Foreign Editorials Miss The Point On The Cause Of Thailand Crisis

[jayboy]

The headline states "Foreign Editorials Miss The Point On The Cause Of Thailand Crisis" Phetaroi agrees "I happen to agree, at least in general, that the American and world press doesn't "get it" in regard to the real causes of the May 19 rioting and arson." So what's your problem? There's no hint in the article of trying to blame foreigners for the problem s of Thailand, is there?

Agreed!

The Editorial tries to set the record straight, which th WP Article completely fails to address!

Which happened rather often relating to the "upheaval" of recent times in the world's leading media - and that leaves a lot to question!

Why should Thailand, it's Journalists, people concerned, just accept this rather distorted statement , by a renowned media as the WP?

Does it ever occur to apologists for the reactionary clique that controls Thailand that there is something rather odd in the fact that every reputable international media outlet somehow doesn't "get it" about Thailand? Could it be that they "get it" only too well? No news report is ever totally accurate and it's the habit of the apologists to seize on a mistake and hope to undermine the whole thesis.If this fails then the line is spun that Thailand is too difficult for foreigners to understand.What utter balderdash.The apologists argue for some weird form of Thai particularism:they have learnt nothing and they have forgotten nothing.When the whole corrupt and greedy reactionary edifice comes crashing down it will be interesting to see what alternative theories will be posited.But I expect the currently yapping Bangkok Sino-Thai middle class will transfer their loyalties in the time honoured way when the Thai people finally take control.

[GarryP]

In short, westerners (unlike Thais) are not smart enough to understand the political situation in Thailand.

That is why it is a waste of money watching paid foreign media that CNN & BBC, when local free media like NBT (under the instruction of CRES) can do the job of getting the world informed, better.

Wow, a good one from you for a change.

Those 2 Statements,still don't set the record straight what the WP so obviously missed, this in turn opens the question of "how much of their reporting is really up to scratch?" Gentlemen, if you indirectly claim to be "so smart", then please do so, in genuinely thinking smart and then make comments!

Unlike some, I make no pretence at being something I am not. I just really liked Rucharee's pi*s take (if indeed that is the way it was intended) at the westerners' expense (mine included).

Edited July 19, 2010 by GarryP

[NCFC]

Thai news outlets should do more excellent articles like this one challenging distorted views of the situation here. The one factor Amsterdam, Thaksin and co have got working against them is the truth is much cheaper and easier to distribute than their fiction.

And yet the western press still sees the current problems in terms of an excessively oppressed majority finally voicing themselves whether or not Thaksin. The western media and their uncomfortable, awkward truths won't go away. Get used to it. This little third world paradise will modernise sooner rather than later.

"an excessively oppressed majority" ?

The only way these people have been excessively oppressed is through being bribed and intimidated into voting in the Mafia-style politicians that make up much of the Phua Thai party. For the sake of my own family here I genuinely look forward to the day this "third world paradise" modernises "sooner rather than later", but that will only happen with a solid, uncorrupted and freely available educational system. I notice that wasn't high on the list of UDD demands. In fact, did it even make an appearance?

Looks like many of the diplomants of the developed world have got the UDD sussed for what (who) they really represent. It's about time international media stopped buying into the Amsterdam propaganda and started to analyse the situation a bit more closely.

And you display the narrow viewpoint of which you accuse the western press. Thailand's political and economic problems existed way before Pheua Thai, and way before Thaksin ever made an appearance on the scene.

The western press understand this, and they probably have a very good idea of the root causes. Pheua Thai, Thaksin and their adversaries, too, should be seen as symptoms of the problems and not the root cause. There is a reason why a serious educational policy for the masses has never been on the political agenda. You might be looking to beyond your grandchildren before it ever happens.

[Oberkommando]

Perhaps they should try the US method and invade a couple of Muslim nations, say Malaysia and Indonesia seeming that's where the agitators seem to originate.

That is exactly what has caused the troubles in the Southern Provinces ironically, fortunately the British prevented the Thais from claiming sovereignty over a further seven provinces, and they are now part of Malaysia.

[Insight]

Thai news outlets should do more excellent articles like this one challenging distorted views of the situation here. The one factor Amsterdam, Thaksin and co have got working against them is the truth is much cheaper and easier to distribute than their fiction.

