Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[SingAPorn]

Why all the rant and fuss ?

 

For those who can, sell your property and shift to another asias country, more welcoming to foreigners. Even many places in the Spanish islands like tenerife or sount of Spain can be great sunny bargains.

[safarimike11]

On 6/5/2024 at 4:40 PM, beammeup said:

But she says "This principle taxes individuals based on their residency within the country, irrespective of whether the income is sourced domestically or internationally". So I am a little confused. Will this affect individuals or just platform(whatever that is)?

I believe they have achieved their objective (all-out confusion).

[Karma80]

12 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

Why all the rant and fuss ?

 

For those who can, sell your property and shift to another asias country, more welcoming to foreigners. Even many places in the Spanish islands like tenerife or sount of Spain can be great sunny bargains.

For many, it's not so simple, including those of us who are not just sitting in the sun in retirement but actively working or in business. Thailand has long since been a destination of choice, as you can strategically structure your business around the lack of CFC rules and remittance-based taxation policy.

But with all of that seemingly in a U-turn and core long-standing economic policy being focussed on tax collection, you're right that it's sensible, depending on your situation, to look to somewhere that offers stability. We have a visa application lodged elsewhere now and are eyeing the exit door before the end of the year. It just makes more sense to us financially, but for many, I doubt the changes will make any real difference and just be annoying in additional accounting.

 

[redwood1]

12 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

Why all the rant and fuss ?

 

For those who can, sell your property and shift to another asias country, more welcoming to foreigners. Even many places in the Spanish islands like tenerife or sount of Spain can be great sunny bargains.

 

Yep..... Just hop on your Lear Jet and go live in one of your mansions in another country.....And avoid the taxes.....Simple.....

 

Unfortunately quite a few farangs are too old and maybe money is to tight to leave and go some where else....

 

Thailand has been encouraging retirees for decades....And yes not doing jack to make retirees life better once they are here....

 

So what is it Thailand?  Do you want retirees or not?

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Yep..... Just hop on your Lear Jet and go live in one of your mansions in another country.....And avoid the taxes.....Simple.....

 

Unfortunately quite a few farangs are too old and maybe money is to tight to leave and go some where else....

 

Thailand has been encouraging retirees for decades....And yes not doing jack to make retirees life better once they are here....

 

So what is it Thailand?  Do you want retirees or not?

I have to agree with this.

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

If you're considered a tax resident all remittance into Thailand is to be declared and, absent of a DTA and supporting documents, taxed as income.

I don't think that is correct. Only assessable income needs to be declared, if no assessable income, no requirement to file a tax form and, in fact, no way to declare this on a tax form.

 

In addition, if there is assessable income but no taxes owed,  there is only a token fee for nto filing and seldom enforced,

 

Unless tax forms are substantially revised, there is no way to declare remittances of funds that are not tax assessable.

[Mike Lister]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't think that is correct. Only assessable income needs to be declared, if no assessable income, no requirement to file a tax form and, in fact, no way to declare this on a tax form.

 

In addition, if there is assessable income but no taxes owed,  there is only a token fee for nto filing and seldom enforced,

 

Unless tax forms are substantially revised, there is no way to declare remittances of funds that are not tax assessable.

I agree also.

[aldriglikvid]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don't think that is correct. Only assessable income needs to be declared, if no assessable income, no requirement to file a tax form and, in fact, no way to declare this on a tax form.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I agree also.

 

 

As my post was written in the context of eighty (80) billion thb International transfers that is forecasted to come in to Thailand this year, from condo purchases alone; of which approx. twenty (20) billion thb already deposited and exchanged into thb this Q1 - I'm very much delighted you both agree on this part. The default of remitannce can't be, practically, that it is assessable income and thus we end up with, practically, a honor system of self declaration. IMHO. 

 

Now, a part of this eighty (80) billion might very well be assessable, and thus taxable - but the essence of my post was that RD have a petty convoluted and difficult task if they choose to use remitannce data as the main point of assessing income. 

[Mike Lister]

54 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

 

 

 

As my post was written in the context of eighty (80) billion thb International transfers that is forecasted to come in to Thailand this year, from condo purchases alone; of which approx. twenty (20) billion thb already deposited and exchanged into thb this Q1 - I'm very much delighted you both agree on this part. The default of remitannce can't be, practically, that it is assessable income and thus we end up with, practically, a honor system of self declaration. IMHO. 

 

Now, a part of this eighty (80) billion might very well be assessable, and thus taxable - but the essence of my post was that RD have a petty convoluted and difficult task if they choose to use remitannce data as the main point of assessing income. 

"The default of remitannce can't be, practically, that it is assessable income and thus we end up with, practically, a honor system of self declaration. IMHO". 

 

It is an honor system that is based on self declaration, if that's what you meant, your English is not entirely simple and straight forward.

[JohnnyBD]

17 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

Why all the rant and fuss ?

 

For those who can, sell your property and shift to another asias country, more welcoming to foreigners. Even many places in the Spanish islands like tenerife or sount of Spain can be great sunny bargains.

