Thai-Danish 7-year-old to be deported from Denmark

[webfact]

Thai-Danish 7-year-old to be deported from Denmark
BY SINE NEUCHS THOMSEN

BANGKOK: -- A seven-year-old girl, Im Nielsen, and her mother, Suthida Nielsen, have been ordered by Hjørring District Court to leave Denmark to move back to their native Thailand, TV2 Nord reports via The Copenhagen Post.

The court decided last week to uphold the Immigration Service’s decision for the mother-daughter duo to leave Denmark. The family maintains that their ties to Denmark are greater than those to Thailand, and brought their case before the court. Im has lived in Denmark for approximately half her life, does not speak Thai, and is fully integrated into Danish society. She is currently in first grade at Aabybro Skole.

The case, which was first heard in court on September 20, is the result of a joint decision by the Immigration Service (Udlændingestyrelsen) and the immigration appeals council, Udlændingenævnet, that the pair were no longer permitted to live in Denmark after Im’s stepfather (Suthida’s husband) died of cancer last year. Udlændingestyrelsen thus ruled that the Nielsens no longer had a valid tie to Denmark. The Hjørring judge postponed a decision for three weeks so that all facts could be considered.

“One could very well fear that when two administrative authorities have reached an agreement, the judge will simply follow suit,” Jens H Bech, the Nielsen family’s lawyer, told TV2 Nord. “So it is reassuring that he tabled it and really considered the matter for three weeks. I feel very comfortable with that.”

Following the recent court ruling, the Nielsen family has yet to decide whether or not they will appeal against the decision to the Western High Court.

Different grounds, same story
Though the grounds for Udlændingestyrelsen’s decisions may vary, this is hardly the first time that the deportation of a child has made news.

In a high-profile 2011 case, the Justice Ministry denied the family reunification appeal of 13-year-old Thai boy Sirapat Kamminsen. The boy was forced to leave Denmark, leaving behind his mother, step-father and half-brother. Udlændingestyrelsen determined that he was not sufficiently capable of integrating and he was sent to Thailand despite having no close relatives there who could care for him.

In another 2011 case, 8-year-old Ripa faced deportation on the basis of Udlændingestyrelsen’s claims that she was incapable of integration. Despite her parents’ urgent pleas and letters of support from her teachers, Udlændingestyrelsen decided that Ripa was incapable of integrating and therefore could not stay with her family in Denmark.

The government relaxed family reunification laws last year and, as a result, fewer young children have had their family reunification applications turned down based on their perceived ability to integrate. In 2010, 96 under-12s had their applications denied for this reason, but in May the Justice Ministry reported that only six under-12s have had their applications turned down in a little under a year.

Source: http://www.cphpost.dk/immigration-amp-denmark/7-year-old-be-deported

Source: http://scandasia.com/thai-danish-7-year-old-deported-denmark/

-- ScanAsia 2013-10-17

[robblok]

Technically they are right, but come on I can just hear the foreigners here complaining if an elderly farang is deported because his wife dies and now he needs to have 800k in the bank.

Sometimes reason should speak, those two had ties in Denmark and it is already hard that their father / husband has died and now they are deported too after having lived there for so long. I think deaths like this should be a special case.

[spacemand]

The Danish system is infamous for doing this.

If the step dad hadn't died they would still have been able to live in Denmark. I don't know their financial situation but for me as a Danish citizen I think Denmark should allow them to stay even if it means they are on welfare, they came to Denmark with the best of intentions and not to benefit from the Danish welfare system they were struck by tragedy and now are punished even more by being send out of the country.

There are thousands of people coming to Denmark to exploit the Danish welfare system and they are allowed to do so and should be send home but these two people should be allowed to stay I am repulsed by who we are allowing to stay and who we send out of the country.

This story makes me be ashamed to be a Danish citizen.

[ToddWeston]

Something is rotten in the State of Denmark - sorry couldn't resist.

[harrry]

If the child was a Danish citizen as the child of a Danish Father I fail to see how he could be deported. the mother could but she could claim she had a tie in Denmark (the child). If not a Danish citizen ( a stepchild) that changes it.

[Neeranam]

Good to see European countries making it hard for Thais as the Thais sure make it hard for us to gain citizenship or Permanent Residency. Seems unfair though to pick on the children.

[chooka]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

[soi41]

Always difficult, when children are involved!

But the headline should have read : Thai woman and her Thai daughter to be deported!

Think the Danish government got tired of people abusing the welfaresystem!

[robblok]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

I guess that they have to renew the visa once in a while, the father Danish citisin is no longer there so no reason to stay (at leas that is what the bureaucrats think). Its a real pity as they came here to build a life and the husband died.. do they need any more grief ?

As for the remark good to see that other countries make it hard on Thais as its hard on us. Fair point but i rather have it that its easier to stay here then to make it hard for everyone. I do have the feeling like that too sometimes that its much easier the other way around. I know it as I had a Thai wife back in the Netherlands. It was much easier and much more permanent with all rights like land and such. Not half half like here.

