Dual Retirement Visas - Thailand/Cambodia

[Random8]

I don't like the way the Thai remittance/income tax situation is developing (or not developing, still too many open questions), so I've decided to spend 190 days outside of Thailand in 2024.  I will reevaluate in 2025 once the tax situation is clearer. Also, I'm setting up my finances to make my 2025 Thai tax burden as close to zero as possible.

 

In Thailand, I'm currently on a 1 year retirement extension of a Non-O visa (800k in the bank).  I went to Cambodia and purchased a 6 month retirement visa there.

 

On my way back to Thailand (I purchased a reentry permit before leaving) the Thai immigration officer (land crossing, Poi Pet) took a long time processing me through.  He kept looking at the Cambodia retirement visa, back at me, back at the visa, over and over again.  It's as if he wanted to object in some way, but wasn't willing to start the discussion or whatever.  Maybe his English skills weren't up to the task.

 

Is anyone else traveling with two retirement visas simultaneously?  Have you run into difficulties with either immigration department?  The Cambodian immigration department apparently didn't object to issuing a retirement visa despite my having an active Thai retirement visa.

 

Will Thai immigration (Udon) object to issuing a new 1 year extension if they see a Cambodian retirement visa in my passport?  Will they say I don't need a one year extension because I don't plan on staying 1 year?  In my opinion, it's none of their damn business, as long as I comply with their 90 reporting requirement, but they won't be interested in my opinion.

 

Thanks in advance to those who can share their similar experiences or an educated guess.

[Pattaya57]

6 minutes ago, Random8 said:

In Thailand, I'm currently on a 1 year retirement extension of a Non-O visa (800k in the bank).  I went to Cambodia and purchased a 6 month retirement visa there.

 

On my way back to Thailand (I purchased a reentry permit before leaving) the Thai immigration officer (land crossing, Poi Pet) took a long time processing me through.  He kept looking at the Cambodia retirement visa, back at me, back at the visa, over and over again.  It's as if he wanted to object in some way, but wasn't willing to start the discussion or whatever.  Maybe his English skills weren't up to the task.

So in summary IO didn't say anything to you about your Cambodia Visa but you think he took a long time to process before letting you into Thailand.

 

How long was a long time to process, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 20 minutes? Why would Thailand care what visa's you held for other countries?

[Yagoda]

Ditch your Thai Visa. Buy a Cambodian Visa. Go back and forth as you chose. 

 

My plan is to spend prime time in Thailand  (Nov and December) then coma and go as I feel like it the rest of the year. 

 

 

[Random8]

3 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Ditch your Thai Visa. Buy a Cambodian Visa. Go back and forth as you chose. 

 

My plan is to spend prime time in Thailand  (Nov and December) then coma and go as I feel like it the rest of the year. 

 

 

I'd prefer to travel back and forth as little as possible.  Unfortunately, I didn't like Cambodia as much as I expected.  Probably won't even use more than 3 months of the Cambodian visa.  Planning on checking out Philippines next, but my expectations are low.

 

I'm hoping this is just a temporary situation.  My goal is to stay in Thailand full time but to legally avoid Thai taxes.  I don't want to jeopardize my Thai retirement visa extension while I'm setting things up.

[Jingthing]

I don't think it should legally matter to Thailand even if you had five permanent residences in your passport. But I understand how double dipping might confuse some officers. Making them think. Not polite!

[Georgealbert]

I previously has a one year Thai marriage extension and one year work visa in another local country, immigration in both countries never raised any issues when traveling in and out, or when it was extension time.

[Eddie45]

I have been thinking about applying for the LTR Visa but I am not sure if I want to invest that amount of money in Thailand. My other option is to live in Thailand for 5.5 months a year and then choose another country to stay 5.5 months in and then use the other month for holidays. Anyone thinking similar should check out the Philippines. Their rules for tourist visa's are really good. You can stay for 3 years on a tourist visa and then you need to leave the country for a few days and can return for another 3 years. The visa needs to be renewed every 2 months. 

[Random8]

I'm looking at the Philippines, but not excited about it.  Pollution, crappy infrastructure and crappy food are my expectations. Catholic, marriage-minded women, no thank you.

