Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[katabeachbum]

So far Kwaker has like 97% of the +240cc market. Kwaker has crowded this country with inexpensive high quality bikes with clean books. Honda is for the first time entering this part of the LOS bike market, and no doubt the cheap CBR 250 with its huge amount of dealers is going to take a giant piece of the 250cc cake.

has anyone noticed while kwaker offers proper bike finance for Ninjette at 6-7% a year, Honda seems to want dealer scoot finance for their 250 at 0,8% a MONTH.

[nikster]

100k - wow. Well supply and demand, my friend got the probably first one in CM just today for 115k. Clearly the dealers are making their cut here, and yeah it's a bit lame from Honda that they didn't fix the price.

Works for him though - he needs a bike right now. Was supposed to be ready today but there was some issue with the battery so it's tomorrow.

The bike looks as expected - great. Beautiful design. Sized like a real bike, not toy size like the old CBR150.

Frankly I find the negative comments on the CBR250 bizarre. More bikes to choose from! Good for everyone! Right?

I'll stick with the 5:1... as someone mentioned above the # of dealerships in Thailand should make that a no-brainer. Honda probably has 10 dealers or more for every Kawa dealer... I love the Ninjette but a 30% / 40k price difference - once the initial excitement has worn off and they're sold for 100k - is hard to overcome.

[bobbin]

As for affecting resale price, they're different bikes with different specs which will appeal to people with different tastes. Does a Mini lose value because a Honda City is released at 30% of the price? Of course not.

They are obviously different bikes with different specs but they are aimed at the same market segment.

Kawasaki took advantage of the fact they were the only game in town to charge the price they did. As one poster mentioned, perhaps their only face-saving out is to include ABS on new models at the current price.

There are none so blind as those that will not see......

[CMX]

My farang face here in Chiang Mai asked about price to be told 115 for the non-ABS and 130,000 for the ABS next year. I'm not in this anyway, but I told her that the price was far too high and that I'd go to Bangkok first. Reply: Very difficult with registration and changing up to Chiang Mai. I suggested that in six months it would be lower, but she thought not, she said.

Guess there was a sales meeting. Clearly there has been a decision by local dealers to take an extra 10-15%. Avarice is not unique to the land of my birth. Of course, I don't know what would happen if I plunked 105 on a table or 120 when the ABS models arrive; asking price may well not be their bottom line. But I have seen the elephant, sort of, a red one with the seat removed.

[Gippy]

has anyone noticed while kwaker offers proper bike finance for Ninjette at 6-7% a year, Honda seems to want dealer scoot finance for their 250 at 0,8% a MONTH.

Yeah, I noticed. The lack of a good finance deal from Honda means a cash purchase is the only sensible option. The price gouging by dealers is probably going to put the price of the ABS model up to 130,000 which is bigger than my current pile of cash. I have been eagerly awaiting the 250 but now I'm thinking of taking my money to Kawasaki and using it as a down payment on a bigger bike instead.

[Just1Voice]

It all still goes back to my earlier 3 questions.

1 - Do I like it?

2 - Does it suit my needs/purposes?

3 - Can I afford it?

Doesn't matter if it's a new CBR 150 - 250, Ninja, or Scoopy. If your answer to all three is "yes", then that's what you buy.

P.S. Maybe a bit off topic here, but the new Scoopy is a GREAT little bike! Weaves in and out of traffic like a snake through bamboo, quick response, and will be doing 90+kph on the highway before you even realize it!

[JonnyF]

As for affecting resale price, they're different bikes with different specs which will appeal to people with different tastes. Does a Mini lose value because a Honda City is released at 30% of the price? Of course not.

They are obviously different bikes with different specs but they are aimed at the same market segment.

Kawasaki took advantage of the fact they were the only game in town to charge the price they did. As one poster mentioned, perhaps their only face-saving out is to include ABS on new models at the current price.

There are none so blind as those that will not see......

No problem, I think on looks,spec and service that the Kawa is worth the extra 25-30k baht that I paid but let's just agree to disagree. I hope you get as much enjoyment from the Honda as I've had from the Kawasaki over the past 2 and a half years.

