Does Car Insurance Cover If Driver has No Licence?

[cooked]

In reply to the OP I would be very reluctant to lend my car to a 19 year old Thai, who has hardly had any driving experience apart from motorbikes (probably). This is an age where people are most likely to have accidents and if the kid is anything like the ones around here, they are going out for drinkies. Getting a license isn't a big deal (well it has become a little more difficult lately) and I can't understand why anyone would be risking a ฿200.- fine for something that costs I think about ฿400.- plus a morning at the centre. If he can't be bothered to do that then he doesn't seem to be taking driving seriously.

Apart from that a family member here goes to work every day on his motorbike and pays fines about once a month, sometimes for no DL and sometimes for no helmet. Another has had head injuries three times (guess who takes these guys to the hospital?), no helmet. I wouldn't even let my kid use the bike for a month if I saw him one time without a helmet.

[cooked]

Your insurance is void if you have no valid licence which means a Thai licence, if you are in Thailand for more than 3 months. If you are in country less than 3 months, that means a valid home country licence and an international licence. The latter are only valid in Thailand for 3 months from the date of issue, regardless of what it says on the international licence. Even though you have a valid licence, your insurance is invalidated, if you were arrested for drunk driving.

Be legal. Don't give your insurance co a chance to avoid paying up. They will take any chance they can to save money and certainly don't care about bad publicity from foreigners.

Again: no, no IDP required in combination with home license, provided home license is in English (or pictures) and has a photo.

Why do people keep on telling this nonsense really is beyond me.

I can't let that one go. Why do people keep on assuming that their experience in one particular place in Thailand is valid for all of Thailand? For me it was no IDL accompanied by home DL, no provisional (one year) license.

I don't think anybody does rely on experience in one place.

But a search of the law, letters to police, to rental companies, to insurance companies etc. do the trick, just search the forum and you'll find all answers.

Your experience at the DLT with obtaining a Thai DL has no bearing whatsoever on the legal requirement for driving with an a IDP or not.

Way off topic, but why are you talking about what is legal or not in Thailand? Many of the above postings are clear about the fact that you need a license for coverage and then go on to say that the insurance paid up anyway. I didn't say that my experience had any bearing on the legal requirements, did I? The fact remains is that if I insisted on the law being applied I still wouldn't have a license.

[harrry]

Your insurance is void if you have no valid licence which means a Thai licence, if you are in Thailand for more than 3 months. If you are in country less than 3 months, that means a valid home country licence and an international licence. The latter are only valid in Thailand for 3 months from the date of issue, regardless of what it says on the international licence. Even though you have a valid licence, your insurance is invalidated, if you were arrested for drunk driving.

Be legal. Don't give your insurance co a chance to avoid paying up. They will take any chance they can to save money and certainly don't care about bad publicity from foreigners.

Again: no, no IDP required in combination with home license, provided home license is in English (or pictures) and has a photo.

Why do people keep on telling this nonsense really is beyond me.

I can't let that one go. Why do people keep on assuming that their experience in one particular place in Thailand is valid for all of Thailand? For me it was no IDL accompanied by home DL, no provisional (one year) license.

I don't think anybody does rely on experience in one place.

But a search of the law, letters to police, to rental companies, to insurance companies etc. do the trick, just search the forum and you'll find all answers.

Your experience at the DLT with obtaining a Thai DL has no bearing whatsoever on the legal requirement for driving with an a IDP or not.

• Membership reciprocity
• Australia
• Overs

thailand

Australian International Driving Permit: Required

Side of the road to drive: Left

Nationality distinguishing plates: T

Royal Automobile Association of Thailand

151 Ratchadapisek Road

Bangkhen

Bangkok 10900

Tel:(662) 939 5770

Fax: (662) 511 2230

Internet: www.raat.or.th

Email: [email protected]

Towing limited to Bangkok.

Free 24 hour breakdown and towing service available.

Breakdown Contact Details:

This is from the RAC australia site.....as an official issuing body they should know,

ist of countries for which a permit is required

An IDP is required for the following countries.

Special conditions or requirements apply for those countries in the list below with one or more capital letters alongside. It is important that you refer to the corresponding note(s) at the foot of this page.

This is from the uk aa http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/idp-requirements-by-country.html

IDP 1949

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V Y Z

........other countries ommited by me

Thailand

THis from the USA

http://www.nationalautoclub.com/international_driving_permit_countries.pdf

[stevenl]

Again: no, no IDP required in combination with home license, provided home license is in English (or pictures) and has a photo.

Why do people keep on telling this nonsense really is beyond me.

I can't let that one go. Why do people keep on assuming that their experience in one particular place in Thailand is valid for all of Thailand? For me it was no IDL accompanied by home DL, no provisional (one year) license.

