From the (mocked on here) 23 Nobel Prize winning economists pre-election:

Among the most important determinants of economic success are the rule of law and economic and political certainty, and Trump threatens all of these.

Reuters headline today:

Majority of Americans believe presidents should obey the courts, Reuters/Ipsos poll finds

4 hours ago, frank83628 said:

So, you all bitch, cry and attack him for placing tariffs you claim will destroy the economy,  then you bitch, cry & attack him saying he is weak for supposedly reducing the tariffs you attacked him for putting on....total losers!

The reason everyone attacks the old fool is because everyone knows it was an absolutely stupid thing to do…..what part of experts saying they haven’t seen things looking this bad since 1932?…..how much wealth has been squandered behind this failed idea??how much has everyone’s 401Ks been affected?how’s about the pension plans…..thats not even touching on the hardship created on our fellow beings all over the planet.Bottom line the old FOOL was warned for YEARS that his tariffs were a stupid idea…..now we pay the price.Hes insulated by wealth and his cocoon of yes people/enablers.so yup we are calling him on it!elections have consequences it’s time to flush the toilet.

1 hour ago, Tug said:

The reason everyone attacks the old fool is because everyone knows it was an absolutely stupid thing to do…..what part of experts saying they haven’t seen things looking this bad since 1932?…..how much wealth has been squandered behind this failed idea??how much has everyone’s 401Ks been affected?how’s about the pension plans…..thats not even touching on the hardship created on our fellow beings all over the planet.Bottom line the old FOOL was warned for YEARS that his tariffs were a stupid idea…..now we pay the price.Hes insulated by wealth and his cocoon of yes people/enablers.so yup we are calling him on it!elections have consequences it’s time to flush the toilet.

Yeah right, typically over dramatic Bull as everything you guys say about trump always is.

You seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that persions, stocks are long term investments, markets react, rises and falls.

You all need to grow up.

 

It's funny listening to the same three people on here every day slurping Trump's testicles while he simultaneously hits them over the head with a hammer, at which point the word "winning" gets bandied about.

 

If Trump's winning, then there's something wrong with the scoreboard.

 

7 hours ago, Cameroni said:

So all you lot who predicted that China would not negotiate......looooooosers....

 

And Trump wins again.

 

So much winning.

Who said China wouldn't negotiate? Consistently you seem to labor under the mistaken belief that negotiation means surrender of some sort. Also, while China said  it would negotiate, it also said it wouldn't negotiate under pressure. Finally you don't seem to understand the difference between China said it would negotiate and China said it will negotiate.

Also, If negotiations take place, you might want to keep from chortling until the outcome is clear.  Bessent said he doesn't expect trading partners to come to a signed agreement with the 90 day deadline, now the dead 90 day deadline,  but just agreements on principles. These are called memorandums of understanding and while some people say that they aren't worth the paper they're printed on, I would disagree. They are definitely worth the paper they're printed on but not more than that.

18 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Yeah right, typically over dramatic Bull as everything you guys say about trump always is.

You seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that persions, stocks are long term investments, markets react, rises and falls.

You all need to grow up.

 

So the stock market crash in 1929 was no big deal, after all. Good to know.

6 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

That's a JOKE, right?

 

Any tariffs about 10 percent are a NO-STARTER.....

 

Totally MEANINGLESS.....

 

50-percent tariffs might as well be 500% tariffs.

What a JOKE.....

 

You ARE joking....RIGHT????

 

Do you think I will pay 65% tariff on STILTON CHEESE???

 

Think again, please.....

 

 

Do you eat Chinese Stilton cheese? Isn't that the kind with melamine in it? Mmmmm....melamine.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Who said China wouldn't negotiate?

 

You lot are the most shameless distorters of facts I have ever seen. You lot all claimed China would not negotiate, you want me to drag out the posts and repost them?

 

Just shameless.

Make the "Made in the USA" bigger on all products so yanks can support their own.

24 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You lot are the most shameless distorters of facts I have ever seen. You lot all claimed China would not negotiate, you want me to drag out the posts and repost them?

 

Just shameless.

BS. What I have repeatedly said is that China will outlast Trump. That they have a better hand to play. That people who think the buyer necessarily holds the upper hand, don't understand the situation. I'm going to post an article from the National Review that addresses this misconception.

Also, given the very low standard offered by Bessent of what would be a satisfactory outcome, I can see the Chinese signing a memorandum of understanding in exchange for the elimination of Trump's new tariffs. A fig leaf. You consistently confuse negotiations with surrender.

