Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[DennisKL]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

Hitting the nail on the head!

[paz]

No ? Do you remember the 2 million elite card issued during Thaksin government and than cancelled ?

Not cancelled, it is still available. My friend and uses it no problem.

You can read other threads about.

Anyway, that is off topic.

[max72]

I come to Thailand every winter for 6 months from the UK for the last 10 years.I had non "O" 2times when it was easier and now use triple tourist visas.I work offshore so i can go away for 6 months and get away from the winter and have plenty of cash to spend in LOS.

I have used extensions a few times to stay extra months also.I will apply for the same visa this time when i come.I have 2 used triple visas in my newish passport with 1 extension.I use the Ranong crossing as it is near the island i stay at.

I understand the reason they are cracking down on 30 day exempt,but on the same hand border runners are not breaking any laws in that respect.If it was illegal it would not be allowed,but it is not illegal.

If i stay 2 months and do a run for the 2nd and 3rd entry and return on the same day that is also not illegal as the visa allows it.If i want to extend it for 30 more days that is also not illegal as they allow it and inform us on their consulate sites that it is ok to do that.

There seems to be no consistency in their administry of the new rules.They should limit the multiple exempt to just one 30 day entry.They should ask for more evidence of funds when issuing the tourist visa in our home countries,or only issue single entry 60 day visas and not allow another until 30-60 days after it has expired.Plenty of people who work in their own country often go away for the winter months to be in a better climate to relax and have fun.Not everyone is in LOS to work illegally or stay illegally.

All i ask is for the rules to be consistent and clear so we can all abide by the rules.

Not so much to ask is it?

100% understand you but effectively your living half you life in Thailand and not a tourist as such.

Easy fixed, get legal

get legal ?

He is already legal.

A tourist.

He would be illegal if he used visas others than tourist.

Illegal are the people with work permits who are not working.

[phirho]

Moreover, that card is valid today, but can be cancelled tomorrow with no refund.

It happened already with other Elite Cards in the past. Issued and than cancelled.

In fairness, that never happened.

No ? Do you remember the 2 million elite card issued during Thaksin government and than cancelled ?

This is incorrect. The first version of the elite card was 1 million baht and later increased to 1.5 million. It was going to be cancelled in 2011 but TAT refused citing huge costs to compensate the card holders. Later the program was relaunched and now offers 2 million full membership and 0.5 million easy access program (visa only)

No one had their card cancelled and folks who bought into the program for 1 million in 2004 are still getting their 5 year visas.

[MJCM]

Illegal are the people with work permits who are not working.

I think those people are very hard to find, but do you mean by any chance "people with No work permits who are working" ?

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[max72]

Moreover, that card is valid today, but can be cancelled tomorrow with no refund.

It happened already with other Elite Cards in the past. Issued and than cancelled.

In fairness, that never happened.

No ? Do you remember the 2 million elite card issued during Thaksin government and than cancelled ?

This is incorrect. The first version of the elite card was 1 million baht and later increased to 1.5 million. It was going to be cancelled in 2011 but TAT refused citing huge costs to compensate the card holders. Later the program was relaunched and now offers 2 million full membership and 0.5 million easy access program (visa only)

No one had their card cancelled and folks who bought into the program for 1 million in 2004 are still getting their 5 year visas.

Ok I apologize. But I still don't trust it. Next time they can be cancelled and who knows about the compensation.

Anyway, I just want to spend few months in Thailand during winter months, I stay outside 6 months. Can't i get in with a double visa anymore ?

Over 30 days will I be not a tourist ? What would I be than ??? I don't work, I am under 50, I am not married, I don't live in Thailand, I am not a student. Which is the "proper" visa if not tourist ??

[Pattszero]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

What a load of c**p

I spend as much as six months a year in Thailand touring about - I bet I've seen more of the country than guys that have spent twenty years there.

My annual spend in Thailand is about 500,000 baht, easy - probably closer to 800,000.

I bet you there are 10,000 tourists like me - easy - if you said 100,000 I wouldn't be amazed. Go get a calculator and work out how much we are worth to the economy - far more than the scrabbling pensioners getting by on 25,000 a month. They've cast a fine net to catch a sprat - and pulled out the big fish too.

Idiotic.

[max72]

Illegal are the people with work permits who are not working.

I think those people are very hard to find, but do you mean by any chance "people with No work permits who are working" ?