I don't think anybody does rely on experience in one place.

But a search of the law, letters to police, to rental companies, to insurance companies etc. do the trick, just search the forum and you'll find all answers.

Your experience at the DLT with obtaining a Thai DL has no bearing whatsoever on the legal requirement for driving with an a IDP or not.

• Membership reciprocity
• Australia
• Overs

thailand

Australian International Driving Permit: Required

Side of the road to drive: Left

Nationality distinguishing plates: T

Royal Automobile Association of Thailand

151 Ratchadapisek Road

Bangkhen

Bangkok 10900

Tel:(662) 939 5770

Fax: (662) 511 2230

Internet: www.raat.or.th

Email: [email protected]

Towing limited to Bangkok.

Free 24 hour breakdown and towing service available.

Breakdown Contact Details:

This is from the RAC australia site.....as an official issuing body they should know,

ist of countries for which a permit is required

An IDP is required for the following countries.

Special conditions or requirements apply for those countries in the list below with one or more capital letters alongside. It is important that you refer to the corresponding note(s) at the foot of this page.

This is from the uk aa http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/idp-requirements-by-country.html

IDP 1949

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V Y Z

........other countries ommited by me

Thailand

THis from the USA

http://www.nationalautoclub.com/international_driving_permit_countries.pdf

As mentioned before, do a search here on the forum and the result will be very, very clear: IDP is not required but can be of use.

I'm not going into this discussion again for the upteenth time.

[stevenl]

Again: no, no IDP required in combination with home license, provided home license is in English (or pictures) and has a photo.

Why do people keep on telling this nonsense really is beyond me.

I can't let that one go. Why do people keep on assuming that their experience in one particular place in Thailand is valid for all of Thailand? For me it was no IDL accompanied by home DL, no provisional (one year) license.

I don't think anybody does rely on experience in one place.

But a search of the law, letters to police, to rental companies, to insurance companies etc. do the trick, just search the forum and you'll find all answers.

Your experience at the DLT with obtaining a Thai DL has no bearing whatsoever on the legal requirement for driving with an a IDP or not.

Way off topic, but why are you talking about what is legal or not in Thailand? Many of the above postings are clear about the fact that you need a license for coverage and then go on to say that the insurance paid up anyway. I didn't say that my experience had any bearing on the legal requirements, did I? The fact remains is that if I insisted on the law being applied I still wouldn't have a license.

That's the way the discussion developed. It was claimed an IDP is legally required, not true.

And again, the driving laws have no bearing on you getting a Thai DL because you have a home license or IDP, so 'law being applied there' has nothing to do with the discussion here.

[cooked]

Yes and the discussion about Farangs getting a license has nothing to do with the Op, has it?

[kbelyeu]

"Car is 1yo Honda with new value over 600,000 Baht, so not a minor issue."

The cost of the car is nothing. Consider the potential cost if the son kills someone, and not just the financial aspect.

I'm amazed that anyone would even consider letting someone without a licence drive their vehicle unsupervised, even in a country where having a licence is such a poor indication of actual driving ability.

haha.... would you like to buy a clue.. even in western nations having a license means <deleted> all... anyone can pass a driving test even an idiot... same as having a thaivisa account.

Kurt

[vento]

A similar issue is whether my tgf can learn to drive in my car. It's a catch 22, she can't drive until she gets a licence but can't get a licence unless she learns to drive. How do thais learn to drive? is there no provisional licence like we have in the UK.

get her to take lesson in a school? a friend of mine took drivers lessons, was not to costly, i think about 6-7k baht and after that he did the test and got the license.

No need to use your car for that.

[vento]

It would be much better if you redirected your ***"friend"*** to the forum :/

I have a thai friend which caused a pretty big accident, it costed her several hundreds thousand baht due to no license (as i understood it), she earns a lot of money but still was set back more than 20x the price of a license

Another friends brother wrecked the car, as i understand it, without license and under the influence. As i understood it, insurance covered the counterpart, but not their own car. he is btw crippled for life and is unable to work. so he will be staying with mother for many years to come, unable to take care of himselv.

thats another thing to take into consideration. its not just protection of the assets but also protecting people from making damage to themselves (not that i believe any 19yo understand that anyway, i didnt when i was that age

Why not just get a license? its not difficult, problem solved.

[robblok]

It would be much better if you redirected your ***"friend"*** to the forum :/

I have a thai friend which caused a pretty big accident, it costed her several hundreds thousand baht due to no license (as i understood it), she earns a lot of money but still was set back more than 20x the price of a license

Another friends brother wrecked the car, as i understand it, without license and under the influence. As i understood it, insurance covered the counterpart, but not their own car. he is btw crippled for life and is unable to work. so he will be staying with mother for many years to come, unable to take care of himselv.

thats another thing to take into consideration. its not just protection of the assets but also protecting people from making damage to themselves (not that i believe any 19yo understand that anyway, i didnt when i was that age

Why not just get a license? its not difficult, problem solved.