Agreed. For those who have options, that's great. For those who don't, not so great. Many will be under the income threshold and not need to pay, and many will not even file. I will simply spend more time visiting my loved ones, and traveling more outside of Thailand with my wife so I stay less than 180 days in country. 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, aldriglikvid said:

but the essence of my post was that RD have a petty convoluted and difficult task if they choose to use remitannce data as the main point of assessing income. 

Indeed. There's no way they could, thus needing to rely on self-declaration. You think that's why they're looking away from remittances, and towards worldwide income, where CRS and FATCA reporting can tell the Thai TRD what's what in Thai tax residents' income? Duh.

[tomazbodner]

Aren't you all pleased Taxin is back to Thailand?

[NanLaew]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:13 PM, bg53 said:

Malaysia, Philippines and as of now Cambodia

 

Malaysia has been on a tax grab for about 4 or 5 years already. Started before Covid.

[Mike Lister]

32 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Aren't you all pleased Taxin is back to Thailand?

You may or may not be joking but the Taksin referred to was King Taksin who ruled from 1767

[beammeup]

So under the new system  Say for example if I cashed out on all of my investment funds in 2025 and was non-resident for tax purposes that year then retired to Thailand in 2026 and lived off of the savings. They would not be assessable income (as long as those savings are not generating income) I would not be taxed on remitting those savings? I could remit as much as I wanted to purchase condo's cars etc...???

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, beammeup said:

So under the new system  Say for example if I cashed out on all of my investment funds in 2025 and was non-resident for tax purposes that year then retired to Thailand in 2026 and lived off of the savings. They would not be assessable income (as long as those savings are not generating income) I would not be taxed on remitting those savings? I could remit as much as I wanted to purchase condo's cars etc...???

You've said you don't trust my answers so rather than respond, I'll just leave you a copy of the tax guide, the answer is in there.

 

 

[beammeup]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You've said you don't trust my answers so rather than respond, I'll just leave you a copy of the tax guide, the answer is in there.

 

 

Thanks but nothanks. I am asking about the new worldwide system not the remittance sytstem.

[JohnnyBD]

21 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Thanks but nothanks. I am asking about the new worldwide system not the remittance sytstem.

There is no new worldwide system in Thailand. That is just speculation at this point. Not to say it can't happen, but it has not happened yet.

[beammeup]

OK under the new "proposed" system

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, beammeup said:

OK under the new "proposed" system

Ah, well, that's very different then. Yes, you are correct.

[tomkenet]

6 minutes ago, beammeup said:

OK under the new "proposed" system

Noone knows yet what rules, rates or even if it will be implemented, not even rd. 

[TheAppletons]

3 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Noone knows yet what rules, rates or even if it will be implemented, not even rd. 

 

  Yes, that's the great thing about trying to arrive at a conclusion to a problem that does not exist.

 

  No matter the conclusion, it's bound to be accurate since it cannot be refuted under a non-existent rule set.

 

  

[kimamey]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:25 AM, lordgrinz said:

I'm guessing "platform" means financial institutions sending money into Thailand, like Wise/Banks/Etc, so they can track money from individuals.

I think it also means platforms like Ebay where people earn money but don't declare it.

[kimamey]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:15 AM, timendres said:

An article on Bangkok Post clearly shows that they are discussing taxing worldwide income.

Currently, only two countries on the planet do this. The USA and Eritrea.

This is a desperate act by the Thai government, and demonstrates that things are not good.

I'm not sure that's correct. In the UK I have to pay tax on any income regardless where it comes from. If I'm not tax resident, for example because I'm out of the country for more than six months, then I only pay tax on my UK income.

[bg53]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Malaysia has been on a tax grab for about 4 or 5 years already. Started before Covid.

 

Malaysia is relatively benign.

 

Unfortunately this is not the forum to discuss details, but you are obviously on top of the tax issues.

[tomkenet]

32 minutes ago, kimamey said:

I'm not sure that's correct. In the UK I have to pay tax on any income regardless where it comes from. If I'm not tax resident, for example because I'm out of the country for more than six months, then I only pay tax on my UK income.

Thailand is proposing a Residence-based, worldwide income  taxation which is the most common while the US has a residence-based and citizenship-based taxation. Nonresident citizens are taxed in the same manner as residents

 

[Ben Zioner]

On 6/11/2024 at 3:00 AM, El Matador said:

I can't wait for the new visas to stay under the 180 days limit to limit the bureaucracy.

You can stay under 180 days with any of the existing visas...

[tomazbodner]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

You may or may not be joking but the Taksin referred to was King Taksin who ruled from 1767

OK, I was referring to Thaksin Shinawatra, or Takki Shinegra... or Tony Woodsome... or...

[Eudaimonia]

I continue to be amazed by how the media operates. Thailand is about to be destroyed as a retirement destination, and many of the country's wealthiest residents are likely to move out if this goes through. Still, reporters have yet to ask for clarifications from the Finance Minister or Prime Minister. Is the Thai language media even reporting this?

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, bg53 said:

Malaysia is relatively benign.

 

Malaysians and their foreign residents might disagree, but

 

11 hours ago, bg53 said:

Unfortunately this is not the forum to discuss details, but you are obviously on top of the tax issues.

 

Fortunately.