Earthing A Washing Machine

[nattydread]

a thai lady friend of mine has just bought a washing machine 3 pin plug....the house is only wired for 2 pin plugs............some advice needed on how to make this safe with the minimum of expense......any pics or links.........thanks

[JetsetBkk]

Search for "copper" in this forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/search.html&...hlite=%2Bcopper

[nattydread]

Search for "copper" in this forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/search.html&...hlite=%2Bcopper

would a portable GFCI / RCBO...........suffice

[nattydread]

or maybe this plug converter with the green wire going to an earthing rod?

[jackr]

There'll be an earth tag on the case of the back of the washer. Bash a nail in the ground and bung a bit of 2.5mm earth cable (green/yellow) from the tag to the nail. Bit rough but it'll save you getting a pisser until you get an earth in the socket.

[tmd5855]

Done the electrics on the GF parents house. You buy an earth stake (copper) fit it (Hammer it down) into moist soil. Run a 2.5mm single core/stranded cable preferably coloured green direct from the stake to the washmacine earth tag, usually at the rear of the machine

[craigt3365]

My washer has a 3 prong plug, but only 2 are permanent. When they setup the machine, they used a screw for the ground plug! Doubt it works very well...but no shocks so far!

[Crossy]

Start here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

Ungrounded washers are notorious for biting the hand that loads them. Our old one bit the missus several times before I checked the plug, it was a Schuko rammed into a regular outlet hidden behind the machine. Replaced the outlet with the proper type for the plug, shocks went away

[Donnyboy]

Start here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

Ungrounded washers are notorious for biting the hand that loads them. Our old one bit the missus several times before I checked the plug, it was a Schuko rammed into a regular outlet hidden behind the machine. Replaced the outlet with the proper type for the plug, shocks went away

thanks crossy, informative webpage

[JetsetBkk]

If you buy a "copper" rod, make sure it is made of copper and not a steel (or wooden) rod painted brown.

[nattydread]

Start here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

Ungrounded washers are notorious for biting the hand that loads them. Our old one bit the missus several times before I checked the plug, it was a Schuko rammed into a regular outlet hidden behind the machine. Replaced the outlet with the proper type for the plug, shocks went away

this is work done by Powerbuy...any comments please Crossy.....i am not in Thailand myself at present so i cannot check it first hand..thanks

[david96]

If you buy a "copper" rod, make sure it is made of copper and not a steel (or wooden) rod painted brown.

12mm diameter copperclad steel 1.2meters into the soil is satisfactory (AS/NZ3000).

This will give the minimum contact area required. Instal where exposed to the weather and protect the earth connection with metallic paint. use an approved clamp to the electrode.

[david96]

Start here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

Ungrounded washers are notorious for biting the hand that loads them. Our old one bit the missus several times before I checked the plug, it was a Schuko rammed into a regular outlet hidden behind the machine. Replaced the outlet with the proper type for the plug, shocks went away

this is work done by Powerbuy...any comments please Crossy.....i am not in Thailand myself at present so i cannot check it first hand..thanks

Would comply with Thai Standards but certainly not AS/NZ 3000.

However this will minimise the risk of shocks from leakage currents.

An RCD should be installed on the circuit to protect from earth faults.

(Non Compliance does not mean that an installation is not safe as far as practicable from the effects of electric shock).

[Crossy]

this is work done by Powerbuy...any comments please Crossy.....i am not in Thailand myself at present so i cannot check it first hand..thanks

If the outlet is grounded and that is a 3-pin TIS166-2549 (2006) http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/TIS166-2549.jpg plug then you don't need the green wire (does it actually go anywhere useful or is it just stuck in a hole?).

That said, the green wire can't do any harm

As noted above an RCD would be a useful addition if you don't already have one.

[powderpuff]

The green wire goes from the chassis of the machine to something (nail?) in the ground.

When you get home - unless you see this: source one at home pro & install yourself.

[nattydread]

this is work done by Powerbuy...any comments please Crossy.....i am not in Thailand myself at present so i cannot check it first hand..thanks

If the outlet is grounded and that is a 3-pin TIS166-2549 (2006) http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/TIS166-2549.jpg plug then you don't need the green wire (does it actually go anywhere useful or is it just stuck in a hole?).

That said, the green wire can't do any harm

As noted above an RCD would be a useful addition if you don't already have one.

i am told it is a brass rod (maybe copper.they are both shiny LOL) and is 50cm long

heres a close up of the breaker box..............my concern is whether there is earth wire in the 3 pin wall unit going back to the consumer unit?

as its only 2 pin electrics would there be an earth in the consumer unit for the wire to be attached to?

[Crossy]

The job done by PowerBuy's 'electricians' shows a worrying (but not surprising) misunderstanding of how things should be done.

They've installed a 3 pin outlet onto a 2 pin system likely without a ground wire running anywhere and then they've grounded the washer metalwork.

What they should have done is run the ground rod from their nice new outlet, then anything plugged in there would be grounded.

If this installation does not already have an RCD / Safe-T-Cut one should be fitted forthwith as with no ground on the rest of the system there is a serious danger of shock!

