BYD Oh what a feeling, thrown under the bus.

[DUNROAMIN]

 

[mistral53]

The auto 'expert' out for click-bait again.......lol

 

I didn't listen to, or read the whole story in its entirety - but but the gist of it is this cool family drove a BYD for 15 month, put 12,000 km on it and then wanted their money back? or is it all just a scam so they could be in the news? and their story milked as click-bait by more idiots for some YT $$?

 

I am not defending BYD how or if they (mis)handled(?) this case, they probably could have responded better, but if anything it goes to show that any glitch in an EV is gobbled up with alacrity by some ideologists.

 

One commenter sums it up succinctly:

Unless BYD were refusing to replace the battery, this seems like a beatup. Did I miss something? The idea of full refunds under warranty is practically unheard of in almost any retail experience. This failure sounds unfortunate but not unusual that a car broke down under warranty.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

The auto 'expert' out for click-bait again.......lol

 

I didn't listen to, or read the whole story in its entirety - but but the gist of it is this cool family drove a BYD for 15 month, put 12,000 km on it and then wanted their money back? or is it all just a scam so they could be in the news? and their story milked as click-bait by more idiots for some YT $$?

 

I am not defending BYD how or if they (mis)handled(?) this case, they probably could have responded better, but if anything it goes to show that any glitch in an EV is gobbled up with alacrity by some ideologists.

 

One commenter sums it up succinctly:

Unless BYD were refusing to replace the battery, this seems like a beatup. Did I miss something? The idea of full refunds under warranty is practically unheard of in almost any retail experience. This failure sounds unfortunate but not unusual that a car broke down under warranty.

Byd replaced the battery under warranty and they were provided with a replacement car while their car was in the workshop

mileage was 33,000 km not 12,000 km

“Battery failure is not a characteristic of the model, and this appears to be an isolated incident that occurred after 14 months and 33,000 kilometres on the road,” a spokeswoman said.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-were-team-byd-canberra-familys-chinese-ev-nightmare/news-story/68e4c5c1640b75df2fa46d26a3b160c0

 

[KhunLA]

Thumbnails make it so easy to know which threads to ignore ... 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

On 6/26/2024 at 3:50 PM, DUNROAMIN said:

 

What a load of verbal diarrhoea !!

Do he ever get to the point ?

[Fruit Trader]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Thumbnails make it so easy to know which threads to ignore ... 

 

 

 

 

Lived in China for 15 years married to a Chinese doctor made several successful TV shows about China.

When Chinese social media made threats he moved to the US and attacked back with all the negatives.

 

 

 

 

Australian car salesman and YouTube drama queen.

 

 

 

 

[tomazbodner]

I expected car expert, not a dementic old fart who loves the sound of his own voice

[Bandersnatch]

I’ve owned a BYD Seal AWD Performance here in Thailand since November last year and love the car.

 

For some balance here is one of my videos

 

 

[Photoguy21]

15 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Byd replaced the battery under warranty and they were provided with a replacement car while their car was in the workshop

mileage was 33,000 km not 12,000 km

“Battery failure is not a characteristic of the model, and this appears to be an isolated incident that occurred after 14 months and 33,000 kilometres on the road,” a spokeswoman said.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-were-team-byd-canberra-familys-chinese-ev-nightmare/news-story/68e4c5c1640b75df2fa46d26a3b160c0

 

Since when has battery failure been a characteristic of any car?

[JBChiangRai]

56 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Since when has battery failure been a characteristic of any car?

 

Since Toyota and their recall of 1.9M cars over battery problems (risk of fire).

[JBChiangRai]

I wonder when the op will have DUNTROLLIN

[Photoguy21]

22 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Since Toyota and their recall of 1.9M cars over battery problems (risk of fire).

I assume you are referring to EV's.

[JBChiangRai]

23 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Since when has battery failure been a characteristic of any car?

 

2 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I assume you are referring to EV's.

 

You said any car!

[Photoguy21]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

You said any car!

Yes and I stand by that. If there are significant problems with EV batteries then maybe you should think about the quality of the vehicles. For everyone who likes EV's fine buy them and enjoy them but be aware you may face substantial costs when something goes wrong and the resale value wont be worth getting.