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

I really mean people who gets work permit but they don;t work, they have friends who make them the favor (the permanent tourists will pay them the expenses of course and something more) to issue them work permits but in fact they are permanent tourists.

I know few of those... but I am not a spy.

Those ones are breaking the rules , not people like me who just want to spend long holidays and don't need to work.

Edited July 14, 2014 by max72

[Oscar2]

Amazing Thailand. "We desperately need tourism to shore up our flagging economy, so we are going to anger and humiliate tourists in order to keep them coming." Makes perfect Thai sense. This is a country that needs lessons in basic economics, preferably taught by NON-Thai instructors. A storm of fecal proportions is on the way.

here we go again. they are not singling out tourists. they are singling out people who are working here illegally or are involved in criminal activity using back to back tourist visas to be here. these people are NOT tourists.

[max72]

Amazing Thailand. "We desperately need tourism to shore up our flagging economy, so we are going to anger and humiliate tourists in order to keep them coming." Makes perfect Thai sense. This is a country that needs lessons in basic economics, preferably taught by NON-Thai instructors. A storm of fecal proportions is on the way.

here we go again. they are not singling out tourists. they are singling out people who are working here illegally or are involved in criminal activity using back to back tourist visas to be here. these people are NOT tourists.

Before SLANDERING people, please post a link which states that those guys with VALID tourist visas , were criminals and/or illegal workers.

Edited July 14, 2014 by max72

[RTH10260]

I was shocked to read this when I woke up this morning. I am just looking for some guidance really.

My mother in law from the Philippines has been staying with us and helping take care of our baby. First she came over on a 30 day visa exempt stamp and two weeks ago she did a u turn at the sadao border for another 15 days. When she was coming through to do her 15 days they told her at the border that next time she won't be able to do a u turn and will need to spend a night in Malaysia. She is actually planning on staying until September. My husband is planning on taking her to penang tomorrow to get a 60 day tourist visa. They will return via the sadao border.any ideas if she is going to be denied entry at the border? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Also in a post elsewhere immigration suggested a double night stay outside of Thailand. In wich case you have been "touring" the foreign coutry and return as a bonafide tourist, not as a same day backtoback visa runner. It's somewhat the only arbitrary way to differ between the two. I guess the hotel bill should be kept handy, possibly also somwe receipt of money exchange in the neighbouring country may help.

[Pattszero]

Amazing Thailand. "We desperately need tourism to shore up our flagging economy, so we are going to anger and humiliate tourists in order to keep them coming." Makes perfect Thai sense. This is a country that needs lessons in basic economics, preferably taught by NON-Thai instructors. A storm of fecal proportions is on the way.

here we go again. they are not singling out tourists. they are singling out people who are working here illegally or are involved in criminal activity using back to back tourist visas to be here. these people are NOT tourists.

Before SLANDERING people, please post a link which states that those guys with VALID tourist visas , were criminals and/or illegal workers.

It really is scandalous the bile some people are posting.

[larsjohnsson]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

How about in your country? do you think a Thai can get back to back visas and stay as long as they like. They probably cant" even get a visa in the first place.

Comparing Thailand to developed countries like the US and those in the EU is idiotic. Developed countries have difficult visa requirements because 1) many people wish to enter primarily to work and 2) these people could be a drain on government coffers if they ever needed assistance (welfare and the like). Thailand has immigrant labor problems, but in reality these immigrants are much more likely to be found on a construction site than on Thaivisa. There is a crackdown on immigrant labor, and people may or may not be getting shot at on the way out. Most of us on Thaivisa are bringing money in from abroad, or are working in a capacity that is not threatening native Thai employment (English teaching). We are not costing Thailand or its people anything at all by being here, and in many cases are greatly contributing to the local economy.

Furthermore, just because something is "the law of the land" does not make it automatically just and worthy of respect. Jim Crow was legal in the US, and slavery was once the law of the land in many places. does that mean those laws are worthy of respect? And, why should anyone in Thailand be faulted for having a cynical view of the law when Thai citizens and even the police, military, and government officials have such little respect for it? Rule of law does not really exist here, and to pretend otherwise is foolish. In this country, enforcement of laws and regulations has ALWAYS been lax, so why now? Why are tourist visas being issued but those that hold them are being refused entry?

Why would an English teacher worry about about people with tourist visas being refused entry?

Because some people actually just worry for the safety and happiness of others. Hard for you to understand, I know.

