Culture or Something else?

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How long have you been here? And you are still surprised that they didn't understand your sarcastic North Korea joke. That tells us a lot more about you than those Thais you complain about.

 

Many countries want the money of the tourists. They don't really want the tourist.

I understand them, living here for decades I see too many annoying tourists. 

I guess most have never heard of North Korea but many know of South Korea? My mistake.  Next time I will make a South Korean reference. 

[FruitPudding]

8 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Is admitting to a mistake and apologizing to a foreigner not possible?

 

Nothing is genuine here. 

 

Even a Thai, "Sorree sorree" is worth nothing

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

when the cashier showed up and paid for the blood test.  

That was very nice of the cashier...

 

laughter is a cultural thing... thai often laugh in times of stress... if I hit my head in a car door, my wife in the USA would have been wild with laughter... so, it's a male/female thing too. 

[Thingamabob]

9 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I have lived in Chiang Mai for over 7 years and “ I will never understand the local people”.  Recently the following interactions have occurred:

 

1. Went to a well known clinic that is part of a major hospital for a bood test.  The clinic opens at 0700 and I showed up exactly at that time.  All the employees seemed upset that I showed up at 0700.  Got the blood test done but the cashier had not come to work yet.  This made the employees ever more upset.  I waited until 0800 when the cashier showed up and paid for the blood test.  The clerk then slammed the receipt on the counter.  I later found out that the clinic employees get to the spend the first hour relaxing because most patients do not show until at least 0800.  I guess “ it was my mistake for showing up when they opened”? 

2. Used to go to a gym that opens at “0700”.  During my time at this gym they would open at 0730, 0800, 0900 and once at 1200.  I asked the employee and eventually the manager about the inconsistent opening times and all got was a smile but no answer.  I found another gym shortly after.

3.  I recently booked a Grab car.  When the car arrived I entered and slipped on the floor mat and hit my head on the door frame.  The floor mat had a slipperysubstance and when I pointed this out to the driver she started laughing.  I guess  this was funny to her. The slippery substance looked like Armour All?  

 

Is admitting to a mistake and apologizing to a foreigner not possible? 

Not only in Thailand. These days pretty much like this everywhere. 

[jesimps]

What I do hate is waiting outside a shop in the heat for it to open late in the morning. Central Plaza in Pattaya a case in point with an opening time of 11am.  

They can see a large crowd waiting to be admitted, but no way on God's earth will they open those doors even a second early.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

time is irrelevant to most Thais

 

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

I think you just summed it up.  I had a professor in college who said “ time is money and money is life”.  This is not true in LOS.  

A little oversensitive.

[it is what it is]

 

i've lived and worked in many countries, as well as amazing experiences there are cultural challenges everywhere, if you want everything to work as it does back home, then stay back home. don;t try to compare other countries to your country, understand and accept the differences, manage your expectations, chill out, enjoy the differences, enjoy life.

[sqwakvfr]

37 minutes ago, it is what it is said:

 

i've lived and worked in many countries, as well as amazing experiences there are cultural challenges everywhere, if you want everything to work as it does back home, then stay back home. don;t try to compare other countries to your country, understand and accept the differences, manage your expectations, chill out, enjoy the differences, enjoy life.

Ok thanks.  Then getting upset when a patient shows up at a clinic is acceptable?  Laughing at a passenger who slips and hits his head when he enters a car because the driver left a slippery substance on the floor is acceptable?  Got it.  I have lived in 6 countries and I have not had similar experiences.  

[sqwakvfr]

43 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

A little oversensitive.

Your opinion.  Therefore, you must be correct.

[sqwakvfr]

51 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Not only in Thailand. These days pretty much like this everywhere. 

Based upon my experience of living in 6 countries it is not like everywhere.

[retarius]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Many of us are in Thailand because it is different from "home", which is mostly somewhere in "the west".

Yes, Thailand is different, in many ways.

What should change:

Thailand should be just like the west - then why would you come?

Thailand should be Thailand in some ways, but like the west in ways I want it to be. - Really

Thailand is Thailand. Accept it.

 

Obviously, I also noticed problems with opening times and lots of other things which are not perfect.

Do I want to wait until they "improve" their lazy behavior?