And yet the western press still sees the current problems in terms of an excessively oppressed majority finally voicing themselves whether or not Thaksin. The western media and their uncomfortable, awkward truths won't go away. Get used to it. This little third world paradise will modernise sooner rather than later.

"an excessively oppressed majority" ?

The only way these people have been excessively oppressed is through being bribed and intimidated into voting in the Mafia-style politicians that make up much of the Phua Thai party. For the sake of my own family here I genuinely look forward to the day this "third world paradise" modernises "sooner rather than later", but that will only happen with a solid, uncorrupted and freely available educational system. I notice that wasn't high on the list of UDD demands. In fact, did it even make an appearance?

Looks like many of the diplomants of the developed world have got the UDD sussed for what (who) they really represent. It's about time international media stopped buying into the Amsterdam propaganda and started to analyse the situation a bit more closely.

And you display the narrow viewpoint of which you accuse the western press. Thailand's political and economic problems existed way before Pheua Thai, and way before Thaksin ever made an appearance on the scene.

The western press understand this, and they probably have a very good idea of the root causes. Pheua Thai, Thaksin and their adversaries, too, should be seen as symptoms of the problems and not the root cause. There is a reason why a serious educational policy for the masses has never been on the political agenda. You might be looking to beyond your grandchildren before it ever happens.

My "narrow" viewpoint knows exactly what side is attempting to exasperate the problem and what site has started offering free education programs and offering to cover schooling costs such as uniforms. My viewpoint also knows which side has been dependant on lies, propaganda and sensationalism to promote its cause and which side as attempting to address the issues through balanced and progressive means. Neither is in favour of UDD/PT et al.

[canuckamuck]

In short, westerners (unlike Thais) are not smart enough to understand the political situation in Thailand.

That is why it is a waste of money watching paid foreign media that CNN & BBC, when local free media like NBT (under the instruction of CRES) can do the job of getting the world informed, better.

The foreign medias might not comprehend all of the twists and turns of the Thai political scene, but the Thai reporters rarely get away with telling the truth. I would rather hear an honest opinion over propaganda any time.

Edited July 19, 2010 by canuckamuck

[Thai at Heart]

We can't even discuss the ENTIRE issue here anyway.

[mark45y]

The people in the land of O were good and kind farmers. They were ruled by three elements in society. A giant, the old crooks and the new crooks.

The giant liked to play with toys. The old crooks and the new crooks gave the giant toys to play with.

The people grew tired of not having any toys and asked the new crooks and the old crooks for some toys to play with like the giant.

The new crooks gave the people some of the giants toys.

The giant became very angry at the people having toys and even angrier that the toys were taken from him. So he picked up the new crooks leader and kicked him as far as he could outside of the kingdom of O.

The giant warned the old crooks not to let the leader of the new crooks back into the kingdom.

The old crooks think the people don’t know how bad the new crooks are. The new crooks don’t think the people know how bad the old crooks are.

The old crooks think the people ignorant. The new crooks think the people ignorant too.

However, once the people had played with the toys be they ever so small and ever so few they had experienced the joy of the toys.

Try as the old crooks may they cannot erase the memory of the toys. The toys are out of the bag.

As big as the giant is and as strong as his kick is and as clever as the old crooks are and as devious as the new crooks there are more people than crooks and giants.

Sooner or the giant will have to deal with the people and give up some of his toys.

I think the Washington Post has it figured out.

[Rucharee]

In short, westerners (unlike Thais) are not smart enough to understand the political situation in Thailand.

That is why it is a waste of money watching paid foreign media that CNN & BBC, when local free media like NBT (under the instruction of CRES) can do the job of getting the world informed, better.

Wow, a good one from you for a change.

Those 2 Statements,still don't set the record straight what the WP so obviously missed, this in turn opens the question of "how much of their reporting is really up to scratch?" Gentlemen, if you indirectly claim to be "so smart", then please do so, in genuinely thinking smart and then make comments!

Unlike some, I make no pretence at being something I am not. I just really liked Rucharee's pi*s take (if indeed that is the way it was intended) at the westerners' expense (mine included).

It is a fact that Farangs will not be able to comprehend a Thai problem, better than a Thai.