I look forward to reading some ride reports from the guys who have bought them.

[Just1Voice]

I look forward to reading some ride reports from the guys who have bought them.

Agreed, and I'm sure they'll all like theirs as much as I do my tri-color 150. BUT, the thing I want to see is a verifiable, run off between the two 250's by an independent organization, such as a biker mag.

[cragzdee]

Hi

just been to see the new CBR 250 and I gotta say it looked nice for sure, but the price quoted at 115K for the non-abs is a bit pricy for me.

I'm still torn between the 150 and 250 but may just go for the150 ....as J1 says if it ticks all the boxes what more do you want.

[appropriate]

After being told late yesterday evening that they have one for 110k all in, I arrived this morning to be 3rd in line and have to wait for delivery early next week, deposit paid, and collection by Wednesday.

As for the ninja debate, different riders different feelings. I've a feeling I'll prefer the CBR regardless of the price issue. I'm a highway commuter and like to get away to cruise around the mountains and countryside every long weekend and holiday I get. I like to cruise and go slowly, 130 cruising is fine for me, doing it in the midrange, great. I like to have power and torque in the low end and don't really want to cruise around at 10,000rpm in order to enjoy the engine. I'm sure the ninja would be nicer in the mountain twisties, but that will be so little of my riding as not to make a difference. I'm sure the ninja will be better in the top end, but again, that's so little of my riding as to not make a difference. I'm sure the 150 could do 90% of what I'll do on the 250, but again don't want to be in the redline in order to cruise in the outside lane for a few hours when touring... plus I also want to feel more power.

It costing 110k all in, as opposed to what, 155k+ all in for the ninjette, I'm happy with that.

Cheers chaps. Roll on next week.

Edited December 17, 2010 by appropriate

[appropriate]

It doesn't take long.

Cheap Thai pipe - 6,500b.

Of more interest to me, LED Indicators. 600b per pair.

Nice looking mirrors - 800b per pair.

Rear visibilty doesn't seem too good, but hey, I usually use mine as something other than a pushed in an aerodynamic aid so probably don't understand the thai way.

Might get me some indicators as soon as the stock ones are taken off with a local's wave or fino. Shouldn't take long.

Edited December 17, 2010 by appropriate

[Tiffer]

I must be calling the wrong dealers in BKK...

Who's got the 250 in the shop for a cash buyer

Working out in Nakhon Nayok 4 days a week I don't have much time to scout around BKK...

Go on. Throw me a bone... any names/numbers...

[JonnyF]

That pipe looks quite nice, and the silver/black is a an improvement on the red one IMO.

I'm guessing replacing the pipe will invalidate the warranty though, anyone know?

Appropriate - when you say 155k+ for the Ninja "all in", I assume you're including first class insurance in that as the price is still around 147k. Did you get full insurance included in the 110k you paid for the Honda?

[dave_boo]

Yeah but Dave, you've hardly ridden in Thailand.

How many km on your Ninjette now?

I assure you they are out there-

And anyways, just because a certain motorcycle (think Honda Phantom) is more "common" certainly doesn't mean it's "better" (think BMW S1000RR) does it? Strange logic you're using there my friend

There seems to be, in my humble opinion, a bit of "irrational exuberance" regarding this new CBR250.

Yes, it's a nice looking bike and it's cheap. And ABS on a 250cc bike is quite revolutionary.

Beyond that I really don't see what all the excitement is about. It's only a 250cc bike after all, and to keep price low Honda made it a single, much to the chagrin of many who were hoping for a twin.

End result is a cheap and capable 250 misbadged as a CBR that's a bit overweight and underpowered compared to its closest competitor, the Kwacker Ninjette 250R.

Really comes down to what you're looking for.

If you want to win races you'll buy the Ninja 250R. If you want a nice looking cheap 250cc bike then the CBR 250 will fit the bill nicely. Then again, a Tiger Boxer 250RS is probably just as capable as the new CBR, but quite a bit cheaper.

