Analysis New school year, same old story: Thailand’s education system ‘stuck in the past’

[ignore it]

57 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not sure stuck in the past is a bad thing now.  

 

Yeah I hear all y'all ragging on about the waiing and haircuts and all the other crap, but...

 

I much prefer that to than to have my kids go and get all "woke" DEI'd,  and gender identified, with the boys playing on the girls team and peeing sitting down in the girls toilet.

 

I was bored poopless throughout my rural US public (free) schooling.  But ya just hang in, finish, get the certificate and go on to work or to get another diploma/degree. 

 

Hopefully finding something your interested in and learning all you can about it.  Maybe even get some more formal education if needed. Or get a job skill like becoming a plumber or electrician etc.

 

With the internet and web, there's absolutely no barriers to learning, but some jobs require the certificates, diplomas, and other qualifications.

 

 

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and you apparently think education is better in western countries .

As usual one has to pay large to get good education and the kids I see ( if they even bother going to school, are a bunch of numpties that probably can't subtract 3 from 5. They are, however, really good at bullying on social media, looking at porn and taking days off to protest about things they don't understand like climate change.

 

I can guarantee you it is (even if you’re not sufficiently educated to understand the PISA educational tables).

I brought my 9 year old Thai stepdaughter to the U.K. where she went to the local government schools (no fees) . There she eventually obtained A levels including Maths and English and thence to university where she had a student loan provided for the fees (no she doesn’t have to repay it unless earning sufficiently) and where she obtained a first class honours in Business Economics and at her first interview she was offered a good graduate job in E commerce. 
So yes, a better education and didn’t have to "pay large". 

[CM Dad]

Thankfully, my son graduated last February after spending twelve years in a small, very expensive, private school.  While he did get a better education than he would have at one of the many overcrowded government schools in town, I am extremely grateful that he is now finished with it and was able to get into an international program at Chiang Mai University.  I chose to send him to a small private school because I could afford it.  He did get a better education than he would have at one of the very large private schools or government schools, but the cost was exorbitant and the quality was still subpar.  CMU is the top-rated university in Chiang Mai, yet I am still skeptical as to the quality.  I am trying to remain optimistic.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, freeworld said:

Well, people are in employment in business, banking, govt and the military and are attending and graduating from colleges and universities.

 

So many when they apply  themselves must be receiving an education.

 

And let them try using those 'qualifications' out in the real world, where the norm is that Thai 'qualifications' are considered worthless.

My wife studied to teach English, and once showed me an exam paper she had been given. On just one A4 page I found something like a dozen errors and corrected them for her to give to the professor, who simply threw it in the bin. Ignorance isn't not knowing, it's not wanting to know, and Thais have than in bucketloads as they will never, ever admit they are wrong about anything.

[Bangkok Barry]

[wensiensheng]

2 hours ago, freeworld said:

Well, people are in employment in business, banking, govt and the military and are attending and graduating from colleges and universities.

 

So many when they apply  themselves must be receiving an education.

Likely from well to do ish families don’t you think? Kids of poor people in rural areas barely make it to age 14 at school. But they can ride a motorbike at age 8.

[gejohesch]

17 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Everything runs perfect for Thailand's political Elite.

Keep the IQ as low as possible. No or low education. Keep them stupid, keep them uniformed, keep them playing with Facebook, TikTok, Line also.

I wonder when students go to the streets and demand better education? 🙏

Some theoricians state that the IQ is a fixed, absolute measure for a given individual. I don't think that's correct. I think most of the people around the world have pretty much the same intellectual potential to start with, regardless of country and ethnic considerations. I think that the IQ depends then to a large extent on the environment and the education system.

So, what about Thailand? With several years of experience, both in big city and in the countryside, both with Thai colleagues at work and with my wife's family and surrounding villagers, I notice that 99% of the people have very little intellectual curiosity, have a very little attention span, never read anything apart of media garbage, etc etc. Thais seem to live in a mega bubble of their own. I know I may sound politically incorrect in saying so, but my impression is that they suffer of some massive brainwashing. Too much quick instant satisfaction (the "sanuk" culture). Too much religion also (a clear case of "the people's opium").

