Police says its Koh Tao tourist murder case file solid for prosecution

[Baerboxer]

My point south peel is find out the name of the human rights group and get their view on this as the phone theory has gone down the toilet.

Surely you guys are entitled to hear what they have to say as the police seem very confident and full steam ahead.

A copy of the case file should be given to the UK authorities as a courtesy and so the coroner in the UK can verify the evidence and stop all this silly conjecture about Thai police corruption.

Further, the UK police should be permitted to retrive DNA samples from the accused to confirm Thai police evidence.

Surely this is exactly what the RTP needs right now?

It has nothing to do with the UK police. I'm sure the RTP will respond to any request for information to help the coroner's inquiry that is made through the correct channels.

Why would the RTP, or any other police force subject themselves to an approval by the British police?

[heyexile]

What is the real moral to this story? Well, one of them is that we are not going to see any meaningful change, to the fabric of Thai society. Many of us were incredibly hopeful that we would see some positive changes. And I think it is quite possible that Prayuth, and his top guys have their hearts in the right places, and want to see this change take place. Many expats, and many Thais really want to see progress, and want to see this country moving forward into this century. Yes, we will see some land crimes solved, and some illegal beach vendors removed. But, in terms of dealing with the massive corruption issues, the kind of power guys like the headman of Koh Tao have, and their ability to abuse that power, and positive changes at an institutional level, and at a national level, where it really counts, many of us now doubt it will happen. This case proves, that many are still above the law, and even the Army cannot touch them. That is the devastating moral to this story. A very disappointing outcome indeed.

Like your post but "even the Army cannot touch them" ? A good army general, as PM, is Supreme Commander of the Police Department and appointed the Police Commissioner General (ie top cop). Army/Police same same but different. http://thaitribune.org/en/hot-issue/5886

"Myanmar men say their colleagues were tortured prior to confessions" - The Nation

Must be a misunderstanding as police would never do such a terrible thing.

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

There will be coroner`s inquests in England on Jan 5th and there have already been autopsies in UK.

Check the Jersey Post etc

For details on NGOs involved, see http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

[BuffaloRescue]

I guess we all kinda jumped on this. Perhaps it was the Burmese. True Thais try to blame them for many things unfairly, and in many cases murders of foreigners has not be prosecuted fairly. But it doesnt stand to reason that Burmese never murder tourists. Its pretty far fetched that the police could force 2 innocent people to confess in this case when it can carry death penalty. Its an international affair with NGOs, International media and Burmese embassy involved. Just how influential could some "mafia" or "well connected" bar owning family on a tiny island could be?

Im still confused about the foreign busker guy.. could just be hes totally paranoid and on drugs? Or an idiot trying to make a sensationalist story to get hits to his blog or whatever

Edited October 7, 2014 by BuffaloRescue

[SteveFong]

Andy Hall is leading a team of lawyers to defend the burmese kids

[thesetat2013]

commenting that the suspects may have been coerced by Thai authorities.

The men have signed confessions... END OF STORY.. Guilty as charged..... The RTP have their men.....

AS for the 3rd DNA found... Forget it.... The RTP have their men....

The RTP did an outstanding job. They have their men...

Does any of this mean anything.... IT doesn't really matter.... The RTP have their men....

END OF STORY

How did they get the confessions? In that 'interrogation shack' - They beat and tried to pay off a taxi driver to supply false evidence, they may have tortured up to 10 Burmese guys according to what people have said. They handled the crime scene with less care than a 2 year old. They care more about tourism. These are some of the main issues which need to be addressed, why, well because when it happens again and again and again, people will be framed and stitched up like they have this time around and have done in the past. It is not 'END OF STORY' because of this reason. They have their men yes, the men they chose to fit the crime. If you believe it was actually these guys you either have to be willfully ignorant, stupid or have not kept up with the case in general. END OF STORY

I was being sarcastic

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BoristheBlade]

Their is one other person who we could turn to, but at the present time they are in no fit position to help.

