Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[pgrahmm]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

Hey - whistle/time out ....... I've just picked up on something very important to this conversation.........you found Doritos in Thailand?????? Where?

[tmcard]

<snip. removed deleted post>

People Moving back to the States , experience sticker shock because they have being away for so long, and their income structure has not adjusted to the times .

Clearly there are things in Thailand that are less expensive than the US , housing is one, some foods is an other, but there are things in the US that are less expensive than Thailand. Cars is one that quickly comes to mind,clothing and consumer goods is an other.

But one must keep in mind that, if one has resolved his housing issue, and has taken proper steps through his or her life to insure a proper retirement income, one can retire in the US quite comfortable,

A Nice house can be had in Florida for about 4 million baht, low property taxes guarantied not to rise more than 3% per year . proper social support for the elderly. reliable internet, water,and electricity.With a retirement income of 60,000 baht one can live very nicely there.

Having said that, I should also say that we love Thailand, and we still like to spend a considerable amount of time there,

But as I get older and begin to face some of the issues associated with getting older, I am begging to also re-asses my plan to fully retire there.

A vacation home there and a few months to get my Thailand fix will suffice in my case.

Well, I agree there are many great things in the US, we just need to know as individuals what is most important to us. If internet ( do not have a problem in Thailand)is the reason for coming to Thailand, maybe the wrong place. Most retired people are living in Thailand for the social life, and that is a fact! Elderly in the western society are living in general a sad life, since we are all so busy with our self's. Been traveling in over 70 countries, living for years in 5 different countries, and my conclusion is that the western world has many things to learn from what we call the "THIRD World" and different cultures. I guess we are now best on looking down on people, one of our western problems.

[bonobo]

As lovetotravel mentioned in an earlier post:

Apples and oranges. It'd be easy to compare that same spread in the US. Malibu to Gulf Shores.

Compare beach properties in Malibu to beach properties in Alabama. Huge difference. Need to compare apples to apples.

Having vacationed in Gulf Shores,AL many times, personally I would rather live there than Malibo,CA. For me the bad part of living in Malibu is that it is in the state of CA. Would not live there if one was to pay me. The only bad part about living on the TX/LA/MS/AL/FL gulf coast are the hurricanes. I have been to Malibu on a couple of occasions, and found it to be very nice except for the fact, that it is in CA. Being from the south, if I was ever to move back to the states, Gulf Shores would be in the running.

You said that we were not talking, apples to apples, and I would agree with you on that. For me quality of life in Malibu would be much lower, hence the apples to oranges.

Gulf Shores, aka the Redneck Riviera is one of the best kept secrets in the US. Great place. Also, the greatest quarterback in the history of football, Kenny "The Snake" Stabler, lived there, maybe still does.

Apropos of nothing, I went out with some Marines one day, and one guy was in a very bad mood. His ex-wife had just gotten married to Stabler that day. She dumped her husband when Stabler came sniffing around, and this was right after the divorce became final.

[animatic]

I agree 100% I went back for the first time in nearly 10 years,

and sticker shock was also my exact thoughts.

I showed the wife where I am from and visited many friends,

The whole north eastern corner was ridiculously expensive.

I didn't check out NYC rents but one friends apartment

Is worth 15 times what he paid for it than ten years ago

and even after the real estate mortgage crash.

My wife was so totally for moving to USA.

Till she checked out spring temperatures and prices.

Now almost never mentions the subject....

[tmcard]

-snip- Their garbage collection bills and power bills would make your eyes water compared to here.

It's not the garbage collection in the US. It's the safe, proper handling of the garbage after they pick it up that costs money.

There's a news item running here right now about how horrid and polluting, even of ground water not to mention air, that the landfills are in Thailand.

In the US all would be sorted into recyclables, much would be burned cleanly, and what couldn't be burned would be put into an engineered landfill that was sealed so it couldn't leak into ground water. As new garbage was put into it it would immediately be covered by earth to assure no air pollution or fires.

Have you seen a velocity separator? I'll bet Thailand hasn't.

Power bills. First, the Thai government subsidizes them meaning you pay for them somewhere else, perhaps in the price of cheese or VAT or import taxes or other taxes. Next the people up North such as near Lampang are getting blasted with pollution from coal burning. In the US all the would come out of the "smoke stacks" would be steam.