I don't pretend to fully understand the Thais, they are so different to any other people I know...

[NorthernRyland]

Two things holding Thailand back more than anything: lack of critical thinking and the resulting inability to process constructive criticism, which hurts their egos and they lose precious face (except how a child is before they're taught this skill). Until they fix that forget about being a world leader in anything.

[wensiensheng]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and you apparently think education is better in western countries .

As usual one has to pay large to get good education and the kids I see ( if they even bother going to school, are a bunch of numpties that probably can't subtract 3 from 5. They are, however, really good at bullying on social media, looking at porn and taking days off to protest about things they don't understand like climate change.

 

Overall, taking urban and rural schools, education is clearly, on average, better in developed Western countries. That is a simple fact.

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

Some theoricians state that the IQ is a fixed, absolute measure for a given individual. I don't think that's correct. I think most of the people around the world have pretty much the same intellectual potential to start with, regardless of country and ethnic considerations.

this is wrong, at least 50% is genetic so it matters most who your parents are. Lots of research on this but of course it's toxic so the information tends to get repressed.

[thailand49]

2 hours ago, freeworld said:

Well, people are in employment in business, banking, govt and the military and are attending and graduating from colleges and universities.

 

So many when they apply  themselves must be receiving an education.

Then you in the dark as to actually how the country id run and operates.

[NorthernRyland]

5 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

So, what about Thailand? With several years of experience, both in big city and in the countryside, both with Thai colleagues at work and with my wife's family and surrounding villagers, I notice that 99% of the people have very little intellectual curiosity

this is because average IQ in Thailand is ~90. The people in that range always have little intellectual curiosity regardless of where they're from. If you start from a low IQ you can only increase it so much through mental training and even the curiosity won't be there so people won't pursue it unless forced.

[Mayhem11]

Most of this commentary is written by folk who last darkened a classroom for 50 years ago. Typical I understand education because I went to school.

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

Functions as designed.

 

Beat discipline into students.

 

Teach prostration.

 

Haircuts.

 

Uniforms.

 

Bad food.

 

Rote learning.

 

Poor results.

 

 

The last thing the power-that-be wants is an educated populace.

 

 

 

 

 

A certain amount of rote learning is necessary. At the lower levels a great deal of rote learning is necessary. You can't think unless you have something in your head to think about.

[retarius]

Sorry, but this isn't rocket science. All you have to do is copy the way they do things in successful countries like Scandinavia in the west or Singapore, Japan or China here in the East. 

But to be honest, it always starts with a number of competent, able teachers. These able and competent teachers hardly exist here in Thailand. The English teachers I meet (and I have met a lot) very often cannot communicate in English....what is this all about? How can you qualify as an English teacher and be unable to communicate in English? We all say this but until this gaping hole in the middle of the education system is addressed Thailand will simply fall further are further behind as the masses here lose out on the information age. And I wonder how many maths teachers here can do basic algebra or geometry....I think it is likely that if it is ever addressed we will find that the head mathematics teachers here bought his/her posts in 1950's or 60s and can't add 2 + 2. FFS.

I have send two kids here to university. The first one did a teaching degree (five years....in the UK after 5 years you would have a master's degree) here I got a girl who was supposed to be doing English but changed (covertly) to Home Economics because she could understand any English. The other is a boy who has done marvellously, has a really good job in Bangkok, and is making his way in life...the lad was an practically an orphan (well his father was in jail when he was born and his mother didn't want him) BUT he's a grafter and applies himself....I am as pleased with my investment in him as I am disappointed with the investment I made in the girl. 

Changing the education system to compete in the 2030s and 2040s requires a lot of effort and chucking out old ways of thinking. I am not hopeful from what I have seen in Thailand in the last 15 years that the type of people who get into power positions here are capable or interested in solving this problem. 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Students returned to school for the new academic year last week – but most found that little had changed in Thailand’s subpar education system.