Is this a fair statement?

So go watch your CRES directed NBT, rather than CNN/BBC.

[phetaroi]

CNX...probably the best general analysis of Thai government I have ever read.

I disagree with you on only one point. When you say, "the loosers are the Thai people who have been watching this for decades and are helpless to do something about it," I would remind you of two things. In general, the "Thai people" just don't care. And, not only do they not care, but they contribute to the situation by accepting payment to vote for certain candidates. The Thai people have the government they deserve.

I also do think there are a very small number of politicians who are relatively honest. Certainly Anand. And probably Abhisit (not that he doesn't have other failings).

[Insight]

The people in the land of O were good and kind farmers. They were ruled by three elements in society. A giant, the old crooks and the new crooks.

The giant liked to play with toys. The old crooks and the new crooks gave the giant toys to play with.

The people grew tired of not having any toys and asked the new crooks and the old crooks for some toys to play with like the giant.

The new crooks gave the people some of the giants toys.

The giant became very angry at the people having toys and even angrier that the toys were taken from him. So he picked up the new crooks leader and kicked him as far as he could outside of the kingdom of O.

The giant warned the old crooks not to let the leader of the new crooks back into the kingdom.

The old crooks think the people don’t know how bad the new crooks are. The new crooks don’t think the people know how bad the old crooks are.

The old crooks think the people ignorant. The new crooks think the people ignorant too.

However, once the people had played with the toys be they ever so small and ever so few they had experienced the joy of the toys.

Try as the old crooks may they cannot erase the memory of the toys. The toys are out of the bag.

As big as the giant is and as strong as his kick is and as clever as the old crooks are and as devious as the new crooks there are more people than crooks and giants.

Sooner or the giant will have to deal with the people and give up some of his toys.

I think the Washington Post has it figured out.

Problem with this analogy is that you're taking the giant for an idiot.

It's clear who the new crooks are, but can you identify the old crooks are and how they influence the situation presently? Am sure there's no laws against doing that.

As Mrs Insight says (modifying yr analogy somewhat), the giant would prefer the people to learn to make their own toys.

Good luck with yr thinly veiled agenda anyhow.

[Siam Simon]

Thai news outlets should do more excellent articles like this one challenging distorted views of the situation here. The one factor Amsterdam, Thaksin and co have got working against them is the truth is much cheaper and easier to distribute than their fiction.

And yet the western press still sees the current problems in terms of an excessively oppressed majority finally voicing themselves whether or not Thaksin. The western media and their uncomfortable, awkward truths won't go away. Get used to it. This little third world paradise will modernise sooner rather than later.

"an excessively oppressed majority" ?

The only way these people have been excessively oppressed is through being bribed and intimidated into voting in the Mafia-style politicians that make up much of the Phua Thai party. For the sake of my own family here I genuinely look forward to the day this "third world paradise" modernises "sooner rather than later", but that will only happen with a solid, uncorrupted and freely available educational system. I notice that wasn't high on the list of UDD demands. In fact, did it even make an appearance?

Looks like many of the diplomants of the developed world have got the UDD sussed for what (who) they really represent. It's about time international media stopped buying into the Amsterdam propaganda and started to analyse the situation a bit more closely.

Both the Western diplomats and the Western media have the current situation assessed correctly, just as they did under Thaksin's management. They know that Thaksin has been helping to fund the anti-government protests and they also know what (who) the current government really represents (just a different set of ugly mushes swilling at the trough). Western governments and media support the Thai people, not the latest mafia at the helm.

[Insight]

Thai news outlets should do more excellent articles like this one challenging distorted views of the situation here. The one factor Amsterdam, Thaksin and co have got working against them is the truth is much cheaper and easier to distribute than their fiction.

And yet the western press still sees the current problems in terms of an excessively oppressed majority finally voicing themselves whether or not Thaksin. The western media and their uncomfortable, awkward truths won't go away. Get used to it. This little third world paradise will modernise sooner rather than later.

"an excessively oppressed majority" ?

The only way these people have been excessively oppressed is through being bribed and intimidated into voting in the Mafia-style politicians that make up much of the Phua Thai party. For the sake of my own family here I genuinely look forward to the day this "third world paradise" modernises "sooner rather than later", but that will only happen with a solid, uncorrupted and freely available educational system. I notice that wasn't high on the list of UDD demands. In fact, did it even make an appearance?

