I love Helen Thomas.

She does NOT deserve to be defined by that one ugly remark.

What a career!

There is something Shakespearean in the fact that a woman who worked so singularly, so aggressively, and for so long in a field — serious news reporting — that was inhospitable to women when she entered it (in 1943) and who was, among many other firsts, the first female president of the White House Press Association, would be so near-exclusively defined, by the most important venue in her profession, by an ugly utterance (not meant for public consumption but recorded and disseminated), made at the very end of her distinguished career. All that good work, all that hard work, all that barrier-breaking — for all those decades — and, in the end, to be reduced to this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2013/07/21/helen-thomas-did-so-much-right-but-is-tombstoned-for-one-wrong/

It was not just the remark that was ugly, but that is what I think of immediately when her name comes up.

It was not just the remark that was ugly, but that is what I think of immediately when her name comes up.

Yeah I know and that's a real shame.

She was very old at the time.

She was a historic figure.

Whether you agree with her overall political slant or not, which I know you don't, she showed great character, intelligence, and persistence in her long career.

To add another thing.

Again, I know what she said and it was horrible, but I really really don't think Helen Thomas was actually an anti-semite.

I have a very minor personal connection to her through the very Jewy father of a close boyhood friend, which doesn't prove anything, but makes this feeling about her more real to me.

I think overall she was an extremely lovable character and I'm happy she had a good long life.

Is she pretty?

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Helen Thomas spoke out what others are thinking. that the part "They could go home … Poland. Germany. And America. And everywhere else." was silly goes without saying. but as JT mentioned one should discount age 89 and i add she was an American born "Ayrab".

Helen Thomas spoke out what others are thinking. that the part "They could go home … Poland. Germany. And America. And everywhere else." was silly goes without saying. but as JT mentioned one should discount age 89 and i add she was an American born "Ayrab".

I think its better not to focus on the ugly remark.

A few seconds compared to decades of groundbreaking work.

She was very old at a party not making a public statement, and everyone says stupid things in their life.

Telling Israeli Jews they should go back to Poland and Germany is one the most offensive things you can say to them.

It hits an emotional nerve about the holocaust. It hits deeper than the surface words.

In reality Germany is an OK place for modern Jews but certainly couldn't absorb very much of Israel and Poland remains a massively anti-semitic country, arguably historically the people were worse than Germans in that and there is no way Poland would be interested in absorbing masses of Jewish refugees.

Maybe deep in her heart she actually felt that all her life but I still don't think she hated Jews or meant to offend Jews in quite the way that statement did.

Being of Lebanese descent it's not exactly surprising that she was anti-Zionist but being anti-Zionist doesn't necessarily mean anti-semitic. Sometimes its a cover and they mix of course.

I think Arab Americans and Jewish Americans have a good bit in common within the American context, forgetting the international context. I know it's a hilarious stereotype to say this but what the heck this is the Bedlam area ... my best friend growing up was Palestinian.

The 'ugly remark' was made without thinking.

This woman must have been holding these views inside her all her life and then, in an unguarded moment, said what she really believed.

As others have pointed out, she was descended from Lebanese stock and had probably a different view on events in that area because of her antecedents. No problem - I've had many years working in the Middle East and have learnt to show interest in what people are saying, without actually vomiting over them or hitting them. And I never argue with people whose thinking cannot be changed, only reinforced.

Bigots, anti-semites, racists, right-/left-wing extremists, animal rights fanatics all have to be listened to, or they will just intensify their views and may step over the line into physical action. Listen to them, then go and have a quiet drink, listen to Brahms, relax and forget the idiots.

I don't think people should be blamed for their opinions, or their thoughts, nor for letting them slip in unguarded moments. People should be judged by their deeds, not their thoughts, nor their honesty.

SC

I don't think people should be blamed for their opinions, or their thoughts, nor for letting them slip in unguarded moments. People should be judged by their deeds, not their thoughts, nor their honesty.

SC

Well I don't completely agree.

If Helen Thomas had made a career of promoting hateful messages such as the Jews should go "home" to Poland, I would hate her guts.

But she did nothing of the kind.

There is no public record of her even saying anything remotely like that until the incident at the party.

Anyway, not only don't I hate her guts, I feel mournful about her loss and wish she could have lived several more decades doing her amazing journalism work.