No education for the worker ants, just the what the elites want ...

Educated people ask to many questions and want reform.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, happysoul said:

We were living in the country side up North, son went up to P5 in the local school, daughter in P2, so 8 years for the boy and 5 for the girl (counting anuban too). They hardly learned anything, military education, don't ask questions, just learn by heart what the teacher says and NEVER contradict him/her. The teachers in rural places are still considered, as it was 50 years ago, as the knowledge (that they don't have) and considered just under the boss (puyaibaan or kamnan). There is a Thai writer that wrote a book about a young teacher coming to teach in some rural village in the 1970's - 80's (can't remember the name of either book or writer). Well, nothing has changed. And probably not the salaries too. You cannot get a good education system if you don't pay correctly the teachers AND educate them too. But all this needs founding and won't bring back money profits. So probably not a priority (and as said above, keep people ignorant so the gig can continue). My daughter had some hard times going to school (only 2 half Thai kids in the school probably didn't help) and it was a heartbreak to force her put on her uniform (wife and I had to hold her very strong to force it on).

 

We now moved and they go to a private school. Tution budget has gone through the roof (from almost zero to much more ;)) but they love it. Also over with the times we get notified of 1 month holiday the day before it starts, the multiple absence of teachers for "patchoum" (meetings or so called) and have finally educated teachers that know where is thailand on a world map. They now have to forget the teaching style they know, get to ask questions and participate in class. Hopefully they'll get some logic, analytic and critic mindset. For now thinking is not prohibited yet 😉

 

What's quite sad is that 80% of the population cannot afford that kind of education.

 

Today is a day off, daughter is sad as she wanted to go to school, things change 🙂

 

 

 

have to agree based on my experiences.  When my daughter was old enough for Kindergaten, wlife checked around and we opted for what is supposed to be one of the better schools - lasted one year and we moved to find another.  Then moved to one that had many western teachers, daughter was even on their ads for the school but within a month, the school got rid of the western teachers and replaced them with filipinos so we moved again...found a school k-12 with many westernl teachers...daughter now in 4th grade - brought homework about possessive pronouns...but of the 15 sentences, 6 had zero possessive  pronouns so I marked those with red pencil and told my daughter to tell her teacher to contact me if she did not understand what I said.  Of course nothing from the teacher so I went to the school with a copy I had made of that homework - asked the teacher why she didn't get one of the foreign teachers to explain it to her as she obviously had no clue.  She said that they were not allowed to ask the  western teachers for any assistance and that they could not change any of the assignments as they were prepared by the head of the school.  So, on to the head of the school with the paper - she spent at least 20 minutes telling me all her credentials and how great an educator she was until I put the paper on the desk in front of her.  It had my red pencil corrections of course and she said just who did I think I was.  I laughed and said well to begin with I am a parent, second, I am a native speaker of English and I know for a fact that even if you check google it will correct those errors yet you also have native English speakling teachers so ask one of them.  That of course ended the meeting.  The school had always had a 2-year waiting list for new students...then, as they could have 3 teachers for kindergarten the decided that by doing that they could make more money so they fired all the western teachers, dropped from 7th through 12th grade and added 3 more rooms of the k groupers.  I told my wife to search around the country for a better school immediately.  She found a new school in CM so we zoomed up there - it was just opening - school facilities matched any US school I had ever seen before and they were just opening that year so daughter started there.  It only took a month or so before the western teachers began to fade away as the school head was the daughter of a college school head in BKK and she brought a lot of her classmates to the new school but they failed to ever include the western teachers in any meetings or plans.  We left and daughter went to CM intnl school as I knew a lot about them already.  The other school offered my daughter a free scholarship to stay but I laughed at them - and within another 2 years as their contracts expired, all the western teachers left and by then there were no original students there either as parents woke up to the problems.  CMIS is a great school, all English classes, many western teachers and daughter over the next 6 years graduated and was fluent in 4 languages (Chinese (which she taught in 11th grade at another high school), Korean (which she learned on her own at home because she like KPOP and which was in Korean - she scored level 4 on the international Korean test) English and Thai native.  She was accepted at a US college, with full scholarships but they didn't believe my wife planned to return after taking our daughter to the college because I had retired here in Thailand...so the delay in getting approval for my wife to immigrate to the US caused a year delay and daughter opted to go to the #1 college here - Bachelor of arts in Korean language and (intl) culture) and just finished her first year.  She is packing for summer college (Korean language) at the #1 college in Korea, a sister college of her college here in BKK.  Even with her senior year screwed up by COVID, luckily CMIS had already purchased an online education since CMIS has closed previously due to smog and they didn't want their kids to miss any classes.  Daughter is happy, does super in academics and plans her schooling through at least a masters in Korean Language.   So it can be difficult, but in order to be competative when they finish school, one needs to look outside the locally controlled schools.  My eldest daughter spent 10 1/2 years in international schools, graduating in Rome, did college at UMD and today is an assistant CEO of a successful business and is happy doing what she does - she is a computer software specialist too.  Some of the international schools are costly but some are not so costly when it comes to how well they educate western kids and those Thai kids planning to go to western colleges.  If one has school-age kids, it is essential they leave the local schools - and from the articles written, even the senior educators here recognize that there is a problem that won't be fixed anytime soon.  Good luck with one's searches.