Looks like many of the diplomants of the developed world have got the UDD sussed for what (who) they really represent. It's about time international media stopped buying into the Amsterdam propaganda and started to analyse the situation a bit more closely.

Both the Western diplomats and the Western media have the current situation assessed correctly, just as they did under Thaksin's management. They know that Thaksin has been helping to fund the anti-government protests and they also know what (who) the current government really represents (just a different set of ugly mushes swilling at the trough). Western governments and media support the Thai people, not the latest mafia at the helm.

"(just a different set of ugly mushes swilling at the trough)"

Can somebody elaborate on this please? The only people I can think of Mr Simon is referring to is the likes of BJT and Puea Padin coalition parties. BJT had their less-than-savoury healthcare antics

stopped in their tracks by the Dems, yet have still remained coalition partners throughout all the chaos. Wasn't there some other suspect public transport project which was also halted by the Democrats? We're talking over a year ago now.

Any other examples?

[dumball]

Confusion riegneth . I can give you a somewhat different anology that some of you can appreciate .

You are sat mulling over a problomatic piece of equipment with no obvious fix in your bewildered state of mind , a casual observer has been looking over your shoulder for some time and eventually passes comment for a fix , you more or less tell him to p@#@s off . Walking away from the problem for a rethink , you realise the casual observer had a point from a different perspective to your own , the problem was no longer a problem , the answer had come to you with a little outside assistance .

The problems of Thailand are very complex , the main factor seems to be rarely , if ever , brought to light , the status quo are happy with the way things are because it is the easy way out at the present time , lack of the needed education does not help this factor nor indeed , any true way forward for the forseable future of Thailand . Even a half-ass listen to 'Outsiders' may be all that is needed to assess the situation from a different angle , but that is obviously not the Thai way , nor the thinking of several posters on this thread because they also are too imbeded as Thai to change either .

The truth of a matter will always be the truth , until or unless one learns that the truth will always prevail over lies and deciet , nothing will happen for the good of forward progress and reformating that which poses the problem .

Please read and comprehend , using the commas as pauses to get the gist of what I have written , haste makes waste .

[GarryP]

In short, westerners (unlike Thais) are not smart enough to understand the political situation in Thailand.

That is why it is a waste of money watching paid foreign media that CNN & BBC, when local free media like NBT (under the instruction of CRES) can do the job of getting the world informed, better.

Wow, a good one from you for a change.

Unlike some, I make no pretence at being something I am not. I just really liked Rucharee's pi*s take (if indeed that is the way it was intended) at the westerners' expense (mine included).

It is a fact that Farangs will not be able to comprehend a Thai problem, better than a Thai.

Is this a fair statement?

So go watch your CRES directed NBT, rather than CNN/BBC.

The average Thai doesn't know what is happening (and really couldn't care) so I doubt that the average farang will understand.

However, your statement is a very broad generalization. There are quite a few foreigners (farang and non-farang)who have been here for a great number of years, are fluent in the language and have their fingers firmly on the pulse of Thai politics and all things Thai. These people certainly know more than the average Thai and probably as much or more than some of the Thais you look up to - although those Thais would never acknowledge the fact for the very reason you spout, i.e. they are farang so they can't know more about Thailand (could this be something to do with face?). (I do not include myself as one of the learned farangs by the way). These people know when they are being bullshitted about what is happening in Thailand, but are well enough informed to know when to shut up.

I do, however, agree that the "average" poster on TV does not really understand what is happening here in Thailand, although many pretend they do. But, there are a few very knowledgeable posters here who could possibly put you to shame on things Thai. :jap:

[Rucharee]

But, there are a few very knowledgeable posters here who could possibly put you to shame on things Thai. :jap:

Really?

Edited July 20, 2010 by Rucharee

[mark45y]

The people who know what's going on can't write about it, so how would you know if they know what's going on?

