Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[WDSmart]

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The land that Jerusalem  sat on was called Judea in Roman times . 

Judea was the Roman translation of Yehuda , Yehuda being the Son of Jacob and later changed his name to Israel .

   Jerusalem was and is in Judea , which is an Hebrew name dating back thousands of years .

There wasn't a Country called Palestine in Roman times 

It was called "Canaan" before the Jews arrived.

[ozimoron]

Just now, WDSmart said:

It was called "Canaan" before the Jews arrived.

 

The reality is that the diaspora of the time was barely if at all distinguishable by outward manifestations. They intermingled and shared cultural and religious views. The religions of Judaism and Muslim both evolved out of the same melting pot.

[WDSmart]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  So that would also be a solution to the Palestinian issue ?

Give Palestinians access to other land , let them file a few suits in Court and that will resolve the issue 

Pay Palestinians restitution money and problem solved .

It worked for your Country and it should work in Israel 

Yes!
- A two-state solution and restitution for all the damage caused. 

I agree!

[Nick Carter icp]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

. Even the UK abstained at the last UN resolution calling for a ceasefire. That's a big win for the Gazans.

 

   The U.K not agreeing to there being a ceasefire in Gaza is a big win for Palestinians ?

A continuation of the war was a big win for Palestinians ?

The UK voting for a ceasefire would have been a win for  Palestinians , but the UK didn't vote for that 

 

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not "justifying" it. I'm telling you why I think Hamas felt "justified" in doing it. Just as I'm sure, you think the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza is "justified." I think neither is, but I know there are many on both sides that do. I'm only presenting the other side's perspective. Why can't you accept that? Why do you blame me for that? You can blame them and call them names, but why do that to me?

You are telling that Hamas felt justified by these unthinkable horrific acts of depravity which is another way of justifying their actions. 

The bombing of Gaza would not be happening without the result of the Hamas terrorists incursion, why can't you understand basic logic.

[Jeff the Chef]

55 minutes ago, ezzra said:

 

You want to put forward your legitimate grievances, put them in font of many legal avenues that are there for this purpose

and not  sacrifice 10's of thousands of live and a whole generation just to prove you have a just cause... 

 

Been done loads of times but the Israelis ignore UN resolutions.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes!
- A two-state solution and restitution for all the damage caused. 

I agree!

 

   But the Native Americans do not have their own Country 

There should be an Apache state with New York as its Capital city 

There should be a 574 state solution in the USA , because that is how many American Indian tribes there are .

   Would you agree to a 574 state solution in the USA ?

 

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You are telling that Hamas felt justified by these unthinkable horrific acts of depravity which is another way of justifying their actions. 

The bombing of Gaza would not be happening without the result of the Hamas terrorists incursion, why can't you understand basic logic.

I don't know WTF you're talking about! I'm not justifying it.

If I say Hamas is raping the women hostages because they want to degrade them and make themselves feel superior and in control, is that "justifying" the rape? Of course not!

Quit trying to assign blame on everyone who posts something that points out the other side's perspective. We don't always agree with it, but we do believe we understand why they do. 

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   But the Native Americans do not have their own Country 

There should be an Apache state with New York as its Capital city 

There should be a 574 state solution in the USA , because that is how many American Indian tribes there are .

   Would you agree to a 574 state solution in the USA ?

 

No, but I would agree to a two-state solution in Israel/Palestine.

If there were some movement to create a 574-state USA, I'd consider it, but I would have to know all the details. That's what a proposal and agreement are all about. I hope there are more talks about ceasing the violence in Gaza and returning the hostages soon. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

I don't know WTF you're talking about! I'm not justifying it.

If I say Hamas is raping the women hostages because they want to degrade them and make themselves feel superior and in control, is that "justifying" the rape? Of course not!

Quit trying to assign blame on everyone who posts something that points out the other side's perspective. We don't always agree with it, but we do believe we understand why they do. 

 

The problem is that whenever events like this happen, elements of both sides immediately raise the team flag and can't understand why anybody could be neutral.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, but I would agree to a two-state solution in Israel/Palestine.

