Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[JS82]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:03 PM, Naiyana said:

The officer who was in charge called me. There was no such thing as a letter. I went to CW more than a month after I got the news of my approval. It was last year. That 7 day thing is for the Alien book at the police station after the PR book.

Yes you are right, the immigration called to inform. 

How about the tabien baan registration, did you have to go in for an interview in the second time in district office  or amphor to get name registered and pink ID?

[Bangel72]

9 minutes ago, JS82 said:

Hello Sir, 

 

How did it go afterwards? 

I am now in the stage of entering my name into friend's tabien baan. The whole PR process is like jumping through hoops. 

At the district office, the handling guy told that he needed to confirm with immigration and police, then he will ask me back for an interview later(donot know when...).  And I had to leave with uncertainty. I hope it will not be too long for them to come back to me.  

I had a similar problem at a northern office, point blank refusal, "its impossible for farang to go on Blue book" they said. In other cases where they knew nothing of PR I had to call CW and put them on the phone to the person who knew nothing about it but they would not even consider talking with CW direct.

 

I was put on yellow book but they would not put me on blue. Never needed to show the blue book ever to anyone at that time thankfully, its not my house and I just stayed there, I did not own the book and it owners may not have been available to give me it had I needed it even if they did. Police giving the red book were happy with yellow book entry. Hard to tell what the blue book entry is used for and by whom compared to a yellow book that shows place of residence.

 

In the end Bangkok seemed much easier option, finding someone to put me on their book but again I've no access to their book regardless.

 

 

 

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

I had a similar problem at a northern office, point blank refusal, "its impossible for farang to go on Blue book" they said. In other cases where they knew nothing of PR I had to call CW and put them on the phone to the person who knew nothing about it but they would not even consider talking with CW direct.

 

I was put on yellow book but they would not put me on blue. Never needed to show the blue book ever to anyone at that time thankfully, its not my house and I just stayed there, I did not own the book and it owners may not have been available to give me it had I needed it even if they did. Police giving the red book were happy with yellow book entry. Hard to tell what the blue book entry is used for and by whom compared to a yellow book that shows place of residence.

 

In the end Bangkok seemed much easier option, finding someone to put me on their book but again I've no access to their book regardless.

 

 

 

I got PR 27 years ago. At the big amphur office the man asked 'where's your TB book?

I expained 'I don't have one.'

 

Company driver who was taking me everywhere that day (speaks goo english), stepped forward and offered his TB sheets* with "can his name go in my TB sheets?"

Amphur guy took the sheets, had a one second look at the first page then recorded my details on the sheets and handed them back to the driver. No questions asked.  

 

*TB sheets - this was before the computerized TB books came into existence. TB for each dwelling was several sheets of extra long landscape oriented loose pages with staple. 

 

[Naiyana]

22 hours ago, JS82 said:

Yes you are right, the immigration called to inform. 

How about the tabien baan registration, did you have to go in for an interview in the second time in district office  or amphor to get name registered and pink ID?

Yes. As soon as I got the Alien book from the police I went to the district office with all needed documents. Then it took another 2 months to add my name in my friend’s blue book and get the pink card. A lot of additional documents given. 

[Naiyana]

22 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

I had a similar problem at a northern office, point blank refusal, "its impossible for farang to go on Blue book" they said. In other cases where they knew nothing of PR I had to call CW and put them on the phone to the person who knew nothing about it but they would not even consider talking with CW direct.

 

I was put on yellow book but they would not put me on blue. Never needed to show the blue book ever to anyone at that time thankfully, its not my house and I just stayed there, I did not own the book and it owners may not have been available to give me it had I needed it even if they did. Police giving the red book were happy with yellow book entry. Hard to tell what the blue book entry is used for and by whom compared to a yellow book that shows place of residence.

 

In the end Bangkok seemed much easier option, finding someone to put me on their book but again I've no access to their book regardless.

 

 

 

A confusing and painful rule for those who do not own a property here. I added my name under my friend’s Blue Book. She did the PR with me so it was easier for me - she was with me at the District office with her original Blue Book to do her own process.
 