[bunuel]

Of course, THE NATION, unlike THE WASHINGTON POST, is a great, internationally reknowned publication with a long tradition of speaking truth to power. Indeed, only THE NATION has been brave enough to point out that all the supposedly "independent" international media icons like the BBC, CNN, THE WASHINGTON POST, THE NEW YORK TIMES, et omnes, are all barking up the wrong tree when they claim that a lack of democracy in Thailand lies at the heart of the heart of the matter. Guess we will not be seeingT the words of the great Scottish poet Robert Burns in THE NATION any time soon: " Would God give us the gift to see ourselves as others see us; ' twould from many an error free us - and foolish notion..

In short, westerners (unlike Thais) are not smart enough to understand the political situation in Thailand.

That is why it is a waste of money watching paid foreign media that CNN & BBC, when local free media like NBT (under the instruction of CRES) can do the job of getting the world informed, better.

[philw]

The people who know what's going on can't write about it, so how would you know if they know what's going on?

Nail, head, hammer.....Score max points.

The situation in a nutshell.

ph

[Insight]

The people who know what's going on can't write about it, so how would you know if they know what's going on?

Nail, head, hammer.....Score max points.

The situation in a nutshell.

ph

You mean it's beyond the comprehension of us mere mortals?

I'm still waiting for somebody to ID these "old crooks". Is Chavalit one of them?

[Siam Simon]

The people who know what's going on can't write about it, so how would you know if they know what's going on?

Nail, head, hammer.....Score max points.

The situation in a nutshell.

ph

You mean it's beyond the comprehension of us mere mortals?

I'm still waiting for somebody to ID these "old crooks". Is Chavalit one of them?

Do your own groundwork. The info is out there. I actually find you and your posts more than a little bit sinister. Are you being paid to post here? Your posts are absurdly slanted for a supposed expat.

[Insight]

The people who know what's going on can't write about it, so how would you know if they know what's going on?

Nail, head, hammer.....Score max points.

The situation in a nutshell.

ph

You mean it's beyond the comprehension of us mere mortals?

I'm still waiting for somebody to ID these "old crooks". Is Chavalit one of them?

Do your own groundwork. The info is out there. I actually find you and your posts more than a little bit sinister. Are you being paid to post here? Your posts are absurdly slanted for a supposed expat.

Are you even remotely serious with that accusation? I have ethical principles higher than your average whore and my views are entirely my own, thank you very much. I'm also not supporting a side that has budgeted more than a few million dollars in PR; this forum is not without its fair share of highly suspect members supporting the red cause.

/edit - If you can't provide any more info on the forum you can at least send me a PM. After that baseless accusation I look forward to receiving it.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Insight

[Insight]

9.15am here on sunny Asok, it's way past Siam Simon's typical posting time in whatever time zone he is in - and nothing. No PM's, no replies. Can't say I'm surprised.

Bottom line is that people supporting the red cause - both sponsored and genuine sympathisers - are using the existence of these admittedly poor laws to cover the flaws in their own arguments, as seen above.

Am not holding out for any further replies on the matter.

[Siam Simon]

"(just a different set of ugly mushes swilling at the trough)"

Can somebody elaborate on this please? The only people I can think of Mr Simon is referring to is the likes of BJT and Puea Padin coalition parties. BJT had their less-than-savoury healthcare antics

stopped in their tracks by the Dems, yet have still remained coalition partners throughout all the chaos. Wasn't there some other suspect public transport project which was also halted by the Democrats? We're talking over a year ago now.

Any other examples?

The 'Some other public transport project' (the 62 billion, yes billion, bt gas-powered Bangkok bus-leasing project) was approved last September. The only thing holding up it's commencement is the lack of a schedule on redundancies caused by the proposed automated ticketing. This project has been discussed at length on TV and was exposed by industry experts as being waaaay too expensive .

Then there's the Gryphon. Again discussed at length on TV. The seemingly way-over-the odds price being paid for them is apparently down to the expense of training courses being conducted in Thai and a few extra go-faster stripes and suchlike .

Of course, the ongoing Democrat funding issue began before they were in government, but most of the current leading figures were at the helm of the party (including Abhisit and Suthep) when it did.

How's the ongoing fake bomb detector story going? I've only read stuff in the farang press about this recently, in which the British police are investigating possible corruption between the British companies who made this heap of rubbish and foreign governments and armies who purchased it. Could be pretty explosive stuff (excuse the pun), considering that a device which only cost about a thousand baht to make was being purchased for fifty thousand baht a throw and more .