I don't think people should be blamed for their opinions, or their thoughts, nor for letting them slip in unguarded moments. People should be judged by their deeds, not their thoughts, nor their honesty.

SC

Well I don't completely agree.

If Helen Thomas had made a career of promoting hateful messages such as the Jews should go "home" to Poland, I would hate her guts.

But she did nothing of the kind.

There is no public record of her even saying anything remotely like that until the incident at the party.

Why would she have expressed such opinions, regardless of how deeply felt they were? those opinions were nothing to do with her job,and therefore not something for public pronouncement. Did she ever express on pubic record opinions about football, cuisine, or musical fashion?

If she had made a point of such opinions - as for example, Sean Connery and Rod Stewart have done on their views on Scottish nationalism, then I can imagine she might have been villified by those who felt otherwise. But she did not. She accidentally let slip that she had her own personal viewpoint, and her achievements and her career should be held in no less regard because she may have had privately-held opinions which differ from our own, regardless of whether those opinions accidentally become known to us or not. She was not preaching.

SC

Anyway, I accepted her apology.

It's not that there is anything wrong with expressing a political view of anti-Zionism but the Jews back to Poland where they were subject to genocide and where the people are still virulent Jew haters thing would normally be seen as hate speech, and is totally unacceptable.

I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians. They do not reflect my heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance. May that day come soon.

Anyway, I accepted her apology.

It's not that there is anything wrong with expressing a political view of anti-Zionism but the Jews back to Poland where they were subject to genocide and where the people are still virulent Jew haters thing would normally be seen as hate speech, and is totally unacceptable.

I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians. They do not reflect my heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance. May that day come soon.

Wed all have our own opinions, and some of us are not allowed to express them. I am not sure that that is a good thing. I have no objection to people judging my opinions, but I would rather that they sought to argue otherwise than condemn me for opinions on which we differ.

To be clear: This is hypothetical, and I accept and do not condemn the presentation of your argument above; but I worry that when we suppress the expression of racist or anti-semite or homophobic or chauvinistic or nationalistic opinion, then we enforce it, and by failing to understand it, we expose ourselves to sub-cultural insurrection.

SC

What's actually happening now is that there is a substantive movement within Israel and beyond that are not interested in the slightest about the Human Rights of others.

These people are being indulged by pathetic US leadership and like anyone else that has no boundaries, they are pushing things right over the edge. To be brutally honest, I don't even want to refer to them as Jewish, as that is a mere mask which they wear while they pour out bile, bitterness and hatred to all around.

I have an 84 year old Jewish friend who is horrified by what he sees in Israel. His wife lives there and he can't stand the place, so he goes to visit her and returns to Scotland as soon as he can.

The biggest disappointment in his life though is that his daughter is ultra right wing, when she visits him in Scotland the sparks fly as she fires off on another rant as he counsels reconciliation. It's interesting to watch them go at it.

He says that there will never be peace in the Middle East until his people learn to share, and he is deeply dismayed that his own daughter represents the wing that will never share anything.

Incidentally, my Jewish pals in Germany look at Israel with contempt. They are not alone within the worldwide Jewish community, there are plenty of people within the community that regard the situation promulgated in that country as a disgrace.

Helen Thomas was unwise in her choice of words, but the spirit of what she said would get surprising support within the Jewish community. There are plenty that want to see and end to Israel, and plenty more that wish the country had never been founded at all.

...

Helen Thomas was unwise in her choice of words, but the spirit of what she said would get surprising support within the Jewish community. There are plenty that want to see and end to Israel, and plenty more that wish the country had never been founded at all.

The vast majority of Jews in the world, over 90 percent, are PRO ZIONIST. That doesn't mean supporting right wing governments of Israel specifically, it just means support for the continued existence of Israel as a JEWISH state. When Bush was my president, I hated Bush but still loved my country. Get the distinction?

There are less than 1 in 100,000 Jews that wouldn't be disgusted by the go back to Poland remark as it directly links to the pain of the holocaust. I forgive her because it was one really stupid thing she said at a party when she was very old balanced by an amazing life and career but the comment on the face of it remains truly hateful.