Now I’m facing inconveniences because the Blue Book isn’t mine. I went to Transport office in Bang Chak to do my driver’s license. I presented my pink card and PR book hoping that they could replace the ‘Certificate of Residence’ requirement. But the officer said I also need to bring the original Blue Book. I didn’t want to ask my friend so I went to the embassy and got the certificate from there instead. I’m going back in few weeks to try again. I really hope that my ID number is used in my drivers license instead of my passport number so I don’t need to bother with passport change but no clue if my request would be accepted without the original Blue Book.

 

I live in another province while my PR address is in Bangkok. I’m trying to register my vehicle in the province I’m living in. But the agent who is helping the process could not understand why I had to register it in the province while my address is in Bangkok. Other foreigners simply go to the immigration and get the Certificate of Residence with the address in the province thanks to their TM30. Me I don’t do the TM30 anymore. So the embassy again. At least my embassy was kind enough to issue the certificate of residence in both addresses.
 

I’d love to have a Yellow Book with my address in the province, that would make my life easier. Now my friend who allowed me to be under her Blue Book is thinking about selling her house. Then what would happen to me? Would it be a problem if I’m not under any Blue Book? Would anyone even care? Would the Blue Book be required at the time of Alien Book renewal? Who knows.

 

I plan to build a house here and have my own Blue Book one day. Will be a struggle to convince Tessaban to add my name under the Blue Book, sure they’ve never heard of PR. Police office here already told me they’ve never heard of the Alien Book. 

 

No benefits of PR for me so far since I’m employed, my company was taking care of the visa, 90 days reporting and all anyway. I’m still glad that I did it - it makes me feel more home in Thailand. That’s it. Ahahaha. 

[cocoonclub]

Moving abroad as PR?

 

Is it possible to move abroad (leave Thailand) as a PR as long as you get your re-entry endorsement and don’t stay abroad for more than a year a time? Or would there be an issue with that house registration or simply because you’re not really a permanent resident anymore? 

[sas_cars]

3 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

Moving abroad as PR?

 

Is it possible to move abroad (leave Thailand) as a PR as long as you get your re-entry endorsement and don’t stay abroad for more than a year a time? Or would there be an issue with that house registration or simply because you’re not really a permanent resident anymore? 

No issues whatsoever, just keep returning before your re entry permit expiring day, get a new re entry for another year and leave again. You can do it all your life.

[cocoonclub]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:07 PM, anthonyT said:

Hi Cocoonclub,

 

I am from the same class as you and was thinking of dropping a similar message as did not hear anything either.

 

Did though, receive on the day of my 1st extension, 3 of the same forms for future extensions of our "under review visa" for the next visits. So it sounded like an 1 year and half minimum, before hearing anything.

Ant.

FYI, I received a call from my IB officer that my application was successful and that I can make an appointment to pay the 192k fee and pick up the PR book. It seems other applicants also received a call as she mentioned that the slots to pick up the PR book for next week are filling up. 

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, cocoonclub said:

FYI, I received a call from my IB officer that my application was successful and that I can make an appointment to pay the 192k fee and pick up the PR book. It seems other applicants also received a call as she mentioned that the slots to pick up the PR book for next week are filling up. 

Congrats.

[cocoonclub]

Question :

I learned that the alien registration (red book) with the police has to be renewed every 5 years. What happens if you fail to do that? 
 

I am just thinking ahead if either of the following happens:

1. Break up with gf so I can’t be registered on her house book anymore 

2. Moving abroad to live abroad (while returning to Thailand once a year) 

[Michael Hare]

2 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

Question :

I learned that the alien registration (red book) with the police has to be renewed every 5 years. What happens if you fail to do that? 
 

I am just thinking ahead if either of the following happens:

1. Break up with gf so I can’t be registered on her house book anymore 

2. Moving abroad to live abroad (while returning to Thailand once a year) 

If you fail to renew your PR once every five years in the red book, you will no longer have PR. 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

If you fail to renew your PR once every five years in the red book, you will no longer have PR. 

 

Last time I did the update of the red police registration book was about 2 yars ago at the police centre in the city centre in Chiang Mai. I was 77 years old, my Thai adult son took me to the police centre, as always.

