1 hour ago, MalcolmB said:

Well said Charlie. You have hit the nail on the head.

 

The most whining expats are without a doubt the ones that have not bothered to learn Thai. Always moaning. And endlessly complaining.

 

They are basically illiterate,deaf and mute. So of course they will be frustrated, especially with Thais who can not understand a word they are saying, they don’t have a clue what is going on around them. 

And no doubt the Thais must be left shaking their heads at these buffaloes.

 

Often they keep repeated the English word over and over again while pulling faces and using hand signals which just causes even more confusion. And exposing themselves to be the fools that they are.

 

And they completely socially isolated at social events such as weddings etc.

Unable to perform basic tasks without relying on their Thai wife who they expect to be a mind reader. Always with an angry face on in the Land of Smiles.

 

And ironically despite living here for years or even decades and not being able to string a simple sentence together, being unable to ask for something basic in a polite way they convince themselves that the Thai people are stupid and rude.

 

Every Thai I met who was living in England could speak English.

 

i would add that many feel entitled because they are spending their money in Thailand, mostly on prostitutes, but they feel that all Thais should lay out the red carpet for them.

 

It also leads to a paranoia, they think the Thais are talking about them, plotting against them, when the Thais are not even thinking about them.

 

Add that they can not read road safety signs, or other warnings and they become a danger on the roads.

 

They should be banned.

Not wanting to learn Thai isn't a negative if your partner speaks your language, as she should, if you want to have a close relationship. Anyone can use a phone translator to ask questions if they are alone here. It also doesn't make you illiterate, deaf nor mute. Some people just don't care to learn another language. Thai isn't easy to learn unless you put the time into it.

 

If you aren't with a wife or partner here that speaks your language, then it would be a good idea to at least learn some basics, although again, you can get along just fine if you use your phone. Many Thais can't speak anything besides Thai, and they aren't looking at us as illiterate, as they also can't speak our languages, which makes us even.

 

I've been here over 6 years and have gotten along okay using my phone for words I don't know. My ex spoke only a little English and that was part of the problem. My girlfriend now speaks very good English, which makes things a lot better as far as communication, which is one of the most important things in any relationship.

 

From reading many of your posts, you seem to assume a lot of what goes on in other's lives. This isn't something anyone can do, as you don't live with anyone 24/7 besides your own partner, if that. Most people who live here probably haven't any paranoia. We know many of those, especially the older locals, don't like us around for one reason or another, this coming from old school prejudiced thinking. This doesn't mean all of them, as I see for myself how accepted I am around my village. I'm courteous to everyone here, and couldn't care less what anyone thinks, as I'm the one fitting in with the way I act.

 

I don't think anyone but a narcissist thinks Thais should lay out the red carpet for us. While living here, we are again, just trying to fit in. Some cause trouble, as they probably do in their own countries. Road signs here are in Thai and English, and those that aren't are easy to understand, as the sign itself can be international in appearance. The real danger on Thai roads are the locals and their inability to drive safely, and the lack of enforcement of existing rules. Most foreigners already know how to drive well coming from other countries where laws are enforced, and testes to get licenses are harder. Some speed no matter where they live, and drive drunk, and this isn't a good thing anywhere. Try not to assume, because the few you know about aren't but a fraction of what's here. As far as the OP's question, the only reason I'm here is because I'm waiting for the right time to re-locate back in the US with my daughter here.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I was in Thailand for the Islands, beaches, seasonal climates, and affordable prices while I was climbing, kayaking, diving, and meeting people back when the Nok was strong compared to Thai baht. It used to be a nice destination where I could take a time out from work and travel. I think most know the paradise it used to be long gone by now, but I found a girl at my supposedly last trip to Thailand. 

 

I tried to live here now for 8 years, but the last april heat together with the smoke and the possibility of being taxed for my living cost killed my spirit staying here completely, and I moved back.

 

I was quite positive until one day, I just had enough, and at that point the walls just fell in from every side. 

 

The beaches is not what they used to be, to much tourists on those places that used to be very chill, welcoming and nice with great local food without sugar often served in banana leaves just as an example of how things have changed. Internet have found its way all over thailand, there is no escapes anymore. Well so many things I could say, but I was here for the nice climate, quiet beaches clean food, clean air, and friendly people, those times is gone. At least my own illusion of how it used to be, is gone. 

 

Interesting you say "illusion." Illusion is fine - delusion is something else altogether and far too many expats throughout the world live in a state of delusion. 

 

Experienced expats know that - from the beaches of Spain to the oil-rich compounds of Saudi Arabia, there's always someone living in a fantasy world/ A world which will inevitably crash and burn. 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

On retired status we are NOT immigrants so why play act that we are?