[Hedghog]

Good on the Danes.

Separate the wheat from the chaff.

[transam]

Difficult one but perhaps Denmark understands that a Danish national will be chucked out of LOS in the same circumstances.

[spacemand]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

Nothing from the story says she used her husband to get a visa.

She married a Danish citizen lived in Denmark for 3+ years and I know how hard it is just to bring your spouse and (their) children to Denmark the requirements are very strict.

This is the Danish immigration rules and she could have a full time job and being a model citizen and still be deported, if you think Thai visa rules are crazy take a look at the Danish rules.

If you are a non-EU citizen its a lot easier to get a visa and stay long term in Thailand than it is to stay long term in Denmark.

I am married to a Thai so I am here on a Non-O easy to get and easy to renew, I looked into bringing the Mrs and the kids to DK but gave up I couldn't for fill the requirements despite me working full time and having a full time job offer for the Mrs in DK.

Whine all you want about Thai visa rules but we have it easy compared to Thais in EU.

[harrry]

Difficult one but perhaps Denmark understands that a Danish national will be chucked out of LOS in the same circumstances.

But if the child is Thai citizen the child will not be made to leave.

In Thailand the Danish person would then be able to apply for a visa supporting a thai child.

[krisb]

Shame on Denmark for this treatment.

I bet if crown princess Mary's husband died she wouldn't be sent back to Tasmania with the kids.

Sent from my LG-E612 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[robblok]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

Nothing from the story says she used her husband to get a visa.

She married a Danish citizen lived in Denmark for 3+ years and I know how hard it is just to bring your spouse and (their) children to Denmark the requirements are very strict.

This is the Danish immigration rules and she could have a full time job and being a model citizen and still be deported, if you think Thai visa rules are crazy take a look at the Danish rules.

If you are a non-EU citizen its a lot easier to get a visa and stay long term in Thailand than it is to stay long term in Denmark.

I am married to a Thai so I am here on a Non-O easy to get and easy to renew, I looked into bringing the Mrs and the kids to DK but gave up I couldn't for fill the requirements despite me working full time and having a full time job offer for the Mrs in DK.

Whine all you want about Thai visa rules but we have it easy compared to Thais in EU.

I don't agree. I have had a Thai wife back in the Netherlands it was ok to do AND she could own land and work.

Now compare that with Thailand and your rights if your married to a Thai lady.

The initial process might be a bit harder but once your in you have far less hoops to jump then here in Thailand. No 90 day reporting, not going there every year and bringing the same pictures and papers.

I do agree its easier to come in here but its with far less rights and more different hoops.

But anyway what Denmark is doing is bad, I would react the same if a foreigner got deported form Thailand because his wife died. Compassion is what is missing.

[spacemand]

Denmark is a 1st world country, Thailand is a 3rd world country there is a big difference being deported from Thailand to Denmark and the other way around.

If you are a women married to a Thai male and acquired the proper visas you might not end up being deported or you could stay or tourist visas or how many others here stay.

This woman and child have ZERO chance of staying in Denmark, no tourist visa, no ED visa or anything, they can have someone put up a million USD as a guarantee and they would still not be able to stay.

I hope this case get tracking in the mainstream news in Denmark and they can stay this is what usually happens and the only way to have people stay as they rightfully deserve they did NOTHING wrong they were struck by tragedy and now they are punished for that.

[transam]

Difficult one but perhaps Denmark understands that a Danish national will be chucked out of LOS in the same circumstances.

But if the child is Thai citizen the child will not be made to leave.

In Thailand the Danish person would then be able to apply for a visa supporting a thai child.

My UK chum could not get an O visa to visit his daughter in LOS after his divorce even though he was supporting her. I no nothing about this visa stuff but that is what he was told.

[arminbkk]

How many times have I not read on this forum how posters say that Thailand needs more "law enforcement" and

how laws should be followed more strictly, or how western countries

should adopt "same tough attitude toward immigration" as Thailand does, because western countries are flooded with

'useless' immigrants. Current thread on this is the "Farang !" thread.

For example, Thailand has the visa rule that if you are on a non imm O visa on the basis of marriage,

should your spouse die, your visa becomes invalid and you have x number of days to leave.

Now we see Denmark doing just that (i.e. enforcing tough immigration laws), and many posters disagree.

For the record, I disagree too. But there is a subjective (or selective) approach to an objective law. An approach not uncommon to Thailand.

Of course every country has that problem with laws in a case where a law is applied but it still seems unfair.

Then people want exceptions to be made, and then, and then......

[HeavyDrinker]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

It is more of a shame people have to jump to wild surmises, yet the forum would be less interesting if people didn't I suppose...

[transam]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

It is more of a shame people have to jump to wild surmises, yet the forum would be less interesting if people didn't I suppose...