Yes I have seen that in about 10-15 posts from you in this thread, attacking every person here. And we all know what you worry about.

[firestar]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

What a load of c**p

I spend as much as six months a year in Thailand touring about - I bet I've seen more of the country than guys that have spent twenty years there.

My annual spend in Thailand is about 500,000 baht, easy - probably closer to 800,000.

I bet you there are 10,000 tourists like me - easy - if you said 100,000 I wouldn't be amazed. Go get a calculator and work out how much we are worth to the economy - far more than the scrabbling pensioners getting by on 25,000 a month. They've cast a fine net to catch a sprat - and pulled out the big fish too.

Idiotic.

Very true.

A friend of mine comes here every other month, few weeks at a time. doesn't drink or join in the party scene much, often rents a boat that waits for him at Samui or Koh Chang depending on the season. He is a poster boy for the quality tourist Thailand wants, better yet he's a repeat customer. Now he could get hassled for of all the exempt and tourist stamps in his passport. If you don't read TV you don't know about the PE card, it isn't technically a visa anyway only a card that gives you visa "privileges". not something the average visitor would know. the tourist visa is the visa he needs to come in legally, in fact it is the only LEGAL visa he should use.

_______________

Edited July 14, 2014 by firestar

[RTH10260]

How long must you stay out of the country for a tourist visa to not be classed as back-to-back. One day, one week, one month, several months?

I have seen one or two nights repirted in a couple of pists on TV. Cannot be more or you will mess up the bonafide one day tourist trips to Cambodia (Siem Rap) or Laos (Vientiane).

[oarias]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

A cold fact that apparently needs to be repeated ad infinitum since some people seem incapable of understanding it.

Exactly now put yourself in the shoes of someone who requires (or wants) a TV to visit. Let's see go pay money at consulate in my country, book flights, hotels and hope and pray that some guy is not having an off day.....

Which is what I did. I am leaving to Thailand next week with my fresh two entry visa. Wondering if I'm going to get bent over when I try to use that second entry flying into DM airport from Cambodia.

[AYJAYDEE]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

What a load of c**p

I spend as much as six months a year in Thailand touring about - I bet I've seen more of the country than guys that have spent twenty years there.

My annual spend in Thailand is about 500,000 baht, easy - probably closer to 800,000.

I bet you there are 10,000 tourists like me - easy - if you said 100,000 I wouldn't be amazed. Go get a calculator and work out how much we are worth to the economy - far more than the scrabbling pensioners getting by on 25,000 a month. They've cast a fine net to catch a sprat - and pulled out the big fish too.

Idiotic.

Very true.

A friend of mine comes here every other month, few weeks at a time. doesn't drink or join in the party scene much, often rents a boat that waits for him at Samui or Koh Chang depending on the season. He is a poster boy for the quality tourist Thailand wants, better yet he's a repeat customer. Now he could get hassled for of all the exempt and tourist stamps in his passport. If you don't read TV you don't know about the PE card, it isn't technically a visa anyway only a card that gives you visa "privileges". not something the average visitor would know. the tourist visa is the visa he needs to come in legally, in fact it is the only LEGAL visa he should use.

_______________

every second month doesnt sound like back to back tourist visas. can't imagine theyd hassle him

[Arkady]

The article at first glance seemed contradictory in saying that all holders of tourist visas were denied entry and then saying that all those denied had a history of visa running. But on second thoughts I assumed that no one showed up with a tourist visa who didn't have a a history of visa running. So we don't know, if some one with no recent entries to Thailand would have been allowed in on a tourist visa but the officers' comments imply that they would have been, although the Sungai Kolok border crossing is perhaps not the first choice of bona fide tourists arriving on tourist visas. They also seem to be suggesting that visa runners with tourist visas will be permitted to enter by air (for now). Otherwise it would seem a serious lack of coordination between Immigration and the Foreign Ministry, if embassies are issuing visas that cannot be used to enter Thailand at all.