I'm sorry if you consider this "thread crapping". I'm just sharing my two satang. :jap:

Ride On!

Tony

I've admitted that I'm a Hondawhore on numerous occasions...don't know why you continue to be surprised! Having stated that it should be obvious that even though I'm probably not going to get one of these bikes I'm interested in it. I forget how many km I have exactly on the Ninja, but it is in excess of 10K, I don't want to go overboard but I think it's close to 15K. Considering was put on in some six weeks I've got some 2000 km a week and still stand by my assertion. It's also interesting that to rebut my argument you used a picture that simply re-enforces my qualifier; it appears you took your picture from a planned Kawasaki ride. There's nothing wrong with that but honestly the last time we rode together did you see any Kawasaki Ninjas?

I didn't come out and say that the CBR 250R was better than the Ninja--excepting for perhaps new riders. I've postulated that it could perhaps be as or faster in top gear, but I live in a world of numbers and understand that a shoot-out would be required to prove me wrong! If better selling equated better quality than Celine Dion would wipe the floor with Our Lady Peace!

It's also telling that for someone who crowed quite frequently about the prices of Kawker machines (especially the "Ninja" 650), you know sneer about Honda's offering since price is a major component. I'll also let the "which will win races" be decided by my aforementioned shoot-out.

Yep, that's thread-crapping Tony.

Just be glad (I'm sure you are), that you are a past owner of a Ninja 250 or it would be you that was out Bt70K.

Kudos to Dave for not expressing any bitterness.

I'm not bitter; my wife bought it....I'm just upset that they didn't go direct injection four with cam gears....although it would be hard to justify the price!

[thaicbr]

I'm not being funny. BUT who here didn't think that APe were going to cock up the release.. i for one fully expected it... especially after the Moto-expo.

I have a feeling that The release that every one saw..eg the 100,000b was actually the dealer price.. and it was leaked. so APe had to cut some more money off the price. but 4,000b is NOT a good profit on a 100,000b bike, hence the price increases.. also APe Honda's distribution system in 3 tier so it depends on where the shops get the bikes to what price they pay.

 

[dave_boo]

So far Kwaker has like 97% of the +240cc market. Kwaker has crowded this country with inexpensive high quality bikes with clean books. Honda is for the first time entering this part of the LOS bike market, and no doubt the cheap CBR 250 with its huge amount of dealers is going to take a giant piece of the 250cc cake.

has anyone noticed while kwaker offers proper bike finance for Ninjette at 6-7% a year, Honda seems to want dealer scoot finance for their 250 at 0,8% a MONTH.

I don't doubt that Kawasaki has taken 97% of new sales. But what is that number in cold hard digits?

I'm a bit sceptical about that 0,8% per month; it ends up being some 9,6% per year which seems very high. Wonder if that was the farang pricing from a local lender? I guess until someone finances it through Honda we won't know!

[dave_boo]

I'm not being funny. BUT who here didn't think that APe were going to cock up the release.. i for one fully expected it... especially after the Moto-expo.

I have a feeling that The release that every one saw..eg the 100,000b was actually the dealer price.. and it was leaked. so APe had to cut some more money off the price. but 4,000b is NOT a good profit on a 100,000b bike, hence the price increases.. also APe Honda's distribution system in 3 tier so it depends on where the shops get the bikes to what price they pay.

You could be right about there being a cock-up. We are talking about APe Honda!

However that's based on the assumption that they did not intend for the bike to has a MSRP of 100 000 THB and are saving face by aggressively pricing it to get the dealers to meet a supposedly leaked slide with incorrect information. Were we talking of Honda Japan I could believe such a scenario, but com'on, it's APe Honda and their mai bpen rai attitude. I believe that the best barometer will be to look at Honda US pricing; the Ninja is essentially the same price in both countries; I would assume that the CBR would be same-same.

