Remember that the first people to return to Jerusalem in (fairly) modern times were the religious zealots (small 'z'). They had no intention of founding a state, or forming any sort of government. From the seventeenth century onwards there have been religious Jews in the city studying and waiting for the coming of the Messiah.

Zionism and the wish to found a state on the land God gave to the Jews only came into bloom at the end of the nineteenth century. Remarkably it bore fruit within ony a few decades, far less time than it took most current European nations to etablish themselves in their present format.

I quite agree that the Haridim are classic fundamentalists focused on revelation rather than interpretation of the word of god, and that they come in almost 57 different varieties.

What is of concern is the demographic angle. While at the moment nothing more than a vocal minority, that status is likely to change over the next few decades as their numbers grow exponentially. That could have a serious political, social and strategic impact on Israel and Jewry in general.

My guess is that education and mixing with other Jews will result in a melting pot which will take care of the fanatics.

I quite agree that the Haridim are classic fundamentalists focused on revelation rather than interpretation of the word of god, and that they come in almost 57 different varieties.

What is of concern is the demographic angle. While at the moment nothing more than a vocal minority, that status is likely to change over the next few decades as their numbers grow exponentially. That could have a serious political, social and strategic impact on Israel and Jewry in general.

My guess is that education and mixing with other Jews will result in a melting pot which will take care of the fanatics.

Sounds like what happens to most fanatics/fundamentalists/extremists. Basically they grow up!

Why would they grow out of a belief that Israel was a gift from God? and that they should live in peace in other communities until God called them back?

It seems to be an extremely benign belief to me.

If Israelis democratically decide to give up on the Israeli state, I would support their decision.

They.

Won't.

Yes, most global Jews see Israel as the homeland for all Jewish people, and would indeed see it's end as tragic for all Jewish people, ultimately those on the front lines (literally) in Israel are the ones who are going to have to decide about Israel's future.

Speaking of course as a SECULAR pro-Zionist.

I can't argue with that.

You seem to be selective in your interpretation UG. It is not fanatical to believe that the scriptures have not been fulfilled.

Anyone believing any religious texts LITERALLY is fanatical.

or plain dumb!

i find it ironic that America, as awash with anti-muslim sentiment as it is, could take such umbrage at what is perceived to be an anti-semetic remark.

I am by no mans anti semitic, but i have no patience or fondness for israel as a country. Its citizens i take on a case by case basis.

America supports Israel by a vast majority and the "anti-Muslim sentment" is mostly against radical Muslim terrorists. Most Americans have nothing against truly moderate Muslims.

Helen Thomas remark that a whole country pack up and move to a bunch of countries that most of them have never seen was just plain stupid. That was what Americans "took umbrage" at.