 

The RTP guy who takes care of this subject speaks good English, very friendly and approachable.

 

My son always trying to get more understanding of my needs re PR book, red book, tb book etc., asked the RTP guy "Is it possible to get an update for 10 years?" 

 

His response was "Sorry the maximum is 5 years, but we know there's a few very old farang who forget to do the update, it's not a problem".

 

 

[cocoonclub]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

If you fail to renew your PR once every five years in the red book, you will no longer have PR. 

 

1) You write “renew your PR”. Is this really a renewal of PR or just a renewal of the alien registration? 
 

2) Do they require the house book for that 5 year update?

 

I’m currently only my gf’s condo but you never know how things go… should I ever break up with her and leave Thailand, I guess I could also kiss goodbye to the PR then?

[onthemoon]

5 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

Question :

I learned that the alien registration (red book) with the police has to be renewed every 5 years. What happens if you fail to do that? 
 

I am just thinking ahead if either of the following happens:

1. Break up with gf so I can’t be registered on her house book anymore 

2. Moving abroad to live abroad (while returning to Thailand once a year) 

The red book which you have to renew every 5 years at the police station, right? I was a year late once, I had to pay a fine of THB 400. That was all.

 

However, you need an address in Thailand (and a blue tabien bahn) in any case. Otherwise you cannot renew your blue or white book, which you renew at Chaeng Wattana, and you lose PR status.

[cocoonclub]

28 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

However, you need an address in Thailand (and a blue tabien bahn) in any case. Otherwise you cannot renew your blue or white book, which you renew at Chaeng Wattana, and you lose PR status.

I wasn’t even aware that you need to renew the PR (I assume that’s the blue book you’re referring to). When do I have to renew the PR book? It wasn’t  written in the instruction sheet that the IB gave me (it only said I need to get endorsement and re-entry permit before leaving to keep my PR valid). 
 

And what’s the white book? Will I get that from the district office/house registration? So far I only have:

 

- PR book (blue book)

- Alien registration (red book) 

 

 

  

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

55 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

1) You write “renew your PR”. Is this really a renewal of PR or just a renewal of the alien registration? 
 

2) Do they require the house book for that 5 year update?

 

I’m currently only my gf’s condo but you never know how things go… should I ever break up with her and leave Thailand, I guess I could also kiss goodbye to the PR then?

In my case, the first year of registration in the police red book was for only one year. After the first year, the next and all subsequent reports were at 5-year intervals.

 

You will need the red police book in order to obtain a re-entry permit in your passport and an endorsement in your residence certificate before you leave the country if you wish to keep your PR.

 

I believe I have provided my blue house book at each update of my red police book. I think they want evidence that you're still registered at the address they have on file and in your red police book.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

8 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

I wasn’t even aware that you need to renew the PR (I assume that’s the blue book you’re referring to). When do I have to renew the PR book? It wasn’t  written in the instruction sheet that the IB gave me (it only said I need to get endorsement and re-entry permit before leaving to keep my PR valid). 
 

And what’s the white book? Will I get that from the district office/house registration? So far I only have:

 

- PR book (blue book)

- Alien registration (red book) 

 

 

  

The white book is TM17 and replaces your TM16 (blue certificate of residence issued by immigration) when it gets full.

 

You do not renew PR with immigration. It is permanent unless revoked or abandoned.

 

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

The red book which you have to renew every 5 years at the police station, right? I was a year late once, I had to pay a fine of THB 400. That was all.

 

However, you need an address in Thailand (and a blue tabien bahn) in any case. Otherwise you cannot renew your blue or white book, which you renew at Chaeng Wattana, and you lose PR status.

1. POLICE REGISTRATION RED BOOK:

The police RED registration book is a a police matter only. It's purpose is to ensure the police have some record of PR holders in their 'region', their address, etc., nothing more, and the holders photo is renewed every 5 years. 

 

In other words the police RED registration book is not an immigration matter. 

 

An update in your RED police registration book is an 'update' only so that the police have records (possibly years out of date) of foreigners with PR who live in that police zone.