Many of the foreigners are lazy and afraid of Thai bureaucracy. Just a stupid attitude you see here I got a m/c and car license. I do have a Dutch car license too, it has English on it and a picture so I could use it. But its not valid here because i live here.

[marstons]

As an ex insurance employee, very large international company, No licence for driver no insurance cover irrespective who is driving or has licence. Simple as that, some will tell you otherwise but not correct. An licence from your 'home' country is only valued for three months use in Thailand and must be accompanied by an International Driving Permit ( No such thing as licence) or certified Thai translation which is accepted more than the IDP.

Not correct, IDP is not required in Thailand provided the home DL is in English and has photo. certified Thai translation is not required.

Sorry you are wrong, what happens and what should happen are two entirely different things. Technically as per Thai law a home driving licence is NOT acceptable on it's own. Check the law.

Please don't start this discussion here again.

This discussion has been held here many times, and the result is always the same: home license is valid, provided in English and with photo. IDP is not required, but can be helpful sometimes.

Having work with the police and at times traffic police they said they only accepted Thai or IDP end of. From the horses mouth or as they saw it. My insurance AXA take photos copies of licence (Thai) of me and named driver nothing else is legal in their eyes. So the police and insurance companies view things differently to you. I know who's version of the law I would go with.

http://thailand.angloinfo.com/transport/driving-licences/

"If the driver is not a tourist or visitor but is a resident with a non-immigrant visa, then it is necessary to have a Thai driver's licence. However, those with a foreign licence as described above or an International Drivers Licence are excused from doing the practical driving test when applying for a Thai driving license."

[stevenl]

Not correct, IDP is not required in Thailand provided the home DL is in English and has photo. certified Thai translation is not required.

Sorry you are wrong, what happens and what should happen are two entirely different things. Technically as per Thai law a home driving licence is NOT acceptable on it's own. Check the law.

Please don't start this discussion here again.

This discussion has been held here many times, and the result is always the same: home license is valid, provided in English and with photo. IDP is not required, but can be helpful sometimes.

Having work with the police and at times traffic police they said they only accepted Thai or IDP end of. From the horses mouth or as they saw it. My insurance AXA take photos copies of licence (Thai) of me and named driver nothing else is legal in their eyes. So the police and insurance companies view things differently to you. I know who's version of the law I would go with.

http://thailand.angloinfo.com/transport/driving-licences/

"If the driver is not a tourist or visitor but is a resident with a non-immigrant visa, then it is necessary to have a Thai driver's licence. However, those with a foreign licence as described above or an International Drivers Licence are excused from doing the practical driving test when applying for a Thai driving license."

Resident and tourist requirements are different. For resident Thai DL is required, for tourist home license (provided in English and with photo), or if not in English and/or photo home license + IDP, valid for 3 months.

This is also what is written in the link you provided BTW (with the correct addition of the required agreement):

"o drive or lease a car in Thailand as a tourist or visitor it is necessary to have either a Thai driving licence or a valid foreign driving licence with a photograph. The foreign licence must either be in English, or be accompanied by an official translation into English or Thai. The licence needs to have been issued by a country that has a treaty with the Thai government allowing the mutual acceptance of driving licences. Most countries, including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the USA have this agreement with Thailand under the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic or the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. "

[chris2004]

A similar issue is whether my tgf can learn to drive in my car. It's a catch 22, she can't drive until she gets a licence but can't get a licence unless she learns to drive. How do thais learn to drive? is there no provisional licence like we have in the UK.

get her to take lesson in a school? a friend of mine took drivers lessons, was not to costly, i think about 6-7k baht and after that he did the test and got the license.

No need to use your car for that.

Yes a driving school is the obvious answer but my point was she would still have no licence whilst learning, and therefore no insurance. If she has a crash who is liable (for maybe millions of baht), the driving school or the driver. I can't see any insurance company in the world proving cover for an unlicenced driver.

[AAInsuranceBrokers]

Keeping in mind where we are. The Driving School will have insured their vehicles ‘Any Driver’ 1^st Class.

Should the learner (therefore no DL) causes the accident the other (third) party will be paid out from the vehicles 1^st Class policy – however there will be no payment for the School’s vehicle (that will be between the parties involved to sort out).

Not satisfactory but that’s all there is.

[piston broke]

in a nutshell - no licence no cover.

[harrry]

Keeping in mind where we are. The Driving School will have insured their vehicles ‘Any Driver’ 1^st Class.