And it would be the job of Her Majesty\s representive of Thaiiand to ask for the said help/advice.

By the looks of it, only David's or Hannah's parents together with a high profile lawyer will be able to change anything now. Petitions to the ambassador won't help since all he's concerned about is his comfy and well-paid job in Thailand. He won't jeopardise this over a messed up murder case. The RTP threatening everyone with legal action if they oppose to the official story, should ring alarm bells all over the world, but most likely won't because the world population got accustomed to the "either you are with us or against us" stance of governments since 9/11.

Honestly, I haven't heard anything about Hannah's or David's parents doing an open inquiry into the case or demanding transparency, whatsoever... what makes me wonder. They should be the ones posting, questioning, copying and reposting the photos that suggest foul play, etc. and would not be able to be touched, because Thai authorities threatening the parents of the victims would ignite international outrage. However from that corner (the parents) I hear and read nothing. I understand that a family has to grieve, but to me as a father, everything inside of me would be screaming for revenge. So why the silence from the side of the stadium the majority of "boooohs" should origin from??? Please correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps they do something, but I haven't found anything...

In my opinion, the ball is in the parent's court now and if they decide to not throw the ball back to the officials in charge, all will be lost. The only hope then is that the Burmese guys' lawyer finds enough glitches in the investigation to rip the case apart in mid air. I however doubt it. In a political unstable situation like this, a non-democracy (sugarcoated) perhaps even he can be threatened into submission, who knows? Until the parents themselves speak up, nothing will change. The two Burmese will be sentenced and executed and after that it will be business as usual. What a sickening world we live in

[northernjohn]

Given The BIBs other statement, I suppose we aren't really allowed to question anything, without the possibility of charges being bought for insulting an official.

Wrong as usual. You may not post false information.

Ask any intelligent question you can come up with.

I realize it will be a hard job but go ahead ask away.

Oh dear, someone that misses out on "irony".

"irony" it may be. But you believe it.

[northernjohn]

By the looks of it, only David's or Hannah's parents together with a high profile lawyer will be able to change anything now. Petitions to the ambassador won't help since all he's concerned about is his comfy and well-paid job in Thailand. He won't jeopardise this over a messed up murder case. The RTP threatening everyone with legal action if they oppose to the official story, should ring alarm bells all over the world, but most likely won't because the world population got accustomed to the "either you are with us or against us" stance of governments since 9/11.

Honestly, I haven't heard anything about Hannah's or David's parents doing an open inquiry into the case or demanding transparency, whatsoever... what makes me wonder. They should be the ones posting, questioning, copying and reposting the photos that suggest foul play, etc. and would not be able to be touched, because Thai authorities threatening the parents of the victims would ignite international outrage. However from that corner (the parents) I hear and read nothing. I understand that a family has to grieve, but to me as a father, everything inside of me would be screaming for revenge. So why the silence from the side of the stadium the majority of "boooohs" should origin from??? Please correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps they do something, but I haven't found anything...

In my opinion, the ball is in the parent's court now and if they decide to not throw the ball back to the officials in charge, all will be lost. The only hope then is that the Burmese guys' lawyer finds enough glitches in the investigation to rip the case apart in mid air. I however doubt it. In a political unstable situation like this, a non-democracy (sugarcoated) perhaps even he can be threatened into submission, who knows? Until the parents themselves speak up, nothing will change. The two Burmese will be sentenced and executed and after that it will be business as usual. What a sickening world we live in

What a sickening world we you live in sad

Had to make a change. Hate it when people try to drag me into their nonsense.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the parents are accepting the police actions. That they really don't care to live in the world of conspiracies. Reality is hard enough for them.

[SteveFong]

the best hope these kids have, is coming from Burma

[balo]

I guess we all kinda jumped on this. Perhaps it was the Burmese. True Thais try to blame them for many things unfairly, and in many cases murders of foreigners has not be prosecuted fairly. But it doesnt stand to reason that Burmese never murder tourists. Its pretty far fetched that the police could force 2 innocent people to confess in this case when it can carry death penalty. Its an international affair with NGOs, International media and Burmese embassy involved. Just how influential could some "mafia" or "well connected" bar owning family on a tiny island could be?