If you want to pay 3rd world prices and live literally in filth that's hazardous to your health, up to you. I don't think you're living like a Thai in the US or your costs would be similar. I'm convince the US is the cheapest 1st world country there is to live in. Maybe by a wide margin.

Right ! Looks like you haven't been around much !

[IAMSOBAD]

OT...Anyone check out moving costs from Thailand to USA. They are crazy high.

Any thoughts to save a few bucks moving to Florida?

[JAFO]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

Hey - whistle/time out ....... I've just picked up on something very important to this conversation.........you found Doritos in Thailand?????? Where?

Villa and Topps Market has them.

[sirineou]

<snip. removed deleted post>

People Moving back to the States , experience sticker shock because they have being away for so long, and their income structure has not adjusted to the times .

Clearly there are things in Thailand that are less expensive than the US , housing is one, some foods is an other, but there are things in the US that are less expensive than Thailand. Cars is one that quickly comes to mind,clothing and consumer goods is an other.

But one must keep in mind that, if one has resolved his housing issue, and has taken proper steps through his or her life to insure a proper retirement income, one can retire in the US quite comfortable,

A Nice house can be had in Florida for about 4 million baht, low property taxes guarantied not to rise more than 3% per year . proper social support for the elderly. reliable internet, water,and electricity.With a retirement income of 60,000 baht one can live very nicely there.

Having said that, I should also say that we love Thailand, and we still like to spend a considerable amount of time there,

But as I get older and begin to face some of the issues associated with getting older, I am begging to also re-asses my plan to fully retire there.

A vacation home there and a few months to get my Thailand fix will suffice in my case.

You might want to re evaluate your information on property taxes in Florida with a look at the "Homestead Exemption."

" the homestead exemption itself entitles most homeowners to a deduction of $25,000 off of their property’s assessed value, which can result in several hundred dollars in tax savings. If your home is worth at least $75,000, you will receive an additional $25,000 deduction from your assessed value, although that additional deduction will not apply to school tax levies. Once you establish your right to a basic homestead exemption on your property, you may also qualify for additional homestead exemptions if you are over 65 years old or have a disability. But perhaps most importantly, receipt of a homestead exemption means that, pursuant to the Save Our Homes Amendment to the Florida Constitution, the assessed value of your homestead property cannot increase more than 3% per year or the percent change in the Consumer Price Index.

[sirineou]

<snip. removed deleted post>

People Moving back to the States , experience sticker shock because they have being away for so long, and their income structure has not adjusted to the times .

Clearly there are things in Thailand that are less expensive than the US , housing is one, some foods is an other, but there are things in the US that are less expensive than Thailand. Cars is one that quickly comes to mind,clothing and consumer goods is an other.

But one must keep in mind that, if one has resolved his housing issue, and has taken proper steps through his or her life to insure a proper retirement income, one can retire in the US quite comfortable,

A Nice house can be had in Florida for about 4 million baht, low property taxes guarantied not to rise more than 3% per year . proper social support for the elderly. reliable internet, water,and electricity.With a retirement income of 60,000 baht one can live very nicely there.

Having said that, I should also say that we love Thailand, and we still like to spend a considerable amount of time there,

But as I get older and begin to face some of the issues associated with getting older, I am begging to also re-asses my plan to fully retire there.

A vacation home there and a few months to get my Thailand fix will suffice in my case.

Well, I agree there are many great things in the US, we just need to know as individuals what is most important to us. If internet ( do not have a problem in Thailand)is the reason for coming to Thailand, maybe the wrong place. Most retired people are living in Thailand for the social life, and that is a fact! Elderly in the western society are living in general a sad life, since we are all so busy with our self's. Been traveling in over 70 countries, living for years in 5 different countries, and my conclusion is that the western world has many things to learn from what we call the "THIRD World" and different cultures. I guess we are now best on looking down on people, one of our western problems.

I dont believe that internet service is a reason to or not to move to Thailand. I mention that as an example of infrastructure that is not is not up to par with the west, and in reference challenges that one would have to face as one gets older. I constantly read threads in this forum about internet problems, water problems electric outages, road problems, visa problems, bank problems, etc etc, excuse me for not wanting to deal with them when I am seventy or eighty.