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Yes and I stand by that. If there are significant problems with EV batteries then maybe you should think about the quality of the vehicles. For everyone who likes EV's fine buy them and enjoy them but be aware you may face substantial costs when something goes wrong and the resale value wont be worth getting.

 

I prefer to rely on the Swiss bankers UBS who paid an engineering company to strip down a BYD Seal and report on it.

 

Their report (predictably to the German Automaker Industry) warned those automakers that they had a problem.  Because usually when a car is cheaper, the quality is less and conversely when a car is more expensive the quality increases.  They warned that German Automakers have a problem because not only is the price cheaper, the quality is excellent and the Chinese are at least a generation ahead.

 

In many ways, German Automakers are ahead of the curve for EV cars, VAG, Mercedes & BMW have been providing EV's and PHEV's for quite a few years.  If they are a generation behind the Chinese, imagine how bad it is for Japanese & American automakers, Stellantis and others in Europe.

 

In terms of quality, Toyota are buying BYD's blade batteries for new EV's as are Mercedes.

 

On the matter of resale value, the Thai market is seeing no disparity between EV's and ICE.

 

3 years ago I bought a very expensive new BEV from VAG, I sold it on it's 2nd birthday and I now have a BYD Seal.  The quality is almost identical.

[proton]

Do not support the CCP economy any more than you have to. We all know the vast amounts of produce, parts of phones and cars etc from there, but we don't have to buy their cheap inferior cars as well.

[JBChiangRai]

39 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I prefer to rely on the Swiss bankers UBS who paid an engineering company to strip down a BYD Seal and report on it.

 

Their report (predictably to the German Automaker Industry) warned those automakers that they had a problem.  Because usually when a car is cheaper, the quality is less and conversely when a car is more expensive the quality increases.  They warned that German Automakers have a problem because not only is the price cheaper, the quality is excellent and the Chinese are at least a generation ahead.

 

In many ways, German Automakers are ahead of the curve for EV cars, VAG, Mercedes & BMW have been providing EV's and PHEV's for quite a few years.  If they are a generation behind the Chinese, imagine how bad it is for Japanese & American automakers, Stellantis and others in Europe.

 

In terms of quality, Toyota are buying BYD's blade batteries for new EV's as are Mercedes.

 

On the matter of resale value, the Thai market is seeing no disparity between EV's and ICE.

 

3 years ago I bought a very expensive new BEV from VAG, I sold it on it's 2nd birthday and I now have a BYD Seal.  The quality is almost identical.

 

31 minutes ago, proton said:

Do not support the CCP economy any more than you have to. We all know the vast amounts of produce, parts of phones and cars etc from there, but we don't have to buy their cheap inferior cars as well.

 

Whilst I sure your sentiments on the CCP, principles are expensive.

 

Their cars are cheap, but as UBS pointed out they are superior not inferior.

[Lacessit]

Cars do wear out eventually.

 

ICE's get crushed and recycled back into steel.

 

The big question is what's going to happen when EV's loaded with very toxic materials in their batteries need recycling. There are reports already of landfills catching fire, caused by lithium batteries.

[Bandersnatch]

40 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The big question is what's going to happen when EV's loaded with very toxic materials in their batteries need recycling. There are reports already of landfills catching fire, caused by lithium batteries.

 

Every wondered what happens to the Lead in the Battery of an ICE car?

 

If you didn't know Lead is very toxic 

"Lead is a naturally occurring toxic metal found in the Earth's crust. Its widespread use has resulted in extensive environmental contamination"

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health

 

BYDs use LiFePO4 in their batteries

"LiFePO4 batteries are non-toxic, non-contaminating and contain no rare earth metals, making them an environmentally conscious choice"

https://www.relionbattery.com/knowledge/how-are-lifepo4-batteries-safer-than-other-lithium-batteries#:~:text=If you're selecting a,them an environmentally conscious choice.

 

"when the batteries run down, 99 percent of this lead is recycled to make new batteries"

https://e360.yale.edu/features/getting-the-lead-out-why-battery-recycling-is-a-global-health-hazard#:~:text=An estimated 85 percent of,recycled to make new batteries.

 

Price for Lead: 2,200 USD/MT

Price for Lithium 15,500 USD/MT

 

99% of the lead in Lead acid batteries is recycled, but you think that Li which is worth 7xs as much is sent to landfill  

 

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Every wondered what happens to the Lead in the Battery of an ICE car?