Im still confused about the foreign busker guy.. could just be hes totally paranoid and on drugs? Or an idiot trying to make a sensationalist story to get hits to his blog or whatever

I agree with you , even the big headman on this tiny island can't control RTP outside his own territory . In Bangkok ,the P.M and politicians running this country want to catch the real killers, it doesnt matter if he is a wealthy thai person or a poor Burmese really.

I can understand the mafia on the island can control the local police but not outsiders who's been in charge of most of the investigation .

Edited October 7, 2014 by metisdead
16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[HeijoshinCool]

Pol. Lt. Gen. Decha Butr-namthip,

1. He said that inspection of the case file was an important final step in the process to check for any loopholes.

You're gonna need a calculator, General. Or perhaps an astronomer.

2. Should any doubts arise on any point of the case file then further interrogation of the suspects will be needed.

Translation: more torture, as opposed to more standard forms of investigation

3. In closing he said that should any organization, be they human rights or otherwise wish to be privy to any facts pertaining to the case, he would be willing to answer all questions.

Translation: give him a head's up, so they can formulate more BS to cover said loopholes. See 1 above.

[HeijoshinCool]

I guess we all kinda jumped on this. Perhaps it was the Burmese. True Thais try to blame them for many things unfairly, and in many cases murders of foreigners has not be prosecuted fairly. But it doesnt stand to reason that Burmese never murder tourists. Its pretty far fetched that the police could force 2 innocent people to confess in this case when it can carry death penalty. Its an international affair with NGOs, International media and Burmese embassy involved. Just how influential could some "mafia" or "well connected" bar owning family on a tiny island could be?

Im still confused about the foreign busker guy.. could just be hes totally paranoid and on drugs? Or an idiot trying to make a sensationalist story to get hits to his blog or whatever

I agree with you , even the big headman on this tiny island can't control RTP outside his own territory . In Bangkok ,the P.M and politicians running this country want to catch the real killers, it doesnt matter if he is a wealthy thai person or a poor Burmese really.

I can understand the mafia on the island can control the local police but not outsiders who's been in charge of most of the investigation .

.

It seems you either don't understand Thai culture, or conveniently ignore it.

Your posts have droned on and on, Balo, defending incompetence and corruption that is at a level that can only be described as evil.

It's not the influence of the local mafia, it's the influence of the local senior police.

It's also, much more so, about Face. At a national level.

[slipperx]

Well okay then. Should be no problem passing the evidence to the UK coroner for pier review.

I dont Think the UK police or government has requested the files and I doubt they will. The ambassador here in thailand is confident the police is doing there work properly

There should be an inquest in the UK.

There is going to be an inquest, this establishes the cause of death for the public record that's all, it is beyond the remit of a UK coroner/ authorities to get involved in establishing the guilt or innocence of suspects or to review actual investigation details, unless invited to do so by Thai authorities, they can only do this in cases which have occurred in the UK.

For all the UK should do this or the UK should do that comes from TV finest CSI, the simple fact - the UK authorities have no right to do anything involving an investigation in another country unless invited to do so.

They have a right to ask!

[jdinasia]

Well okay then. Should be no problem passing the evidence to the UK coroner for pier review.

Huh????

The evidence? That will not be handed over to anyone else. The defense may have a right to retesting it but the chain of custody will never include people outside the Thai justice system.

[jdinasia]

Well okay then. Should be no problem passing the evidence to the UK coroner for pier review.

I dont Think the UK police or government has requested the files and I doubt they will. The ambassador here in thailand is confident the police is doing there work properly

There should be an inquest in the UK.