 

Also, if you stay longer than 6 months, you need some type of police clearance document before you can leave.  I've heard that it's a hassle to get.  I've heard of expats doing a border run every 5.5 months to avoid getting the police clearance.  Border runs mean taking a flight.

 

I'm also looking at Malaysia.  90 day tourist visa on arrival for Americans.  Land border visa runs are possible for another 90 days.  Great food (in my opinion), good infrastructure, good hospitals.

[JimTripper]

The half & half thing gets crazy. How do you rent a decent place and get the deposit back? Just do 6 month contracts? Stay in short term serviced apartments? You're going to be losing money constantly moving around and paying extra for decent short term accomodations, or living like a backpacker in the nearest guesthouse. You may be better off choosing a single country and moving or just paying the tax.

Edited May 23 by JimTripper

[Caldera]

It's perfectly fine to have a Thai retirement "visa" (extension) and another one elsewhere.

 

The only thing that will matter to your immigration office when extending is that you will continue to meet the (Thai) requirements.

[Eddie45]

11 hours ago, Random8 said:

I'm also looking at Malaysia.  90 day tourist visa on arrival for Americans.  Land border visa runs are possible for another 90 days.  Great food (in my opinion), good infrastructure, good hospitals.

How many 90 day tourist visa's do you think you will get in Malaysia before the Immigration Officers start asking you questions.

Edited May 23 by Eddie45

[bradiston]

15 hours ago, Random8 said:

I'm looking at the Philippines, but not excited about it.  Pollution, crappy infrastructure and crappy food are my expectations. Catholic, marriage-minded women, no thank you.

 

Also, if you stay longer than 6 months, you need some type of police clearance document before you can leave.  I've heard that it's a hassle to get.  I've heard of expats doing a border run every 5.5 months to avoid getting the police clearance.  Border runs mean taking a flight.

 

I'm also looking at Malaysia.  90 day tourist visa on arrival for Americans.  Land border visa runs are possible for another 90 days.  Great food (in my opinion), good infrastructure, good hospitals.

Pollution? You mean in Manila, same as every major city in the world? Crappy infrastructure? Excellent bus services everywhere in Phillipines without the appalling RTA track record that Thailand boasts. Sure, you'll need a ferry or flight between islands. Not a problem. Airports on every major island, even the smaller ones. As for food, well everybody knows it's nothing like in Thailand. But once you get to know an area, you'll find there are plenty of decent places to eat.

 

Your kind of take on Philippines is recycled endlessly here on spoilt, moaning, endlessly complaining Thai retirees. Some sort of insecurity I guess that there might actually be something better out there.

 

The longest I stayed there was 3 months. Involved 2 extensions as I entered on a 30 day, and the fee for the Alien Registration Card, giving you access to bank accounts, for instance.

 

Ok, to be honest, the hotels can be pretty awful. The WiFi can be crap. But like I say, find somewhere that suits you and explore. Many of the islands, out of 7,700, are spectacular, and the beaches. Completely deserted. Totally off the map. Take a girl with you. My 2¢.

Edited May 24 by bradiston

[bradiston]

20 hours ago, Random8 said:

I don't like the way the Thai remittance/income tax situation is developing (or not developing, still too many open questions), so I've decided to spend 190 days outside of Thailand in 2024.  I will reevaluate in 2025 once the tax situation is clearer. Also, I'm setting up my finances to make my 2025 Thai tax burden as close to zero as possible.

 

In Thailand, I'm currently on a 1 year retirement extension of a Non-O visa (800k in the bank).  I went to Cambodia and purchased a 6 month retirement visa there.

 

On my way back to Thailand (I purchased a reentry permit before leaving) the Thai immigration officer (land crossing, Poi Pet) took a long time processing me through.  He kept looking at the Cambodia retirement visa, back at me, back at the visa, over and over again.  It's as if he wanted to object in some way, but wasn't willing to start the discussion or whatever.  Maybe his English skills weren't up to the task.

 

Is anyone else traveling with two retirement visas simultaneously?  Have you run into difficulties with either immigration department?  The Cambodian immigration department apparently didn't object to issuing a retirement visa despite my having an active Thai retirement visa.

