Stay & Not Pay.

 

Unless I get fair representation and PR included in the package then this shower of a government wont be getting a single cent from me!

 

plain and simple.

 

bob.

11 minutes ago, bob smith said:

Stay & Not Pay.

 

Unless I get fair representation and PR included in the package then this shower of a government wont be getting a single cent from me!

 

plain and simple.

 

bob.

Plan an simple is that that means it would be the end of your stay just as it is for me. Except you now talk nonsense, but anyways, so you will do 180 days or leave entirely? Or just wait to be caught + fined + prosecuted + sentenced + deported?

 

I game with taxes globally, business wise, since over 1.5 decades. Trust me, if they do this, we are done on a personal level, without paying. Else I would not even have wasted 5 minutes on making this topic, or thinking about what they say in the first place.

My plan is simple.

 

Wife earns good salary in Thailand. She already declared me as her defendant in last 3 tax returns and because of this even received a tax refund.

 

 

Just now, ChaiyaTH said:

Or just wait to be caught + fined + prosecuted + sentenced + deported?

you are getting way ahead of yourself.

 

None of that will happen. Can you imagine if it did? the media frenzy would be enormous!!

 

Plus, I have liquidated all my assets last year so all I have is cash and gold.

 

Thai government can't touch a cent.

 

Look after number 1. Always.

 

bob.

2 minutes ago, bob smith said:

you are getting way ahead of yourself.

 

None of that will happen. Can you imagine if it did? the media frenzy would be enormous!!

 

Plus, I have liquidated all my assets last year so all I have is cash and gold.

 

Thai government can't touch a cent.

 

Look after number 1. Always.

 

bob.

Yes I can imagine it, Thailand does actually need this, to fix their own country itself to begin with. Most countries in the world are already like this as well. For tourism, and people visiting up to 6 months it only improves as well. We expats obviously think they are crazy but the reality is that this plan aligns with every bigger picture since a decade. Last but not least, every decision in recent years ruined Thailand, and also happened, even nobody thought it would.

 

I'm a pretty good analist, rarely wrong, let's hope I am on this one, really.

6 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Yes I can imagine it, Thailand does actually need this, to fix their own country itself to begin with

Why don't they tax their own citizens first domestically on money earned in country? Last I read there were only a handful of workers actually paying tax, most do not. If they can't even get that right then what chance do they have of going after money earned abroad? 

 

Think about it. There are millions of Thais still working off the books in Thailand. 

 

Short answer is, as always, enforcement. You can have all the laws you want but if nobody is going to enforce them then it's pointless. 

 

Bob. 

6 minutes ago, bob smith said:

Why don't they tax their own citizens first domestically on money earned in country? Last I read there were only a handful of workers actually paying tax, most do not. If they can't even get that right then what chance do they have of going after money earned abroad? 

 

Think about it. There are millions of Thais still working off the books in Thailand. 

 

Bob. 

That is the entire point of this change, it mainly targets the Thais, and yes, they are the root cause of the problem (not paying now). However that does not change that we then also should be paying, if living here as a tax resident. That would be the same in my country or most of them.

I agree it is kind of stupid from them, to not first figure out, what things they can do better, or subsidize (like a private school for your children). Because once they actually are harvesting all this tax, Thailand could become pretty decent fast. Specially knowing the population will reduce by 20-30% easily in 2 decades to come.

 

Pretty sure they will eventually give us PR and the like easier too, and allow to do any jobs, as they will be short of people (they are already). However as it stands now, I am certainly not gonna give them my money for taxes too, with what I earn today. They need to offer me something good first.

 

I spend all my adult life here except 18 to 20, 2/3rd of my entire life, it's not easy to leave but for taxes I will.

18 hours ago, connda said:

The last option should have been, "I'm going to kick back, wait, and see what shakes in 2025."

Seems people here forget their reading glasses a lot, the question and poll clearly states what will you do IF IT WOULD BE APPROVED. What does the waiting has to do with this; zero. Poor life mentality too, to not prepare in life and then just say, i will be ignorant and check again in 2025.

33 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

They would simply catch you in that case + you now commit a criminal offense + deported Thailand.

More likely a fine. Are there "debtor's prisons" here? In the USA you can't be jailed for debts.

Just now, JimTripper said:

More likely a fine. Are there "debtor's prisons" here? In the USA you can't be jailed for debts.

you can be jailed for tax evasion though, in the US.

 

bob.

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

So it's the assessability that begins Jan 2025, with first tax return and payment of worldwide income March 2026

 

Does this mean that the pending rule change on taxing remitted funds  will be in effect for about a year until the global income supersedes it?