Most elderly people I know have health issues. I hope when I get that old I dont but being realistic, there is a good chance that I also will. My medical insurance coverage is in the US and is not transferable to Thailand.

What do you guys do for medical coverage when you are in your 70s and 80s?

As far as elderly people living a sad life in the west is concern, I would respectfully disagree. Though some may, if one has made proper contingency plans , has their house paid off, and between Social Security and other pensions have an income of about $2,000 per month, there is no reason for any one to have a sad life.

This is my opinion, Am I wrong? I hope I am as Like Thailand .

[beachproperty]

Obviously there are Pro's and Con's in the debate of Thailand vs USA. Both have plus and minus's as pointed out in this thread.

As rightly pointed out many times ....it's a personal decision.

As for me I am in Thailand. One must adjust and adapt to whatever the enviroment they live in (many do quite well, while others ...unable to adapt become miserable and do nothing but complain ....Both in Thailand and USA.)

Sirinou...you make many good points ..Medical coverage is important....In the States I had Kaiser, $800/month 10 years ago ....with a co-pay for doctor visits and medicines which added another $500/year. Don't know what it is today under Obamacare but am told its gone UP not down. I'm self insured here in Thailand and so have saved $9600 a year ($96,000 which has been invested and growing yearly). My total medical expense over the last 10 years has been approx $4000 ...AND that includes the family! (less than what I would've paid for the deductibles payable in the US)

So personally for me .....Thailand with all its drawbacks (as pointed out by many but which are NOT drawbacks to me) is a GREAT country to live in! I, for one, LOVE living in Thailand!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hey - whistle/time out ....... I've just picked up on something very important to this conversation.........you found Doritos in Thailand?????? Where?

Villa and Topps Market has them.

Yes, and there are at least two different countries of origin/manufacture.

The Taiwan produced varieties, with have a big "export" label sticker on them, run about 90 baht for an 8 oz bag.

The other version, not sure if they're from the U.S. or elsewhere, seem to run about double that price.

My local Villa used to stock the less expensive Taiwan variety, but lately, they seem to have shifted just to the double price variety.

BTW, Foodland also stocks the Taiwan variety. I quite like their Smokey BBQ flavor variety.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As far as elderly people living a sad life in the west is concern, I would respectfully disagree. Though some may, if one has made proper contingency plans , has their house paid off, and between Social Security and other pensions have an income of about $2,000 per month, there is no reason for any one to have a sad life.

This is my opinion, Am I wrong? I hope I am as Like Thailand .

You are wrong,

You forgot the qualification "for a single man".

If you are married in the USA your wife can put a spanner in any plans you have, at any time.

[mesquite]

As lovetotravel mentioned in an earlier post:

Apples and oranges. It'd be easy to compare that same spread in the US. Malibu to Gulf Shores.

Compare beach properties in Malibu to beach properties in Alabama. Huge difference. Need to compare apples to apples.

Having vacationed in Gulf Shores,AL many times, personally I would rather live there than Malibo,CA. For me the bad part of living in Malibu is that it is in the state of CA. Would not live there if one was to pay me. The only bad part about living on the TX/LA/MS/AL/FL gulf coast are the hurricanes. I have been to Malibu on a couple of occasions, and found it to be very nice except for the fact, that it is in CA. Being from the south, if I was ever to move back to the states, Gulf Shores would be in the running.

You said that we were not talking, apples to apples, and I would agree with you on that. For me quality of life in Malibu would be much lower, hence the apples to oranges.

Gulf Shores, aka the Redneck Riviera is one of the best kept secrets in the US. Great place. Also, the greatest quarterback in the history of football, Kenny "The Snake" Stabler, lived there, maybe still does.

Apropos of nothing, I went out with some Marines one day, and one guy was in a very bad mood. His ex-wife had just gotten married to Stabler that day. She dumped her husband when Stabler came sniffing around, and this was right after the divorce became final.

Wow, that would hurt. But your buddy probably had the last laugh if there was one. Stabler has gone downhill with his drinking and I wouldn't wish him on my worst ex gf, well maybe I would. Several DUI's, which he got out of, bankrupt and owing the IRS big money, he's definitely not the hero he once was.

Here's his most recent mugshot.

[TuskegeeBen]

As I posted before, I maintain two homes, one in Thailand, one in the US.

