Growing Trees

[stupidfarang]

Has anyone planted land with trees as an investment? If so what part of Isaan and what type of trees are being planted. Am thinking of buying land so local price in your area would be god to know. Thank you in advance

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 3/18/2024 at 12:42 AM, stupidfarang said:

Has anyone planted land with trees as an investment? If so what part of Isaan and what type of trees are being planted. Am thinking of buying land so local price in your area would be god to know. Thank you in advance

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Since you cannot buy land in Thailand I don't think your idea has much merit.

 

[The Fugitive]

  On 3/18/2024 at 12:42 AM, stupidfarang said:

Has anyone planted land with trees as an investment? If so what part of Isaan and what type of trees are being planted. Am thinking of buying land so local price in your area would be god to know. Thank you in advance

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Be aware that when up country dams reach bursting point the excess water is released causing extensive flooding. Our council (South of Khon Kaen) operate boats to take people to their land/homes in such times.

[spidermike007]

Yes, I know somebody who owns quite a bit of land up country and is growing teak and rosewood. It can be very profitable, but keep in mind it's a very long-term investment, 20 years minimum, and some areas have restrictions. We have land up north, some of the land it would be allowed and some of the land we could grow the trees but we'd never be allowed to cut them down. So you have to look into the local regulations. But it's very profitable in the long run if you have the right land for it, and you're willing to invest a significant amount of money, and you've willing to wait decades for a return.

 

For most of us it would be a legacy type investment for our woman and her family. 

[Muhendis]

My wife and I have set aside about 20 Rai of our land for trees. The species is mixed but mainly Yang Na, Pradu, Sactong and various Acacia varieties. The land is in central Buriram and there is no restriction on harvesting other than what you cut down must be replaced with another tree.

Land values have increased more than ten fold over the last ten years or so and is currently selling for 300k/Rai but that is the price off the beaten track. In villages an towns and adjacent to main routes the sky's the limit.

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/18/2024 at 1:10 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Since you cannot buy land in Thailand I don't think your idea has much merit.

 

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As you do not know the facts behind the question, I think your comment has no merit.

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/18/2024 at 1:20 AM, The Fugitive said:

Be aware that when up country dams reach bursting point the excess water is released causing extensive flooding. Our council (South of Khon Kaen) operate boats to take people to their land/homes in such times.

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thats very interesting, still not sort a way to release the water without flooding the people out?

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/18/2024 at 1:36 AM, spidermike007 said:

Yes, I know somebody who owns quite a bit of land up country and is growing teak and rosewood. It can be very profitable, but keep in mind it's a very long-term investment, 20 years minimum, and some areas have restrictions. We have land up north, some of the land it would be allowed and some of the land we could grow the trees but we'd never be allowed to cut them down. So you have to look into the local regulations. But it's very profitable in the long run if you have the right land for it, and you're willing to invest a significant amount of money, and you've willing to wait decades for a return.

 

For most of us it would be a legacy type investment for our woman and her family. 

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Thank you for the excellent info, good to know about the local regulations. Yes this is for the long term for my child, I will be long burid by the time it comes to cutting them down. LOL

[The Fugitive]

  On 3/19/2024 at 1:03 AM, stupidfarang said:

thats very interesting, still not sort a way to release the water without flooding the people out?

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Not happened this year and the Council boats have gone back into storage. We were flooded for the two previous consecutive rainy seasons. The rivers can't cope when they release the water. I can't imagine any solution to that. At least the Royal Thai Army delivered sacks of rice beforehand!  

[udontomi]

We planted about 14 (fairly remote) rai of trees and after about four years, they were STOLEN!

[Muhendis]

  On 3/18/2024 at 1:36 AM, spidermike007 said:

For most of us it would be a legacy type investment for our woman and her family.

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Quite so, but there is also the possibility of growing a rubber plantation which will yield an income when the trees start producing. When the rubber trees have passed their useful production age then they can be sold for timber (have a look at rubber wood sold by Thai Watsadu amongst others). 