It is not surprising that the junta should order this, given the military's concerns over national security, e.g. the unintentional expulsion of Cambodian workers, and the millions of aliens living in Thailand for years with either no documentation at all or, like the visa runners, with the wrong documentation for what they are actually doing in the Kingdom. However, I suspect that it was only a matter of time and I don't think things will revert back after the junta goes. I think this will continue with more tightening up on loopholes like ED visas used by people who are not actually learning anything, followed by a raising of the bar on financial requirements for retirement and marriage extensions to take account of inflation over the 20 years since they were last adjusted. But anyone with 5 years' of continuous extensions would probably be grandfathered in at the current levels, just like the last time. Maybe they will even come up with a Thailand My Second Home policy like Malaysia with 5-10 year visas (but no freehold land) for retirees who can bring in 5 or 10 million baht. They obviously don't like the Elite Card because that was Thaksin's brainchild. So an alternative is not beyond the bounds of possibility and they have said they will reform Immigration laws.

[RTH10260]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

^I seriously doubt this.

What it will do however is stop these people that have exploited a system that was not strictly enforced as it should have been. I support it 100%. I am glad those multi visa runners were displaced. I doubt they will be let back in from the airport

Either you are a tourist occasionally or you live here with a retirement, Marriage or Work visa.

I expect more borders to follow suit soon.

How about u are rich and young and not married?

What kind of visa please?

If you are rich you hold the Elite Card, no more questions asked.

[sscsamui]

There are Many people working illegally in Thailand and something has to be done about it and this is what they have stared to do...

[ILOOKFORWORK]

"Previously, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs circulated information to the foreign Embassies and Consulates in Thailand and to the Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates worldwide that individuals with back-to-back tourist visa entries will be refused entry into Thailand from August 13."

Why are Thai Embassies issuing double and triple entry visas if it is known that they do not allow a second entry. If this were really an honest attempt at prevent people from working while on Tourist Visas, multiple entries would not be issued,

"Immigration officials at Sungai Kolok, as well as at several other border checkpoints in the south, have been ordered by the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok to deny entry to foreigners holding 60-days Tourist visas."

And who orders the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok?

Edited July 14, 2014 by ILOOKFORWORK

[Time Traveller]

So why did I pay 75 quid for a triple entry tourist visa in London?

I can not even use it!

Yes you can, if you are a legitimate tourist.

Maybe I'm stupid but what does a Thai Consulate or Embassy consider a legimate tourist when issuing a tourist visa. I can't find anything on Thai Government websites which asks for an applicant to define their 'status' as a tourist when applying for a tourist visa.

The Thai consulate and embassies define it as anyone that can pay the visa fee. The border immigration have a different definition, that's why they sometimes refuse entry to people with valid visas.

[max72]

I was shocked to read this when I woke up this morning. I am just looking for some guidance really.

My mother in law from the Philippines has been staying with us and helping take care of our baby. First she came over on a 30 day visa exempt stamp and two weeks ago she did a u turn at the sadao border for another 15 days. When she was coming through to do her 15 days they told her at the border that next time she won't be able to do a u turn and will need to spend a night in Malaysia. She is actually planning on staying until September. My husband is planning on taking her to penang tomorrow to get a 60 day tourist visa. They will return via the sadao border.any ideas if she is going to be denied entry at the border? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Also in a post elsewhere immigration suggested a double night stay outside of Thailand. In wich case you have been "touring" the foreign coutry and return as a bonafide tourist, not as a same day backtoback visa runner. It's somewhat the only arbitrary way to differ between the two. I guess the hotel bill should be kept handy, possibly also somwe receipt of money exchange in the neighbouring country may help.

Great !

Welcome to the country of lawlessness !

It's all up to the mood of some bucreocrat.

One might suggest you to spend a night in Malaysia, another one to board a plane from Kuala Lumpur, another one to go away, and if you win the lottery and the guy has had a wonderful night with his gf/mistress, you will have the green light.

At least in some countries like Costa Rica there are laws: after your 3 months visa expires, you need to stay outside 72 hours and that's it, this is valid always, with every immigration officier at any border point, regardeless of his mood.

[RTH10260]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Marry and you ought to qualify for non-O/marriage visa. Actually why not bring the then wife to yiur home country andvguarantee your kid a good education?

[DrTuner]

Maybe they will even come up with a Thailand My Second Home policy like Malaysia with 5-10 year visas (but no freehold land) for retirees who can bring in 5 or 10 million baht. They obviously don't like the Elite Card because that was Thaksin's brainchild. So an alternative is not beyond the bounds of possibility and they have said they will reform Immigration laws.

A long term visa would certainly lower the stress levels of expats. More so relaxing the PR process a bit.