 

 

Point 1 - Correct. This is always the way changes to tax code are done. Made effective in a  future tax year (typically the next one but could vary) and tax year filings are done by March of the year after a tax year ends e.g by March.

 

Being in effect for 2025 income assumes (1) it goes through (not certain) and (2) it goes through before end if this year (even less certain)

 

Point 2 - also correct to my understanding  but I would  say "if and  until" . The change regarding remittances is now in effect and applues to remittances after 1 January of this year. If/when global taxation comes into effect it would render the remittance rule obsolete/irrelevant. 

 

People on this thread seem to assume this will happen, and be applicable to non-Thai citizens. Neither of these things is at all certain. It is still just a proposal, and would require change to tax law to be effective.

 

It is certainly wise for people to be alert to the possibility, calculate what, if anything, it would cost them  and develop a contingency plan.  But should not treat this as a done deal.

 

Would also be advisable to start making noise now, where policy makers will see it (e.g. letters to the newspapers) and to try to  engage your Embassy by informing them of your concerns.

 

This proposal was developed with wealthy Thais in mind and good bet no thought was given to the impact on resident expat retirees. But as this poll shows, that impact would be huge and in a way that completely undermines government efforts to attract retirees. Government needs to be made aware....and now, before anything is written and submitted for approval. They could certainly opt to either limit the change to Thai citizens (only fair given that resident expats aren't eligible for government benefits) or to exclude certain classes of foreigners (e.g. retirees).

 

 

 

 

I'll ask to get my salary in Bitcoin. 

22 minutes ago, bob smith said:

you can be jailed for tax evasion though, in the US.

 

bob.

I think for evasion there needs to be a known legal debt and a clear attempt to not pay (for example transferring assets). Just not filing does not qualify.

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They could certainly opt to either limit the change to Thai citizens (only fair given that resident expats aren't eligible for government benefits) or to exclude certain classes of foreigners (e.g. retirees).

Which government benefits would that be?

Maybe they could start giving tax-paying foreigners benefits. 

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Would also be advisable to start making noise now, where policy makers will see it (e.g. letters to the newspapers) and to try to  engage your Embassy by informing them of your concerns.

 

This proposal was developed with wealthy Thais in mind and good bet no thought was given to the impact on resident expat retirees.

That might be a great idea, or might bring attention to foreigners, who, as you say, are not being thought of in this proposal. 

2 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

I think for evasion there needs to be a known legal debt and an attempt to not pay. Just not filing does not qualify. So that process would begin on notification of the debt owed. At that point options would be presented, pay a fine, deportation, work in off in jail, whatever.

It's hard enough for the USA to prove tax evasion, let alone TH. 

 

At present, I don't even think there's a system set up for them to know your various income sources.   Let alone be able to tax it, if it's now making it's way through the Thai banking system.

 

My Social Security gets direct deposited in Thai bank, but they have no information on my company pension.  Our investment/interest earned in my brokerage accounts.   If I had rental property, that wasn't Section 8, even the USA IRS wouldn't know about it, let alone TH TRD.

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It's hard enough for the USA to prove tax evasion, let alone TH. 

 

At present, I don't even think there's a system set up for them to know your various income sources.   Let alone be able to tax it, if it's now making it's way through the Thai banking system.

 

My Social Security gets direct deposited in Thai bank, but they have no information on my company pension.  Our investment/interest earned in my brokerage accounts.   If I had rental property, that wasn't Section 8, even the USA IRS wouldn't know about it, let alone TH TRD.

I think they can't find out about your information unless you remit it to Thailand in your bank. If they see x amount of money coming in regularly, they could pull you in and it would be up to you to prove where this money comes from.

I might start volunteering (doubtful) my taxes money, when they start treating me like a Thai tax payer.

 

When we start paying the same, I expect the same.

... no foreigner surcharge at govt hospital.

... entrance fees at Thai Nasional Parks & attractions

... owning land would be nice.

 

Same rights all tax paying or not, that nationalities, including Thas have in the USA.

I will just spend 190 days in Europe in my apartment, especially during the summer months. And my son is delighted.

So, maybe this new tax regime is doing me a favour.

Cambodia is the obvious choice. It gets better every year. Easy visa terms, no 90-day reports and just a good retirement experience.

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I think they can't find out about your information unless you remit it to Thailand in your bank. If they see x amount of money coming in regularly, they could pull you in and it would be up to you to prove where this money comes from.

That they have already, and it's only Soc Sec.  Any other funds I bring in, it's via ATM, and simply for convenience of use, not for evasion.   Don't know how they would track that, or tell if I'm not a tourist simply making a withdrawal.   Besides, I could easily keep that amount below taxable levels, especially since my pittance of a pension wouldn't be taxable anyway, since married & over 65.