Another quick return tree would of course be Eucalyptus which is used for paper making. Not my favourite tree by a long way because of it's root system but a quick growing earner.

[Muhendis]

  On 3/19/2024 at 1:57 AM, udontomi said:

We planted about 14 (fairly remote) rai of trees and after about four years, they were STOLEN!

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Yep.

That's what happens in Thailand. 

The locals will help themselves when your not looking.

I lost a couple of mine 'til I moved here full time.

[fredwiggy]

A lot grow Durian because it's very popular and tasty. Takes about 7 years to produce fruit from grafted trees, 8-10 from seeds, and they sell, but a lot of competition in it. Like some have mentioned, a lot of thieves in Thailand, especially in the country not protected areas. I have Rose Apple tree on the dirt road in front of my house, and the kids stole the first years fruit. This year it had about 100 buds, and they all disappeared overnight, not understanding why besides maybe birds. The one Mango I have that's mature had a few fruit stolen. Not easy to protect from a population that doesn't think much of their neighbors besides easy targets.

[sirineou]

  On 3/19/2024 at 1:05 AM, stupidfarang said:

Thank you for the excellent info, good to know about the local regulations. Yes this is for the long term for my child, I will be long burred by the time it comes to cutting them down. LOL

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You are a good man for doing this for your child. 

 

[AustinRacing]

  On 3/19/2024 at 2:35 AM, Muhendis said:

Yep.

That's what happens in Thailand. 

The locals will help themselves when your not looking.

I lost a couple of mine 'til I moved here full time.

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 It is not just trees and farangs. My in laws have rice, fish farm, pigs. Occasionally they mention fish or pigs missing. It’s in their nature to help themselves when necessity arises. 

[Stevemercer]

  On 3/19/2024 at 1:50 AM, The Fugitive said:

Not happened this year and the Council boats have gone back into storage. We were flooded for the two previous consecutive rainy seasons. The rivers can't cope when they release the water. I can't imagine any solution to that. At least the Royal Thai Army delivered sacks of rice beforehand!  

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I live in Kosum (near Khon Kaen) where peple have been flooded out over the last two years because the irrigation authority has released too much water, too fast in the last month of the wet season. Both time the weather department predicted late season heavy rain, but it never materialised. The irrigation authority was obviously trying to lower the dams in case of a deluge, but erred in releasing far too much water. They could have released it slower and over a longer period. They normally pay compenation, but it is a pittance.

 

Maybe it is a difficult decision, because if late rain had arrived, and the dams had not been lowered, maybe there was a risk of the dams overtopping.

[ChrisKC]

  On 3/18/2024 at 1:10 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Since you cannot buy land in Thailand I don't think your idea has much merit.

 

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You CAN buy land in Thailand but you can't own it!

[khunPer]

  On 3/18/2024 at 12:42 AM, stupidfarang said:

Has anyone planted land with trees as an investment? If so what part of Isaan and what type of trees are being planted. Am thinking of buying land so local price in your area would be god to know. Thank you in advance

Expand  

Rubber trees. Tree for paper is also an option. It takes seven years before you can cut rubber; you might need to co-work with some experienced cutters doing the work; the share is often 40/60 or 50/50. Wood for paper, the trees can be financed by the paper manufacturer.

 

Prices for land can be very different – you, cannot own land as foreigner, so it needs to be a Thai spouse or partner, or through a Thai company limited – and also depends of how good the land is for other purposes, like growing rice. When I bought land the price was around 10k-20k baht for low grade and low title deed rice land; and 40k baht for nor sor 4 (Chanote) title prime rice land per rai (1,600 square meters). Today the same kind of land is traded for around 70k baht and 100k baht per rai.

 

Be aware of title deeds. Some are kind of ownership – for example nor sor 3 variants – and can be upgraded to full ownership (i.e., nor sor 4). Other title deeds can be agricultural land given to be held by families and not sold – even it's widely traded – these titles are not registered by a land office. However, at the moment the agricultural land titles can begin to be upgraded to nor sor 4 (Chanote) title.