10 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

What a shock.

 

Lol.

Is your case so bad that you have to misleadingly truncate quotes?

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

So much whining.  There'll be so much whining,

 

We all know who is doing the whining "Oh Trump made the stock market go down"..."Oh Trump made the stock market go up, he flip flops" "Oh Russia won't negotiate"..."Oh...China won't negotiate"...

 

I hate Trump, I hate him so much, he's rich, I'm poor, he's president and I post on Asean, he's got a model wife, I'm stuck with a 59 year old that looks like a transgender...Why can't lefties win elections...

 

Oh no, world is ending...,.

 

Hahahahaha

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

We all know who is doing the whining "Oh Trump made the stock market go down"..."Oh Trump made the stock market go up, he flip flops" "Oh Russia won't negotiate"..."Oh...China won't negotiate"...

 

I hate Trump, I hate him so much, he's rich, I'm poor, he's president and I post on Asean, he's got a model wife, I'm stuck with a 59 year old that looks like transgender...Why can't lefties win elections...

 

Oh no, world is ending...,.

 

Hahahahaha

When  you've got nothing, make it personal. You've got nothing.

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

BS. What I have repeatedly said is that China will outlast Trump. That they have a better hand to play. That people who think the buyer necessarily holds the upper hand, don't understand the situation. I'm going to post an article from the National Review that addresses this misconception.

Also, given the very low standard offered by Bessent of what would be a satisfactory outcome, I can see the Chinese signing a memorandum of understanding in exchange for the elimination of Trump's new tariffs. A fig leaf. You consistently confuse negotiations with surrender.

 

So you are saying that there were no posters who claimed "China will not negotiate", the Chinese were too strong and did not need the US market, those 400 billion?

 

This never happened did it?

 

Do you want me post the previous posts?

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

So you are saying that there were no posters who claimed "China will not negotiate", the Chinese were too strong and did not need the US market, those 400 billion?

 

This never happened did it?

 

Do you want me post the previous posts?

Well, maybe they did. But maybe, like you, they mistakenly consider negotiations to be a form of surrender. The Chinese have said they're willing to negotiate. But not under threat. Surrender or victory can only be judged by the ultimate outcome of negotiations. Not the fact of negotiations themselves.  It looks to me like the Trump administration is already willing to settle for a fig leaf with other countries. I don't hear anymore threats about whoever comes first gets the best deal.

Just now, placeholder said:

Well, maybe they did. But maybe, like you, they mistakenly consider negotiations to be a form of surrender. The Chinese have said they're willing to negotiate. But not under threat. Surrender or victory can only be judged by the ultimate outcome of negotiations. Not the fact of negotiations themselves.  It looks to me like the Trump administration is already willing to settle for a fig leaf with other countries. I don't hear anymore threats about whoever comes first gets the best deal.

It's just a thought but i could see China be willing to have its auto companies build them in the United States like other foreign based companies. But that might be called a win-win. A concept that doesn't seem to exist in the zero-sum thinking of Trump and his fans.

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, maybe they did. But maybe, like you, they mistakenly consider negotiations to be a form of surrender. The Chinese have said they're willing to negotiate. But not under threat. Surrender or victory can only be judged by the ultimate outcome of negotiations. Not the fact of negotiations themselves.  It looks to me like the Trump administration is already willing to settle for a fig leaf with other countries. I don't hear anymore threats about whoever comes first gets the best deal.

 

Indeed they did say that, you did not, you and I agreed China will negotiate, but so many here claimed they would not. 

 

Now negotiations are of course not "surrender" but they do indicate that the USA has something the Chinese want. Otherwise China would not come to the table after all the humiliation. So what does China want? Obviously the 400 billion USD market share in the US.

 

It does worry me that the USA will be far too lenient in negotiations especially with the Chinese, but let's see.

 

Obviously the Chinese will push to build factories in the US to avoid future tariffs.  Personally I think neither Trump nor Xi want a prolonged trade war.

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

Trump administration considers slashing tariffs on Chinese imports to de-escalate trade tensions.

Tariffs could come down to between roughly 50% and 65%; a tiered approach considered: 35% levies for items the U.S. deems not a national-security threat and at least 100% levies for strategic items.

China open to trade talks but warns against negotiating under continued threats from the U.S.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/white-house-considers-slashing-china-tariffs-to-de-escalate-trade-war-6f875d69

 

Is Trump panicking much?