Both homes cost me about the same. The one in the US is three times the size as my Thai home and much, much better made. My US car was far less expensive and cost less to drive than my Thai cars. Western food is far better quality and cheaper. Customer service is far better, and when I need to hire someone for something, they do a better job. Traffic is reasonable. Television and internet are better, both in quality and choice (price is similar even if it is slightly less in the US.) Medical care is better. After just buying a new television and laptop today, they are cheaper than in Thailand. Food variety is much greater (as in food from different cuisines.)

In Thailand, "cheap" food is much, much cheaper. While I can eat in the US for $2, it is not nearly as good as a 30 baht lunch. Medical care is much, much cheaper. I don't go out much at night, but it is cheaper in Thailand. Hotels are cheaper. A maid does not cost an arm and a leg. For where I live in the US, I actually like the Thai weather better.

Overall, I spend slightly more in the US per month than when I am in Thailand, but my standard of living is higher, too. I could live much cheaper in Thailand if I wished, but I won't live like that, and that does drive up my Thai costs.

My point is that there are things "better" in one country, other things better in the other country. I like both, and I try to enjoy the best of both worlds when I am in each place.

but you admit you demand us style amenities in thailand.

I can tell you that I do. I didn't work hard all of my life just to go to a 3rd world country and live on 30,000 baht per month.

I know that I am probably "beating on a dead-horse" here. I am not a braggart, but, I manage to save 50K-baht/mo., from my retirement income, and live a quite comfortable life, w/ a beautiful Bang Suray beachview, for 30K-baht/mo. Don't you believe you're riding (unnecessarily) on the fast Ohio Turnpike, when you can travel, far more comfortably, on U.S. Route 20, instead, and save that money, to buy a really nice country-side meal, along the way? Hope you get the drift.

[craigt3365]

As far as elderly people living a sad life in the west is concern, I would respectfully disagree. Though some may, if one has made proper contingency plans , has their house paid off, and between Social Security and other pensions have an income of about $2,000 per month, there is no reason for any one to have a sad life.

This is my opinion, Am I wrong? I hope I am as Like Thailand .

You are wrong,

You forgot the qualification "for a single man".

If you are married in the USA your wife can put a spanner in any plans you have, at any time.

No different here if you are married. Anything acquired or earned during the marriage is split 50/50.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As far as elderly people living a sad life in the west is concern, I would respectfully disagree. Though some may, if one has made proper contingency plans , has their house paid off, and between Social Security and other pensions have an income of about $2,000 per month, there is no reason for any one to have a sad life.

This is my opinion, Am I wrong? I hope I am as Like Thailand .

You are wrong,

You forgot the qualification "for a single man".

If you are married in the USA your wife can put a spanner in any plans you have, at any time.

No different here if you are married. Anything acquired or earned during the marriage is split 50/50.

Not many foreigners earning much in Thailand, and no common law marriage.

In the USA they can get 50% (or more) of any assets the man has after living with them for a year.

[thailiketoo]

<snip. removed deleted post>

People Moving back to the States , experience sticker shock because they have being away for so long, and their income structure has not adjusted to the times .

Clearly there are things in Thailand that are less expensive than the US , housing is one, some foods is an other, but there are things in the US that are less expensive than Thailand. Cars is one that quickly comes to mind,clothing and consumer goods is an other.

But one must keep in mind that, if one has resolved his housing issue, and has taken proper steps through his or her life to insure a proper retirement income, one can retire in the US quite comfortable,

A Nice house can be had in Florida for about 4 million baht, low property taxes guarantied not to rise more than 3% per year . proper social support for the elderly. reliable internet, water,and electricity.With a retirement income of 60,000 baht one can live very nicely there.

Having said that, I should also say that we love Thailand, and we still like to spend a considerable amount of time there,

But as I get older and begin to face some of the issues associated with getting older, I am begging to also re-asses my plan to fully retire there.

A vacation home there and a few months to get my Thailand fix will suffice in my case.

You might want to re evaluate your information on property taxes in Florida with a look at the "Homestead Exemption."