 

As an investment, you shall calculate it well, before you do it. Agricultural land gives a low average percentage in outcome (or dividend) of the investment. The gain is the expected increase in land value when it once get sold.

[spidermike007]

  On 3/19/2024 at 2:30 AM, Muhendis said:

Quite so, but there is also the possibility of growing a rubber plantation which will yield an income when the trees start producing. When the rubber trees have passed their useful production age then they can be sold for timber (have a look at rubber wood sold by Thai Watsadu amongst others). 

Another quick return tree would of course be Eucalyptus which is used for paper making. Not my favourite tree by a long way because of it's root system but a quick growing earner.

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William Randolph Hearst introduced eucalyptus to California for paper pulp and quickly discovered that it was one of the lowest quality pulps on the planet, and the eucalyptus groves were abandoned. They then spread all throughout California, which in my opinion is a good thing because they are a gorgeous tree, but don't consider planting them for profit. 

[spidermike007]

  On 3/19/2024 at 8:30 AM, khunPer said:

Rubber trees. Tree for paper is also an option. It takes seven years before you can cut rubber; you might need to co-work with some experienced cutters doing the work; the share is often 40/60 or 50/50. Wood for paper, the trees can be financed by the paper manufacturer.

 

Prices for land can be very different – you, cannot own land as foreigner, so it needs to be a Thai spouse or partner, or through a Thai company limited – and also depends of how good the land is for other purposes, like growing rice. When I bought land the price was around 10k-20k baht for low grade and low title deed rice land; and 40k baht for nor sor 4 (Chanote) title prime rice land per rai (1,600 square meters). Today the same kind of land is traded for around 70k baht and 100k baht per rai.

 

Be aware of title deeds. Some are kind of ownership – for example nor sor 3 variants – and can be upgraded to full ownership (i.e., nor sor 4). Other title deeds can be agricultural land given to be held by families and not sold – even it's widely traded – these titles are not registered by a land office. However, at the moment the agricultural land titles can begin to be upgraded to nor sor 4 (Chanote) title.

 

As an investment, you shall calculate it well, before you do it. Agricultural land gives a low average percentage in outcome (or dividend) of the investment. The gain is the expected increase in land value when it once get sold.

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After planning a very impressive mango orchard we realize that they are really only profitable if a Thai family is doing all the work, and providing all the labor. It was a huge loss for us, especially with the Ukraine war driving up prices of fertilizer and all the inflation related expenses, along with the price of mangoes dropping. So do your research, investigate this carefully before investing any money. I would tend toward exotic fruits, durian if the climate permits, if not exotic  varieties of pomelo and other fruits like that.

 

I don't think the rubber is particularly profitable at this point in time. 

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 3/19/2024 at 1:02 AM, stupidfarang said:

As you do not know the facts behind the question, I think your comment has no merit.

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"Has anyone planted land with trees as an investment? If so what part of Isaan and what type of trees are being planted. Am thinking of buying land so local price in your area would be god to know. Thank you in advance"

 

I could only go by what facts you supplied in your obviously lousy worded OP... sorry.

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 3/19/2024 at 5:46 AM, ChrisKC said:

You CAN buy land in Thailand but you can't own it!

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Then you CANNOT buy land by definition... you can PAY for it however... not the same if you want to split hairs.

[ChrisKC]

  On 3/20/2024 at 12:12 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Then you CANNOT buy land by definition... you can PAY for it however... not the same if you want to split hairs.

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My point remains valid

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/19/2024 at 1:57 AM, udontomi said:

We planted about 14 (fairly remote) rai of trees and after about four years, they were STOLEN!

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yes that is a worry, have thought about that.

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/19/2024 at 2:50 AM, sirineou said:

You are a good man for doing this for your child. 

 

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Thank you, I would like to think most men would do this, especialy in Thailand where you would want to insure your child has a decent income in the future, so they are not living on 10 to 15 thousand baht a month. 

