Report Diners Stop Customer Trying to Skip VAT at Bangkok Ramen Restaurant

[jaywalker-2]

2 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

I am very sorry, but why is are the prices not Vat included if you have to pay them anyway??? In many countries I have been there is always the VAT included in the price shown, but here in Thailand it must be different, Customers don't need to know how businesses work, but they have a right to fair price included everything.... so no surprises for them.

Come to Florida where there is a State 6% sales tax + a local 1% county tax, plus an "expected" 15-20% tip. If the bill is $20 USD...just call it $30.

 

How do people afford a plane ticket if they are that cheap?

 

Saving 20 baht on every meal????

 

 

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Value Added Tax ........ the clue is in the name.

Yes, that's why when a dealer sells you something, or a restaurant cooks you a meal, etc, they are adding value to the basic cost of the original article or ingredients, on which HE will have paid VAT to his supplier, and can claim back against what he charges his customer. So the VAT HE pays to the Govt. is only on whatever 'value' he has added.

[josephbloggs]

22 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

While a street vendor may ask for a cash sum a shop/restaurant will add VAT... 

this should be advertised on the menu or somewhere prominent where food prices are displayed.

It was. Clearly marked on every page of the menu, as has been mentioned several times.

[mfd101]

My experience of visiting Usofa 20 years ago was that VAT was not included at the time of ordering, only at the time of paying. Coming as I then did from sweet & innocent Oz & NZ, this was a shock. But one lives & learns.

[quake]

Just get Paulie and Christopher to sort it out.

 

 

[ikke1959]

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, that's why when a dealer sells you something, or a restaurant cooks you a meal, etc, they are adding value to the basic cost of the original article or ingredients, on which HE will have paid VAT to his supplier, and can claim back against what he charges his customer. So the VAT HE pays to the Govt. is only on whatever 'value' he has added.

Indeed, but I think the problem here in Thailand is that they can't calculate how much VAT is included when they sell something for 300 THB.. You need a bit Maths for it and as the education is very low it is too difficult to find out. Easier is add the VAT later so easy to find it back. But the customers are being scammed.. Discount 10%, but with the  VAT of 7%  added, the discount is not more than 3 % for example.. That is legal scam...

 

Same for a bottle of wine in a restaurant... The wine is heavily taxed already but they add again a 7% VAT on it...and sometimes even service charge... And than wondering why people buy less

[black tabby12345]

Another Quality Tourist making a headline.

If the tourists stays here for less than 6_weeks, supposed to be able to claim Thai VAT  refund at their departure point(international airport).

That was what I was told a decade ago.

Unsure the current length of possible stay to be eligible for that purpose as visa waivers now can stay up to 60 days at a time.

[J Branche]

Wait till you import simple stuff like Tennis Strings and Quality Shoes from USA.

Hit with 41.1% Tax, VAT, Brokerage Fee.

 

Thailand has a Free Trade Agreement with China.  US should definitely do the Exact Same Tariffs to Thailand.

So China can dump stuff in Thailand for peanuts but your going to exploit other countries with high import rates

for what reasons?  

 

China can do ALOT more damage to the Thai Economy than many other countries.

[wensiensheng]

11 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

That is in fact true.. Many times you see prices here and you are being always surprised with addition of service fee and tax.. Why not publish just the price included??  I had even at a sushi shop that at the end of the bill there was 7% tax while nowhere was a sigh that tax was not included.. It seems cheap, but in fact it misleading the consumer

I’d say 90% of the transactions that I carry out in Thailand involve some kind of consumer misrepresentation of some kind or other.

 

There is no effective enforcement of consumer protections, if there even are any, other than raising the profile of scams on media like tik tok.

 

so buyer beware is the only response.

[ujayujay]

As in every civilized country, VAT is included in the final price listed in the menu; anything else is attempted fraud!

[dlclark97]

In some countries no tax is placed on food purchased for preparation at your home.  A tax IS applied at restaurants for food prepared by the restaurant staff.

[Thaindrew]

the worse practice is were establishments charge VAT and then when you go to pay you find that you are paying to a personal account 

[sikishrory]

12 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

That is in fact true.. Many times you see prices here and you are being always surprised with addition of service fee and tax.. Why not publish just the price included??  I had even at a sushi shop that at the end of the bill there was 7% tax while nowhere was a sigh that tax was not included.. It seems cheap, but in fact it misleading the consumer

The thing is though I am never "surprised" as the majority of places do it so I expect it. 

However if you're new to Thailand or a tourist I can totally understand feeling a bit cheated with what seems like sneaky pricing.

That being said I think service charge is bs.

Particularly when there is no "service" or the service is poor. I had a delivery once which had a delivery fee and a service charge and the vat added on which I questioned and they just said it is policy.

I'm also aware it means a lot to the staff and can be an incentive to perform or work at a place. My missus makes a salary of 12,000 at a hotel. Low season service charge around 12,000 but high season service charge adds 30,000 baht to her salary. Employees often try to work at places like this. Where places like small cafes struggle to get staff as they have to compete with these large hotels and their considerable service charges.

This doesn't change the fact it is basically a forced tip.

I also remember reading a few years back that technically you are not legally required to pay the service charge. I can't be bothered to find the story and lots of these local news stories seem to be 404 after a couple of years anyway.

So I agree it's all a load of rubbish but surprised I am not.