[Siripon]

"(just a different set of ugly mushes swilling at the trough)"

Can somebody elaborate on this please? The only people I can think of Mr Simon is referring to is the likes of BJT and Puea Padin coalition parties. BJT had their less-than-savoury healthcare antics

stopped in their tracks by the Dems, yet have still remained coalition partners throughout all the chaos. Wasn't there some other suspect public transport project which was also halted by the Democrats? We're talking over a year ago now.

Any other examples?

The 'Some other public transport project' (the 62 billion, yes billion, bt gas-powered Bangkok bus-leasing project) was approved last September. The only thing holding up it's commencement is the lack of a schedule on redundancies caused by the proposed automated ticketing. This project has been discussed at length on TV and was exposed by industry experts as being waaaay too expensive .

Then there's the Gryphon. Again discussed at length on TV. The seemingly way-over-the odds price being paid for them is apparently down to the expense of training courses being conducted in Thai and a few extra go-faster stripes and suchlike .

Of course, the ongoing Democrat funding issue began before they were in government, but most of the current leading figures were at the helm of the party (including Abhisit and Suthep) when it did.

How's the ongoing fake bomb detector story going? I've only read stuff in the farang press about this recently, in which the British police are investigating possible corruption between the British companies who made this heap of rubbish and foreign governments and armies who purchased it. Could be pretty explosive stuff (excuse the pun), considering that a device which only cost about a thousand baht to make was being purchased for fifty thousand baht a throw and more .

At the time of the TPI case (rapidly falling apart), Banyat was leader of the Democrats and Pradit,(now with Thai Chart Pattana I think), was Secretary General.

The fake bomb detector was first purchased when Thaksin was PM.

[Insight]

The 'Some other public transport project' (the 62 billion, yes billion, bt gas-powered Bangkok bus-leasing project) was approved last September. The only thing holding up it's commencement is the lack of a schedule on redundancies caused by the proposed automated ticketing. This project has been discussed at length on TV and was exposed by industry experts as being waaaay too expensive .

So it hasn't happened yet?

Then there's the Gryphon. Again discussed at length on TV. The seemingly way-over-the odds price being paid for them is apparently down to the expense of training courses being conducted in Thai and a few extra go-faster stripes and suchlike .

Am not familiar with this one. Has this one happened yet?

[Siam Simon]

"(just a different set of ugly mushes swilling at the trough)"

Can somebody elaborate on this please? The only people I can think of Mr Simon is referring to is the likes of BJT and Puea Padin coalition parties. BJT had their less-than-savoury healthcare antics

stopped in their tracks by the Dems, yet have still remained coalition partners throughout all the chaos. Wasn't there some other suspect public transport project which was also halted by the Democrats? We're talking over a year ago now.

Any other examples?

The 'Some other public transport project' (the 62 billion, yes billion, bt gas-powered Bangkok bus-leasing project) was approved last September. The only thing holding up it's commencement is the lack of a schedule on redundancies caused by the proposed automated ticketing. This project has been discussed at length on TV and was exposed by industry experts as being waaaay too expensive .

Then there's the Gryphon. Again discussed at length on TV. The seemingly way-over-the odds price being paid for them is apparently down to the expense of training courses being conducted in Thai and a few extra go-faster stripes and suchlike .

Of course, the ongoing Democrat funding issue began before they were in government, but most of the current leading figures were at the helm of the party (including Abhisit and Suthep) when it did.

How's the ongoing fake bomb detector story going? I've only read stuff in the farang press about this recently, in which the British police are investigating possible corruption between the British companies who made this heap of rubbish and foreign governments and armies who purchased it. Could be pretty explosive stuff (excuse the pun), considering that a device which only cost about a thousand baht to make was being purchased for fifty thousand baht a throw and more .

At the time of the TPI case (rapidly falling apart), Banyat was leader of the Democrats and Pradit,(now with Thai Chart Pattana I think), was Secretary General.

The fake bomb detector was first purchased when Thaksin was PM.

Yes, even The Nation expressed surprise at the decision to drop the case against TPI . So Suthep and Abhisit weren't senior figures in the Democrats back then?