[thaicbr]

So far Kwaker has like 97% of the +240cc market. Kwaker has crowded this country with inexpensive high quality bikes with clean books. Honda is for the first time entering this part of the LOS bike market, and no doubt the cheap CBR 250 with its huge amount of dealers is going to take a giant piece of the 250cc cake.

has anyone noticed while kwaker offers proper bike finance for Ninjette at 6-7% a year, Honda seems to want dealer scoot finance for their 250 at 0,8% a MONTH.

I don't doubt that Kawasaki has taken 97% of new sales.  But what is that number in cold hard digits?  

I'm a bit sceptical about that 0,8% per month; it ends up being some 9,6% per year which seems very high.  Wonder if that was the farang pricing from a local lender?  I guess until someone finances it through Honda we won't know!

Dave.. Thats kinda of the problem.. as far as we know Honda have NOT actually sorted out any finance or 1st class insurance... on the PCX the finance WAS 0.89% per MONTH. that was the lowest anD organized through AEON..

Hopefully some of the bigger dealers..Mityont or similar will organize proper finance. AND 1st class insurance.

[mbox]

There's nothing wrong with that but honestly the last time we rode together did you see any Kawasaki Ninjas?

Hi Dave, you are right - there were not any ninja's seen on our ride( except yours, of course ) ...in fact we saw almost no other Bikes at all. Why? It was flooding everywhere else and thus noone but us dared to ride to Petchabun and had a great ride on quite empty roads.

mbox

[dave_boo]

Dave.. Thats kinda of the problem.. as far as we know Honda have NOT actually sorted out any finance or 1st class insurance... on the PCX the finance WAS 0.89% per MONTH. that was the lowest anD organized through AEON..

Hopefully some of the bigger dealers..Mityont or similar will organize proper finance. AND 1st class insurance.

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of financing in Thailand; for all I know Kawasaki is the only company financing their bikes; perhaps the only on financing any vehicles. So I could be very wrong!

Hi Dave, you are right - there were not any ninja's seen on our ride( except yours, of course ) ...in fact we saw almost no other Bikes at all. Why? It was flooding everywhere else and thus noone but us dared to ride to Petchabun and had a great ride on quite empty roads.

mbox

It was a great ride, well with the exception of me ending up smelling like a wet dog, wasn't it?

We did see one or two CBR 150s didn't we? And there was that wee KLX/DTRACKER. I also so 3 ER-6Ns after our paths left each other...

[appropriate]

I must be calling the wrong dealers in BKK...

Who's got the 250 in the shop for a cash buyer

Working out in Nakhon Nayok 4 days a week I don't have much time to scout around BKK...

Go on. Throw me a bone... any names/numbers...

Saphan Kwai called me this afternoon. I was first on their list for a call. I knew the price already, 110k with no tax/ins/reg. Available to buy and walk out. I chose instead to buy from a shop this morning at 110k for everything, but have to wait until next week for delivery.

I would guess that it is gone or booked by now. A phone call first thing tmro morning might make it yours. - 086 3410483

[appropriate]

Appropriate - when you say 155k+ for the Ninja "all in", I assume you're including first class insurance in that as the price is still around 147k. Did you get full insurance included in the 110k you paid for the Honda?

My total for tax/ins/reg was 8,000. Hence my estimate price of the ninja. the plus sign is there as my friend just bought a D-Tracker 250 and his insurance was 8,000+, then an additional 2 or so thousand reg and tax.

Edited December 17, 2010 by appropriate

[appropriate]

A shop in Samut Prakan also has them for 102,000 without tax/ins/reg.

Don't know about immediate availablity. Will probably have to wait for delivery next week.

Tel: 02-7383553-4.

02-7383931

Edited December 17, 2010 by appropriate

[thaicbr]

Appropriate - when you say 155k+ for the Ninja "all in", I assume you're including first class insurance in that as the price is still around 147k. Did you get full insurance included in the 110k you paid for the Honda?

Yes.

Who is the the 1st class insurance with.. and how much is it???

[mbox]

Hi Dave, you are right - there were not any ninja's seen on our ride( except yours, of course ) ...in fact we saw almost no other Bikes at all. Why? It was flooding everywhere else and thus noone but us dared to ride to Petchabun and had a great ride on quite empty roads.

mbox

It was a great ride, well with the exception of me ending up smelling like a wet dog, wasn't it?