 

As said above this is police administration stuff   -   it's not an Immigration Bureau matter. 

 

2. DARK BLUE OR WHITE PR BOOK;

Dark blue cover PR book is issued when your are approved for PR. When the dark blue cover book is full (full of Immigration departure and arrval stamps and some exit/re-entry stamps), the PR book must be replaced at an immigration office and they give you a replacement book (this is not a renewal action, it's an admin matter only; replacing a full book). The cover of the replacement PR book is white: 

• Change from dark blue cover book to white cover book is NOT controlled or subject to any timeline.
• It's replaced when the old book is full. Nothing more.
• When your PR book is full and you go to immigration to get a new PR book, this doesn't mean your actual PR status is renewed. Just the book is replaced because it's full of stamps. Also, there is no interview, just a mechanical reissue of the full PR book.
• Once initially approved, your PR status is for lifetime.
• YES there's some misuse of words when you get an exit/re-entry stamp in your PR book and in your passport. The immigration staff (giving you the new exit/re-entry stamp get a number for your exit/re-entry stamp, and some folks believe you have in fact had your PR status renewed). As said, PR (Certificate of Residence) is for lifetime and never needs renewal.

 

 

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

I wasn’t even aware that you need to renew the PR (I assume that’s the blue book you’re referring to). When do I have to renew the PR book? It wasn’t  written in the instruction sheet that the IB gave me (it only said I need to get endorsement and re-entry permit before leaving to keep my PR valid). 
 

And what’s the white book? Will I get that from the district office/house registration? So far I only have:

 

- PR book (blue book)

- Alien registration (red book) 

 

 

  

Please read 2 later messages in this thread, should give you answers to your points.

If needed please send a PM.  

[jayboy]

39 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I believe I have provided my blue house book at each update of my red police book.

I've always taken it along at the time of five year renewal but it's never been asked for.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I've always taken it along at the time of five year renewal but it's never been asked for.

Yes, the red book update at the police station is a fairly casual matter. I have always taken the blue house book, but I don't recall whether it was actually scrutinized. Better to take and not need than omit and have to make a second trip if they ask.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Yes, the red book update at the police station is a fairly casual matter. I have always taken the blue house book, but I don't recall whether it was actually scrutinized. Better to take and not need than omit and have to make a second trip if they ask.

I suspect that some of the various agencies* want to help to see that overall folks are keeping these various 'records' up to date, and nothing more.

 

* Agencies:

Immigration Bureau, Royal Thai polce, Tabien Baan administered by local Amphur offices. And all three stand alone.  

[onthemoon]

14 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

I wasn’t even aware that you need to renew the PR (I assume that’s the blue book you’re referring to). When do I have to renew the PR book? It wasn’t  written in the instruction sheet that the IB gave me (it only said I need to get endorsement and re-entry permit before leaving to keep my PR valid). 
 

And what’s the white book? Will I get that from the district office/house registration? So far I only have:

 

- PR book (blue book)

- Alien registration (red book) 

Blue Book: You need to renew/replace it when it's full. I travel a lot, so I get a lot of exit and entry stamps, including the full-page "Endorsement" (re-entry permit) every year. Need a new book every few years. Only the first one is blue, the replacement books are white.

 

Don't forget to bring this PR book (whether blue or white) along with you when you travel! You have to show it together with your passport upon leaving and entering the country. And you need to have an immigrant visa in your passport and this endorsement in your PR book. Otherwise, your "Permanent" Residency will be cancelled the moment you return to Thailand. 

[cocoonclub]

37 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

And you need to have an immigrant visa in your passport and this endorsement in your PR book. Otherwise, your "Permanent" Residency will be cancelled

Wait, I thought the PR itself is a visa and its purpose is für you to not need a visa anymore (ie., a permanent visa)? What’s the purpose of having PR if you still need to get a separate visa? This doesn’t make sense to me…

 

 

 

[cocoonclub]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

In other words the police RED registration book is not an immigration matter. 

 

An update in your RED police registration book is an 'update' only so that the police have records (possibly years out of date) of foreigners with PR who live in that police zone.