There were, I think, two fake bomb detectors purchased for evaluation purposes under Thaksin's watch and several thousand purchased subsequent to the coup that ousted him. Maybe Thaksin was party to making money from this one (and it wouldn't surprise me if he was), but he never got the opportunity to do so. Others clearly did, though.

[Siam Simon]

The 'Some other public transport project' (the 62 billion, yes billion, bt gas-powered Bangkok bus-leasing project) was approved last September. The only thing holding up it's commencement is the lack of a schedule on redundancies caused by the proposed automated ticketing. This project has been discussed at length on TV and was exposed by industry experts as being waaaay too expensive .

So it hasn't happened yet?

Then there's the Gryphon. Again discussed at length on TV. The seemingly way-over-the odds price being paid for them is apparently down to the expense of training courses being conducted in Thai and a few extra go-faster stripes and suchlike .

Am not familiar with this one. Has this one happened yet?

The situation that I explained to you regarding the overpriced bus leasing scheme is available to read at the Bangkok Post online (I'm not allowed to link to it, as I'm sure you know). If you're struggling to find the article, search the site with "new buses". It's currently the first result. By the way, there is an interesting article currently on the front page of that website on the army's shopping list. well worth a read .

The Gryphon/Griffin/Gripen fighter jet was discussed at length on TV here:

You didn't know anything about this dodgy deal? You surprise me.

It's bloody hard work debating with you: I have to do all your ground work for you.

[Insight]

The 'Some other public transport project' (the 62 billion, yes billion, bt gas-powered Bangkok bus-leasing project) was approved last September. The only thing holding up it's commencement is the lack of a schedule on redundancies caused by the proposed automated ticketing. This project has been discussed at length on TV and was exposed by industry experts as being waaaay too expensive .

So it hasn't happened yet?

Then there's the Gryphon. Again discussed at length on TV. The seemingly way-over-the odds price being paid for them is apparently down to the expense of training courses being conducted in Thai and a few extra go-faster stripes and suchlike .

Am not familiar with this one. Has this one happened yet?

The situation that I explained to you regarding the overpriced bus leasing scheme is available to read at the Bangkok Post online (I'm not allowed to link to it, as I'm sure you know). If you're struggling to find the article, search the site with "new buses". It's currently the first result. By the way, there is an interesting article currently on the front page of that website on the army's shopping list. well worth a read .

The Gryphon/Griffin/Gripen fighter jet was discussed at length on TV here:

You didn't know anything about this dodgy deal? You surprise me.

It's bloody hard work debating with you: I have to do all your ground work for you.

Thanks for (finally) providing some real info other than the usual "snouts in the trough" accusations. I'm glad you do find it hard work - backing up vague claims often is. Frankly the levels of graft you highlight pales to the situation 5+ years ago, and all attempts appear to be getting a pretty tough time in the media yet the media is not being sued for billions with journalists being investigated for corruption. I was personally close to people aware of the corruption involved in the BJT hospital fund scandals and was pleased to see the Dems can it (as were the people aware), and hope all other uncovered attempts of graft go the same way. As mentioned, I would be far less optimistic of the same thing happening several years ago.

[Siam Simon]

Thanks for (finally) providing some real info other than the usual "snouts in the trough" accusations. I'm glad you do find it hard work - backing up vague claims often is. Frankly the levels of graft you highlight pales to the situation 5+ years ago, and all attempts appear to be getting a pretty tough time in the media yet the media is not being sued for billions with journalists being investigated for corruption. I was personally close to people aware of the corruption involved in the BJT hospital fund scandals and was pleased to see the Dems can it (as were the people aware), and hope all other uncovered attempts of graft go the same way. As mentioned, I would be far less optimistic of the same thing happening several years ago.

The "bloody hard work" remark was meant to be a joke. There is plenty of in-depth info and discussion about corruption in today's Thailand available here and elsewhere. responding to the constant demands for it starts to turn these threads into something resembling a telephone directory. Don't any of you apologists for the current regime ever read any of it? The current level of graft pales in comparison heh? In the cases of both the buses and fighter jets, detailed analysis of the maths shows around 30% graft for both. This amounts to around 20 billion baht/400 million quid/600 million dollars for the buses alone. This is small time, is it? Yeah, right .