There is going to be an inquest, this establishes the cause of death for the public record that's all, it is beyond the remit of a UK coroner/ authorities to get involved in establishing the guilt or innocence of suspects or to review actual investigation details, unless invited to do so by Thai authorities, they can only do this in cases which have occurred in the UK.

For all the UK should do this or the UK should do that comes from TV finest CSI, the simple fact - the UK authorities have no right to do anything involving an investigation in another country unless invited to do so.

They have a right to ask!

No they don't.

[Soutpeel]

Well okay then. Should be no problem passing the evidence to the UK coroner for pier review.

I dont Think the UK police or government has requested the files and I doubt they will. The ambassador here in thailand is confident the police is doing there work properly

In overseas murders it is quite common for the British coroner to produce a verdict also

No, there is no verdict, the Coroner will only state the cause of death is consistent with an unlawful death, based on their examination and other information, this is a requirement in British law for the public record in the case of suspicious deaths in both the UK and when a British national is killed oversea's, the only time they can comment on a police investigation etc is when it is the British police involved

It not an investigation into what the RTP have done in this case, DNA evidence, Suspects guilt or innocence, stitch up's or any other of the procedural aspects of the case

in this particular case, the process is a formality, unlawful killing will be recorded in the public record that's all...its murder, and this is known already.

TV CSI conspiracy nuts should not read anymore into this inquest than the above

[huawei]

I guess we all kinda jumped on this. Perhaps it was the Burmese. True Thais try to blame them for many things unfairly, and in many cases murders of foreigners has not be prosecuted fairly. But it doesnt stand to reason that Burmese never murder tourists. Its pretty far fetched that the police could force 2 innocent people to confess in this case when it can carry death penalty. Its an international affair with NGOs, International media and Burmese embassy involved. Just how influential could some "mafia" or "well connected" bar owning family on a tiny island could be?

Im still confused about the foreign busker guy.. could just be hes totally paranoid and on drugs? Or an idiot trying to make a sensationalist story to get hits to his blog or whatever

I agree with you , even the big headman on this tiny island can't control RTP outside his own territory . In Bangkok ,the P.M and politicians running this country want to catch the real killers, it doesnt matter if he is a wealthy thai person or a poor Burmese really.

I can understand the mafia on the island can control the local police but not outsiders who's been in charge of most of the investigation .

.

It seems you either don't understand Thai culture, or conveniently ignore it.

Your posts have droned on and on, Balo, defending incompetence and corruption that is at a level that can only be described as evil.

It's not the influence of the local mafia, it's the influence of the local senior police.

It's also, much more so, about Face. At a national level.

Never seen a post like that which is so ignorant of how Thailand function, in all walks of life not just in this instance. Maybe a trip to the law courts might help.

Why do some invest so much emotional energy in denying what is evident almost everyday in Thailand.

This is just on a grander scale.

The people are nice it's the institutions and the hierarchical nature that is wrong. Most Thais I know don't even find other Thais as a whole trust worthy.

Plus all the other cases that also happened to be migrant workers .

At this rate it would appear to be more dangerous to visit Burma !

[AGareth2]

press release?

[jdinasia]

Andy Hall is leading a team of lawyers to defend the burmese kids

Huh?

[FangFerang]

Slowly but surely we are moving towards the general acceptance of the guilt of the two Burmese as a certainty.

So over 90% of our expatriate community will have to decide a public apology or be silent forever.

I await the moment with relish.

But finally, I'll bet they will not do neither the one nor the other...

We are not moving toward public acceptance of this case, we are not moving toward a third party verification, and that is what most expatriates want.

How can you await anything with relish? Thais don't use relish, or horseradish, or brown mustard or......HP sauce or.......

The whole fiasco is fishy smelling, like a blue diamond, or stale red bull, or month old somtam.

[Soutpeel]

They have a right to ask!

Who does ? the UK police ?, The Coroner ?, no they don't, if there was asking to be done, it would be from a far higher level, i.e. at a diplomatic level and seeing as the British Ambassador has already publicly stated he is satisfied, that's the end of it, unless some new tangible evidence comes to light, and I don't mean pixalated photographs of telephones, suspects or "knife wounds" or hysterical comments from conspiracy theorists/tinfoil hatters on internet forums either.