If there were some movement to create a 574-state USA, I'd consider it, but I would have to know all the details. That's what a proposal and agreement are all about. I hope there are more talks about ceasing the violence in Gaza and returning the hostages soon. 

 

   Could you propose draught resolution detailing the outline of the 574 state solution in the USA , like you did with Israel ?

   What would the details be ?

You did it for Israel, could you also do it for the USA ?

[Wobblybob]

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I don't know WTF you're talking about! I'm not justifying it.

If I say Hamas is raping the women hostages because they want to degrade them and make themselves feel superior and in control, is that "justifying" the rape? Of course not!

Quit trying to assign blame on everyone who posts something that points out the other side's perspective. We don't always agree with it, but we do believe we understand why they do. 

You are being less than honest as usual and you stated a falsehood about me, please show me where I said these things you accuse me of!

 

50 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I used it as an example to highlight the ludicrous point you are trying to make, it is hypocritical and disingenuous to even suggest that lands should be returned after long periods of dwelling by invaders. 

Show me where I stated that "Israel should own ALL the land" and "Palestinians were either eliminated or kept as second or third-class citizens with limited rights."  Do you have to be dishonest to try and make a point......if you do, you don't have a point!

 

 

[Rimmer]

Some argumentative bickering posts have been removed, these include flaming by calling other members Zionists and using the term Zionism, this will stop now.

 

Many in the Jewish community say the use of "Zionist" as a term of abuse reflects a rising tide of bigotry and racism directed at Jews.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928

 

See also:

House Declares Anti-Zionism Is Antisemitism, Dividing Democrats

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/05/world/middleeast/house-anti-zionism-antisemitism.html

 

Please also see the following forum rules:

 

10. You will not post troll messages. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing forum members by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other members into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

11. You will not troll or stalk other members by misusing forum posts, private messages, reactions, emojis or by any other means.

 

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

35 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You are telling that Hamas felt justified by these unthinkable horrific acts of depravity which is another way of justifying their actions. 

The bombing of Gaza would not be happening without the result of the Hamas terrorists incursion, why can't you understand basic logic.

 And you don't get that all Israeli actions since 1948 and beyond lead up to the latest actions of Hamas in Gaza, which may I add are acts of terrorism, but fully justifiable considering Israel have done similar actions for nearly 80 years in the occupied territories against any opposition.

[WDSmart]

25 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Could you propose draught resolution detailing the outline of the 574 state solution in the USA , like you did with Israel ?

   What would the details be ?

You did it for Israel, could you also do it for the USA ?

How about this:
- A 574-state soltuion. Specific division is to be discussed and agreed on by all involved;
- Enforced by the IDF;

- No ceasefire needed;

- No exchange of hostages needed;

 

 

Okay?

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 And you don't get that all Israeli actions since 1948 and beyond lead up to the latest actions of Hamas in Gaza, which may I add are acts of terrorism, but fully justifiable considering Israel have done similar actions for nearly 80 years in the occupied territories against any opposition.

I get it alright and I get that your magical year of 1948 seems to you to justify the barbaric crimes by Hamas commited on 7/10. 

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I get it alright and I get that your magical year of 1948 seems to you to justify the barbaric crimes by Hamas commited on 7/10. 

Although this comment was not directed to me, my response is that we are not trying to "justify" anything. We are just explaining the other side's perspective and why THEY might think the actions are justified.

[Jeff the Chef]

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I get it alright and I get that your magical year of 1948 seems to you to justify the barbaric crimes by Hamas commited on 7/10. 

 

You could go back further but I don't see the point, Israel was declared a State on the 14th March 1948, when the Allied powers didn't have the gumption to stop it, hence the ongoing problems since.

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Although this comment was not directed to me, my response is that we are not trying to "justify" anything. We are just explaining the other side's perspective and why THEY might think the actions are justified.

Why do you feel the need to accuse posters of saying things they did not say, it seems a common theme with other posters on here too, it is not in the spirit of how you should be conducting yourself on a forum!