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/19/2024 at 8:30 AM, khunPer said:

Rubber trees. Tree for paper is also an option. It takes seven years before you can cut rubber; you might need to co-work with some experienced cutters doing the work; the share is often 40/60 or 50/50. Wood for paper, the trees can be financed by the paper manufacturer.

 

Prices for land can be very different – you, cannot own land as foreigner, so it needs to be a Thai spouse or partner, or through a Thai company limited – and also depends of how good the land is for other purposes, like growing rice. When I bought land the price was around 10k-20k baht for low grade and low title deed rice land; and 40k baht for nor sor 4 (Chanote) title prime rice land per rai (1,600 square meters). Today the same kind of land is traded for around 70k baht and 100k baht per rai.

 

Be aware of title deeds. Some are kind of ownership – for example nor sor 3 variants – and can be upgraded to full ownership (i.e., nor sor 4). Other title deeds can be agricultural land given to be held by families and not sold – even it's widely traded – these titles are not registered by a land office. However, at the moment the agricultural land titles can begin to be upgraded to nor sor 4 (Chanote) title.

 

As an investment, you shall calculate it well, before you do it. Agricultural land gives a low average percentage in outcome (or dividend) of the investment. The gain is the expected increase in land value when it once get sold.

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To be honest I hate rubber trees, yet my wife has just been given 11 rai of newly planted rubber trees. I started to study up on how best to look after the trees and what fertiliser they will need to ensure the best growth. Then discovered the wife had no interest in the trees so gave up on that for now, wait and see what happens.

 

Interesting about the prices of land, agree that is the long term investment as there is no more land being made. We are buying a reprocessed house from the bank, is cheap an in a good area with neighbours we know, will update it with paint and a new bathroom then it will be rented out, long term investment for the child, I will not personally get a return on this.

 

Thank you for your input

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 3/20/2024 at 1:05 AM, ChrisKC said:

My point remains valid

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What point?  By definition you miss used the term "buy" Buy Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster in order to negate my post that as a foreigner you cannot buy land in Thailand... a foreigner can only "pay" for land... they CANNOT buy land.

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/20/2024 at 12:02 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

"Has anyone planted land with trees as an investment? If so what part of Isaan and what type of trees are being planted. Am thinking of buying land so local price in your area would be god to know. Thank you in advance"

 

I could only go by what facts you supplied in your obviously lousy worded OP... sorry.

 

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WTF is wrong with you. Why make comments like this? " Lousy worded OP" seems there are several people who have read my question and have given their valid opinions which have been helpful, so it seems they understood what I wrote.

 

From your other comments on here to other people in this thread, it shows you lack conversation skills and manners.

 

If you are unable to offer sensible comments to the conversation, then pass on by to the next news item.

[stupidfarang]

  On 3/20/2024 at 1:26 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

What point?  By definition you miss used the term "buy" Buy Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster in order to negate my post that as a foreigner you cannot buy land in Thailand... a foreigner can only "pay" for land... they CANNOT buy land.

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Wrong.

Agree that a foreigner cannot own land.

 

Yet a foreigner can buy land by paying for it, the ownership of the land is different, I bought the land, and it was placed in my wife’s name. I bought the house and when exchanging the legal papers it was placed in the child’s name. Agree that a foreigner cannot own land. Need to define the whole sentence in the conversation not just a single word. Now Skip along cassidy to your next argumentive post.

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 3/20/2024 at 1:32 AM, stupidfarang said:

WTF is wrong with you. Why make comments like this? " Lousy worded OP" seems there are several people who have read my question and have given their valid opinions which have been helpful, so it seems they understood what I wrote.

 

From your other comments on here to other people in this thread, it shows you lack conversation skills and manners.

 

If you are unable to offer sensible comments to the conversation, then pass on by to the next news item.

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WTF is wrong with you?  You opened a half assed OP and get upset that I do not know what you meant... the answer stands... know matter what... YOU CANNOT BUY LAND IN THAILAND IF YOU ARE A FOREIGNER.