Or is it so much better to just accept Thailand is Thailand.

 

 

 

Thank you, well said. 

[JimTripper]

It feels worse in Thailand when that happens because there is a myth that Thai's are supposed to be smiling and nice.

 

Go to other big cities and you don't get nice either. Try New York City. Is the cabbie apologizing or saying I'm sorry there? No. Are receptionists being friendly all the time? No.
 

[thailand49]

I dont like to accept it so I work around it. 🤣

 

[bob smith]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How long have you been here? And you are still surprised that they didn't understand your sarcastic North Korea joke. That tells us a lot more about you than those Thais you complain about.

 

Many countries want the money of the tourists. They don't really want the tourist.

I understand them, living here for decades I see too many annoying tourists. 

cant have one without the other though, eh.

 

so they better suck it up hard if they want that tourist dollar!

 

the alternative is millions out of work and on the streets. 

the choice is theirs!

 

bob.

[gamb00ler]

13 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Jeez, if these are your biggest complaints in 7 years you should be thankful.   Pretty minor stuff to complain about in my opinion.

I didn't see any reference to "biggest" in the original post.... Sometimes I am amazed that the culture seems to be permeated with such a pronounced laissez faire attitude.  When I encounter many examples in a short time it temporarily impinges on my normally cheerful outlook.  Thankfully, I usually manage to not post about it.

[Mark Nothing]

Thailand is a unique country in that it is based on a foundation of social hierarchy.  Superiors and inferiors.  They are constantly sizing up everyone and labeling them into a pecking order on the rungs of a ladder.

 

So the social interactions are based on this pecking order.  If the person is superior they are treated differently then an inferior.

 

Foreigners do not have a position in this system so the result is you are inferior.  Superiors do not admit mistakes to inferiors and will certainly never, ever apologize.

[pub2022]

Avoid trying to understand them and you'll have a better life here.

It can be difficult sometimes.

[BigStar]

7 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Then getting upset when a patient shows up at a clinic is acceptable? 

 

Maybe it was simply your own anal retentive attitude they reacted to. I'd really not have expected them to get going promptly at 7 and just made a little joke when they didn't, smiles all around. Waiting in Thailand is par for the course. You should have learned to roll with the flow by now. Been many years since I had an unpleasant interaction with a Thai.

 

17 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

 When the car arrived I entered and slipped on the floor mat and hit my head on the door frame.

 

Oh, poor baby. 👉Expect the unexpected.

 

17 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Is admitting to a mistake and apologizing to a foreigner not possible? 

 

Were you lying on the pavement bleeding out, m'lord? Say this: "Ouch!" Then get in the car and close the door. You ain't owed anything.

 

 

Haven't had a good whinge thread since Monday's Inconceivably Inconvenient Shelves Restocking whinge. We'll see how long this one lasts.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

Maybe it was simply your own anal retentive attitude they reacted to. I'd really not have expected them to get going promptly at 7 and just made a little joke when they didn't, smiles all around. Waiting in Thailand is par for the course. You should have learned to roll with the flow by now. Been many years since I had an unpleasant interaction with a Thai.

 

I get your 'roll with the flow point'....   But I also disagree and there cases where we can press it.

 

i.e. Hospital appointments - If I have an appointment for 2pm, I expect to be seen at 2pm.  

 

When making the appointment I tell them I have other things to do so have limited time....  thus, its 2 pm and if something has happend that makes the physician late...  I want to be alerted of either the estimated delay, or I'll reschedule - to be fair hospitals are getting a lot better at their timing and keeping appointment times ( its rarely more than a 10min wait which is fine and I've got the 'silly checking my hight, weight and blood-pressure tuff out of the way).

 

I'm obviously too impatient - but one of the things I hate here is the "please wait" comments....  my immediate response is... wait for how long, 5 mins, 1 hour ???....  I'd like to know with an answer that isn't a guess...       then I get some sort of response, you are second in the queue etc so its another 15 to 20 mins...  which I'm OK with, things slip past the time.

 

My latest surgeon is extremely efficient with his time...  we discuss what we need do, go through photos' scans, even medical journals that I've questioned and from those have plenty of questions etc...   but I get 15mins or less - I've got what I need and know the Dr. has others who like me want to be seen on time and I respect that.