According to another poster above, IB checks the red book when you get an endorsement/re-entry permit. Is that the case?

 

I don’t have an issue telling the police where I live, I’m just concerned what would happen should I not have a Thai let me on his house registration, or should I ever decide to leave the country permanently (and only return a few times per year). If above information is correct, would I lose my PR because I couldn’t any longer get the red book registration and therefore no endorsement and reentry permit?

 

Or would it be possible to either get the red book on a foreign address or get the endorsement and reentry permit without the updated red book?

 

 

[Bubbha]

1 hour ago, cocoonclub said:

Wait, I thought the PR itself is a visa and its purpose is für you to not need a visa anymore (ie., a permanent visa)? What’s the purpose of having PR if you still need to get a separate visa? This doesn’t make sense to me…

PR is a permit to stay indefinitely. You need a non-quota immigrant visa and re-entry permit if you want to leave the country.

Think of it this way -----> Once you obtained PR, you are no longer "on the clock" while in Thailand (you never need to leave). However, when you leave Thailand, the non-quota immigrant visa and re-entry permit start a 365 day timer and you need to return before that one year period or lose your PR.

 

 

1 hour ago, cocoonclub said:

I’m just concerned what would happen should I not have a Thai let me on his house registration

If you're not listed on a household registration, you're violating the terms of agreement for PR. The house registration is a direct link to the district police station that is charged with oversight of your residency in Thailand (Red Book).  If you want to leave the country, and come back at least once per year, you need to sort out a sustainable long term solution for household registration. 

 

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, Bubbha said:

PR is a permit to stay indefinitely. You need a non-quota immigrant visa and re-entry permit if you want to leave the country.

Think of it this way -----> Once you obtained PR, you are no longer "on the clock" while in Thailand (you never need to leave). However, when you leave Thailand, the non-quota immigrant visa and re-entry permit start a 365 day timer and you need to return before that one year period or lose your PR.

 

 

If you're not listed on a household registration, you're violating the terms of agreement for PR. The house registration is a direct link to the district police station that is charged with oversight of your residency in Thailand (Red Book).  If you want to leave the country, and come back at least once per year, you need to sort out a sustainable long term solution for household registration. 

 

You definitely have to resolve this issue. If you can't find any Thai (or foreigner with PR) willing to put you in his TB, then you must buy a condo of your own somewhere in the Kingdom. 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Bubbha said:

PR is a permit to stay indefinitely. You need a non-quota immigrant visa and re-entry permit if you want to leave the country.

Think of it this way -----> Once you obtained PR, you are no longer "on the clock" while in Thailand (you never need to leave). However, when you leave Thailand, the non-quota immigrant visa and re-entry permit start a 365 day timer and you need to return before that one year period or lose your PR.

 

 

If you're not listed on a household registration, you're violating the terms of agreement for PR. The house registration is a direct link to the district police station that is charged with oversight of your residency in Thailand (Red Book).  If you want to leave the country, and come back at least once per year, you need to sort out a sustainable long term solution for household registration. 

 

And note, you can be shown in any Tabien Baan book.

 

It's NOT required / NOT necessary that you have some personal relationship with the owner of the house where you reside or with the person who is shown as  the 'house master' in the front of the book.

 

As above, you can be in any Tabien Baan book in Thailand. 

 

[onthemoon]

4 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

Wait, I thought the PR itself is a visa and its purpose is für you to not need a visa anymore (ie., a permanent visa)? What’s the purpose of having PR if you still need to get a separate visa? This doesn’t make sense to me…

Bubbha already answered this: The "P" in "PR" does not mean it's permanent; you lose it if you leave the country without visa+endorsement.

 

On the other hand, they take the "R" seriously. So, if you don't reside in Thailand (with a tabien bahn to prove it) you lose your PR.

[scorecard]

37 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

Bubbha already answered this: The "P" in "PR" does not mean it's permanent; you lose it if you leave the country without visa+endorsement.

 

On the other hand, they take the "R" seriously. So, if you don't reside in Thailand (with a tabien bahn to prove it) you lose your PR.

Can you please share some specifics of 'losing PR if you don't have your name in a Tabien Baan'.