I could tell you a true story why some (me) think like that.

[siampolee]

Might do well to remind the Danish immigration authorities that they welcomed Chalerm Yoobumrung when he was on the run and a (rich) fugitive from corruption charges as did the Sweden's immigration authorities.

No qualms concerning a corrupt politician as opposed to a 7 year old child who it seems is far more Danish in her outlook on life than a rich politician.

There's no political mileage in a 7 year old girl and her mum is there unlike a rich corrupt politician fleeing justice ?

Courtesy of Wikipedia

Chalerm won several consecutive MP election bids, with the exception of the first election of 1992. He served as Minister for Office of the Prime Minister under Chatichai Choonhavan, overseeing the Mass Communications Organization of Thailand. He was accused of press interference and had ongoing conflicts with the military, to the point that he was cited by the coup-makers as one of the reasons for the 1991 military coup d'état. In the wake of the coup Chalerm was among the politicians accused of "unusual wealth", and had 32 million baht in assets seized.^[4] He fled Thailand to live in Sweden and Denmark until the political situation cooled down.

[Thai at Heart]

Difficult one but perhaps Denmark understands that a Danish national will be chucked out of LOS in the same circumstances.

But if the child is Thai citizen the child will not be made to leave.

In Thailand the Danish person would then be able to apply for a visa supporting a thai child.

Yeah yeah yeah. After a period, people shouldn't have to apply for visas and should be able to progress to working without the use of work permits in Thailand. There is no social system to speak of anyway, so nothing to avail yourself of. But no, farangs remain farangs essentially forever in Thailand. And don't pipe up about PR, because we all know that that system is broken anyway.

So to this case. I would say that that is incredibly harsh on the mother and kid and some right minding relative of the deceased should man up and marry the woman to stop this rather heinous act.

[HeavyDrinker]

What is the reason that they have come to the attention of authorities and the circumstances to warrant deportation. Is it simply an expired visa, did she use her Danish Partner as a tool to get into the country or was she involved in some inappropriate conduct or criminal activity.

It is a shame for the children who are victims of their parents actions.

It is more of a shame people have to jump to wild surmises, yet the forum would be less interesting if people didn't I suppose...

I could tell you a true story why some (me) think like that.

You very probably could. I could too, but in this case it's mere supposition with no facts reported.

[transam]

You forget my post..............If the Danish guys wife died in LOS, what would happen to him ?

[simple1]

The OP is somewhat strange as usual Western government policy on immigration visa status is based upon "the best interest of the child", not the immigration status of the mother, that permits both mother & child to remain in country.

From the little known info it appears to be a cold hearted decision. Not knowing the facts & decision making process in Denmark on immigration matters, maybe the relevant Minister will review & overrule the ruling as has occurred, in exceptional circumstances, with the Australian Immigration Minister.

For those that are cheering the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

Edited October 17, 2013 by simple1

[David48]

For those that are cheering the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

I don't mean to be disrespectful but ... For those that are dismissing the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

A Sovereign Country has the right to make rulings in line with their Laws.

We are crying out for 'Rule of Law' in Thailand and when, apparently it's imposed in Denmark ... we are crying foul ... not a fair go!

You can't adopt the Moral high ground without acknowledging the Laws of the Country.

[transam]

Don't think anyone is cheering, just that LOS has a one way street that does not accept a farang. So why should other countries provide a two way street at their expense ?

In UK no problem but perhaps Denmark is delving into stuff.

[GarryP]

What does "not sufficiently capable of integrating" mean in real terms?

[bangkockney]

For those that are cheering the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

I don't mean to be disrespectful but ... For those that are dismissing the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

A Sovereign Country has the right to make rulings in line with their Laws.

We are crying out for 'Rule of Law' in Thailand and when, apparently it's imposed in Denmark ... we are crying foul ... not a fair go!

You can't adopt the Moral high ground without acknowledging the Laws of the Country.

This is a little silly. History is littered with unethical and immoral laws that people fought to change or indeed still remain.

Being a law doesn't change it from being unethical and immoral.

I'm sure you don't need me to give you examples.

It seems Denmark has a history of such decisions, sadly.

And for those calling for tit-for-tat parity, let's have a Thai language test for your future visas.

[simple1]

For those that are cheering the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

I don't mean to be disrespectful but ... For those that are dismissing the ruling without knowing the facts is shameful.

A Sovereign Country has the right to make rulings in line with their Laws.

We are crying out for 'Rule of Law' in Thailand and when, apparently it's imposed in Denmark ... we are crying foul ... not a fair go!

You can't adopt the Moral high ground without acknowledging the Laws of the Country.

Again not knowing the facts for the ruling to use a cliche, sometimes "the law is an ass" and as I posted above when appropriate compassion should be exercised by the relevant government minister.

Just because Thai immigration law can a negative in some situations there is no need to take on a retaliatory position articulated by some posters.