 

I'd have to bring in over another ฿570 or ฿670k I think, from earlier calculation of deductions allowed.

I will just continue to live as normal. If have to pay tax, then just do that. Why so much hassle over this? Want to live tax free? Move to UAE 😉 

1 hour ago, Gottfrid said:

I will just continue to live as normal. If have to pay tax, then just do that. Why so much hassle over this? Want to live tax free? Move to UAE 😉 

Hey you’re right, just piss away a million baht a year on nothing, yeah that’s fine. 

just the same as before I have no tax to pay as I have done my calculations on all my income into Thailand with all the discounts and tax agreements so will wait and see.  I will file a tax return and wait for the very little chance of me being picked out for a audit and prove with my documents i have no tax to pay. it will not be worth there time and money to collect no tax or very little tax from me.    when they see this policy costing them more money than they will get they will drop it but for now I will. wait and see.  

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Which government benefits would that be?

Maybe they could start giving tax-paying foreigners benefits. 

Above all, enrollment in the government universal health care scheme.

 

Would be a great benefit for expat retirees, especially the many who are unable to get private insurance. Very unlikely to happen tho.

 

But the point can be made in  dialogue with government policy makers to support the idea that  global taxation should be limited to Thai citizens. 

23 minutes ago, Everyman said:

Hey you’re right, just piss away a million baht a year on nothing, yeah that’s fine. 

All to their own. I have no problem with it, and I actually will be pissing away around 2 million baht every year. But, that is if you want to live in Thailand? Complaining doesn´t work.

The bare minimum and I mean the minimum of minimums would be to get rid of 90 day reporting for tax payers. No?

I refuse to pay tax here.

 

Currently, I'm working a lot overseas, so spend less than 180 days per year in Thailand, as things stand, this excludes me from having to pay tax here.

 

I'm not sure on the 'bringing in money from overseas issues'...   We have plenty of bills here, School feels, Mortgage and plenty of other monthly costs, Healthcare etc

 

I transfer money into my Wife as a 'Gift'...  (I think that can be up to 15 million baht per year)

 

I estimate about 3.5 MB gets transferred into Thailand each year.

 

If I had to pay tax on that, I just wouldn't - we'd leave for a country where the tax actually does something for us. 

 

 

 

Those on retirement visas/extension, already pay more taxes than most Thais, simply via the VAT.

800k @ 7% = 56k yearly

We pay the same RE Tax, via wife or if condo owner

We pay the road tax, for use of

We pay the petrol tax if using

Tax on our utilities; water/electric.

 

We get charged extra for most other non essentials;

... parks & attractions

... hospital visit, though far from non essential

 

We would get nothing extra for additional income tax payments.  Still have to ask to stay every year.   Do a pulse check every 90 days.  Limited to work, limited to own land/home (condo only).

 

No healthcare benefit, and just the opposite, charge a 'foreigner fee'

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Point 1 - Correct. This is always the way changes to tax code are done. Made effective in a  future tax year (typically the next one but could vary) and tax year filings are done by March of the year after a tax year ends e.g by March.

 

Being in effect for 2025 income assumes (1) it goes through (not certain) and (2) it goes through before end if this year (even less certain)

 

Point 2 - also correct to my understanding  but I would  say "if and  until" . The change regarding remittances is now in effect and applues to remittances after 1 January of this year. If/when global taxation comes into effect it would render the remittance rule obsolete/irrelevant. 

 

People on this thread seem to assume this will happen, and be applicable to non-Thai citizens. Neither of these things is at all certain. It is still just a proposal, and would require change to tax law to be effective.

 

It is certainly wise for people to be alert to the possibility, calculate what, if anything, it would cost them  and develop a contingency plan.  But should not treat this as a done deal.

 

Would also be advisable to start making noise now, where policy makers will see it (e.g. letters to the newspapers) and to try to  engage your Embassy by informing them of your concerns.

 

This proposal was developed with wealthy Thais in mind and good bet no thought was given to the impact on resident expat retirees. But as this poll shows, that impact would be huge and in a way that completely undermines government efforts to attract retirees. Government needs to be made aware....and now, before anything is written and submitted for approval. They could certainly opt to either limit the change to Thai citizens (only fair given that resident expats aren't eligible for government benefits) or to exclude certain classes of foreigners (e.g. retirees).

 

 

 

 

 

I am sorry to inform you that the rich Thais already have all the loopholes to avoid paying taxes in Thailand, this new directive is to hit the easiest ones who do not have tax lawyers to advise, that is, the Thai middle class and expats where it is easy to do checks because our governments are very keen to communicate all tax information about us