[Mywayboy]

Mushroom Education keep em in the dark, feed em on B S.

The less they learn the better for the government 

[charleskerins]

3 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

A school I worked at had a teachers' weekend "retreat" (it was actually just having us hand out pamphlets on the sidewalk for one of their new schools opening in the neighborhood). On Saturday night we were required to provide a teaching lesson. One particular lesson I actually liked was one on critical thinking.

 

The following Monday I tried applying that lesson in one of my classes. A supervisor walked by and shut me down quick, fast, and in a hurry.

sounds like America

[klauskunkel]

Long time ago these "systems" were put in place by the "powers that be". Education system, Justice system, Election system, Legal system, Military, Police - they all existed for one purpose: maintain and protect the status quo. They were allowed to corrupt themselves as long as they fulfilled their purpose, it was their reward.

Then Internet and Social Media showed up and caught these institutions and their representatives with their pants down, sometimes even literally. That momentum is building and those "powers" are aware of it. I'm sure that they are brainstorming behind the scenes on how to counter this...

[Stevemercer]

Duplicate

Edited May 22 by Stevemercer

[Stevemercer]

Duplicate

Edited May 22 by Stevemercer

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

A school I worked at had a teachers' weekend "retreat" (it was actually just having us hand out pamphlets on the sidewalk for one of their new schools opening in the neighborhood). On Saturday night we were required to provide a teaching lesson. One particular lesson I actually liked was one on critical thinking.

 

The following Monday I tried applying that lesson in one of my classes. A supervisor walked by and shut me down quick, fast, and in a hurry.

 

My Thai son attended high school in Singapore. Returned to Thailand. Went to a Thai HS for work experience. Day 1 morning he organised the kids into small groups sitting opposite each other.

 

An then started teaching by starting with a basic comment then the kids had to research on their smartphones / tablets for more information. And their findings presented, by the kids to the whole class. Every group got a turn to talk, every student had to take a turn to make a presentation. Teacher then reinforced the positive and negative points shared by the students. Rote learning gone!

 

Within a couple of hours a deputation to the head mistress by the other teachers who:

 

- Demanded the school stop for the day

- Demanded that my son be removed from the school immediately.

- Demanded that the head mistress give a written guarantee to the teachers that this style of teaching (the pedagogy) would never be seen again.

- Demanded that the head mistress prepare and give every student a one page handout telling them that the old 'principles' still totally applied: E.g. 'Students not allowed to ask questions', .........