 

[Wobblybob]

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

You could go back further but I don't see the point, Israel was declared a State on the 14th March 1948, when the Allied powers didn't have the gumption to stop it, hence the ongoing problems since.

So that justifies necrophilia does it, you speak with fork tongue! 

[coolcarer]

22 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 And you don't get that all Israeli actions since 1948 and beyond lead up to the latest actions of Hamas in Gaza, which may I add are acts of terrorism, but fully justifiable considering Israel have done similar actions for nearly 80 years in the occupied territories against any opposition.

Even your beloved UN say Oct 7th was not justifiable. 
 

“the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas”

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Why do you feel the need to accuse posters of saying things they did not say, it seems a common theme with other posters on here too, it is not in the spirit of how you should be conducting yourself on a forum!

 

Here is what you posted previously:

"I get it alright and I get that your magical year of 1948 seems to you to justify the barbaric crimes by Hamas commited on 7/10. "

 

You accused @Jeff the Chef of justifying "the barbaric crimes by Hamas..." I don't believe he was "justifying them, but explaining why Hamas thought they were justified. 

Can't you understand the difference?

[Wobblybob]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Here is what you posted previously:

"I get it alright and I get that your magical year of 1948 seems to you to justify the barbaric crimes by Hamas commited on 7/10. "

 

You accused @Jeff the Chef of justifying "the barbaric crimes by Hamas..." I don't believe he was "justifying them, but explaining why Hamas thought they were justified. 

Can't you understand the difference?

You don't understand, show me where I said in the quote of yours to which I have highlighted and stop deflecting.

 

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

To answer your question, we have given a very small fraction of the land back, but I do not want to imply that is justice.

It's much the same as Israel has done/is doing with the Palestinians, forcing them to live in "reservations" like Gaza and the West Bank. 

Do you think what my forefathers (USA) did to the native Indians was wrong? If so, why do you continue to support Isreal? There, at least, both have some claim to the land, so a two-state solution is what I think should be done. But you have already stated you think Israel should own ALL the land, and the Palestinians were either eliminated or kept as second or third-class citizens with limited rights. 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

49 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

How about this:
- A 574-state soltuion. Specific division is to be discussed and agreed on by all involved;
- Enforced by the IDF;

- No ceasefire needed;

- No exchange of hostages needed;

 

 

Okay?

 

   No, the IDF aren't active in the USA and they cannot legally enforce anything 

[WDSmart]

59 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You don't understand, show me where I said in the quote of yours to which I have highlighted and stop deflecting.

 

 

I won't be responding directly to this. I've done so about three times, and none of them satisfy you. I have no idea why you keep accusing people of things and then, when called on it, refusing to explain why you did. I'm sure you'll keep on doing it. I'll call you out on it again then.

[WDSmart]

38 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No, the IDF aren't active in the USA and they cannot legally enforce anything 

If all the participants in the 574-state agreement accept them, they do. 

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I won't be responding directly to this. I've done so about three times, and none of them satisfy you. I have no idea why you keep accusing people of things and then, when called on it, refusing to explain why you did. 

You lied then, that's cleared that up. Don't even try and point the finger at me for your dishonesty!

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

You lied then, that's cleared that up. Don't even try and point the finger at me for your dishonesty!

I did not lie. I'll wait until you do it again, which I'm sure you will, and call you out on it then. 

[Ben Zioner]

On 3/7/2024 at 11:11 AM, Jeff the Chef said:

The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel. As of 2023, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Total waste of paper. If the UN acknowledged that Israel is has been besieged by bloodthirsty hordes for nearly a century, all these irrelevant resolutions wouldn't be clogging up the wastebasket of the IOI (International Organisation for Irrelevance).

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I did not lie. I'll wait until you do it again, which I'm sure you will, and call you out on it then. 

Of course you lied, you make quotes up and attribute them to other posters. That is being dishonest at the very best, why don't you admit it and posters might take you more seriously. Lying about what other posters say will win you very few friends, prove me wrong, but you know you cannot.