Should the learner (therefore no DL) causes the accident the other (third) party will be paid out from the vehicles 1^st Class policy – however there will be no payment for the School’s vehicle (that will be between the parties involved to sort out).

Not satisfactory but that’s all there is.

However the act does say that in the case of a learner driver committing an offence etc. the licenced driver supervising will be considered the one driving unless the learner willfully disobeyed the instruction. If the car is insured and by this in the charge of a licenced driver (even though he was not at the wheel) should not the insurance be honoured.

[stevenl]

Keeping in mind where we are. The Driving School will have insured their vehicles ‘Any Driver’ 1^st Class.

Should the learner (therefore no DL) causes the accident the other (third) party will be paid out from the vehicles 1^st Class policy – however there will be no payment for the School’s vehicle (that will be between the parties involved to sort out).

Not satisfactory but that’s all there is.

However the act does say that in the case of a learner driver committing an offence etc. the licenced driver supervising will be considered the one driving unless the learner willfully disobeyed the instruction. If the car is insured and by this in the charge of a licenced driver (even though he was not at the wheel) should not the insurance be honoured.

Yes, a standard 1st class policy should. However a standard 1st class policy will also have a provision that it is for personal use, which is clearly not the case if it is in use by a driving school, which would require a different/adapted (and for sure much more expensive) policy.

I would not trust any driving school to have a policy like that until I can verify it with my own eyes, and if they do not have it it would not surprise me at all if there is no insurance cover (or they'll try under the standard cover).

[NomadJoe]

Why do people keep on telling this nonsense really is beyond me.

I can't let that one go. Why do people keep on assuming that their experience in one particular place in Thailand is valid for all of Thailand? For me it was no IDL accompanied by home DL, no provisional (one year) license.

I don't think anybody does rely on experience in one place.

But a search of the law, letters to police, to rental companies, to insurance companies etc. do the trick, just search the forum and you'll find all answers.

Your experience at the DLT with obtaining a Thai DL has no bearing whatsoever on the legal requirement for driving with an a IDP or not.

• Membership reciprocity
• Australia
• Overs

thailand

Australian International Driving Permit: Required

Side of the road to drive: Left

Nationality distinguishing plates: T

Royal Automobile Association of Thailand

151 Ratchadapisek Road

Bangkhen

Bangkok 10900

Tel:(662) 939 5770

Fax: (662) 511 2230

Internet: www.raat.or.th

Email: [email protected]

Towing limited to Bangkok.

Free 24 hour breakdown and towing service available.

Breakdown Contact Details:

This is from the RAC australia site.....as an official issuing body they should know,

ist of countries for which a permit is required

An IDP is required for the following countries.

Special conditions or requirements apply for those countries in the list below with one or more capital letters alongside. It is important that you refer to the corresponding note(s) at the foot of this page.

This is from the uk aa http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/idp-requirements-by-country.html

IDP 1949

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V Y Z

........other countries ommited by me

Thailand

THis from the USA

http://www.nationalautoclub.com/international_driving_permit_countries.pdf

Auto clubs have it wrong. They sell the bloody things, of course they are going to say it's required. They are erring on the side of caution because they know Thai police are currupt. The fact is an IDP is not required in Thailand for the vast majority of people.

I volunteer with the Thai police and I have asked 3 traffic police officers in the last two weeks, each sergeant or above, showing them my California license, asking if it was legal for a tourist to drive in Thailand on this only, with no IDP. Each replied "Yes legal, you no need international license in Thailand." I also asked the foreign police volunteer who works the traffic check points and who the Thai police hand foreign licenses to in order for him to determine if they are valid licenses or not, and he confirmed this as well.

---

Here is more than you ever wanted to know about IDP's in Thailand, and why they aren't required here. (Though nothing wrong with having one)

When I was a cop in the states I understood international drivers permits (IDP's) from that perspective pretty well. (An IDP is a passport sized document which adheres to various UN Convention on traffic acts and is usually issued by auto clubs which accompanies your home license and translates the information contained on your license into several languages, none of them Thai, and allows you in most cases to drive in a foreign county on your home license if you are a tourist/visiting that county [but not a resident].) The question always asked is, is it required in Thailand. Many states in America don't recognize IDP's. They just accept foreign licenses full stop. No need for IDP's. In the academy we were taught IDP's were generally useless all round, and that a lot of companies sell bogus ones for way more than the legitimate ones. I have always wondered why in Thailand I and everyone I knew was able to drive on their home license here with no IDP when some websites claimed it was required. Even my father had an accident in a rental car he rented with his home license with no IDP, and it was no problem for the police of insurance. So I decided to get to the bottom of this, as it was frustrating to me to see consulate, travel advice, and auto club websites telling people they needed to get an international drivers permit when it clearly isn't needed. I remember when i first came to Thailand stressing about getting an IDP and nearly buying a bogus one online for $100 USD. So after some research, it turns out car rental companies, insurance companies and police..none of them ask/require it. I knew there must be law to support this, and I set out to find it.