 

If you didn't know Lead is very toxic 

"Lead is a naturally occurring toxic metal found in the Earth's crust. Its widespread use has resulted in extensive environmental contamination"

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health

 

BYDs use LiFePO4 in their batteries

"LiFePO4 batteries are non-toxic, non-contaminating and contain no rare earth metals, making them an environmentally conscious choice"

https://www.relionbattery.com/knowledge/how-are-lifepo4-batteries-safer-than-other-lithium-batteries#:~:text=If you're selecting a,them an environmentally conscious choice.

 

"when the batteries run down, 99 percent of this lead is recycled to make new batteries"

https://e360.yale.edu/features/getting-the-lead-out-why-battery-recycling-is-a-global-health-hazard#:~:text=An estimated 85 percent of,recycled to make new batteries.

 

Price for Lead: 2,200 USD/MT

Price for Lithium 15,500 USD/MT

 

99% of the lead in Lead acid batteries is recycled, but you think that Li which is worth 7xs as much is sent to landfill  

 

Lead is recycled because it is easy to do so. Its melting point is just under 330 C, and it is comparatively non-reactive.

 

Lithium is a completely different kettle of fish. It is highly reactive with air and water, getting it back to metal suitable for re-use is a major technical operation.

 

Do you really think the lithium batteries in our smartphones and laptops are responsibly recycled? How many EV's do you think are out there with the not so innocent fluoride variation?

 

EV Li-ion batteries contain cathode (NMC or LFP), anode (Graphite or Silicon), separator (PVDF polymer) and Electrolyte. Cathode and anode are coated on Al and Cu current collectors respectively. So, in the case of NMC batteries, main metals present are lithium, manganese, cobalt, nickel, graphite, Aluminum and copper.

 

Environmentally conscious? Not with all those elements present.

[JBChiangRai]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Lead is recycled because it is easy to do so. Its melting point is just under 330 C, and it is comparatively non-reactive.

 

Lithium is a completely different kettle of fish. It is highly reactive with air and water, getting it back to metal suitable for re-use is a major technical operation.

 

Do you really think the lithium batteries in our smartphones and laptops are responsibly recycled? How many EV's do you think are out there with the not so innocent fluoride variation?

 

EV Li-ion batteries contain cathode (NMC or LFP), anode (Graphite or Silicon), separator (PVDF polymer) and Electrolyte. Cathode and anode are coated on Al and Cu current collectors respectively. So, in the case of NMC batteries, main metals present are lithium, manganese, cobalt, nickel, graphite, Aluminum and copper.

 

Environmentally conscious? Not with all those elements present.

 

All those elements you mention make recycling Lithium batteries a profitable operation.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of recycling going on as Lithium batteries begin to reach their end of life in the next 20 years or so.

[Bandersnatch]

42 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Lead is recycled because it is easy to do so

 

You already been proved wrong saying the BYDs batteries are toxic and now you claim that recycling is only done "because it is easy to do so" recycling happens because it's economic to do so.

 

I never claimed EV batteries are easy to recycle in fact they tend to be used in second life applications first

 

 

but EV recycling is happening despite you claiming it's too difficult to do.

 

 

"EV Battery Recycling Is on the Rise

Globally, EV battery recycling capacity is expanding. Battery cell manufacturers are building recycling facilities on-site or close-to-site. Independent recyclers are starting to invest in their own Li-Ion battery recycling plants. Over the past two years alone, more than 20 companies in the automotive and recycling sectors have announced plans for new partnerships"

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2023/striking-gold-with-ev-battery-recycling

 

 

 

[billd766]

On 6/28/2024 at 9:25 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:

What a load of verbal diarrhoea !!

Do he ever get to the point ?

He lost me around the 3 minutes 35 seconds when he went into an advert. I wonder if he ever finished the story as that is where I dumped the video.

[transam]

As usual on the EV threads, anything negative about EV's, the EV owners go all shirty, stomping feet, unbutton their blouses....Sooo, funny....🤣

 

Why not accept that most things go wrong at some time...🤗

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

All those elements you mention make recycling Lithium batteries a profitable operation.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of recycling going on as Lithium batteries begin to reach their end of life in the next 20 years or so.