Sadly, some so-called expats with a non-immigrant visa irrespective of the extension believe they're entitled to more than they actually are, failing to realize they're essentially on a 12-month tourist extension. Adding to this misguided sense of entitlement, they even demand voting rights in Thailand simply because their extensions have been approved for a few consecutive years. It never seems to occur to them to do their homework before entering into relationships or building homes, without considering their own legal status in this wonderful country. Assuming intellectual superiority simply because they come from the West with great football teams is both futile and misguided.

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Not wanting to learn Thai isn't a negative if your partner speaks your language, as she should, if you want to have a close relationship. Anyone can use a phone translator to ask questions if they are alone here. It also doesn't make you illiterate, deaf nor mute. Some people just don't care to learn another language. Thai isn't easy to learn unless you put the time into it.

 

If you aren't with a wife or partner here that speaks your language, then it would be a good idea to at least learn some basics, although again, you can get along just fine if you use your phone. Many Thais can't speak anything besides Thai, and they aren't looking at us as illiterate, as they also can't speak our languages, which makes us even.

 

I've been here over 6 years and have gotten along okay using my phone for words I don't know. My ex spoke only a little English and that was part of the problem. My girlfriend now speaks very good English, which makes things a lot better as far as communication, which is one of the most important things in any relationship.

 

From reading many of your posts, you seem to assume a lot of what goes on in other's lives. This isn't something anyone can do, as you don't live with anyone 24/7 besides your own partner, if that. Most people who live here probably haven't any paranoia. We know many of those, especially the older locals, don't like us around for one reason or another, this coming from old school prejudiced thinking. This doesn't mean all of them, as I see for myself how accepted I am around my village. I'm courteous to everyone here, and couldn't care less what anyone thinks, as I'm the one fitting in with the way I act.

 

I don't think anyone but a narcissist thinks Thais should lay out the red carpet for us. While living here, we are again, just trying to fit in. Some cause trouble, as they probably do in their own countries. Road signs here are in Thai and English, and those that aren't are easy to understand, as the sign itself can be international in appearance. The real danger on Thai roads are the locals and their inability to drive safely, and the lack of enforcement of existing rules. Most foreigners already know how to drive well coming from other countries where laws are enforced, and testes to get licenses are harder. Some speed no matter where they live, and drive drunk, and this isn't a good thing anywhere. Try not to assume, because the few you know about aren't but a fraction of what's here. As far as the OP's question, the only reason I'm here is because I'm waiting for the right time to re-locate back in the US with my daughter here.

 

No one is asking you to be fluent. Fluency in Thai is near on impossible for foreigners. 

 

The ability to count and ask where the toilet is would be a great start. 

4 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

Interesting you say "illusion." Illusion is fine - delusion is something else altogether and far too many expats throughout the world live in a state of delusion. 

 

Experienced expats know that - from the beaches of Spain to the oil-rich compounds of Saudi Arabia, there's always someone living in a fantasy world/ A world which will inevitably crash and burn. 

Illusions is part of a good quality life giving it reasons to achieve it! Whithout good reasons why bother putting energy in to doing something you really do not want? 

 

 

Just now, theblether said:

 

No one is asking you to be fluent. Fluency in Thai is near on impossible for foreigners. 

 

The ability to count and ask where the toilet is would be a great start. 

That I can do, plus many others, like ordering food. Like I said, it hasn't been bad as far as communication, as I always have my phone if needed.

13 minutes ago, johng said:

Ha ha,I kind of agree and disagree at the same time...yes many need hand holding..but don't really see a problem with that, they are trying to intergrate in an alien environment via "proxy wife"..the language barrier can be huge..dealing with Thai bureaucracy is a challenge for everyone,should they try harder to navigate the intricacies themselves  ? probably.

Do I blame them for not wanting to and delegating to someone else...mostly no.

 

There's a difference between looking for guidance and needing a carer for your basic human needs. 

Just now, Hummin said:

Illusions is part of a good quality life giving it reasons to achieve it! Whithout good reasons why bother putting energy in to doing something you really do not want? 

 

 

Some do not even reckonizing it is just pure illusions who drives them to do things. 

 

Everyone visiting Thailand learn how the real Thailand is quite quick, but they somehow manage to put those negativs in the back, and creates their own illusions of the reality how they want it to be. Strong exchange valuta is a good reasons, and hassle free life you can pay for. 

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Not wanting to learn Thai isn't a negative if your partner speaks your language, as she should, if you want to have a close relationship. Anyone can use a phone translator to ask questions if they are alone here

More drivel from Fred.

 

So you go to a party and converse using the phone translator. 
 

That would get boring after about 5 minutes and you expect everyone in a big group to talk into the phone for you? 