 

Will Thai immigration (Udon) object to issuing a new 1 year extension if they see a Cambodian retirement visa in my passport?  Will they say I don't need a one year extension because I don't plan on staying 1 year?  In my opinion, it's none of their damn business, as long as I comply with their 90 reporting requirement, but they won't be interested in my opinion.

 

Thanks in advance to those who can share their similar experiences or an educated guess.

I got a one year retirement visa for Cambodia, thinking I'd hop between here and there, with breaks in Philippines. Then COVID came along. I never used the Cambodian visa once. But getting it wasn't difficult. Along the Phnom Penh river front, a lovely place to hang out btw, there are plenty of agents who'll do it all for you, same as here. I think it was about $380 at that time. Love Phnom Penh. Great places to eat, huge choice of food, even found myself a sauna/spa for daily sweats. Walked everywhere. It's tiny compared to the massive megacities. And bus trips out to the eastern provinces are well worth the effort. And on to Vietnam. It's all too easy here. We get lazy, and sneer at our neighbours.

[khunjeff]

A friend of mine has both a Thai LTR visa and a Cambodian retirement visa, and has never had any problems or questions entering or exiting either country.

[brianthainess]

20 hours ago, Random8 said:

I'd prefer to travel back and forth as little as possible.  Unfortunately, I didn't like Cambodia as much as I expected.  Probably won't even use more than 3 months of the Cambodian visa.  Planning on checking out Philippines next, but my expectations are low.

 

I'm hoping this is just a temporary situation.  My goal is to stay in Thailand full time but to legally avoid Thai taxes.  I don't want to jeopardize my Thai retirement visa extension while I'm setting things up.

You can also stay up to 3 months in Laos. Beautiful country. 

[Korat Kiwi]

16 hours ago, Random8 said:

I'm looking at the Philippines, but not excited about it.  Pollution, crappy infrastructure and crappy food are my expectations. Catholic, marriage-minded women, no thank you.

 

Also, if you stay longer than 6 months, you need some type of police clearance document before you can leave.  I've heard that it's a hassle to get.  I've heard of expats doing a border run every 5.5 months to avoid getting the police clearance.  Border runs mean taking a flight.

 

I'm also looking at Malaysia.  90 day tourist visa on arrival for Americans.  Land border visa runs are possible for another 90 days.  Great food (in my opinion), good infrastructure, good hospitals.

Strange,  I lived in Bohol (Virtually in the middle of the Philippines). Immigration side of things wasn't a problem. 

 

Food is... different.  But you won't starve.  Yes the main religion is Catholic but the girls still wanna have fun. 

 

Regarding a requirement for a police clearance to leave?  I never used one.  And when my other half became a person that didn't like,  I simply hopped onto a plane and left the Philippines. 

 

Fantastic beaches and great diving.  Safer riding for motorbikes too. 

[john donson]

are you toooooo rich to afford renting in both places and spending only half of your time

 

or don't you have any wife/kids/whatever in TH that you can leave half of the year ?

 

just wondering, where in cambodia ? I might think of leaving th for another neighbor

[Phillip9]

18 hours ago, Random8 said:

I'm looking at the Philippines, but not excited about it.  Pollution, crappy infrastructure and crappy food are my expectations. Catholic, marriage-minded women, no thank you.

 

Also, if you stay longer than 6 months, you need some type of police clearance document before you can leave

 

Pollution in Thailand is 100x worse than Phillipines.  Outside of Manila, the air is usually quite clean. 

 

The exit clearance is not hard to get, but does take a few days.

 

The food and dificulty finding a decent place to rent outside of the big cities is the worst part.

[J Branche]

On 5/23/2024 at 11:32 AM, Random8 said:

I don't like the way the Thai remittance/income tax situation is developing (or not developing, still too many open questions), so I've decided to spend 190 days outside of Thailand in 2024.  I will reevaluate in 2025 once the tax situation is clearer. Also, I'm setting up my finances to make my 2025 Thai tax burden as close to zero as possible.

 

In Thailand, I'm currently on a 1 year retirement extension of a Non-O visa (800k in the bank).  I went to Cambodia and purchased a 6 month retirement visa there.

