13 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Where did you get that information from as a matter of interest ?

The revenue department 

19 hours ago, Carver2 said:

HI   Talked to Lamphun Revenue Dept. and also Chiang Mai Revenue Dept. When I asked about taxation of foreign income I was told that retirees don't pay tax only people that work in Thailand or have income from Thailand  have to pay income tax . Has anyone else received a similar response from the revenue dept. ?

The lady I saw at Jomtien Tax Office thought I was a madman for wanting to pay Thai tax when I was a retired British Citizen, not working here and already paying tax in the UK.  She refused point blank to issue me a TIN. I only went  there to find out the true situation, but ended up feeling quite silly for doing so.

44 minutes ago, kimothai said:

I thought this about retirees living in Thailand (on retirement visa).

Thailand never issued a retirement visa!

19 hours ago, Carver2 said:

HI   Talked to Lamphun Revenue Dept. and also Chiang Mai Revenue Dept. When I asked about taxation of foreign income I was told that retirees don't pay tax only people that work in Thailand or have income from Thailand  have to pay income tax . Has anyone else received a similar response from the revenue dept. ?

please stop perusing this. If you ignore it nothing happens but if you keep trying you may actually figure out how to get yourself taxed. Do nothing until approached by immigration on the matter and keep quiet.

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But audits could come later,

 

Audits like what? Like when Farang marries a Thai lady and police comes to village to check up on you? 

 

Even that seems to have stopped because they can't pay for gas.

2 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Audits like what? Like when Farang marries a Thai lady and police comes to village to check up on you? 

 

Even that seems to have stopped because they can't pay for gas.

Audits like calling you into their office to show your records. Duh. 

4 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

please stop perusing this. If you ignore it nothing happens but if you keep trying you may actually figure out how to get yourself taxed. Do nothing until approached by immigration on the matter and keep quiet.

I have no idea YET how this is going to be enforced.
Likely it will be an office by office situation which could change at any time because of national orders.

But the tax office isn't going to contact anyone to ask them to file.

They may contact people to come in for an AUDIT.

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Now we are getting somewhere.

 

The UK, a CRS Country requires all foreigners to complete Self Assessment 100 ( SA100 )

 

File in your personal details and check 1 box, No 5, Foreign income.

 

Fill in Self Assessment 106 ( SA106 ) which is 6 pages long and covers every type of income, tax already paid on that income and whether that income is subject to a DTA.

 

I still think this page has not been updated yet

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

simply because they haven't finalised the paperwork yet.

Is that the actual Thai tax filing page or something preliminary?

18 minutes ago, mogandave said:

The revenue department 

Well, have been around there several times before and 2 tax experts and one here and one in the UK and noth countries know/

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Is that the actual Thai tax filing page or something preliminary?

 

It is the page where the 2017 - 2023 English language  tax filing forms are located.

 

2024 forms has not been uploaded to it yet.

18 minutes ago, jesimps said:

The lady I saw at Jomtien Tax Office thought I was a madman for wanting to pay Thai tax when I was a retired British Citizen, not working here and already paying tax in the UK.  She refused point blank to issue me a TIN. I only went  there to find out the true situation, but ended up feeling quite silly for doing so.

In certain other situations and even your own family sometimes and no doing it on purpose but do embarrass you and taken personally,

30 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

 

Not true at all.  There are other categories of income that are not taxed in Thailand.  For example, if you own a business in the US, and it has no physical presence in Thailand, income from that business is only taxable in the US.  Read the whole US Thailand tax treaty.  There is a lot in it.

How many retirees have a business in the US

2 minutes ago, flexomike said:

How many retirees have a business in the US

532

43 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Thailand never issued a retirement visa!

Yes, we and even the Thais call it just that but let's be pandemic and is known as a permission to stay by means of retirement and means the same thing, but could at a stretch  be a tourist stamp for a year!!!

15 minutes ago, flexomike said:

How many retirees have a business in the US

At least one.  Me

31 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Yes, we and even the Thais call it just that

Which is evidently wrong.

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

UK State Pension: Generally, the UK State Pension is not considered a government pension and is usually covered under the Pensions Article of the DTA. This means it is typically only taxable in the country of the recipient's residence, which would be Thailand if you are a tax resident there2.

 

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

In terms of taxation, if your UK State Pension is paid directly into your Thai bank account, it is generally considered non-assessable income in Thailand and does not need to be declared on your Thai income tax form.

Confused

First you say UK State Pension is taxable in Thailand if you are a tax resident.

Then you say UK State Pension is non-assessable and doesn't need to be declared.

Which is it as it can't be both.

Before I retired to Thailand in 1993 I was told by both a senior employee of the TRD, and by highly reputable Thai lawyers, that:-

 

1. Pensions, from whatever source,

     were not taxable in Thailand.

2. That only the income of those

     people working and earning in

     Thailand was taxable.

 

That was over 30 years ago. Things have clearly changed since then, but to what extent is still unclear, with conflicting advice being given by different sources.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Audits like calling you into their office to show your records. Duh. 

And if you have none? 

 

I think it's great that you'll finally have a chance to pay higher taxes, 

Thanks to the OP for putting another piece of the Thai tax puzzle in place.  

 

As this thread is going the way of all the other tax threads   ... Friends & I, are not filing. No taxes owed by Thai tax rules on the book. Records will be kept, if ever the Thai government gets their wind up about it. Much ado about nothing.

 

 

 

. 

