of prominent Israeli politicians and religious leaders have explicitly made that claim recently?

 

4. Do the Palestinins deserve to have their own country and self determination? Or just Israel.

 

5. Are the illegal settlements genocide?

 

6. Is the indiscriminate bombing of Palestinian towns, killing 20,000 people not a war crime?

 

7. Is the displacement of most Gazans from their homes not genocide?

 

8. Is shooting unarmed teenagers with live ammo ever justifiable?

 

If you care to answer more questions I have plenty but that's a good start and I have asked every one of those questions of you without getting a good faith or direct answer.

[ezzra]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

Reducing it to a matter of winning or losing oversimplifies the complexities of the situation and undermines the legitimate grievances and aspirations of both Palestinians and Israelis.

 

Characterizing the conflict as a "losing war" for Palestinians overlooks the systemic inequalities and power imbalances that have perpetuated their struggle for self-determination and basic human rights. Palestinians have faced displacement, occupation, and numerous human rights violations, including restrictions on movement, land confiscation, and the expansion of illegal settlements.

 

Also, attributing blame solely to Palestinians for perpetuating the conflict disregards the role of the Israeli government in maintaining and exacerbating tensions through its policies and actions. The ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories, the expansion of settlements in defiance of international law, and the disproportionate use of force against Palestinian civilians have all contributed to the cycle of violence and instability.

Dehumanizing Palestinians or dismissing their suffering only serves to perpetuate animosity and hinder prospects for reconciliation and peace.

 

You want to put forward your legitimate grievances, put them in font of many legal avenues that are there for this purpose

and not  sacrifice 10's of thousands of live and a whole generation just to prove you have a just cause... 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

 

You want to put forward your legitimate grievances, put them in font of many legal avenues that are there for this purpose

and not  sacrifice 10's of thousands of live and a whole generation just to prove you have a just cause... 

 

Why didn't Israel do just that?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Oh, good.

 

1. Does Israel have a legitimate right to claim all of the region for itself?

 

2. Do you deny that the Zionist credo is that all of the "promised lands" belong to Israel.

 

3. Do you deny that a number of prominent Israeli politicians and religious leaders have explicitly made that claim recently?

 

4. Do the Palestinins deserve to have their own country and self determination? Or just Israel.

 

5. Are the illegal settlements genocide?

 

6. Is the indiscriminate bombing of Palestinian towns, killing 20,000 people not a war crime?

 

7. Is the displacement of most Gazans from their homes not genocide?

 

If you care to answer more questions I have plenty but that's a good start and I have asked every one of those questions of you without getting a good faith or direct answer.

You claimed:

 

You espouse extreme zionist views while refusing to answer any question which would require you to rationalize your viewpoint.

 

I need evidence of those views that you claim I have supported

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You claimed:

 

You espouse extreme zionist views while refusing to answer any question which would require you to rationalize your viewpoint.

 

I need evidence of those views that you claim I have supported

I can answer them without requiring any evidence...
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. Yes

5. Yes
6. No
7. No