" the homestead exemption itself entitles most homeowners to a deduction of $25,000 off of their property’s assessed value, which can result in several hundred dollars in tax savings. If your home is worth at least $75,000, you will receive an additional $25,000 deduction from your assessed value, although that additional deduction will not apply to school tax levies. Once you establish your right to a basic homestead exemption on your property, you may also qualify for additional homestead exemptions if you are over 65 years old or have a disability. But perhaps most importantly, receipt of a homestead exemption means that, pursuant to the Save Our Homes Amendment to the Florida Constitution, the assessed value of your homestead property cannot increase more than 3% per year or the percent change in the Consumer Price Index.

The homestead exemption makes your property immune from debt recovery. In Florida, our home is truly our castle, a castle that is impenetrable by creditors. Article X, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution exempts homestead property from levy and execution by judgment creditors. This means that a creditor cannot force the sale of your homestead to satisfy a judgment. Florida courts have liberally expanded definitions of homestead property to include more than just a single family house. Condominiums, manufactured homes, and mobile homes are also afforded homestead protection. The Constitution defines homestead as one’s principal place of residence up to one-half acre within a municipality and up to 160 contiguous acres in any county in Florida. Contiguous property may include lots with separate legal descriptions and separate tax numbers. ......http://www.alperlaw.com/asset-protection/florida-asset-protection/homestead-protection/

The Florida constitution prevents the IRS from foreclosing the lien and forcing you to sell your primary residence. http://www.assetprotectionfl.com/2005/05/florida-homestead-and-irs.html

It's why so many celebrity's like OJ moved to Florida.

[thailiketoo]

<snip. removed deleted post>

People Moving back to the States , experience sticker shock because they have being away for so long, and their income structure has not adjusted to the times .

Clearly there are things in Thailand that are less expensive than the US , housing is one, some foods is an other, but there are things in the US that are less expensive than Thailand. Cars is one that quickly comes to mind,clothing and consumer goods is an other.

But one must keep in mind that, if one has resolved his housing issue, and has taken proper steps through his or her life to insure a proper retirement income, one can retire in the US quite comfortable,

A Nice house can be had in Florida for about 4 million baht, low property taxes guarantied not to rise more than 3% per year . proper social support for the elderly. reliable internet, water,and electricity.With a retirement income of 60,000 baht one can live very nicely there.

Having said that, I should also say that we love Thailand, and we still like to spend a considerable amount of time there,

But as I get older and begin to face some of the issues associated with getting older, I am begging to also re-asses my plan to fully retire there.

A vacation home there and a few months to get my Thailand fix will suffice in my case.

Well, I agree there are many great things in the US, we just need to know as individuals what is most important to us. If internet ( do not have a problem in Thailand)is the reason for coming to Thailand, maybe the wrong place. Most retired people are living in Thailand for the social life, and that is a fact! Elderly in the western society are living in general a sad life, since we are all so busy with our self's. Been traveling in over 70 countries, living for years in 5 different countries, and my conclusion is that the western world has many things to learn from what we call the "THIRD World" and different cultures. I guess we are now best on looking down on people, one of our western problems.

I dont believe that internet service is a reason to or not to move to Thailand. I mention that as an example of infrastructure that is not is not up to par with the west, and in reference challenges that one would have to face as one gets older. I constantly read threads in this forum about internet problems, water problems electric outages, road problems, visa problems, bank problems, etc etc, excuse me for not wanting to deal with them when I am seventy or eighty.

Most elderly people I know have health issues. I hope when I get that old I dont but being realistic, there is a good chance that I also will. My medical insurance coverage is in the US and is not transferable to Thailand.

What do you guys do for medical coverage when you are in your 70s and 80s?

As far as elderly people living a sad life in the west is concern, I would respectfully disagree. Though some may, if one has made proper contingency plans , has their house paid off, and between Social Security and other pensions have an income of about $2,000 per month, there is no reason for any one to have a sad life.

This is my opinion, Am I wrong? I hope I am as Like Thailand .

Old folks can buy insurance from A1A in Thailand and go back home if health gets really bad. Also military health coverage can be extended to Thailand but that is another topic. As far a nursing homes in the West google fire ants nursing homes Florida, Texas and Mississippi.

[beachproperty]

<snip. removed deleted post>

People Moving back to the States , experience sticker shock because they have being away for so long, and their income structure has not adjusted to the times .

Clearly there are things in Thailand that are less expensive than the US , housing is one, some foods is an other, but there are things in the US that are less expensive than Thailand. Cars is one that quickly comes to mind,clothing and consumer goods is an other.