We did see one or two CBR 150s didn't we? And there was that wee KLX/DTRACKER. I also so 3 ER-6Ns after our paths left each other...

1st day with the wet ending was great - it made our bikes look like we just arrived from a long round-trip back to Bangladesh

Well, the biggest group of Bikers i saw with Marco (on 3rd day) near the Roadhouse Cafe "Route 12" and that was about 10 harleys ... but really not much else around besides of the random appearances of bikes you mentioned.

mbox

[appropriate]

Appropriate - when you say 155k+ for the Ninja "all in", I assume you're including first class insurance in that as the price is still around 147k. Did you get full insurance included in the 110k you paid for the Honda?

Yes.

Who is the the 1st class insurance with.. and how much is it???

Sorry, I didn't get the details as I was running for work, the missus was left to do everything. Agreed the price of 102,000, with the tax/ins/reg at 8,000. I then had to leave and the missus took over. Am not 100% sure on the insurance. Will post details as soon as I have them.

Edited December 17, 2010 by appropriate

[JimsKnight]

Jim

Did you even read the thread before throwing out your (uneducated,as in nobody knows) opinion?

Odds are that it will give the Ninja 250 a good run for the money.

And that's the point. It's a lot cheaper. And perhaps just about as quick.

The engine is newly-designed for this bike. Not a bored-out 150.

Well Mr self-proclaimed fan boy, a lot of people in the Kawasaki side of biking would disagree with you.

Until you or I ride a CBR 250 this is one thread that's got legs and will continue to run.

Newly designed doesn't necessarily mean better either...

[Tiffer]

A shop in Samut Prakan also has them for 102,000 without tax/ins/reg.

Don't know about immediate availablity. Will probably have to wait for delivery next week.

Tel: 02-7383553-4.

02-7383931

@appropiate

Nice bone. Will make a couple of extra calls tomorrow.

I should have given the entire list of dealers to my students as a research project 555!

Next time

Many thanks!

[BigBikeBKK]

And I'm not dissing the Ninja 250 owners. I feel badly for them that Kawasaki sold them an over-priced bike.

And that will cost them money when they resell. They paid almost Bt.50k more than the Honda, and if they want to resell, they will have to under-price the Honda. So maybe a loss of Bt.70K for a 2 year-old bike. Ouch! That's almost 50%.

The above figures are based on the real selling price of the Honda (not present early-purchaser gouging) and the current price of the 250 Ninja (Bt.149K)

You keep saying the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is overpriced. What nonsense. I think it's cheap as chips.

You needn't pity the Ninja 250R owners. They paid more and got a better bike. Not that there's anything WRONG with the new Honda CBR250. But there's some truth to the old saying "You get what you pay for".

And please get your facts straight. For 2010 the Ninja 250R sells for 147.5k Baht, not 149k. Unlike Honda Ape with their "recommended retail pricing" which means you have no idea what your dealership might charge, with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships.

Ride On!

Tony

[CMX]

"...with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships." BigBikeBKK

Absolutely true, in part. The price is fixed. However, there is no assurance that when a corporation sets a fixed price that the dealer is not getting a greater percentage. It is free of the difficulties of negotiation, but we may just as easily be missing the chance for a better price. As a general thing, I dislike it when manufacturers set the price and enforce it - it almost ensures middle-man inefficiencies and higher costs. ( Argument on the other side is that dealers can maintain quality service, but only their profit is assured.)

-

In the U.S., the suggested retail price of $4,000 means it costs less there by a good margin, about $800US. There, one sometimes sees dealers selling off models at end-of-model-year at a lower price yet.

We'll know more about the relative merits of the two bikes in a while, but I too admire the marketing genius of Honda; marketing, it appears, is driving design. This is a beginner bike to appeal better than anything in the field to youngsters transitioning up from scooters and motorbikes. Genius at work.

Edited December 17, 2010 by CMX