You may be right. However, some recycling operations create more problems than they solve. Polymers are a good example.

 

There's a site near Stawell in Australia that was supposed to recycle tyres into diesel and steel. It's become a huge fire headache for the local EPA instead.

[ballpoint]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

All those elements you mention make recycling Lithium batteries a profitable operation.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of recycling going on as Lithium batteries begin to reach their end of life in the next 20 years or so.

 

There's currently more recycling capacity than demand, as most batteries are still fairly new, so there are relatively few "end of life" (EOL) batteries available for recycling.  It also make sense for battery manufacturers to build recycling facilities, both to recover raw materials from future depleted batteries, and make use of excess materials from the production of them:

 

"For now, roughly half of recycling plants’ feedstock material is made up of production scrap from battery factories, including electrode offcuts and faulty cells. But over the next decade, EOL batteries will come to dominate that feedstock as battery production becomes more efficient and the availability of EOL batteries grows.

While recyclers wait for those EOL batteries to arrive, a lot of their current capacity is underused. “On a global basis, we have much more capacity than what we need,” Melin says."

 

Lithium-ion battery recycling goes large (acs.org)

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

You already been proved wrong saying the BYDs batteries are toxic and now you claim that recycling is only done "because it is easy to do so" recycling happens because it's economic to do so.

 

I never claimed EV batteries are easy to recycle in fact they tend to be used in second life applications first

 

 

but EV recycling is happening despite you claiming it's too difficult to do.

 

 

"EV Battery Recycling Is on the Rise

Globally, EV battery recycling capacity is expanding. Battery cell manufacturers are building recycling facilities on-site or close-to-site. Independent recyclers are starting to invest in their own Li-Ion battery recycling plants. Over the past two years alone, more than 20 companies in the automotive and recycling sectors have announced plans for new partnerships"

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2023/striking-gold-with-ev-battery-recycling

 

 

 

That's repurposing, not recycling. When those batteries fail, what then? The composition of a lead- acid battery is simple, EV batteries are not. They are very complex systems.

 

You are claiming the recycling is profitable, have you actually seen the accounts, profit and loss, balance sheet? My guess would be they are heavily subsidised.

 

It's news to me compounds such as fluoride, nickel, cobalt, phosphorus, copper and aluminium are not environmentally toxic, kindly post a link that supports your assertion.

[Bandersnatch]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

That's repurposing, not recycling. When those batteries fail, what then? The composition of a lead- acid battery is simple, EV batteries are not. They are very complex systems.

 

You are claiming the recycling is profitable, have you actually seen the accounts, profit and loss, balance sheet? My guess would be they are heavily subsidised.

 

It's news to me compounds such as fluoride, nickel, cobalt, phosphorus, copper and aluminium are not environmentally toxic, kindly post a link that supports your assertion.

 

This discussion is about BYD  - see the title. As I previously posted BYD's LFP batteries aren't toxic (see the link I posted)

 

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

kindly post a link that supports your assertion

 

My replies  to you all have links supporting my assertions - you on the other hand are flying "Link-Free"

[In the jungle]

So where exactly is the EV battery recycling plant in Thailand?

 

Or, in the alternative, where are the contractual obligations on EV manufacturers to take their batteries back and recycle them?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

This discussion is about BYD  - see the title. As I previously posted BYD's LFP batteries aren't toxic (see the link I posted)

 

 

My replies  to you all have links supporting my assertions - you on the other hand are flying "Link-Free"

 

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

This discussion is about BYD  - see the title. As I previously posted BYD's LFP batteries aren't toxic (see the link I posted)

 

 

My replies  to you all have links supporting my assertions - you on the other hand are flying "Link-Free"

As I have a degree in chemistry, and about 45 years experience in industry, I consider I don't need links to things I already know.

 

I quote: " You already been proved wrong saying the BYDs batteries are toxic" Brush up on your syntax, please.

 

Post your proof BYD batteries are not toxic, and they do not contain environmental contaminants such as nickel, phosphorus, cobalt, aluminium copper etc.

 

If you are mug enough to believe a link published by a EV battery manufacturer, with a vested interest in brandishing their purported environmental credentials, there's not much more to say.