It should also be noted that the vast majority of global Jews and indeed a smaller majority of Israeli Jews support a two state solution. Of course, that's not easy and it takes two to tango. I agree the right wing politics in Israel is a problem but so is the terror government of Gaza.

I do understand that anti-semitism in Europe is on the rise. That explains why more and more French Jews are going to Israel.

You have a link to prove that statistic?

Anyway your distinction is irrelevant. Many people would be amazed at the idea that there are millions of Jews opposed to the state of Israel, and you know that to be true as well as I do.

I was talking to young Jewish people in Vientiane last week ( 2 males, 2 females ) that have just finished their military service. They're not happy, they can see they are on the wrong road. One of them mentioned there was too much conflict brewing among the Jewish community and that the hatred level between rival sects was getting dangerous.

You have a link to prove that statistic?

Anyway your distinction is irrelevant. Many people would be amazed at the idea that there are millions of Jews opposed to the state of Israel, and you know that to be true as well as I do.

I was talking to young Jewish people in Vientiane last week ( 2 males, 2 females ) that have just finished their military service. They're not happy, they can see they are on the wrong road. One of them mentioned there was too much conflict brewing among the Jewish community and that the hatred level between rival sects was getting dangerous.

There ALWAYS have been some anti-Zionist Jews and of course in the earlier historical phase of the movement the vast majority of Jews were not Zionist. DUH. You are wrong though about millions. Do you even know how few Jews there are in the world thanks to ... places like Poland?

If not, now you do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

If you meant opposed to some government policies of Israel, you would be correct. OBVIOUSLY. Is that what you meant? If so, please be more precise with your statements.

Global Jewry remains solidly in favor of the continued existence of the state homeland of the Jewish people.

Yes, many Israelis feel stressed but actually the main political issue these days in Israel is about domestic economic policies and if you don't believe that, read the Israeli press regularly, which being a Jew and a supporter of Israel, I do.

I can't be bothered to find a global Jewish survey right now (I have posted such in the past) but as the USA has almost as many Jews as Israel (or MORE depending on how you count Jews) and besides the USA and Israel there aren't all that many other Jews in the world, I think this makes my point quite well:

94% say that if Jewish state "no longer existed tomorrow," it would be a "tragedy."

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/US-Jews-strongly-support-Israel-new-poll-shows

Also, yes I'm a liberal American Jew but I have total compassion for Israeli Jews who are not so liberal. They have to live constantly with threats to their existence not to mention the over the top hostility of Euro types like yourself.

Explain this comment Jingthing........

"not to mention the over the top hostility of Euro types like yourself."

Explain this comment Jingthing........

"not to mention the over the top hostility of Euro types like yourself."

I found your original post on this thread radically anti-Israel's existence. Typical of so many Euro types today. It is the fashion. Obsession about the wrongs of Israel, which some are real, while conveniently ignoring the wrongs of any other country, except of course the USA in relation to its support of .... Israel. I think you played a crafty game also of putting words in the mouths of Jews which were obviously what you think and making the implication that those radical anti-Israel's existence views represent a huge portion of world Jews. Which they do not without any doubt. Millions? No way. A SMALL percentage ... period.

if for some reason I have read your views incorrectly, and you are supportive of the existence of the Jewish state of Israel, perhaps SAY SO and correct the impression you give.

It is your perfect right to hope for Israel's end, to agree with Helen Thomas's hate speech about Jews back to Poland, to wish Israel was never created. Israelis and Jews know we have enemies, always have, always will. But some clarity on what your position is would be appreciated instead of seeking COVER behind some minority RADICAL anti-Israel's existence Jews.

A link about Europe. Not news really:

Over half of Europeans view Israel as “the greatest threat to world peace

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4441467&ct=11668963#.UfRElKwjRbQ

I don't think people should be blamed for their opinions, or their thoughts, nor for letting them slip in unguarded moments. People should be judged by their deeds, not their thoughts, nor their honesty.

SC

Well I don't completely agree.

If Helen Thomas had made a career of promoting hateful messages such as the Jews should go "home" to Poland, I would hate her guts.

But she did nothing of the kind.

There is no public record of her even saying anything remotely like that until the incident at the party.

Anyway, not only don't I hate her guts, I feel mournful about her loss and wish she could have lived several more decades doing her amazing journalism work.

