Democrats opposed to compromises on justice in push for reconciliation

[Lite Beer]

Democrats opposed to compromises on justice in push for reconciliation
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- Punishment for people who break the law should not be viewed as an obstacle to the plan for reconciliation, Democrat Party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut said yesterday.

"The party wants to stress that while reconciliation is necessary, it cannot be achieved when the innocent are punished and offenders escape. There must be equality in justice," he said.

"I would like to support PM General Prayut Chan-o-cha's view that there should be a separation between the drafting of the new constitution and the punishment of offenders so that the country can move forward," he added.

The Democrat spokesman was responding to remarks by Worachai Hema, former Pheu Thai MP, who had said that the Democrat Party had certain "special" rights and was "being better looked after".

Chavanond stressed that the country's key problem was the denial of guilt by those who had done wrong, and the attempt to amend the law and constitution by the Pheu Thai administration.

The deputy spokesman assured the public that the Democrat Party had never received preferential treatment or "special rights", and said whenever they were accused of something, they always fought through the justice system to prove their innocence.

He said many times the party had lost cases and been punished. Even though they did not always agree with outcomes, they never created chaos or conflict within society.

In regard to accusations about corruption in the construction of police stations, the political rally in 2010 and the minimum wage project along with all other cases, the party was ready to clarify things and fight through justice system.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrats-opposed-to-compromises-on-justice-in-pus-30247328.html

-- The Nation 2014-11-09

[Robby nz]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

[RustBucket]

Classic PTP garbage.

At a time when the PTP are trying every trick in the book to weasel out of all their crimes against Thailand.

People in glass houses.

[The stuttering parrot]

Seems par for the course.

Always target the PTP reds while the yellow dems are pure as the driven snow.

Why even the self proclaimed peoples champion is now a self proclaimed monk hiding behind a robe while his mate who is supposed to be a monk is using his robes to hide behind also.

People who live in glass temples.

[Chupup]

Seems par for the course.

Always target the PTP reds while the yellow dems are pure as the driven snow.

Why even the self proclaimed peoples champion is now a self proclaimed monk hiding behind a robe while his mate who is supposed to be a monk is using his robes to hide behind also.

People who live in glass temples.

??????????? rubbish post

[greenchair]

Pt tried to change the constitution back to its original version that had been changed by the democrat party and the leaders of a coup. That made 40% of the Senate an unelected group to be appointed.

So it was okay to change the constitution by the Democrats.

But illegal to attempt to change it by the pt.

A constitutional change in other countries (even the smallest amendment) can take between 10 and 20 years of discussion and debate.

The change would be debated through several different parties . It would be debated through several courts and even after years may not get a change.

That's why it is loved and trusted in other countries. It is a sacred document that people can trust even when other laws fail us.

No 1 government, peoples, or court should have the right to alter a constitutional document without Many years of deliberation.

Nobody will trust a document that is thrown out every few years by a few people who do not like.

People in thailand are learning not to trust their own constitution. The question is " how does the new constitution get back the trust of the people"?

[Thailand]

The Democrats never had special rights? So what was their reward for refusing to take part in and disrupting elections?

I remember, their main opposition that they could not defeat at the polls was forced out of power.

That said, nothing will change come genuine free fair and unrigged elections. They will lose again.

[chainarong]

I don't think this tit for tat diplomacy is helpful to arrive at a harmonious Thailand, the lines have been drawn so the point I make , has anything changed , the only reform I want to see besides representation from the broader community in parliament is that any person with a criminal record or charged until proven innocent cannot hold the positions as members of parliament , belong to a political party , be a departmental head of either Government or Local government, that should deplete a few ego's .

[JOC]

Spot on the "Democrats"!!

So I expect to see Prayuth and Suthep in a courtroom soon!!

And Sondhi Limthongkul starting to serve his 20 year sentence!!

Or did I misunsderstand the OP??

[nong38]

Justice and the judicial system is the base point of where Thailand goes from here. The law has to be applied to everyone equally, everyone need to obey the law and the police need to enforce it.

Without a rule of law you do not have a society worth talking about all you have is chaos.

[Robespiere]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

[djjamie]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction

And then of course we have the "forgotten" charges against thaksin which have honestly slipped your mind.



1.1 Tax avoidance in transferring Shinawat Computer Inc. Communications involving Khun Ying Pojaman Shinawat –Bannaphot Damaphong Case number : 1149/2550 commenced 26 March 2007


1.2 The sale of land in the Rachadapisek district by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) to KY. Pojaman Shinawat. Both Thaksin and Pojaman are defendants 


1.3 The case regarding the 2/3 number lottery project by the The Government Lottery Office. 32 political office holders and 16 officials.

2 Those cases which have been sent to the office of the auditor general but which were not decided by the Attorney General before the ASC ended its tenure: 



2.1 Projects regarding electrical cable laying at Suwannaphum airport involving former Minister of Transport Suriya Jungrungreangkit and a top official in the Ministry of Transport


2.2. Case involving baggage systems and CTX 9000 scanners at S.Airport involving 26 politicians, civil servants, officials of state enterprises, juristic persons, and entrepreneurs. Loss to the state estimated at 6, 937 million baht. 