The Elite scheme was Thaksin's idea, but it could easily be redressed: it's likely there are ministerial regulations in force that allow such a "Privileged Entry" visa to be granted (I've yet to see them, but I suppose so). All they need to do is give the hammer to Thailand Elite, the company marketing the extra perks attached, and start selling these visas in the embassies. In other words, scrap the elite part and make it a mundane pay-per-stay. Ought to be easy enough.

[seancbk]

My current British Passport has the following :-

[Original content edited for space]

I'm also wondering if I should skip applying for an extension on my current Tourist visa, so that it look less like I'm trying to stay here as a tourist.

I should also point out that I've been working on setting up my own business here and am close to doing that, but probably still a few months away.

Obviously I am also getting concerned that I may attempt to fly in from Penang or KL (my 2 choices now for my next Tourist Visa or ED visa depending on other factors) and be denied entry based on my visa history.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers!

Only my opinion of course but I would say that with that History you are going to have severe problems getting back into Thailand under the new restrictions.

Patrick

This is my 3rd passport since moving here (First one stolen, second one filled up and now on no.3)

I had no problem applying for the tourist visa in Hong Kong 6 weeks ago and no problem coming back into Thailand after a week away, despite my passport having 6 or 7 back to back Visa exempt stamps.

Of course I realise things are getting harder and they are now looking at the stamps in a persons passport, which is why I wondered if its worth trying to get an extension at Chaeng Wattana on my current tourist visa or simple go somewhere to apply for a fresh one.

The other thing is I always fly out, stay away for a few days, then fly back in. Are they really going to start turning people away at the airports?

[firestar]

every second month doesnt sound like back to back tourist visas. can't imagine theyd hassle him

I don't think they would deny him entry but hassle and question him until they can figure out the order of all the stamps (immigration seems to love putting stamps on random pages) yes.

[larsjohnsson]

I repeat my question in case somebody has an answer:

DID these guys have an exit ticket from Thailand when they were refused entry at the Southern Border ?

Its not required with tourist visas

In many countries you must show a return ticket when you apply for a tourist visa

[seancbk]

My current British Passport has the following :-

Non Immigrant B visa - entered 20th Aug 2013, departed 17 Nov 2013

Visa Exempt - entered 23 Nov 2013, departed 16 Dec 2013

Visa Exempt - entered 30 Dec 2013, departed 24 Jan 2014

Visa Exempt - entered 27 Jan 2014, departed 21 Feb 2014

Visa Exempt - entered 24 Feb 2014, departed 21 Mar 2014

Visa Exempt - entered 24 Mar 2014, departed 22 Apr 2014

Visa Exempt - entered 23 Apr 2014, departed 22 May 2014

60 Tourist Visa - entered 29 May 2014

I have until the 27th July on my current Tourist Visa.

I plan to go for an extension of 30 days at Immigration.

All my trips have been fights out to Hong Kong / Macau and back in after a short holiday.

In my previous passport I had a Non B from Feb 2011 which I used for 15 months (and prior to that a combination of Tourist visa and visa exemption stamps)

I was thinking of enrolling in a 6 month Thai language course and getting the 90 day ED visa and doing one 90 day extension on it. I want to learn Thai, but don't want to commit to a full year of tuition at once.

I'm also wondering if I should skip applying for an extension on my current Tourist visa, so that it look less like I'm trying to stay here as a tourist.

I should also point out that I've been working on setting up my own business here and am close to doing that, but probably still a few months away.

Obviously I am also getting concerned that I may attempt to fly in from Penang or KL (my 2 choices now for my next Tourist Visa or ED visa depending on other factors) and be denied entry based on my visa history.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers!

Only my opinion of course but I would say that with that History you are going to have severe problems getting back into Thailand under the new restrictions.

Patrick

We'll see. I can't honestly see them turning airline passengers away at immigration, if they've arrived with the correct paid for visa.

My question really was is it worth going to Chaeng Wattana and applying for a 30 day extension on my current Tourist visa or simply leave when the visa expires (or before) and get a new visa in Penang or KL.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Marry and you ought to qualify for non-O/marriage visa. Actually why not bring the then wife to yiur home country andvguarantee your kid a good education?

MC, Either do one of the following... Continue studying Thai language and renew your ED-Visa for another 12 months, or work on finding a way to immigrate your girlfriend and child to the country which recognizes you as a citizen.... You could also do both of those options (continue studying while also working on immigrating them to your place). Getting them out of Thailand is the smart choice, as the situation is not stable right now.