You are surprisingly forgiving of someone who appears to have committed the cardinal error of staying on the job way past their sell-by date. Thomas became increasingly outspoken and combative to little effect apart from sullying her prior reputation.

I would be intrigued to hear your POV of her Oct 2010 comment:

"I hit the third rail. You cannot criticize Israel in this country and survive," Thomas told reporter Scott Spears of WMRN-AM radio.

What's actually happening now is that there is a substantive movement within Israel and beyond that are not interested in the slightest about the Human Rights of others.

Human rights? Jews have always been in Israel. They legally bought the land that they were living on before the Arabs started attacking them with the intention of wiping them out. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities and the Palestinian Arabs refused offers to start their own country - they had never had one before - in which they would rule the Jews, but the Jews would have limited autonomy. The ARABS said no. In fact, no matter what they have been offered, the Arabs have refused to make peace over and over again while the Jews have accepted numerous treaties.

Your concerns are very misplaced The ARABS are the ones who are not interested in the slightest about the human rights of others and they have proved it time after time..

I would be intrigued to hear your POV of her Oct 2010 comment:

"I hit the third rail. You cannot criticize Israel in this country and survive," Thomas told reporter Scott Spears of WMRN-AM radio.

You can criticize Israel in the US and survive. People do it all the time. What you can not do is propose that an entire, successful country dismantle itself and that the people who have lived there all their lives "return" to countries that do not want them and that slaughtered millions of their ancestors. That absurd suggestion is what ended Helen Thomas's career.

What's actually happening now is that there is a substantive movement within Israel and beyond that are not interested in the slightest about the Human Rights of others.

Human rights? Jews have always been in Israel. They legally bought the land that they were living on before the Arabs started attacking them with the intention of wiping them out. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities and the Palestinian Arabs refused offers to start their own country - they had never had one before - in which they would rule the Jews, but the Jews would have limited autonomy. The ARABS said no. In fact, no matter what they have been offered, the Arabs have refused to make peace over and over again while the Jews have accepted numerous treaties.

Your concerns are very misplaced The ARABS are the ones who are not interested in the slightest about the human rights of others and they have proved it time after time..

I would also refer to what is currently going on in Syria and juxtapose that with Israel a Country where the Arab minority gets voting rights, freedom of worship etc. Israeli hospitals have even treated Syrians hurt in the current conflict, not to mention giving medical aid to people in the West Bank. The current obsession with Israel among the European Lib-Left is based on ignorance masking prejudice and driven by domestic political concerns which results in the MSM spewing out misinformation to influence the masses.

Explain this comment Jingthing........

"not to mention the over the top hostility of Euro types like yourself."

I found your original post on this thread radically anti-Israel's existence. Typical of so many Euro types today. It is the fashion. Obsession about the wrongs of Israel, which some are real, while conveniently ignoring the wrongs of any other country, except of course the USA in relation to its support of .... Israel. I think you played a crafty game also of putting words in the mouths of Jews which were obviously what you think and making the implication that those radical anti-Israel's existence views represent a huge portion of world Jews. Which they do not without any doubt. Millions? No way. A SMALL percentage ... period.

if for some reason I have read your views incorrectly, and you are supportive of the existence of the Jewish state of Israel, perhaps SAY SO and correct the impression you give.

It is your perfect right to hope for Israel's end, to agree with Helen Thomas's hate speech about Jews back to Poland, to wish Israel was never created. Israelis and Jews know we have enemies, always have, always will. But some clarity on what your position is would be appreciated instead of seeking COVER behind some minority RADICAL anti-Israel's existence Jews.

A link about Europe. Not news really:

Over half of Europeans view Israel as “the greatest threat to world peace

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4441467&ct=11668963#.UfRElKwjRbQ

That's a load of crap, you've just tried to shut down the debate by playing an anti-semite card against me. That's typical of people that don't have an answer `to a valid point.

You don't like the idea that there are millions of Jews who are anti the state of Israel, and you know that's true. You also don't like the idea that there are millions of Jews who are contemptuous of the way many Jewish settlers and politicians run rough shod over the human rights of others.

You would prefer than no one should know that there is this division among the Jewish community.

You are surprisingly forgiving of someone who appears to have committed the cardinal error of staying on the job way past their sell-by date. Thomas became increasingly outspoken and combative to little effect apart from sullying her prior reputation.

