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Posted

Adam,

isYes indeed have posted this and one further thing os the 50%  Pension Income 100k and think the Personal Allowance for wife you does not work is 60k and if and when required a dual tax form to be submitted  and yes have posted a fair bit on my experiences in the last week and before.

Posted
1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

TBH I'm unsure of my maths now as I used this site https://ata-outsourcing.com/calculate-your-personal-income-tax/ which says that if you have an income of 84,000 pm you'll pay 6,900 THB tax which comes out at 82,800 

 

But if I do it myself using the published tax bands then I come up with 

  • 60K @ 0% = 0 (Personal Allowance)
  • 150K @ 0% = 0
  • 150K @5% = 7,500
  • 200K @ 10% = 20,000 
  • 250K @ 15% =  37,500
  • 190K @ 20% = 38,000

... Total of 103,000 THB  - So it might be you owe 21K pa if you've already paid UK Tax on the 1Million remitted. 

 

Obviously if you have additional allowances (e.g. Wife, Kids, >65, Health Insurance etc...) then the number comes down. 

You are missing quite a lot in allowances

Even if not a pensioner 

a better site is https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

but even then it can’t account for the Thai OAP allowance nor received pension allowance or foreign tax paid

  • Thanks 1
Posted
4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are missing quite a lot in allowances

Even if not a pensioner 

a better site is https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

but even then it can’t account for the Thai OAP allowance nor received pension allowance or foreign tax paid

 

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are missing quite a lot in allowances

Even if not a pensioner 

a better site is https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

but even then it can’t account for the Thai OAP allowance nor received pension allowance or foreign tax paid

 

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are missing quite a lot in allowances

Even if not a pensioner 

a better site is https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

but even then it can’t account for the Thai OAP allowance nor received pension allowance or foreign tax paid

 

Posted
16 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

 

Precisely sometime  the over age (OAE) 65 190k is not listed anywhere on present forms as is the 100K 50% Pension Income and also 150K Exempt tax allowance for everyone of 150K but in the tax  tables!!!
Many do not work at all but are entitled  to the above in addition to those listed before in various posts and the form youe mentioned seemed to suggestvthose who are working.
Many well under the 560K possible tax ememption and these have been stated but not all are on the forms and as stated was told again by my local Revenue office today just to wait and they had no idea of this but others stating new formsare being implemented  later on this year.

The exemptions far outweigh  what I am getting with my State pension and other income and am not emplpyed.

 

 

21 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are missing quite a lot in allowances

Even if not a pensioner 

a better site is https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

but even then it can’t account for the Thai OAP allowance nor received pension allowance or foreign tax paid

 

Posted
36 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are missing quite a lot in allowances

Even if not a pensioner 

a better site is https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

but even then it can’t account for the Thai OAP allowance nor received pension allowance or foreign tax paid

Thanks, I note that the UOB site comes back with 84,600 on 84K (1,008,000 THB pa) as it gives everybody a 100K "Expenses" Allowance but I'm not sure what the criteria is for being able to claim this is. I know it's available for employment & pension income but I don't know if you could claim it if you were living on Rental/Dividend income. 

 

However, in my mind I was thinking of somebody with the bare minimum allowances remitting pension already taxed in the UK so I should have also included this 100K allowance alongside the 60K personal allowance. 

 

 

Posted
45 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Precisely sometime  the over age (OAE) 65 190k is not listed anywhere on present forms as is the 100K 50% Pension Income and also 150K Exempt tax allowance for everyone of 150K but in the tax  tables!!!

 

I think your computer is acting up again.

 

the tax forms are not available yet

 

the 100k possible pension allowance is a DTA thing so not listed

there is no “150K Exempt tax allowance for everyone”

it is that the first 150k in assessed income is taxed at zero a subtle but important distinction 

The calculators are provided for individuals who are working in Thailand so not surprising that they don’t account for pensions or DTAs

https://www.moneymgmnt.com/tax/thailand-tax-calculator/

is an editable spreadsheet so you can add things

 

Provisionally my personal assessable income before I need to pay tax is at ฿57,500 per month and SWMBO has life insurance policies that will increase that amount and I haven’t included tax relief from the DTA

IMG_1061.thumb.jpeg.efef4867fbe6d5c194f078f7445d0f00.jpeg

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think your computer is acting up again.