But one must keep in mind that, if one has resolved his housing issue, and has taken proper steps through his or her life to insure a proper retirement income, one can retire in the US quite comfortable,

A Nice house can be had in Florida for about 4 million baht, low property taxes guarantied not to rise more than 3% per year . proper social support for the elderly. reliable internet, water,and electricity.With a retirement income of 60,000 baht one can live very nicely there.

Having said that, I should also say that we love Thailand, and we still like to spend a considerable amount of time there,

But as I get older and begin to face some of the issues associated with getting older, I am begging to also re-asses my plan to fully retire there.

A vacation home there and a few months to get my Thailand fix will suffice in my case.

You might want to re evaluate your information on property taxes in Florida with a look at the "Homestead Exemption."

" the homestead exemption itself entitles most homeowners to a deduction of $25,000 off of their property’s assessed value, which can result in several hundred dollars in tax savings. If your home is worth at least $75,000, you will receive an additional $25,000 deduction from your assessed value, although that additional deduction will not apply to school tax levies. Once you establish your right to a basic homestead exemption on your property, you may also qualify for additional homestead exemptions if you are over 65 years old or have a disability. But perhaps most importantly, receipt of a homestead exemption means that, pursuant to the Save Our Homes Amendment to the Florida Constitution, the assessed value of your homestead property cannot increase more than 3% per year or the percent change in the Consumer Price Index.

The homestead exemption makes your property immune from debt recovery. In Florida, our home is truly our castle, a castle that is impenetrable by creditors. Article X, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution exempts homestead property from levy and execution by judgment creditors. This means that a creditor cannot force the sale of your homestead to satisfy a judgment. Florida courts have liberally expanded definitions of homestead property to include more than just a single family house. Condominiums, manufactured homes, and mobile homes are also afforded homestead protection. The Constitution defines homestead as one’s principal place of residence up to one-half acre within a municipality and up to 160 contiguous acres in any county in Florida. Contiguous property may include lots with separate legal descriptions and separate tax numbers. ......http://www.alperlaw.com/asset-protection/florida-asset-protection/homestead-protection/

It's why so many celebrity's like OJ moved to Florida.

Just, one small correction.

You state "The Florida constitution prevents the IRS from foreclosing the lien and forcing you to sell your primary residence. http://www.assetprotectionfl.com/2005/05/florida-homestead-and-irs.html"

I would beg to differ as NO state law (or constitution) can supercede that of the Federal gov and if a state does pass a law that does the Federal law prevails.

ie ...IRS gets to do just about anything they want! Maybe they can't forclose now, (Really haven't researched the IRS rules and regulations regarding this) but they get the money in the end! AND if the federal government ever passed a law that allowed the IRS to forclose (Again it may be on the books already....haven't researched it) ....Then they would be able to. That day may come soon than you think, if it isn't here alread

[JLCrab]

The Florida Homestead Exemption provides protection from most but not all creditors including mechanics who worked on property or creditors to whom the property was pledged as collateral. It does NOT provide protection from the IRS or state, county, and/or municipal taxes owed.

[thailiketoo]

The homestead exemption makes your property immune from debt recovery. In Florida, our home is truly our castle, a castle that is impenetrable by creditors. Article X, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution exempts homestead property from levy and execution by judgment creditors. This means that a creditor cannot force the sale of your homestead to satisfy a judgment. Florida courts have liberally expanded definitions of homestead property to include more than just a single family house. Condominiums, manufactured homes, and mobile homes are also afforded homestead protection. The Constitution defines homestead as one’s principal place of residence up to one-half acre within a municipality and up to 160 contiguous acres in any county in Florida. Contiguous property may include lots with separate legal descriptions and separate tax numbers. ......http://www.alperlaw.com/asset-protection/florida-asset-protection/homestead-protection/

It's why so many celebrity's like OJ moved to Florida.

Just, one small correction.