[belg]

they want to push so hard to bring the tourism dollars back ...

case closed and please, wallets open

[Thai at Heart]

Well okay then. Should be no problem passing the evidence to the UK coroner for pier review.

I dont Think the UK police or government has requested the files and I doubt they will. The ambassador here in thailand is confident the police is doing there work properly

In overseas murders it is quite common for the British coroner to produce a verdict also

No, there is no verdict, the Coroner will only state the cause of death is consistent with an unlawful death, based on their examination and other information, this is a requirement in British law for the public record in the case of suspicious deaths in both the UK and when a British national is killed oversea's, the only time they can comment on a police investigation etc is when it is the British police involved

It not an investigation into what the RTP have done in this case, DNA evidence, Suspects guilt or innocence, stitch up's or any other of the procedural aspects of the case

in this particular case, the process is a formality, unlawful killing will be recorded in the public record that's all...its murder, and this is known already.

TV CSI conspiracy nuts should not read anymore into this inquest than the above

Sorry not a verdict. A cause of death.

[slipperx]

They have a right to ask!

Who does ? the UK police ?, The Coroner ?, no they don't, if there was asking to be done, it would be from a far higher level, i.e. at a diplomatic level and seeing as the British Ambassador has already publicly stated he is satisfied, that's the end of it, unless some new tangible evidence comes to light, and I don't mean pixalated photographs of telephones, suspects or "knife wounds" or hysterical comments from conspiracy theorists/tinfoil hatters on internet forums either.

I replied to a post referring to UK authorities which includes the government through the foreign office. The ambassador is merely a civil servant and if there is sufficient public opinion that might affect things politically then you would see some action.

Any government has a right to ask questions of another government if they so choose. If you think otherwise then we will have to agree to differ. Whether any such request would be well received is another question but quite likely it would not cause an issue. Police forces often ask for co-operation between nations too and I am sure that does not go to the highest levels for approval either (except within the police forces concerned).

[jdinasia]

They have a right to ask!

Who does ? the UK police ?, The Coroner ?, no they don't, if there was asking to be done, it would be from a far higher level, i.e. at a diplomatic level and seeing as the British Ambassador has already publicly stated he is satisfied, that's the end of it, unless some new tangible evidence comes to light, and I don't mean pixalated photographs of telephones, suspects or "knife wounds" or hysterical comments from conspiracy theorists/tinfoil hatters on internet forums either.

I replied to a post referring to UK authorities which includes the government through the foreign office. The ambassador is merely a civil servant and if there is sufficient public opinion that might affect things politically then you would see some action.

Any government has a right to ask questions of another government if they so choose. If you think otherwise then we will have to agree to differ. Whether any such request would be well received is another question but quite likely it would not cause an issue. Police forces often ask for co-operation between nations too and I am sure that does not go to the highest levels for approval either (except within the police forces concerned).

FO has made a statement..

[Soutpeel]

Slowly but surely we are moving towards the general acceptance of the guilt of the two Burmese as a certainty.

So over 90% of our expatriate community will have to decide a public apology or be silent forever.

I await the moment with relish.

But finally, I'll bet they will not do neither the one nor the other...

We are not moving toward public acceptance of this case, we are not moving toward a third party verification, and that is what most expatriates want.

How can you await anything with relish? Thais don't use relish, or horseradish, or brown mustard or......HP sauce or.......

The whole fiasco is fishy smelling, like a blue diamond, or stale red bull, or month old somtam.

If the BIB where smart considering all the controversy they would invite representatives of the British police force to come to Thailand to review the case to date this has not been put on the table, now all one can say is why ?