10 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

My ex spoke only a little English and that was part of the problem.

Part of your problem.

i am sure she was coping fine.

Just now, fredwiggy said:

That I can do, plus many others, like ordering food. Like I said, it hasn't been bad as far as communication, as I always have my phone if needed.

 

And that's enough. My Thai is not up to standard but I can hold my own. 

 

I only ask people who live in the country can function enough to say things like "where is the toilet" or "not spicy please." In fact, maybe roll out fancy phrases such as "how much?" and know what is said in reply. 

 

That would be a great start. 

Just now, MalcolmB said:

More drivel from Fred.

 

So you go to a party and converse using the phone translator. 
 

That would get boring after about 5 minutes and you expect everyone in a big group to talk into the phone for you? 

When I go to a party, I'm with my girlfriend, who translates for us when they ask me questions. Life here is as boring as it gets anyway.

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I've been here over 6 years and have gotten along okay using my phone for words I don't know.

You have a child here.

But can not converse with her teachers.

Great parenting Fred

Just now, MalcolmB said:

Part of your problem.

i am sure she was coping fine.

A narcissist that lies, abuses, kidnaps your daughter 4 times so you have to divorce here to bring her back home, doesn't get along wit her own family, and goes from one man to another isn't coping fine. The only problem I had was  actually trusting her, and having a child with someone who doesn't care about children besides the cash she gets from them. Try not to assume, as you did again.

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it was not mentioned in the article above, even if we try to be just like Thais and mix with Thais we will most likely still always be seen as farang outsiders.

 

As far as I am concerned this is not bad, because as outsiders we don't have to play by all the Thai rules and norms.

But I think everybody who comes here and tries to integrate should be aware of this fact.

I totally agree with this.  That is one of the primary reasons I decided to retire in Thailand after working and living in  many countries including EU, Africa, Asia, Central America - that plus I do not like cold weather, I love the PI too but they have strong earthquakes, big typhoons, volcanic  eruptions, but no cold weather either.  The food in Thailand is great! and varied not so great in the PI to my liking.  People  are very receptive to  foreigners (at least they have been to me) and usually let us live like we want - without hassles and without bothering them.  I have been  retired here for over 20 years and just extended my visa for 10 more years- hoping to last that long.  No place is perfect by any means but Thailand  sure checks most of the boxes.

52 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

No I avoid them.

i know them so well from reading this forum.

 

I have had enough of them and so does Charlie by the sounds of it.

Clever man than Charlie.

How do you know they don't speak Thai when this is an English language forum?

 

2 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Often they keep repeated the English word over and over again while pulling faces and using hand signals

How do you know this from their posts on AN?

 

2 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

And they completely socially isolated at social events such as weddings etc.

Again, how do you know this from their posts?

 

2 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Add that they can not read road safety signs, or other warnings and they become a danger on the roads.

Doesn't their wife drive them?

15 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

You have a child here.

But can not converse with her teachers.

Great parenting Fred

I talk to 2 of her teachers because they speak English. My daughter isn't learning much in a Thai school anyway, as they are far from advanced like those in the US. This is one reason I will bring her to the US before she's 10, so she has a chance of a decent future she wouldn't have here. That's great parenting, staying here until we can both leave, instead of me leaving her here and going back myself.Assuming yet again.

Just now, theblether said:

 

And that's enough. My Thai is not up to standard but I can hold my own. 

 

I only ask people who live in the country can function enough to say things like "where is the toilet" or "not spicy please." In fact, maybe roll out fancy phrases such as "how much?" and know what is said in reply. 

 

That would be a great start. 

I learned all the basics the first year I was here, as I knew things would be easier for myself and others I'm talking to.

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Some do not even reckonizing it is just pure illusions who drives them to do things. 

 

Everyone visiting Thailand learn how the real Thailand is quite quick, but they somehow manage to put those negativs in the back, and creates their own illusions of the reality how they want it to be. Strong exchange valuta is a good reasons, and hassle free life you can pay for. 

 

I agree with that. We all have our own Thailand and people like me have several versions as we float between tourist Thailand, expat Thailand, urban Thai and, rural Thai. 

 

I don't have a problem with the sex tourists who are world experts on one square mile of Pattaya until they start talking about life in a Thai village. 

 

We all have our own version of Thailand. If you know about Pattaya, great - about life in a Thai village, excellent - create your own bubble but make sure the bubble isn't marked "delusion - made in your own head." 

What do you want from me Charlie??!!! I sing the praises of Thailand all day long! The best massages, the best culinary options by far from all over the world (yes, there are better Chinese restaurants in Chicago and Shanghai but you won't get the variety and options), best housing pound for pound, lovely friendly people, festivals non-stop, fast internet, no typhoons like in Phil, tourist lifestyle all year, I mean I say this non stop....What more do you want Charlie???