Dta agreenent Thailand/ uk Yes some have a uk State Pension and some of us have it transfered by the DWP each month for years in to our Thai bank accounts while others have it sent to their UK bank Yes this is then taxable if transmitted to Thailand but those who have it direct to Thailand the funds are not accessible correct

Yes, you are correct. Under the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the UK, the UK State Pension is generally only taxable in the country of the recipient's residence. For those who have their UK State Pension transferred directly to their Thai bank accounts, the funds are considered non-assessable income in Thailand and do not need to be declared on your Thai income tax form2.

However, if the pension is first sent to a UK bank account and then remitted to Thailand, it becomes taxable in Thailand under the remittance basis of taxation. This means that any foreign income brought into Thailand during the year it is earned is subject to Thai taxes.

If you have any more

54 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

 

Confused

First you say UK State Pension is taxable in Thailand if you are a tax resident.

Then you say UK State Pension is non-assessable and doesn't need to be declared.

Which is it as it can't be both.

Yes the difference is if straight to Thailand or not as per the wording

1 minute ago, jwest10 said:

Yes the difference is if straight to Thailand or not as per the wording

it isa question and answer with  the UK and Thai;and

46 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And if you have none? 

 

I think it's great that you'll finally have a chance to pay higher taxes, 

I'm not a Thai tax auditer but they CAN see the incoming remittances.

So if they see an annual remittance of a million baht and they ask you to show the source of that money and you can't do that, it seems to me they would have the legal right to say the entire million was taxable even if none of it was.

Keep the flippin' records!

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

The lady I saw at Jomtien Tax Office thought I was a madman for wanting to pay Thai tax when I was a retired British Citizen, not working here and already paying tax in the UK.  She refused point blank to issue me a TIN. I only went  there to find out the true situation, but ended up feeling quite silly for doing so.

Anecdotal. 

That doesn't mean that a year or two from now that that office won't start auditing people and encouraging people that DO have accessable income to file. 

Consider that she might not even know yet that not all foreign retirement income types are excluded.

Consider the extra work dealing with complicated foreign stuff for nationals of countless nations when it is probably true that a strong majority will end up owing no tax (but some would). 

Human nature to shoo you away.

But nobody can predict whether and when their attitude might change.

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

The lady I saw at Jomtien Tax Office thought I was a madman for wanting to pay Thai tax when I was a retired British Citizen, not working here and already paying tax in the UK.  She refused point blank to issue me a TIN. I only went  there to find out the true situation, but ended up feeling quite silly for doing so.

 

I've just come back from my local District Tax Office, the 3rd. time I've been there in my 15 years in Thailand.

 

On the previous 2 occasions I was told 'No income earnt in Thailand = No income tax to pay'. 

 

This time I was expecting something different and told them I'd stayed in Thailand >180 days, had sent foreign-source already-taxed income to Thailand and had received a miniscule sum in interest on my savings account but No, exactly the same answer. They weren't interested in any details. I was refused a TIN because I have no earnings in Thailand. I was told, however, that things might change in the future - maybe the TO people are waiting for proper instructions from their senior people.

 

Everything in these tax threads might be telling us that conclusion is wrong but the Manager of this TO was convinced his interpretation was correct for the time being - and why wouldn't he be? - and I've now decided that the likes of me and all the AN membership won't change that interpretation so those of us who've been denied a TIN will just have to live with it and hope the tax investigators understand that we asked for and were refused TINs. Not a lot we can do about that.

5 minutes ago, MartinL said:

 

I've just come back from my local District Tax Office, the 3rd. time I've been there in my 15 years in Thailand.

 

On the previous 2 occasions I was told 'No income earnt in Thailand = No income tax to pay'. 

 

This time I was expecting something different and told them I'd stayed in Thailand >180 days, had sent foreign-source already-taxed income to Thailand and had received a miniscule sum in interest on my savings account but No, exactly the same answer. They weren't interested in any details. I was refused a TIN because I have no earnings in Thailand. I was told, however, that things might change in the future - maybe the TO people are waiting for proper instructions from their senior people.

 

Everything in these tax threads might be telling us that conclusion is wrong but the Manager of this TO was convinced his interpretation was correct for the time being - and why wouldn't he be? - and I've now decided that the likes of me and all the AN membership won't change that interpretation so those of us who've been told been denied a TIN will just have to live with it and hope the tax investigators understand that we asked for and were refused TINs. Not a lot we can do about that.

 

Thank you…..no way am I driving three hours to ask for a TIN…..they can all go to **** in a handcart.

6 minutes ago, MartinL said:

 

I've just come back from my local District Tax Office, the 3rd. time I've been there in my 15 years in Thailand.

 

On the previous 2 occasions I was told 'No income earnt in Thailand = No income tax to pay'. 

 

This time I was expecting something different and told them I'd stayed in Thailand >180 days, had sent foreign-source already-taxed income to Thailand and had received a miniscule sum in interest on my savings account but No, exactly the same answer. They weren't interested in any details. I was refused a TIN because I have no earnings in Thailand. I was told, however, that things might change in the future - maybe the TO people are waiting for proper instructions from their senior people.

 

Everything in these tax threads might be telling us that conclusion is wrong but the Manager of this TO was convinced his interpretation was correct for the time being - and why wouldn't he be? - and I've now decided that the likes of me and all the AN membership won't change that interpretation so those of us who've been told been denied a TIN will just have to live with it and hope the tax investigators understand that we asked for and were refused TINs. Not a lot we can do about that.

Makes sense to me for now at least at offices saying that. However, the things might change in future thing is key. So still be defensive and keep those records!

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Makes sense to me for now at least at offices saying that. However, the things might change in future thing is key. So still be defensive and keep those records!

Of course!! That goes without saying.

Just now, MartinL said:

Of course!! That goes without saying.

Many people still seem to need the saying about starting to keep records because you never know.