------

A few years ago I read in the paper a quote from a top BIB (which I really wish I could find) that made it all clear. He said that the official position of the BIB is that an English language license with a photo is considered an international license and thus does not require an IDP endorsement. This was probably due to the changes in technology, the fact that most licenses now have photos and are in English. In 1949 (The year of the Geneva Convention) most did not. This also makes sense when you realize that none of the languages an IDP translates your license into are Thai. That is how I believe the "IDP is required in Thailand for tourists" rumor got started. It may have once been the case, but no longer.

The first important piece to this puzzle is the Geneva Convention on Road Traffic act of 1949. This is where organizations like the Australian, Canadian, British, and U.S. auto clubs get their information on what countries require an IDP simply by looking at who had signed and/or ratified the act without actually reading the act. This act, which isn't a law but a treaty, (agreement between counties) covers a great many things like road design, road markings'signage, license plate design, (which, btw, Thailand is in violation of because they use Thai script, not Roman letters) drivers license design and, of course, the mutual acceptance of drivers licenses. Ever wonder why drivers licenses are so often pink? It comes from this act.

English versions of the Geneva Convention on Road Traffic act of 1949 are widely available online. There are other traffic acts out there addressing IDP's but none concern Thailand. These sources show Thailand becoming a contracting state to the act in 1962 via accession. Here is a translation of the relevant section of that act. Notice in paragraph 2 the word "may" in bold as well as the bit after "especially...". It's crystal clear that the treaty does not require contracting states to require an IDP.

CHAPTER V

DRIVERS OF MOTOR VEHICLES IN INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC

Article 24

1. Each Contracting State* shall allow any driver admitted to its territory and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an Association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in Annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.

2. A Contracting State may however require that any driver admitted to its territory shall carry an international driving permit conforming to the model contained in Annex 10, especially in the case of a driver coming from a country where a domestic driving permit is not required or where the domestic permit issued to him does not conform to the model contained in Annex 9.

* Thailand is a contracting state, as they became a party via accession on 15 Aug, 1962.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1955/2.html

http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/legalinst_07_RTRSS_RT1949.html

Then, the next and equally important piece of the puzzle is the Land Traffic Act of 1979, Title 3 Section 42. It clearly states that if there is mutual acceptance of licenses through treaty (like the treaty above) then "an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa (IE a tourist) may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government". Note that your home country and Thailand must have a treaty on mutual licenses. Most do so that shouldn't be a problem.

Land Traffic Act of 1979

Title 3: Driver's License

Section 42

Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver's license. The driver must carry the driver's license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver's license, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2

In case there's a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver's license, an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government.

http://www.bkkriders.com/law/motorvehicle.html

---

Not that any other evidence is really necessary, but to address the many claims that "If you're in an accident you can't make a claim without an IDP." or "You can't rent a car without an IDP.".. I submit the following email responses from several car rental companies and insurance companies whom I asked for their policy on this issue. Not a single one came back saying I needed an IDP if a tourist in Thailand. The big companies clearly state it right in their website.

Pure Car Rent:

"Thank you for your email. Intenational drivers license is no need to translate because when it says International it should already in English and it is permited to use internationally.

About insurance coverage, for Pure Car Rents insurance, Thai,

overseas or international drivers license is acceptable for our

insurance companies. So if you drive Pure Car Rents car with

drivers license issued by your country, you and the car are covered

by insurance.

HertzThailand.com:

"Rental Qualification :

Minimum renter age is 21 years.

Must hold a valid Thai driving license or a driving license from a

renters country of residence (with an English translation), or an

international driving license."

Budget.co.th:

Drivers License

All drivers must hold a current, non-probationary license.

The license may either be Thai, or from a renter's country of

residence (with an English translation) or an international drivers

permit. Licenses (and a valid passport) must be carried at all times

when driving.

Thai Rent A Car

In order to rent THAI RENT A CAR vehicle, a valid drivers license from the customers country of residence

is required and must be presented at time of rental. International renters must present a valid license from

their country of residence, if the license is in a language rather than English, an International Drivers

permit is required in conjunction with the country of residence drivers license

http://www.thairentacar.com/RentalGuides/

AA Insurance Thailand:

"Your 'home' license is legal in Thailand - as long as it is legal in your own country i.e. not suspended !"

Viriyah Insurance:

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and

very sorry for late reply. Regarding to your question, please be

inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of

America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car

in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an

accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.

Bupa Insurance:

"For the international IDP is not a problem sir. As I have check with Bangkok. Its not a problem for Bupa.