40 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

I agree with that. We all have our own Thailand and people like me have several versions as we float between tourist Thailand, expat Thailand, urban Thai and, rural Thai. 

 

I don't have a problem with the sex tourists who are world experts on one square mile of Pattaya until they start talking about life in a Thai village. 

 

We all have our own version of Thailand. If you know about Pattaya, great - about life in a Thai village, excellent - create your own bubble but make sure the bubble isn't marked "delusion - made in your own head." 

I have travelled and lived or stayed more than 3 months most places in Thailand, included Islands, 4 of the major tourist places in Thailand and  outback in Isaan for 4 years. So I guess I have a valid experience to share. 

 

But some Pattaya experts do not aknownledge my experience at all 😁

31 minutes ago, theblether said:

We all have our own version of Thailand. If you know about Pattaya, great - about life in a Thai village, excellent - create your own bubble but make sure the bubble isn't marked "delusion - made in your own head." 

Nice summary!

Yes, I met foreigners who just obsessed with their own version of Thailand, vigorously rejecting other views and opinion. While living in Bangkok I missed so many amazing parts of Thailand! And it is not "Pattaya-boom-boom-Buriram" 

Now I'll try to catch up.

Integrating into Thai society?

Frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

1 hour ago, theblether said:

The worst I ever met was a man who boasted about visiting Thailand for the first time in 1969, and who had been married to a Thai while living in Thailand for 16 years. 

 

This guy did not know the Thai word for toilet. 

 

My mutual friend told me that his Thai family treat him as if he was intellectually disabled. Truthfully, he deserves it. 

 

But at least he was not on social benefits, taking up social housing, getting free health care and having translators provided at taxpayers expense as is the case in the west for many immigrants. He just was not interested in learning their crude language with it's, for many, incomprehensible tonal system. The family have probably all had many years of Englsih lessons at school but likely no better at English than he is at Thai, if he's happy with the situation so what?

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I have travelled and lived or stayed more than 3 months most places in Thailand, included Islands, 4 of the major tourist places in Thailand and  outback in Isaan for 4 years. So I guess I have a valid experience to share. 

 

But some Pattaya experts do kot aknownledge my experience at all 😁

 

Ok, share, what's your favourite island?

 

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Ok, share, what's your favourite island?

 

It depends on season and my purpose of visit. 

 

And my favorite Island, I haven't shared on this forum yet, and never will. 

 

If I'm going to stay one year on one Island, I would choose Koh Phangan. Nearby just a short boat ride is Koh Tao and Koh Samui where there is an Airport. The Island is big enough to make some nice trips on motorbikes and also challenging dirt roads, good restaurants, quiet beaches, good affordable hotels and appartments. Nice beaches year around, just go from one end to another depending on season. 

 

Fresh seafood, OK diving, great gyms, 👍 

 

Edit note: They also have an Irish bar who knows how to tap a Guinness 😁

All the reasons that many of us are here are all the same reasons that we should leave. 

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It depends on season and my purpose of visit. 

 

And my favorite Island, I haven't shared on this forum yet, and never will. 

 

If I'm going to stay one year on one Island, I would choose Koh Phangan. Nearby just a short boat ride is Koh Tao and Koh Samui where there is an Airport. The Island is big enough to make some nice trips on motorbikes and also challenging dirt roads, good restaurants, quiet beaches, good affordable hotels and appartments. Nice beaches year around, just go from one end to another depending on season. 

 

Fresh seafood, OK diving, great gyms, 👍 

 

Edit note: They also have an Irish bar who knows how to tap a Guinness 😁

 

So your favourite island is not Koh Phangan but you would choose it if you stayed one year. So your favourite island is very small and gets boring after 2 weeks?

10 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

So your favourite island is not Koh Phangan but you would choose it if you stayed one year. So your favourite island is very small and gets boring after 2 weeks?

I wouldnt say boring, but it is quite small, but have a great diversity of people from all over the world who have found their paradise there, but the nearby islands and mainland is not that interesting, and no hospital except from a local clinic. Since Im still working and travelling to and from work, it makes it not so perfect. From Koh Phangan I only need three days notice, and can be almost everywhere where they need me on short notice. 

 

 

 

 

Just now, Hummin said:

I wouldnt say boring, but it is quite small, but have a great diversity of people from all over the world who have found their paradise there, but the nearby islands and mainland is not that interesting, and no hospital except from a local clinic. Since Im still working and travelling to and from work, it makes it not so perfect. From Koh Phangan I only need three days notice, and can be almost everywhere where they need me on short notice. 

 

 

 

 

 

So it's not Ko Chang then?