I would be intrigued to hear your POV of her Oct 2010 comment:

"I hit the third rail. You cannot criticize Israel in this country and survive," Thomas told reporter Scott Spears of WMRN-AM radio.

I have been criticizing Israel for years. I still support the existence of Israel. Get the difference? I hated Bush as did Thomas but she didn't want America not to exist or all the non-indigenous Americans to go back where they came from. Just because I am not as radically anti-Israel as some doesn't mean I haven't been critical of the Israeli government.

Thomas did not just criticize Israel with comments. She suggested Jews go back to Germany and Poland. She suggested that Israel should no longer exist. It is true in the USA you can't have much of a career espousing those kinds of radical anti-Israel views. But you can criticize specific Israeli government policies.

I would be intrigued to hear your POV of her Oct 2010 comment:

"I hit the third rail. You cannot criticize Israel in this country and survive," Thomas told reporter Scott Spears of WMRN-AM radio.

You can criticize Israel in the US and survive. People do it all the time. What you can not do is propose that an entire, successful country dismantle itself and that the people who have lived there all their lives "return" to countries that do not want them and that slaughtered millions of their ancestors. That absurd suggestion is what ended Helen Thomas's career.

She was way past retirement age anyway.

What's actually happening now is that there is a substantive movement within Israel and beyond that are not interested in the slightest about the Human Rights of others.

Human rights? Jews have always been in Israel. They legally bought the land that they were living on before the Arabs started attacking them with the intention of wiping them out. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities and the Palestinian Arabs refused offers to start their own country - they had never had one before - in which they would rule the Jews, but the Jews would have limited autonomy. The ARABS said no. In fact, no matter what they have been offered, the Arabs have refused to make peace over and over again while the Jews have accepted numerous treaties.

Your concerns are very misplaced The ARABS are the ones who are not interested in the slightest about the human rights of others and they have proved it time after time..

My concerns are not misplaced, the situation in Israel is a human rights catastrophe. There are many within the Jewish community that agree with that.

There are empire builders and zealots on both sides, and it's these people who are the cause of the problem. For all the publicity about the clashes, it is a statement of fact that millions of Jews and Arabs get along together and live with each other in peace and friendship on a daily basis.

These people despair when militant Jews start another campaign of bullying and intimidation on the settlements, just as they despair as another round of rockets lands on the country from Arab terrorists.

There is no excuse for state sponsored human rights abuses, and that's what we see daily in Israel.

That's a load of crap, you've just tried to shut down the debate by playing an anti-semite card against me. That's typical of people that don't have an answer `to a valid point.

You don't like the idea that there are millions of Jews who are anti the state of Israel, and you know that's true. You also don't like the idea that there are millions of Jews who are contemptuous of the way many Jewish settlers and politicians run rough shod over the human rights of others.

You would prefer than no one should know that there is this division among the Jewish community.

None of that is true.

I'm not going to dignify your anti-semite comment. I didn't call you an anti-semite. How would I know whether you are or aren't?

There are NOT millions of Jews who are against the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. I provided strong supporting evidence for you, and you respond with a shrill personal attack. All you've got is your ridiculous, I talked to a few Jewish "friends" story. You have no statistics to support your assertion and you won't find any because they do not exist, so instead, go personal. That's the ticket.

AGAIN, yes, I would say the MAJORITY of Jews in the world have some or major ISSUES with specific policies of the Israeli government, including Israelis. (Me too.) That is NORMAL for most any country.

No, you are wrong again. I have no problem with the world knowing there is debate among Jews about Israeli policies. Yes there are deep divisions within Israel. Sounds familiar to Americans, to Thais, and so many other nations. Why shouldn't the democracy of Israel have internal divisions? Does that mean all those countries shouldn't exist? What I do have a problem with is an agenda to promote a bald faced and totally unsupportable LIE that a huge percentage ("millions") of Jews in the world are against the very existence of Israel.

If you're going to talk about this subject, please stick to the subject area rather the personality games that are your specialty.

You don't like the idea that there are millions of Jews who are anti the state of Israel

Maybe he just thinks that it is a crock of sh*te. As someone else said:

You have a link to prove that statistic?