He was born to lose from start

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

You lot are the most shameless distorters of facts I have ever seen. You lot all claimed China would not negotiate, you want me to drag out the posts and repost them?

 

Just shameless.

They flip flop back n forth, post misleading headlines and opinions as facts, anything to suit their Trump bad narrative.

They're like a broken record 

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Indeed they did say that, you did not, you and I agreed China will negotiate, but so many here claimed they would not. 

 

Now negotiations are of course not "surrender" but they do indicate that the USA has something the Chinese want. Otherwise China would not come to the table after all the humiliation. So what does China want? Obviously the 400 billion USD market share in the US.

 

It does worry me that the USA will be far too lenient in negotiations especially with the Chinese, but let's see.

 

Obviously the Chinese will push to build factories in the US to avoid future tariffs.  Personally I think neither Trump nor Xi want a prolonged trade war.

Again, the blinkered misunderstand of trade deficits. You persist in believing that the buyer holds the advantage over the seller. Yes, the US has something China wants. But China has lots of things the US wants. In fact, badly needs.

 

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

So far, it looks like Trump is negotiating with himself.

The entire world sees what it is: a mega MAGA <deleted> show. And is laughing/crying at what the USA have become.

12 hours ago, still kicking said:

No, he keeps on winning 

He’s caved …

7 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

They flip flop back n forth, post misleading headlines and opinions as facts, anything to suit their Trump bad narrative.

They're like a broken record 

I'll give Trump credit for not sounding like a broken record lately. Now he sounds more like a broken bully.

43 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

We all know who is doing the whining "Oh Trump made the stock market go down"..."Oh Trump made the stock market go up, he flip flops" "Oh Russia won't negotiate"..."Oh...China won't negotiate"...

 

I hate Trump, I hate him so much, he's rich, I'm poor, he's president and I post on Asean, he's got a model wife, I'm stuck with a 59 year old that looks like a transgender...Why can't lefties win elections...

 

Oh no, world is ending...,.

 

Hahahahaha

55555

22 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

The entire world sees what it is: a mega MAGA <deleted> show. And is laughing/crying at what the USA have become.

Most nations are far worse 

5 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Most nations are far worse 

Only in your imagination

Just now, gejohesch said:

Only in your imagination

Laos tinpot

Myanmar army

Thailand mess

Cambodia mess

Europe high unemployment

China fascists

North Korea fascists

South America crime and poverty

Africa ditto

51 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

We all know who is doing the whining "Oh Trump made the stock market go down"..."Oh Trump made the stock market go up, he flip flops" "Oh Russia won't negotiate"..."Oh...China won't negotiate"...

 

I hate Trump, I hate him so much, he's rich, I'm poor, he's president and I post on Asean, he's got a model wife, I'm stuck with a 59 year old that looks like a transgender...Why can't lefties win elections...

 

Oh no, world is ending...,.

 

Hahahahaha

I'm sorry that's how you feel about your life.

If this is your idea of winning ... flailing along .. making big calls ... then back tracking .. huge tariffs .. low tariffs.. always with a <deleted> eating grin that you guys think means he knows what he is doing ... then so be it 

7 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I'm sorry that's how you feel about your life.

If this is your idea of winning ... flailing along .. making big calls ... then back tracking .. huge tariffs .. low tariffs.. always with a <deleted> eating grin that you guys think means he knows what he is doing ... then so be it 

 

You don't seem to understand how negotiations work. Thankfully Donald Trump does. Of course he doesn't want 145% tariffs forever, he used that to motivate China to negotiate so the US can get a better deal from China. How is this hard to understand for some people?

 

I love a static unchanging world where I can buy the same Tonkatsu every week forever as much as the next guy, but in the real world you have to be dynamic and twist a few arms, things change.

 

Maybe you're just not a go-getter like Trump and like to eat vanilla ice cream every evening in exactly the same cup?

Trump’s statement that China tariffs will “come down substantially” but not to zero suggests a potential de-escalation, while Bessent’s comment on THE SAME DAY about a two- to three-year timeline for a deal indicates prolonged uncertainty. 

 

These messages conflict: one implies near-term relief, the other a long slog. Markets hate uncertainty, and this inconsistency—paired with Bessent’s clarification that tariffs won’t be cut unilaterally—sparked volatility, with the S&P 500 dropping 100 points from its daily high after his remarks. It’s not a clear sell signal, but it’s a red flag for risk-off sentiment until clearer policy emerges.

This along with Walmart and Target warning of empty shelves next month is not a good look.