 

When going for yearly medicals - its a 4-5 hour affair.... lunch in the middle.....  I just say no time, morning or I'm going home ( I usually lie and say I have an afternoon flight )....

Things then get efficient. 

 

I don't want to be the guy who rushes everyone...  but neither am I the guy to sit their happily while a Dr has is 1 hour lunch break from 12-1pm if I've been given an appointment at midday, so I pressed this issue on a few occasions. 

 

 

 

-------  

 

Recently during my Son's passport renewal the computer system was down... We'd already faffed for 10mins... 

They didn't know how long it was going to be so we went for a bite to eat and the staff said they'd call us when the system was up.

We got the call (in the muddle of our lunch), so we ate up and returned only to find that that specific officer herself had gone to lunch and may be another hour....  

....  I wasn't pleased about that....    and asked why we had to wait while the other girl 'eats'...   a supervisor stepped in and said they could take over the case and finish off the process....  it took another 5 mins because most of the process had been completed before the system crashed. 

....  there's no need to be rude of course, but patience also has its limits, things can be handled respectfully while also asking pressing questions - thats ok...  its always been ok, but some foreigners here seem so very scared of saying boo to the ghost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

Maybe it was simply your own anal retentive attitude they reacted to. I'd really not have expected them to get going promptly at 7 and just made a little joke when they didn't, smiles all around. Waiting in Thailand is par for the course. You should have learned to roll with the flow by now. Been many years since I had an unpleasant interaction with a Thai.

 

 

Oh, poor baby. 👉Expect the unexpected.

 

 

Were you lying on the pavement bleeding out, m'lord? Say this: "Ouch!" Then get in the car and close the door. You ain't owed anything.

 

 

Haven't had a good whinge thread since Monday's Inconceivably Inconvenient Shelves Restocking whinge. We'll see how long this one lasts.

 

 

Thanks.  You know me so well. You must have been present at the clinic to witness my "retentive" attitude? 

[SAFETY FIRST]

22 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I have lived in Chiang Mai for over 7 years and “ I will never understand the local people”.  Recently the following interactions have occurred:

 

1. Went to a well known clinic that is part of a major hospital for a bood test.  The clinic opens at 0700 and I showed up exactly at that time.  All the employees seemed upset that I showed up at 0700.  Got the blood test done but the cashier had not come to work yet.  This made the employees ever more upset.  I waited until 0800 when the cashier showed up and paid for the blood test.  The clerk then slammed the receipt on the counter.  I later found out that the clinic employees get to the spend the first hour relaxing because most patients do not show until at least 0800.  I guess “ it was my mistake for showing up when they opened”? 

2. Used to go to a gym that opens at “0700”.  During my time at this gym they would open at 0730, 0800, 0900 and once at 1200.  I asked the employee and eventually the manager about the inconsistent opening times and all got was a smile but no answer.  I found another gym shortly after.

3.  I recently booked a Grab car.  When the car arrived I entered and slipped on the floor mat and hit my head on the door frame.  The floor mat had a slipperysubstance and when I pointed this out to the driver she started laughing.  I guess  this was funny to her. The slippery substance looked like Armour All?  

 

Is admitting to a mistake and apologizing to a foreigner not possible? 

Get used to it, enjoy the ride. 

 

Thailand is not for everyone and it's not perfect but it suits me 

 

I love Thailand, all its Quirks and Features. 👍

 

 

[spidermike007]

One thing that I've noticed after living in Thailand for a decade and a half is that the cities and areas that attract a lot of tourists, and expats, like Chiang Mai, Samui, Phuket and Pattaya in particular, seem to have a lot of locals that are somewhat jaded and they just don't seem very interested or amused by us. My guess is that there are a fair number of foreign lowlifes, fools or arrogant folks, that they deal with and, they're just over it.

 

If you want to get warmth and kindness and humor from the Thais, my recommendation is to move away from those areas, there are plenty of smaller towns where the locals are people delightful to be around. 

 

Also I find Thai people quite intuitive and they're very responsive to the energy that you're putting out, so if you're putting out good energy and your humorous, and you're making the exchange pleasant and fun, they will often times respond to that in a nice manner. 