 

the tax forms are not available yet

 

the 100k possible pension allowance is a DTA thing so not listed

there is no “150K Exempt tax allowance for everyone”

it is that the first 150k in assessed income is taxed at zero a subtle but important distinction 

The calculators are provided for individuals who are working in Thailand so not surprising that they don’t account for pensions or DTAs

https://www.moneymgmnt.com/tax/thailand-tax-calculator/

is an editable spreadsheet so you can add things

 

Provisionally my personal assessable income before I need to pay tax is at ฿57,500 per month and SWMBO has life insurance policies that will increase that amount and I haven’t included tax relief from the DTA

IMG_1061.thumb.jpeg.efef4867fbe6d5c194f078f7445d0f00.jpeg

 

What is the 100k you have listed as expenses?  If my question is too intrusive, my apologies.  I was just interested in that figure under "expenses" and what it comprised of.

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Posted
37 minutes ago, samtam said:

If the tax free allowance is GBP12,500, is the GBP17,000 (GBP4,500 above tax free) the minimum HMRC can be bothered to tax you?

I have no idea where the idea that you start paying tax in the U.K. at amounts over £17,000 

HMRC is convinced that you start paying tax at £12,500 unless you have something other than the basic allowance.

You can be very sure that HMRC will collect 20% in each pound over any allowance you may have.

  • Agree 1
Posted
39 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not intrusive. It is a standard allowance for all, there is nothing required for proof

 

NB the figures I give above are provisional. I am going to have a conversation with a tax accountant next month 

 

nothing I have posted is advice, it maybe totally wrong.

Appreciate it  very much and yes as I stated do not work do my taxable income is zero and be interesting how your meeting wth the Accountant in August  so oviously it will not be in my figures at all.
At the moment a very old PND 90 Personal Income tax list 60k twice and classified Personal Income Tax
PND 91 is titled Personal Income from Employment only has the 120k or 220k amounts listed.
We shall see in due course and thanks again
The form is for employment income of B57500.00 from Thailand  is that correct or does it include other income so what happens to the 1st exempt tax of 150k then assume we have to claim and not very clear at all but we await the forms and again been advised today by my local Revenue office but even they do not know!!!

Posted
19 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Firstly, you have to live in that "main house" for 12 months, otherwise, any capital gain can be taxed.

 

I have never suggested it's not going to be chaos.  I have never suggested this is a well thought out and well planned policy.  I have never suggested the TRD has been recruiting and training staff to gear up for this. 

 

What I have suggested is the Thai's won't miss a chance to turn a baht out of it.  It could be as simple as paying 500 baht for a TRD document for your extension, much in the way you pay 300 baht for a Certificate of Residence, even though they are free. 

 

It could also be showing the TRD a balance sheet from your bank showing total money deposited and that's what you pay in tax. 

 

I don't know what January to March 2025 is going to look like, and neither do you, but I can't see the Thai's missing out on their chance for more MONEY from farang, especially when this is a global tax. 

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked another member.  Say this does all just go away, how do you think the Thai's will withdraw from it? 

My reply same as Stat's 

Posted

Regarding allowances exemptions and other deductions, they are fairly well documented and will probably be allowed for foreigners at the same amounts and under the same terms as Thais.  However, there is absolutely no certainty over Expats using the provisions of the DTAs involved to gain additional exemptions, allowances, or tax credits.  As one TRD publication has stated, just for them agreeing to tax credits, they recommend Expats get an official tax payment certificate from their home country's Taxation Department - and that is not an easy thing to do - especially when the start/end of the financial years do not line up (see last page).  Foreign-sourced income tax-no logo (expattaxthailand.com)

 

Posted
5 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

I stated do not work do so my taxable income is zero

A rather naive concept! I don’t know of any taxing authority that supports anything remotely similar 

20 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

interesting how your meeting wth the Accountant in August

I will be sharing little of my meeting, other than general principles if I am even allowed 

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Posted
48 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not intrusive. It is a standard allowance for all, there is nothing required for proof

 

NB the figures I give above are provisional. I am going to have a conversation with a tax accountant next month 

 

nothing I have posted is advice, it maybe totally wrong.

Many thanks.  I have the allowable deductions as posted by Mike Lister.  But I don't see any allowances for " "expenses".

I'm not saying your table is incorrect.

 

My deductible allowance including the 1st 150k before tax is deducted, come to 560k

So, I guess we will just have to wait and see, if and when the TRD actually publish and enforce the latest statement for expats.

  • Like 2
Posted

I was thinking about several ways one can avoid paying PIT in Thailand, regardless of the type of visa you have. I will certainly use some of the options below. If anyone can think of any other options, please share them. Thanks...

1. Stay less than 180 days in-country (non-tax resident), remit as much money as you want tax free for future year's spending when you are a tax resident.

2. Stay 180 days (tax resident), remit less than the TEDA threshold, so as not to owe any taxes, can use previously remitted monies if needed.

3. Stay 180 days (tax resident), remit only pre-2024 monies

4. Stay 180 days (tax resident), remit only tax-exempt monies as per DTA such as; your US Social Security, gov't pensions, etc.