No problem with that and the insurance will be covered you for all.

-Prayurapong Pisanaka, Prayurapong Pisanaka, Executive Health & Financial Manager - Head Office

American International Assurance Company, Limited

----

Here is a short collection of first hand accounts from various sources of the seemingly infinite reports of interactions between foreigners driving with no IDP and the Thai police. This reflects the actual reality of the situation on the ground in Thailand and should be the best measuring stick to the legality of diving on your home license with no IDP. It strikes me as very odd that the police who are so fond of finding any little thing to make some tea money seem to be ignoring this if an IDP is required.

Lonely Planet entry:

"I've rented cars in Thailand many times. All the rental companies ask for is a driver's license (US state) and credit card -- just like everywhere else. I've been stopped by the police several times and the driver's license was fine."

Thaivisa member bob4you

I've been driving here for 5 years, stopped a couple of dozen times. Hawaii drivers license was accepted (never questioned once) each time.

ThaiVisa member bubba:

I have never had an International Driving License and I have driven in Thailand using both hired cars and my own car for about ten years now. I do have a valid licence from home. My insurance policy has a clause that states that only a "valid drivers license" is required for the class of vehicle insured. After inquiring, I got it in writing that this includes foreign licenses. I have been involved in three minor property damage accidents, two in a hire car and one in my own car. Whilst driving on a foreign license, my car was smashed by an uninsured pickup with my repair bill being 24,000 baht. My insurance company sent their adjuster out, he made out a report, and I was compensated fully. None of the police asked for a Thai or international licence, nor did the insurance companies and my own insurance company explicitly allows for coverage of drivers using a foreign licence, so long as that licence is valid for the class of vehicle driven. I have been stopped at police checkpoints and police invented traffic infractions dozens of times, and sometimes they ask for my licence. No problem. The police just want the money, not a big hassle. I have hired cars in Thailand dozens of times and no Thai or international licence is required by those companies either, including the majors such as Avis and Budget.

Here are the car rental companies in Thailand that I have used and none require an IDP or Thai licence so long as I had a recognisable and valid foreign licence:

Hertz

Avis

Budget

Master Car Rental

North Wheels (Chiang Mai)

ThaiVisa member tropa:

I went through one of these road blocks on 3rd Road yesterday. I showed them my Australian drivers licence and they waved me through.

landofsmiles from another forum:

"Your [home] licence is fine. Chances are in a few days you won't even go through any police checks and if you do it will still be ok. I don't have a bike endorsement on mine and I've been through dozens of checks. All they want to see is the word LICENCE and your photo."

ThaiVisa member fiddlehead:

"I always just used my state drivers licence from USA ... used the above for about 3 years ... Never got a fine for it. Except once because it had expired."

ThaiVisa member phuketrex:

"5 years in Thailand. Through 100's of police checks. Never a problem showing my British licence."

Commenter Robb at Pattaya One:

" Ive been driving here for years only on my home country licence and never had a problem. Seem the police like the fact I have all my other documentation for my bike, nicely color photocopied and in a ziplok bag under the seat, they never question the fact I dont have an international licence"

ThaiVisa member Deaw:

Cruising down 2nd road in Pattaya on my rented 'cycle, not far from the Central Mall; must've been about 30 cops there, with the orange cones and some barricades, flashing red lights, etc.....pulling over EVERY motorcycle, farang and Thai alike. This was at 5pm.

I got waved over by 2 guys .... helmet on; check. One says "license, please", and I hand him my N.Y. state drivers license. While he is looking it over, I say "I am a tourist here, I don't live in Thailand". Then I point to the "M.C." next to the Operator code and tell them "M.C., that means motorcycle".

The older of the 2 says "OK" and they stand aside and let me pass. Total time wasted; 30 seconds.

Total bribe and/or fine paid, and total number of laws broken; None.

ThaiVisa member collectsskulls:

"I have an international drivers permit but have never been asked for it only my Canadian one"

ThaiVisa member Kwasaki:

"I have never needed an IDP in Thailand having a UK valid driving license"

Wiki Answers

"All drivers must hold a current, non-probationary licence either Thai or from their own country but if it is not Thai or English they must carry an English translation or an international driving licence."

Wiki Answers

"I drove in Thailand for the first 12 months on a west Australian licence and was often checked but never a problem. Each time I was stopped at a police check point, the policeman seemed more intent on proving that he could read my name.

After that 12 months I got an International liicence whch was a waste of money as I still only showed my Australian licence.

So ,, short answer No you dont need one"

Wiki Answers

"International or US Driver's License and Passport is all you need."