Is it a face thing ?...We don't want foreigners involved ?

or there has been a cover up and they are sh*t scared outside involvement is going open the can worms

[ParadiseLost]

The policeman said they hadn't checked the DNA of the 2 suspects prior detention because they lived outside the first zone for checking, one was at a restaurant, and one at a pier,1km and 1.5 km away from the crime scene.

Agreed, and furthermore the illegals would have been in hiding while the police and army were checking.

Action will (supposedly) still be taken against those businesses who 'miscounted' their immigrant employees. The KP police chief was 'scolded' when his nice little extortion racket was exposed... 7,000 immigrants, only 4,000 legal. Way more on KP, sir.

[ParadiseLost]

I guess we all kinda jumped on this. Perhaps it was the Burmese. True Thais try to blame them for many things unfairly, and in many cases murders of foreigners has not be prosecuted fairly. But it doesnt stand to reason that Burmese never murder tourists. Its pretty far fetched that the police could force 2 innocent people to confess in this case when it can carry death penalty. Its an international affair with NGOs, International media and Burmese embassy involved. Just how influential could some "mafia" or "well connected" bar owning family on a tiny island could be?

Im still confused about the foreign busker guy.. could just be hes totally paranoid and on drugs? Or an idiot trying to make a sensationalist story to get hits to his blog or whatever

On one of the little islands you have the owners of Bangkok Airlines, poised to get 14 Billion from an IPO.

[Prbkk]

Well okay then. Should be no problem passing the evidence to the UK coroner for pier review.

I dont Think the UK police or government has requested the files and I doubt they will. The ambassador here in thailand is confident the police is doing there work properly

In overseas murders it is quite common for the British coroner to produce a verdict also

No, there is no verdict, the Coroner will only state the cause of death is consistent with an unlawful death, based on their examination and other information, this is a requirement in British law for the public record in the case of suspicious deaths in both the UK and when a British national is killed oversea's, the only time they can comment on a police investigation etc is when it is the British police involved

It not an investigation into what the RTP have done in this case, DNA evidence, Suspects guilt or innocence, stitch up's or any other of the procedural aspects of the case

in this particular case, the process is a formality, unlawful killing will be recorded in the public record that's all...its murder, and this is known already.

TV CSI conspiracy nuts should not read anymore into this inquest than the above

In fact , the Coroner faces no constraints on comments/findings/criticisms related to the death of UK citizens abroad. Perhaps unlikely in this matter, given the lack of access to material and the fact that this is a legal case in trainYou might recall the findings of the coroner in the ONE2Go crash in Phuket, in which a number of UK citizens died.

.

[spidermike007]

What is the real moral to this story? Well, one of them is that we are not going to see any meaningful change, to the fabric of Thai society. Many of us were incredibly hopeful that we would see some positive changes. And I think it is quite possible that Prayuth, and his top guys have their hearts in the right places, and want to see this change take place. Many expats, and many Thais really want to see progress, and want to see this country moving forward into this century. Yes, we will see some land crimes solved, and some illegal beach vendors removed. But, in terms of dealing with the massive corruption issues, the kind of power guys like the headman of Koh Tao have, and their ability to abuse that power, and positive changes at an institutional level, and at a national level, where it really counts, many of us now doubt it will happen. This case proves, that many are still above the law, and even the Army cannot touch them. That is the devastating moral to this story. A very disappointing outcome indeed.

Like your post but "even the Army cannot touch them" ? A good army general, as PM, is Supreme Commander of the Police Department and appointed the Police Commissioner General (ie top cop). Army/Police same same but different. http://thaitribune.org/en/hot-issue/5886

"Myanmar men say their colleagues were tortured prior to confessions" - The Nation

Must be a misunderstanding as police would never do such a terrible thing.

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

There will be coroner`s inquests in England on Jan 5th and there have already been autopsies in UK.

Check the Jersey Post etc

For details on NGOs involved, see http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

Well, in retrospect, I should have said even the army will not touch them. It is not like they are incapable. More like unwilling. Rocking the boat. Knocking over the apple cart. Upsetting the status quo. Whatever you want to call it.