[charleskerins]

7 minutes ago, Presnock said:

have to agree based on my experiences.  When my daughter was old enough for Kindergaten, wlife checked around and we opted for what is supposed to be one of the better schools - lasted one year and we moved to find another.  Then moved to one that had many western teachers, daughter was even on their ads for the school but within a month, the school got rid of the western teachers and replaced them with filipinos so we moved again...found a school k-12 with many westernl teachers...daughter now in 4th grade - brought homework about possessive pronouns...but of the 15 sentences, 6 had zero possessive  pronouns so I marked those with red pencil and told my daughter to tell her teacher to contact me if she did not understand what I said.  Of course nothing from the teacher so I went to the school with a copy I had made of that homework - asked the teacher why she didn't get one of the foreign teachers to explain it to her as she obviously had no clue.  She said that they were not allowed to ask the  western teachers for any assistance and that they could not change any of the assignments as they were prepared by the head of the school.  So, on to the head of the school with the paper - she spent at least 20 minutes telling me all her credentials and how great an educator she was until I put the paper on the desk in front of her.  It had my red pencil corrections of course and she said just who did I think I was.  I laughed and said well to begin with I am a parent, second, I am a native speaker of English and I know for a fact that even if you check google it will correct those errors yet you also have native English speakling teachers so ask one of them.  That of course ended the meeting.  The school had always had a 2-year waiting list for new students...then, as they could have 3 teachers for kindergarten the decided that by doing that they could make more money so they fired all the western teachers, dropped from 7th through 12th grade and added 3 more rooms of the k groupers.  I told my wife to search around the country for a better school immediately.  She found a new school in CM so we zoomed up there - it was just opening - school facilities matched any US school I had ever seen before and they were just opening that year so daughter started there.  It only took a month or so before the western teachers began to fade away as the school head was the daughter of a college school head in BKK and she brought a lot of her classmates to the new school but they failed to ever include the western teachers in any meetings or plans.  We left and daughter went to CM intnl school as I knew a lot about them already.  The other school offered my daughter a free scholarship to stay but I laughed at them - and within another 2 years as their contracts expired, all the western teachers left and by then there were no original students there either as parents woke up to the problems.  CMIS is a great school, all English classes, many western teachers and daughter over the next 6 years graduated and was fluent in 4 languages (Chinese (which she taught in 11th grade at another high school), Korean (which she learned on her own at home because she like KPOP and which was in Korean - she scored level 4 on the international Korean test) English and Thai native.  She was accepted at a US college, with full scholarships but they didn't believe my wife planned to return after taking our daughter to the college because I had retired here in Thailand...so the delay in getting approval for my wife to immigrate to the US caused a year delay and daughter opted to go to the #1 college here - Bachelor of arts in Korean language and (intl) culture) and just finished her first year.  She is packing for summer college (Korean language) at the #1 college in Korea, a sister college of her college here in BKK.  Even with her senior year screwed up by COVID, luckily CMIS had already purchased an online education since CMIS has closed previously due to smog and they didn't want their kids to miss any classes.  Daughter is happy, does super in academics and plans her schooling through at least a masters in Korean Language.   So it can be difficult, but in order to be competative when they finish school, one needs to look outside the locally controlled schools.  My eldest daughter spent 10 1/2 years in international schools, graduating in Rome, did college at UMD and today is an assistant CEO of a successful business and is happy doing what she does - she is a computer software specialist too.  Some of the international schools are costly but some are not so costly when it comes to how well they educate western kids and those Thai kids planning to go to western colleges.  If one has school-age kids, it is essential they leave the local schools - and from the articles written, even the senior educators here recognize that there is a problem that won't be fixed anytime soon.  Good luck with one's searches.

"accepted at a US college, with full scholarships but they didn't believe my wife planned to return after taking our daughter to the college because I had retired here in Thailand..."   ?

[proton]

Why cant they all be like Thai government top tier schools which are more like private ones, with high costs it must be said. English to a high standard, foreign history books in English, special dance and drama courses. They have little of the nationalistic flag waving and marching about or wasting hours on other nonsense. Competition to get into them is high. If they can do it for a few schools they can do it for a lot more.