Wiki Answers

"You don't have to have an international driver's license to rent a car, the rental agencies will rent you a car with a valid license from your home country. If you get stopped by the police make sure you show them your passport and the tourist visa stamp"

Wiki Answers

"If you are a farang and possess your home drivers license, that is enough. If a policeman (especially in Udon Thani) stops you, you simply show him your drivers license"

-----

Bottom line:

Your home license is valid in Thailand if:

1) You are a tourist/visitor, not a resident expat (though residents get away with it regularly, legally they need a Thai DL)

2) It is in English.

3) It has a photo.

4) It is current

5) It is for the class of vehicle you are diving.

6) Your home country and Thailand have a mutual agreement on licenses. (Most do)

[bubba]

Many are constantly stating here that Thai insurance companies will not cover a driver if he/she has only a home country licence, and not a Thai licence. That is simply not true. I have Viriyah insurance (first class) as well. I received a similar reply from them as was posted in the preceding thread:

Viriyah Insurance:

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and
very sorry for late reply. Regarding to your question, please be
inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of
America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car
in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an
accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.

[stevenl]

Many are constantly stating here that Thai insurance companies will not cover a driver if he/she has only a home country licence, and not a Thai licence. That is simply not true. I have Viriyah insurance (first class) as well. I received a similar reply from them as was posted in the preceding thread:

Viriyah Insurance:

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and

very sorry for late reply. Regarding to your question, please be

inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of

America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car

in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an

accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.

Just be aware that if you're living here legally a Thai DL is required. How they will react to a big accident with the driver not being in possession of a valid DL:is anybody's guess.

But you are opening yourself up to can of worms.

[impulse]

Many are constantly stating here that Thai insurance companies will not cover a driver if he/she has only a home country licence, and not a Thai licence. That is simply not true. I have Viriyah insurance (first class) as well. I received a similar reply from them as was posted in the preceding thread:

Viriyah Insurance:

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and

very sorry for late reply. Regarding to your question, please be

inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of

America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car

in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an

accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.

I dare you to take that email to court if they deny millions in coverage, to try to prove they claimed you're covered.

I wouldn't trust that I'm covered based on that poorly composed blurb.

Maybe so, maybe not. But I'd want something definitive, with reasonable grammar, corroborated by someone that's not likely to be an adversary in any lawsuit. I'd also want them to include wording to the effect that, though Thai law requires I have a Thai DL to drive after 90 days in country, the insurance company specifically allows coverage- though I'm driving in violation of Thai law.

They've got better lawyers than I can afford.

[NomadJoe]

Many are constantly stating here that Thai insurance companies will not cover a driver if he/she has only a home country licence, and not a Thai licence. That is simply not true. I have Viriyah insurance (first class) as well. I received a similar reply from them as was posted in the preceding thread:

Viriyah Insurance:

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and

very sorry for late reply. Regarding to your question, please be

inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of

America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car

in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an

accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.

I dare you to take that email to court if they deny millions in coverage, to try to prove they claimed you're covered.

I wouldn't trust that I'm covered based on that poorly composed blurb.

Maybe so, maybe not. But I'd want something definitive, with reasonable grammar, corroborated by someone that's not likely to be an adversary in any lawsuit. I'd also want them to include wording to the effect that, though Thai law requires I have a Thai DL to drive after 90 days in country, the insurance company specifically allows coverage- though I'm in breach of Thai law.

They've got better lawyers than I can afford.

You could do just that, if it ever came to that, which it wouldn't. Most definitely admissible.

Anyway, it's the small print in the policy you need to look at and the small print simply says you must be "legally licensed to drive".It says nothing about IDP's or Thai licenses.

[stevenl]

You could do just that, if it ever came to that, which it wouldn't. Most definitely admissible.

Anyway, it's the small print in the policy you need to look at and the small print simply says you must be "legally licensed to drive".It says nothing about IDP's or Thai licenses.

It says that because they can not update the policy if a law changes, and they don't want to get caught out on legallities.

Legally licensed to drive would mean in possession of a valid DL, and somebody living here and driving on a foreign DL, with our without IDP, is not legally licensed to drive.

[impulse]

You could do just that, if it ever came to that, which it wouldn't. Most definitely admissible.

Anyway, it's the small print in the policy you need to look at and the small print simply says you must be "legally licensed to drive".It says nothing about IDP's or Thai licenses.

You may be right. But you have more confidence than me in insurance companies paying out when they can find any excuse not to pay out.

The answers are in the fine print, along with the laws of the country and locality where the policy is written. Which is exactly why lawyers get involved.

And along with the answers in the fine print, will be a clause stating the contract (policy) cannot be changed except in writing, and signed by an officer of the company. Accepting the cryptic, almost illegible message from a low ranking functionary on a matter this high impact, is just asking to be disappointed when you need the insurance coverage most.

Call me a scaredy cat, but I got a TDL before I hit the road, even in my old beater vehicle.