 

On my way back to Thailand (I purchased a reentry permit before leaving) the Thai immigration officer (land crossing, Poi Pet) took a long time processing me through.  He kept looking at the Cambodia retirement visa, back at me, back at the visa, over and over again.  It's as if he wanted to object in some way, but wasn't willing to start the discussion or whatever.  Maybe his English skills weren't up to the task.

 

Is anyone else traveling with two retirement visas simultaneously?  Have you run into difficulties with either immigration department?  The Cambodian immigration department apparently didn't object to issuing a retirement visa despite my having an active Thai retirement visa.

 

Will Thai immigration (Udon) object to issuing a new 1 year extension if they see a Cambodian retirement visa in my passport?  Will they say I don't need a one year extension because I don't plan on staying 1 year?  In my opinion, it's none of their damn business, as long as I comply with their 90 reporting requirement, but they won't be interested in my opinion.

 

Thanks in advance to those who can share their similar experiences or an educated guess.

So the Title should be I do Not want to disclose my foreign earned income situation and No one from Thai Revenue Department has

Personally visited me and explained how the Thai Tax policy will impact you?

 

There is some good information surfacing recently.

Youtube search

Q&A Thailand Personal Income Tax on Foreign Sourced Income

From Expat Tax Thailand I believe provided a lot of useful information 

[Random8]

15 hours ago, Eddie45 said:

How many 90 day tourist visa's do you think you will get in Malaysia before the Immigration Officers start asking you questions.

Well, I only need one border/visa run initially.  Hopefully the tax questions are resolved in 2025.  Tax forms are due in March.

 

I see what you mean though.  I might have to travel around to convince the immigration agents I'm actually a tourist there.  If I keep coming and going across the land border to Thailand, that will surely be a red flag.  I'll probably mix it up by doing border runs to Singapore and Indonesia also.

[Random8]

21 hours ago, JimTripper said:

The half & half thing gets crazy. How do you rent a decent place and get the deposit back? Just do 6 month contracts? Stay in short term serviced apartments? You're going to be losing money constantly moving around and paying extra for decent short term accomodations, or living like a backpacker in the nearest guesthouse. You may be better off choosing a single country and moving or just paying the tax.

I agree with you about the craziness of frequent moves.  Hopefully the money lost due to the inefficiency will be offset by the tax savings.  Also, I really want to avoid a situation where a Thai government official is looking into my finances.  They will not be erring in Farang's favor.  I think, initially, there will be a lot of "overreach" until standards are set and widely known at the different immigration/tax offices.

 

I'm a bit of a homebody.  I'm actually grateful for the motivation to travel that this tax situation has inspired in me.  I am happy to have traveled around Cambodia, though on whole I was disappointed with the country.  I had high expectations.  But now I know.  I'm anticipating a similar experience in the Philippines.

[JimTripper]

12 minutes ago, Random8 said:

I agree with you about the craziness of frequent moves.  Hopefully the money lost due to the inefficiency will be offset by the tax savings.  Also, I really want to avoid a situation where a Thai government official is looking into my finances.  They will not be erring in Farang's favor.  I think, initially, there will be a lot of "overreach" until standards are set and widely known at the different immigration/tax offices.

 

I'm a bit of a homebody.  I'm actually grateful for the motivation to travel that this tax situation has inspired in me.  I am happy to have traveled around Cambodia, though on whole I was disappointed with the country.  I had high expectations.  But now I know.  I'm anticipating a similar experience in the Philippines.

I can't see myself submitting an IRS 1040 to any poor country or agent where people are making so little. It's just too weird divulging that amount of info, including occupation, social security number, etc.

 

Even when I gave a bank statement for the Cambodian visa I cut off the actual account numbers (got called out for it).

 

Have you tried Siem Reap. Lived there for a year. Very affordable. Not bad, but lacks things to do so you might get bored.

Edited May 24 by JimTripper

[Random8]

12 hours ago, bradiston said:

Pollution? You mean in Manila, same as every major city in the world? Crappy infrastructure? Excellent bus services everywhere in Phillipines without the appalling RTA track record that Thailand boasts. Sure, you'll need a ferry or flight between islands. Not a problem. Airports on every major island, even the smaller ones. As for food, well everybody knows it's nothing like in Thailand. But once you get to know an area, you'll find there are plenty of decent places to eat.