5. Stay 180 days (tax resident), get a LTR visa if one can qualify

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Posted
53 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

Many thanks.  I have the allowable deductions as posted by Mike Lister.  But I don't see any allowances for " "expenses".

I'm not saying your table is incorrect.

 

My deductible allowance including the 1st 150k before tax is deducted, come to 560k

So, I guess we will just have to wait and see, if and when the TRD actually publish and enforce the latest statement for expats.

Raindancer  100% agree with you and yet again went around to my local revenue department and they have no clue but gave the same advice again about nothing.
A Thai friend who knows someone in the Revenue admits to hardly any knowledge of this issue but he manages to file his tax return in Jan every year!!

Raindancer  and yes the very helpful Mike Lister agree with our allowances and again we await but may include it on sonehow the allwance box but we have no idea what this new form will be like and if anything like the old one will be just as confusing.
The Title of these forms PND 90 Personal Income tax states 60k personal Allowances x 2
On Pnd  91 and yes the only ones can find 2006 on Google stated Personal Income Tax from Income from Employment only and many of us do not bit did the 120k and 220k amounts.
We must wait and see tc and thanks all.
My Thai wife  was asking.
LOL what are you doing"
Could not explain as we do not know ourselves but one has to laugh but have a good day and night.


 

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Posted
32 minutes ago, NJHOUSE said:

Waste of money. Your meeting will yield no new insights.

You have no knowledge of my circumstances or of amounts I remit or am able to remit into Thailand or where and how those funds originate, nor of my holdings of fixed immovable assets and other assets.

 

I am reasonably confident that if you were to know my finances you would be unable to provide the strategies and advice I want with any confidence that they are legal, comprehensive and personally tax efficient.

 

If you are so confident I know of at least 1 major financial company that would like to hire you expertise, though I rather doubt that they would agree with your self aggrandising opinion.

  • Like 2
Posted
6 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Raindancer  100% agree with you and yet again went around to my local revenue department and they have no clue but gave the same advice again about nothing.
A Thai friend who knows someone in the Revenue admits to hardly any knowledge of this issue but he manages to file his tax return in Jan every year!!

 

47 minutes ago, NJHOUSE said:

Waste of money. Your meeting will yield no new insights.

My thoughts as well  but who knows and some can not afford theie huge rates but Carl Turner and our own Mike Lister been amazing and thanks again indeed.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You have no knowledge of my circumstances or of amounts I remit or am able to remit into Thailand or where and how those funds originate, nor of my holdings of fixed immovable assets and other assets.

 

I am reasonably confident that if you were to know my finances you would be unable to provide the strategies and advice I want with any confidence that they are legal, comprehensive and personally tax efficient.

 

If you are so confident I know of at least 1 major financial company that would like to hire you expertise, though I rather doubt that they would agree with your self aggrandising opinion.

sometime
We would all appreciate it  and good luck but do not like your answer to another recent poster ok

  • Confused 1
Posted
15 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

All possible, but are they probable? 

 

I could address each of your 8 points, but how relevant are they? 

 

You have to remember, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY is there for the taking, in one way or another, and farang are soooooooo easy targets. 

 

Have you ever known Thai's to walk away from easy MONEY? 

However they could have come up with this money grab decades ago but never bothered...

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
13 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

It's not though, money and those who have plenty of it are highly mobile if needed.

 

They're not getting mine as I won't allow it, that's why I'm now sitting in my apartment in Phnom Penh considering buying somewhere down here.

Theoretically you would pay more tax in Cambodia then in TH however I think they do not enforce anything in Cambodia regarding taxes

  • Like 1
Posted

OK so one way to reduce amount possibly is file separate returns for you and your wife. Say we have a joint offshore account, remit half to yourself and she remitts the other half to herself. That way we would both get the first 150K at 0% + 65K and any other reductions.

Posted
18 minutes ago, stat said:

However they could have come up with this money grab decades ago but never bothered...

I certainly hope that they will still be 'not bothered'.

TRD wrote letters to 100K Thais reminding them of income taxes - they did not write to Expats.

But me thinks they are being pushed to get as much as they can from everyone - including Expats.

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Posted
23 minutes ago, stat said:

Theoretically you would pay more tax in Cambodia then in TH however I think they do not enforce anything in Cambodia regarding taxes

 

I'm not paying anything in Cambodia, they also have a 183 day test which I will not meet for residency requirements.

 

Also due to the amounts involved it would definitely be a lot less in Cambodia but only for a year or two as most of the income will be at 35% in Thailand, specifically for this year and next year - this really did come at the wrong time for me financially, I was planning on using the 'next year' remittance method.
 

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