[NomadJoe]

You could do just that, if it ever came to that, which it wouldn't. Most definitely admissible.

Anyway, it's the small print in the policy you need to look at and the small print simply says you must be "legally licensed to drive".It says nothing about IDP's or Thai licenses.

It says that because they can not update the policy if a law changes, and they don't want to get caught out on legallities.

Legally licensed to drive would mean in possession of a valid DL, and somebody living here and driving on a foreign DL, with our without IDP, is not legally licensed to drive.

Correct. I assumed everyone understands that for people that live here you need a Thai DL. I don't know what bubbas immigration status is. Apparently you do. I also don't know what wording he used when he asked Viriyah about licensing. When I did, I specifically asked whether as a tourist, a drivers license from home was acceptable because I already know that if you are a resident you need a Thai DL. Still, it seems that if you live here the insurance companies may still cover you driving on a home license, but I wouldn't count on it.

[stevenl]

You could do just that, if it ever came to that, which it wouldn't. Most definitely admissible.

Anyway, it's the small print in the policy you need to look at and the small print simply says you must be "legally licensed to drive".It says nothing about IDP's or Thai licenses.

It says that because they can not update the policy if a law changes, and they don't want to get caught out on legallities.

Legally licensed to drive would mean in possession of a valid DL, and somebody living here and driving on a foreign DL, with our without IDP, is not legally licensed to drive.

Correct. I assumed everyone understands that for people that live here you need a Thai DL. I don't know what impules' immigration status is. Apparently you do. I also don't know what wording he used when he asked Viriyah about licensing. When I did, I specifically asked whether as a tourist, a drivers license from home was acceptable because I already know that if you are a resident you need a Thai DL. Still, it seems that if you live here the insurance companies may still cover you driving on a home license, but I wouldn't count on it.

Impulse did not ask ask anything, but bubba did. And in the answer is no mention at all of tourist vs resident.

I don't know why I would need his status as my comment was 'Just be aware that if you're living here legally a Thai DL is required.' After that I said 'How they will react to a big accident with the driver not being in possession of a valid DL:is anybody's guess. But you are opening yourself up to can of worms.'

So it seems we agree.

[NomadJoe]

You could do just that, if it ever came to that, which it wouldn't. Most definitely admissible.

Anyway, it's the small print in the policy you need to look at and the small print simply says you must be "legally licensed to drive".It says nothing about IDP's or Thai licenses.

You may be right. But you have more confidence than me in insurance companies paying out when they can find any excuse not to pay out.

The answers are in the fine print, along with the laws of the country and locality where the policy is written. Which is exactly why lawyers get involved.

And along with the answers in the fine print, will be a clause stating the contract (policy) cannot be changed except in writing, and signed by an officer of the company. Accepting the cryptic, almost illegible message from a low ranking functionary on a matter this high impact, is just asking to be disappointed when you need the insurance coverage most.

Call me a scaredy cat, but I got a TDL before I hit the road, even in my old beater vehicle.

I have told you what the fine print says. I read it. The question is simple. What does "legally licensed to drive" mean in the eyes of the insurance company. The people handling a claims are the same "low ranking functionaries" that reply to the emails. The response both Bubba and I got, which are identical template responses, indicates some thaught has gone into the answer, and it just so happens it is in line with the law, police, and other rental companies and insurance. Note the response I got from Bupa insurance was signed by an "Executive manager at headquarters." hardly a "low level functionary."

It's clear they will cover on your home license when a tourists with no IDP. If you are a resident then it's still likely, but since we know you are not legal, there is always a chance they won't. In my experience they don't even ask for a DL. One thing is for sure, an IDP doesn't change anything.

[watcharacters]

A similar issue is whether my tgf can learn to drive in my car. It's a catch 22, she can't drive until she gets a licence but can't get a licence unless she learns to drive. How do thais learn to drive? is there no provisional licence like we have in the UK.

.

Sincerely this is a good situation where driving school works perfectly.

I did i and feel it was worth every baht I paid.

And I'n happy with how my wife drives as well.

[cooked]

So if I present an Urdu driving license to a Thai policeman he will legally be able to acknowledge it? He won't be able to read whether it is a cat license or a fishing permit. Or indeed license for driving a tractor. At least with a IDL he will be able to take a stab at its meaning.

An International Driving Permit (IDP) is an identity document that allows the holder to drive a private motor vehicle in any country that recognizes IDPs. To be valid, the IDP must be accompanied by a valid driver's license. -Wikipedis.

[stevenl]

So if I present an Urdu driving license to a Thai policeman he will legally be able to acknowledge it? He won't be able to read whether it is a cat license or a fishing permit. Or indeed license for driving a tractor

2) It is in English.