[AhFarangJa]

5 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

The policy is easy, don't educate the people properly as they start to think and see what is going on in the country. That will become a threat to the rich and wealthy , the army and the Government and they will loose their power and grip on the people...No the people have to stay ignorant and those who stand up are putting in jail to prevent that their example will be followed. Talking about updating education will keep the people calm, but it will never happen. Living in Thailand for a long time already I haven't seen nothing new in schools..Only less foreign teachers, as they are being seen to as a threat, because they have Western ideas and could influence the kids.

Correct. The last thing a Government wants is an educated middle, or lower class. As you say, they will lose their grip on the money and power. I also believe that is the reason the Government do not like us Farangs. We bring western ideals, and western intelligence into the villages. Thai ladies married to us get a bigger perspective on life, especially if they spend time in our Home countries, which is then disseminated, albeit it in a small way, into the villages.

[Presnock]

24 minutes ago, ignore it said:

 

Yeah I hear all y'all ragging on about the waiing and haircuts and all the other crap, but...

 

I much prefer that to than to have my kids go and get all "woke" DEI'd,  and gender identified, with the boys playing on the girls team and peeing sitting down in the girls toilet.

 

I was bored poopless throughout my rural US public (free) schooling.  But ya just hang in, finish, get the certificate and go on to work or to get another diploma/degree. 

 

Hopefully finding something your interested in and learning all you can about it.  Maybe even get some more formal education if needed. Or get a job skill like becoming a plumber or electrician etc.

 

With the internet and web, there's absolutely no barriers to learning, but some jobs require the certificates, diplomas, and other qualifications.

 

 

I personnally feel that O and Co should be paying for those college loans as they enticed kids to go without telling them to get a degree in something worthwhile.  Now several generations have just gone to pot and can't find a job that pays them enough to even pay for rent, car and food.  In Calf every AM 600K Americans come from their homes in Mexico to go to work in Calf.  They can't afford any housing in Calf let alone the taxes as the state welcomes illegal immigrants too.  The jobs mentioned above - plumbers, electricians, etc are well paying jobs and yes tech schools would be the way to go until one can decide if they want to stay in that career field or learn something else.  No one seems to be happy anymore there either and with elections (for a couple of losers) coming this year things are not looking any brighter.  I feel sorry for those folks especially since I have family and friends caught in this new world.  I mean when the law allows men to compete in women's sports, allows men to use women's bathrooms,

allows men to use dressing rooms with women, something is drastically wrong.   I am against abortion but I would never ever tell any woman that she is wrong to have an abortion and to tell her what she can and cannot do with her body to me is totally wrong.  I learned many years ago that US elections are run by the wealthy businesses and owners - who groom candidates that will allow them to make even more money...and upon election, all one has to do is look at what the winner does - begins campaigning for the next election and ignores the problems facing the nation.  Now the US Congress is a laughing stock of the whole world as it is so fractured.  The very basic job for them is the budget...they still don't have one for this year which began last year...and open borders allowing unlimited numbers of illegal immigrants to pour into the country and those coming in today won't have a court hearing on their asylum request for more than 5 years so they can roam all around the uS with noone knowing where they are.  Them they take up residence in states that provide free housing, food, education for their kids and some of the states take benefits away from citizens to take care of the immigrants.  Other states have to raise taxes from the citizens to care for the immigrants and their familiers too.  A losing battle for the citizens and after November of this year it will be worse in my opinion.  Do I plan to move back there anytime...no way for sure.  It may not be perfect here but it sure is better than back there.  

[HalAndLois]

4 hours ago, Galong said:

Most often, you can hear them chanting rote rehearsal style.

I was reading a biography of Pol Pot (I know, a little light reading) and it said that the Cambodian word for "education" was related to the word for memorization, left over from long ago when religious education required the memorization of lots of stuff.  Is Thai similar?  That would explain a lot because the very word education would suggest memorization rather than comprehension.  

[Presnock]

Yes, a lot have gone to private schools/international schools and then educated in western colleges.  Many only have positions due to family connections and they do what the owners want.

[Dart12]

if you mean they are not serving the west's propagandic programming of the last 15 years that's a good thing.