 

[ChrisKC]

Do we know that this restaurant is even VAT registered and if so, then they are obliged to give a copy of the bill (receipt) to the customer for the purposes of correct accounting for the business.

 

In USA, they still haven't got past the archaic Sales tax that is levied on most things. It should be included in the selling price. Like many things these days one can not buy things at the advertised price, without some kind of add-ons!

[klauskunkel]

just idly wondering in general:

what Value is Added that requires Taxation...?

[NorthernRyland]

20 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

just idly wondering in general:

what Value is Added that requires Taxation...?

 

The idea is that any time YOU add any value to anything you own THEM. 

 

It's like you're a free-range slave. You can pick the cotton anywhere you want but if you do pick any cotton we need our cut...and if anyone makes some tools for you then we get a cut of that too. 

 

Same story in America though. They always get their cut.

 

 

[JAS21]

10 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Rubbish. Every restaurant has to include 7% VAT. Only an idiot doesn't know that. It was 21 baht!!

This one was Ozawa Ramen at PTT Suksawat. Their menu clearly states on every single page that 7% VAT will be applied. If they hide it or don't mention it then fair enough, but it is printed there very clearly.

Also should be noted that they DO NOT charge 10% or any service charge. So they are better than most restaurants.

"arguing that VAT should not apply in the same manner as it does at a 7-Eleven store, where she claimed VAT is handled differently." The customer is an idiot and has no idea how business works.

I think that if there is no Tax ID on the bill you shouldn't be charged VAT. I await your comment .....

[TigerandDog]

3 hours ago, Nicco said:

 

Agreed, but at least it's legit for Thailand. In US everyone knows X% will be applied to the bin. It's a given

and that's just one of many reasons why the USA sucks.

[818Pilot]

Just another moron that's arguing over 21฿

Track her down and deport her on the basis of being an idiot!

[loong]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

VAT is supposed to be a tax on luxury items.

I'd dispute that anything sold in a Ramen restaurant could be considered a 'luxury'.

I must admit that I don't know for sure what Ramen noodles are. I always assumed that they are cheap budget meals (for students etc.),

Are they something like Mama noodles?
 

Rama noodles served in a petrol station does sound luxurious though. 😉especially if they can charge 300 Baht for them!

[loong]

15 minutes ago, 818Pilot said:

Just another moron that's arguing over 21฿

Track her down and deport her on the basis of being an idiot!

 

Should the customer be deported if they are a Thai citizen?

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

I am very sorry, but why is are the prices not Vat included if you have to pay them anyway??? In many countries I have been there is always the VAT included in the price shown, but here in Thailand it must be different, Customers don't need to know how businesses work, but they have a right to fair price included everything.... so no surprises for them.

Because business who pay expenses for their workers need a tax bill where it does mention VAT. They can deduct the VAT paid from the VAT they charge.

People do need to know the law, ignorance isn't an excuse for disobeying the law.

[Look Chang]

In most countries, restaurant and bar prices are NET, which means that VAT and service are included.

It is the customer's choice to offer an additional "tip" if they believe they should reward excellent service.

[What to do now]

I'm from America. We get taxed to death. Tax upon tax. So this wouldn't even faze me. 

[ikke1959]

34 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Because business who pay expenses for their workers need a tax bill where it does mention VAT. They can deduct the VAT paid from the VAT they charge.

People do need to know the law, ignorance isn't an excuse for disobeying the law.

I am wondering how they do it in my country and other countries in Europe.. All prices are Vat (in Dutch BTW) included and it works the same as here in Thailand.. The buyer pay VAT and when he sells he receive the price inclusive VAT from the customer and the differnce he has to pay to the Revenue department...Exactly the same, only in my country you find nowhere a shop that will add VAT extra on the price as it is included already... It needs some maths and here in Thailand I suppose they can't find out how to do administrate it

[FritsSikkink]

1 minute ago, ikke1959 said:

 All prices are Vat (in Dutch BTW) included 

No they are not, some prices are BTW included others aren't. Have a proper look at a receipt when you buy more expensive items.

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, 818Pilot said:

Just another moron that's arguing over 21฿

Track her down and deport her on the basis of being an idiot!

That is not the point... The point is in fact the prices should be included VAT and eventually service fees... it is not about the money, but how can you expect that customers will accept everything. For me it is simple.. I look at the menu and if i see + and++ I count 20% more to the bill I expect and if it doesn't match with i have in mind I find another restaurant... Or just leave it and eat at simple shop, as I don't want to be scammed

[ikke1959]

7 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

No they are not, some prices are BTW included others aren't. Have a proper look at a receipt when you buy more expensive items.

I am sure in The Netherlands there is always included, and on the bill you can see how much VAT is included... If I pay 1000 euro I pay 1000 euro and not 1210 euro, as the VAT is 21% for luxury goods....and a s a tourist I can ask for a special bill to get the VAT back at the airport. And if I am in Spain I can get a meal for 25 euro and that is included VAT not service charge, and it is mentioned in the menu that service charge will be added

[Andrew65]

Over the years I heard quite a few people say that they wouldn't go in a place if they saw "++" on their advertising board. In the UK we're used to 'the price you see is the price you pay'.

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

No they are not, some prices are BTW included others aren't. Have a proper look at a receipt when you buy more expensive items.

Eu law, the advertised price is the price you pay.

They may itemise the bill in different ways, but can't charge more than the sticker price.