[tutsiwarrior]

I've got a washer in an upstairs toilet (wet floors) area that's grounded with a small diameter green cable to a copper ground rod outside and an RCBO/Safe-T-Cut built into the consumer box...how does this arrangement compare with a RCD device?

[nattydread]

The job done by PowerBuy's 'electricians' shows a worrying (but not surprising) misunderstanding of how things should be done.

They've installed a 3 pin outlet onto a 2 pin system likely without a ground wire running anywhere and then they've grounded the washer metalwork.

What they should have done is run the ground rod from their nice new outlet, then anything plugged in there would be grounded.

If this installation does not already have an RCD / Safe-T-Cut one should be fitted forthwith as with no ground on the rest of the system there is a serious danger of shock!

thanks so much for your help Crossy..........and to all othe posters

[Crossy]

I've got a washer in an upstairs toilet (wet floors) area that's grounded with a small diameter green cable to a copper ground rod outside and an RCBO/Safe-T-Cut built into the consumer box...how does this arrangement compare with a RCD device?

Both will provide protection from electric shock.

An RCD provides only earth-leakage protection, an RCBO also provides overload protection (like an MCB).

[powderpuff]

i am told it is a brass rod (maybe copper.they are both shiny LOL) and is 50cm long

50 cm is not long enough. Should be more like 1.5 M. As stated above you can change it yourself. You can use that earth for any/all sockets.

[nattydread]

I've got a washer in an upstairs toilet (wet floors) area that's grounded with a small diameter green cable to a copper ground rod outside and an RCBO/Safe-T-Cut built into the consumer box...how does this arrangement compare with a RCD device?

Both will provide protection from electric shock.

An RCD provides only earth-leakage protection, an RCBO also provides overload protection (like an MCB).

can crossy or anybody else give me an opinion of this fuse box please....is the bottom box an RCD ?.......and is this sutiable protection or should i also buy a RCD adaptor in pic and plug the washing machine into that,,,,,,,,thanks again

[Crossy]

Natty, is that the only 'fuse box' in the house?? If so, be afraid, be very afraid!

The thingy with the buttons is a starter, likely with overload protection (it should have a rating in Amps on it), it does NOT provide RCD functionality.

If I were you I'd get a whole house RCD installed, local sparks understand Safe-T-Cut as a local brand and know (mostly) how to install them.

[nattydread]

Natty, is that the only 'fuse box' in the house?? If so, be afraid, be very afraid!

The thingy with the buttons is a starter, likely with overload protection (it should have a rating in Amps on it), it does NOT provide RCD functionality.

If I were you I'd get a whole house RCD installed, local sparks understand Safe-T-Cut as a local brand and know (mostly) how to install them.

thanks again Crossy...........i have told her to buy the RCD adaptor..ground rod...earth wire so at least they will be protected from electric shock from the washing machine......thats as far as it goes for me LOL

[nattydread]

Natty, is that the only 'fuse box' in the house?? If so, be afraid, be very afraid!

The thingy with the buttons is a starter, likely with overload protection (it should have a rating in Amps on it), it does NOT provide RCD functionality.

If I were you I'd get a whole house RCD installed, local sparks understand Safe-T-Cut as a local brand and know (mostly) how to install them.

thanks again Crossy...........i have told her to buy the RCD adaptor..ground rod...earth wire so at least they will be protected from electric shock from the washing machine......thats as far as it goes for me LOL

she cant locate an RCD adaptor that plugs into the socket......at Homepro they have this ELCB unit which i think is probably a better idea anyway..she tells me its an........Earth leakage circuit breaker sensitive current 15 ma court 30 a 200-240 v

would this be suitable and is the circuit diagram i have drawn the correct way for Somachai to wire it in...........thanks again Crossy

Wiring_Diagram.bmp

[lopburi3]

I have never seen outlet type models in Thailand. Normally they sell for whole house. The type you show seems to be a smaller model to protect single circuits and I suspect is two wire only (ground is not required for RCD to trip). If that is the case direct ground of washer would likely be the best option as easy to see and known to most electricians (even upcountry).

[powderpuff]

Natty - in post 25 we see that you have a special kind of a circuit breaker. It has a ground fault interrupt built in. I like those - that plus your grounded chassis should be fine for a while. Just confirm the 2 pin socket is in a sheltered place which CAN NOT see rain - cuz it's mounted (possibly) unecessarily low.

I can post some pictures of some little goodys I installed lately for hot water heater.

[powderpuff]

The OP says he has a .5 meter ground rod so drilling a hole won't be necessary. Getting a good clamp is. See my picture above.

[elkangorito]

The earth rod needs to be a minimum of 2m long. The moisture content & the temperature of the first 500mm of soil is unreliable & inconsistent.

[nattydread]

Natty - in post 25 we see that you have a special kind of a circuit breaker. It has a ground fault interrupt built in. I like those - that plus your grounded chassis should be fine for a while. Just confirm the 2 pin socket is in a sheltered place which CAN NOT see rain - cuz it's mounted (possibly) unecessarily low.

I can post some pictures of some little goodys I installed lately for hot water heater.

she has now used the ELCB /GRCI from homepro and a 2.4m ground rod and clamp ....i gave her this wiring diagram now so i think its now sorted..........thanks to everyone who took the time to post

wiring_pic.bmp