 

Your kind of take on Philippines is recycled endlessly here on spoilt, moaning, endlessly complaining Thai retirees. Some sort of insecurity I guess that there might actually be something better out there.

 

The longest I stayed there was 3 months. Involved 2 extensions as I entered on a 30 day, and the fee for the Alien Registration Card, giving you access to bank accounts, for instance.

 

Ok, to be honest, the hotels can be pretty awful. The WiFi can be crap. But like I say, find somewhere that suits you and explore. Many of the islands, out of 7,700, are spectacular, and the beaches. Completely deserted. Totally off the map. Take a girl with you. My 2¢.

 

You don't know me, so you can only speculate.  No offense taken.

 

Health care is important to me.  Hospitals there are not up to snuff.  I've worked in health care for a significant portion of my working life.  The assessment of poor health care comes from former Filipino colleagues.

 

I'm not taking a crack at you, but I always think it's funny when people quote 7,700 islands.  That's a ridiculous exaggeration.  Most of those "islands" are not much more than sandbars with a few palm trees.

 

Anyway, sincerely, thanks for your 2 cents.  I'll eventually pass through there and will try to keep an open mind.

 

[Random8]

11 hours ago, brianthainess said:

You can also stay up to 3 months in Laos. Beautiful country. 

Yes, thanks.  Good idea.  I should probably try there before the Philippines, considering I'm an Isaan fan.  The only problem is the short visa duration.  I need/want 6 months.  I have to research the possibility of doing visa/border runs there.  Maybe in/out of Cambodia, since I have the Cambodia retirement visa already.

[Random8]

10 hours ago, john donson said:

are you toooooo rich to afford renting in both places and spending only half of your time

 

or don't you have any wife/kids/whatever in TH that you can leave half of the year ?

 

just wondering, where in cambodia ? I might think of leaving th for another neighbor

I considered renting in both places.  I visited PP, Kampot, Siem Reap and Battambong and never really felt "at home" in any of those places.  I wouldn't rent long term until I knew it was a place I wanted to come back to.  No familial/close attachments in Thailand.  If I had a wife/kids in Thailand, I wouldn't be looking at splitting my time between the countries.  Like many other expats, I'd just accept my fate here and hope the new tax situation isn't too much of a hassle.

[Pattaya57]

This is just another Thai tax thread sneakily added to the visa forum by stating an IO took too long looking at my other visa, a ridiculous assumption lol

 

I'm still amazed people are making life changing decisions based on a minor tax rule change that nobody understands and no-one knows if it will have any impact at all 

 

Edited May 24 by Pattaya57

[Korat Kiwi]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

This is just another Thai tax thread sneakily added to the visa forum by stating an IO took too long looking at my other visa, a ridiculous assumption lol

 

I'm still amazed people are making life changing decisions based on a minor tax rule change that nobody understands and no-one knows if it will have any impact at all 

 

Maybe they are just needing an excuse to get off their keesters and actually  do it? 

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'm still amazed people are making life changing decisions based on a minor tax rule change that nobody understands and no-one knows if it will have any impact at all 

Agree. Constantly surprised that folk accept this as a given.

Then scurry to thinking about another country for 190 days.

Comical 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, Korat Kiwi said:

Maybe they are just needing an excuse to get off their keesters and actually  do it? 

I even googled keesters.

Still no idea of your point. 

[Pattaya57]

14 minutes ago, Random8 said:

Nobody is sneaking anything.  You can choose to read into the question whatever you want.  It's your problem.  One of the worst aspects of contributing to this ASEAN Now is dealing with people like you, who post irrelevant comments in a failed attempt to make themselves look superior.  Hope you're happy with yourself.  Glad I could provide you with the opportunity.

You're the one posting irrelevant rubbish that an IO looked too long at your other country visa. Deciding you want to live in Thailand but choosing to live somewhere else you dont like as nuch for 186 days a year just to avoid some imagined/unconfirmed tax problem is crazy.

 

Edited May 24 by Pattaya57