[sqwakvfr]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

One thing that I've noticed after living in Thailand for a decade and a half is that the cities and areas that attract a lot of tourists, and expats, like Chiang Mai, Samui, Phuket and Pattaya in particular, seem to have a lot of locals that are somewhat jaded and they just don't seem very interested or amused by us. My guess is that there are a fair number of foreign lowlifes, fools or arrogant folks, that they deal with and, they're just over it.

 

If you want to get warmth and kindness and humor from the Thais, my recommendation is to move away from those areas, there are plenty of smaller towns where the locals are people delightful to be around. 

 

Also I find Thai people quite intuitive and they're very responsive to the energy that you're putting out, so if you're putting out good energy and your humorous, and you're making the exchange pleasant and fun, they will often times respond to that in a nice manner. 

I am not a touchy, feely or sensitive guy but I would like courtesy.  If I show you courtesy then it should be returned.  I am not like some who feel "they all hate us".  However, at times I feel the same way.  If you are open for business then expect someone to walk in and expect service.  If you are a driver logged into Grab then expect a rider to hail you.  As a driver ensure the floor of the vehicle does not have a slippery substance that could cause a rider to slip.  Lastly, if a business publicly states that it is opens at a certain time them do so.  ff not then change your opening time.  This is my point about this subject:  This country is very inconsistent and often it's people react with anger when one simply asks a question.  

 

Lastly I will reveal a detail about myself that probably makes a difference on how I am treated by the locals.

 

I am an American but I am not caucasian.  When most Thai first see me I believe they think I am Chinese because I am of Asian descent. I believe this is what sets the course for my interaction with Thai people.  I know many Thai people have had negative interactions with Chinese but I am not a rude Chinese person.  For me this will always be a losing battle.  For grins once I told a Thai person that I was Chinese and this was met with a warm smile and "shei, shei".  So I should learn Mandarin and go with the flow.

 

Anyway, just another day in the land of smiles.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

people react with anger when one simply asks a question.

Thais are very sensitive to language and have - at least where I live here in Isaan - what to a Westerner looks like primitive superstitions in regard to language.

 

So you can't say of Uncle Somchai lying on his bed groaning: Mmmm, he's not looking too good, probably won't be with us by Xmas.  Horror! horror! you've just condemned him to an early death ie words can kill.

 

Similarly, asking a question - particularly what we would think of as a 'pointed question' - will very easily be received as a challenge to authority, that is, STATUS. Are you questioning my authority to make this statement? Can't you see the uniform I'm wearing?

[brewsterbudgen]

Yes, Thailand can be an extremely frustrating country to live in.  Not really breaking news though!

[rexpotter]

16 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

i've lived and worked in many countries, as well as amazing experiences there are cultural challenges everywhere, if you want everything to work as it does back home, then stay back home. don;t try to compare other countries to your country, understand and accept the differences, manage your expectations, chill out, enjoy the differences, enjoy life.

I have also worked all over the world. His comments are welcome to be discussed, not dismissed as  some moral or emotional failing.

[rexpotter]

1 minute ago, rexpotter said:

I have also worked all over the world. His comments are welcome to be discussed, not dismissed as  some moral or emotional failing.

A more constructive comment might be, 'When this happens to me I try to take a breath and walk away for a moment'.

[nana kid]

Most of these problems are Cultural                  but they are changing, as Social Media is showing Thai's how the rest of the world acts. Before SM Thailand was locked into it's own rules and regs.   It will take time for change

[Bangkok Barry]

On your first two points, time is just numbers to Thais and nothing else. As an example, last week I showed up at the hospital at 11.30 as directed to in a letter given to me a week before, to check my eye after cataract surgery. I arrived at 11.15 and the doctor had already left.

 

On the other hand, yesterday someone said he would come at 4 to replace a glass door, and he arrived on the dot.

[Bangkok Barry]

17 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

i've lived and worked in many countries, as well as amazing experiences there are cultural challenges everywhere, if you want everything to work as it does back home, then stay back home. don;t try to compare other countries to your country, understand and accept the differences, manage your expectations, chill out, enjoy the differences, enjoy life.

 

You forgot 'accept their lower standards'.