You state "The Florida constitution prevents the IRS from foreclosing the lien and forcing you to sell your primary residence. http://www.assetprotectionfl.com/2005/05/florida-homestead-and-irs.html"

I would beg to differ as NO state law (or constitution) can supercede that of the Federal gov and if a state does pass a law that does the Federal law prevails.

ie ...IRS gets to do just about anything they want! Maybe they can't forclose now, (Really haven't researched the IRS rules and regulations regarding this) but they get the money in the end! AND if the federal government ever passed a law that allowed the IRS to forclose (Again it may be on the books already....haven't researched it) ....Then they would be able to. That day may come soon than you think, if it isn't here alread

The link below says the IRS can't get your property till after you are dead. The issue has gone before the US Supreme court a number of times. It's complicated. But you stand the best chance of keeping your home from creditors in Florida.

The Florida constitution prevents the IRS from foreclosing the lien and forcing you to sell your primary residence. http://www.assetprotectionfl.com/2005/05/florida-homestead-and-irs.html

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The Florida Homestead Exemption provides protection from most but not all creditors including mechanics who worked on property or creditors to whom the property was pledged as collateral. It does NOT provide protection from the IRS or state, county, and/or municipal taxes owed.

Don't forget, your wife can still get your house.

[beachproperty]

The link below says the IRS can't get your property till after you are dead. The issue has gone before the US Supreme court a number of times. It's complicated. But you stand the best chance of keeping your home from creditors in Florida.

The Florida constitution prevents the IRS from foreclosing the lien and forcing you to sell your primary residence. http://www.assetprotectionfl.com/2005/05/florida-homestead-and-irs.html

The link given is a Blog....ie an opinion by the Admin of that page...and it would appear to be misleading

A Supreme court case citation would be helpful

As said before Federal law supercedes State law....So if the IRS chooses not to forclose (which I believe is the case most of the Time) so be it ...They get their money in the end!

"It has long been established that, although the definition of the underlying property interests is defined by state law, the consequences that attach to the property interests is a matter of federal law. United States v. Rodgers, 461 U.S. 677, 683 (1983)." ie the Federal Gov. (IRS) can forclose if they choose.

[thailiketoo]

The link below says the IRS can't get your property till after you are dead. The issue has gone before the US Supreme court a number of times. It's complicated. But you stand the best chance of keeping your home from creditors in Florida.

The Florida constitution prevents the IRS from foreclosing the lien and forcing you to sell your primary residence. http://www.assetprotectionfl.com/2005/05/florida-homestead-and-irs.html

The link given is a Blog....ie an opinion by the Admin of that page...and it would appear to be misleading

A Supreme court case citation would be helpful

As said before Federal law supercedes State law....So if the IRS chooses not to forclose (which I believe is the case most of the Time) so be it ...They get their money in the end!

"It has long been established that, although the definition of the underlying property interests is defined by state law, the consequences that attach to the property interests is a matter of federal law. United States v. Rodgers, 461 U.S. 677, 683 (1983)." ie the Federal Gov. (IRS) can forclose if they choose.

I would agree with that with the caveat that the federal government does things in Florida with the high voter turnout of all the old folks in the State, in mind.

[govoner]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

[thailiketoo]

So after 40 years he gets $190 k a year pension . That is probably more than he made a year while working ( military i assume) Good luck to him but is one of the reasons the USA is going broke. Huge pensions and a sense of entitlement . i hope he gets to spend it before it all crashes.

The USA is going broke being the policeman of the world and running things like aircraft carrier fleets because other countries are too cheap to build their own.

The USA does not Huge pensions. Social Security is paid from the money people put in while working. The US has entitlement programs but they are not pensions. Get your facts straight.

[sirineou]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Pensions are not entitlements, these are money that was deducted from my paycheck every week. and as mentioned many are vested in more than one career. I am vested in two unions, many people I know are, nothing unusual there. I worked very had for it, nobody just gave it to me. while many of you were running around boozing and whoring it, I was working

This not only provides me with financial safety in my golden years but also with the medical care I will need, and safety for my family. It is called making proper plans for the future.

[beachproperty]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90% (30 years get you a maximum pension).

So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment, work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

[thailiketoo]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90%. So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

You are writing about city pensions as opposed to USA Social Security. I assume if SF goes broke the pensions will not be paid.

[beachproperty]

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90%. So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

You are writing about city pensions as opposed to USA Social Security. I assume if SF goes broke the pensions will not be paid.

Yes I am, as no person gets $190,000 from social securtiy!.

Depending on your age at retirement (ie 62, 66, 70)..... maximum benefits average about $2500/month.