2.3 Case involving “loan irregularities loan irregularities extended to the Krisda Mahanakorn Group” by the Krung Thai group. The case involves Thaksin, his son Panthongtae and 31 (former) board members of Krung Thai Bank. 


2.4 Five cases that allege the former prime minister Thaksin used his position to benefit his own businesses, causing loss to state assets. 


2.4.1 Case on the order to convert mobile phone operator concessions to an excise tax, leading to a loss of the Telephone organization of Thailand of 30, 667 million baht. 


2.4.2 Case regarding reducing revenue share paid to TST ทศท from prepaid mobile services from 25 to 20% leading to a state loss of 872 million baht.


2.4.3 Case relating to AIS and its reduction of payments by treating networks separately for payment purposes to TOT. Loss of 18970579711 baht during the term of the concession. This gain enabled rise in Shin Corp before its sale.


2.4.4 Various breaks given by the Board of Investment for IPSTAR satellite projects within Thailand. 


2.4.5 Case regarding Treasury officials in tax negotiations regarding the sale of Shin Corp. 



3. Those cases under consideration by the AEC but not forwarded to the OAG before 30th June. 



3.1 Case regarding Sky Train Airport link with losses to the state of 1, 200 million baht. 


3.2 Three Cases regarding Ua Athon housing project that involves builders, officials (3.2.1/3.2.2/3.2.3 ) 


3.3 A case involving the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and its dealings with private companies worth 300 million baht. 
3.4 The case involving the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority’s purchase of fire trucks involving a loss to the state of 1, 900 million baht. 


3.5 The cause of unusual wealth in Thaksin’s purchase of Manchester City



Here are the cases that were dropped. Seems thaksin gets more legal breaks than people give him credit for. But of course the narrative needs to be the poor shinawatra's persecuted by the courts and these need to be "forgotten" like the other charges against him.

4. Those cases which have been returned after the Attorney General determined not to proceed.



4.1 The Export-Import Bank and the loan to Burma (which involved purchase of Shin Corp products). Claimed loss of state amounting to 670,436,201 baht (EXIM) 140,349,000 (Treasury). Gains to Shin Corp 593,492,815 baht. 


4.2 Case involving Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and rubber plantations project. Loss to the state of 1, 400 million baht Case involves 44 people including Newin Chidchop, former Deputy Minister of Agriculture. Various accused are being asked to pay compensation of 1,109 million baht.



5. Those cases sent to the Tax office to recoup tax.



5.1 Pojaman Shinawat and Banaphot Damaphong transferred shares with no tax. Tax outstanding approximately 546 million baht. 


5.2 Thaksin’s children Phongthongtae and Thongtha Shinawat bought shares in Shin Corp from Ample Rich Invesment (164.6 million each) at a cost of 1 baht before they sold it to Temasak at 49.25 baht, which is subject to tax. In August 2550 requested Tax Department to seek payment of 11, 809, 294, 773 baht in tax. 


5. 3. Ample Rich tax issue, as it was active in Thailand for four years, but never paid tax.

Edited November 9, 2014 by djjamie

[pisico]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction

And then of course we have the "forgotten" charges against thaksin which have honestly slipped your mind.



1.1 Tax avoidance in transferring Shinawat Computer Inc. Communications involving Khun Ying Pojaman Shinawat –Bannaphot Damaphong Case number : 1149/2550 commenced 26 March 2007


1.2 The sale of land in the Rachadapisek district by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) to KY. Pojaman Shinawat. Both Thaksin and Pojaman are defendants 


1.3 The case regarding the 2/3 number lottery project by the The Government Lottery Office. 32 political office holders and 16 officials.

2 Those cases which have been sent to the office of the auditor general but which were not decided by the Attorney General before the ASC ended its tenure: 



2.1 Projects regarding electrical cable laying at Suwannaphum airport involving former Minister of Transport Suriya Jungrungreangkit and a top official in the Ministry of Transport


2.2. Case involving baggage systems and CTX 9000 scanners at S.Airport involving 26 politicians, civil servants, officials of state enterprises, juristic persons, and entrepreneurs. Loss to the state estimated at 6, 937 million baht. 


2.3 Case involving “loan irregularities loan irregularities extended to the Krisda Mahanakorn Group” by the Krung Thai group. The case involves Thaksin, his son Panthongtae and 31 (former) board members of Krung Thai Bank. 


2.4 Five cases that allege the former prime minister Thaksin used his position to benefit his own businesses, causing loss to state assets. 


2.4.1 Case on the order to convert mobile phone operator concessions to an excise tax, leading to a loss of the Telephone organization of Thailand of 30, 667 million baht. 


2.4.2 Case regarding reducing revenue share paid to TST ทศท from prepaid mobile services from 25 to 20% leading to a state loss of 872 million baht.


2.4.3 Case relating to AIS and its reduction of payments by treating networks separately for payment purposes to TOT. Loss of 18970579711 baht during the term of the concession. This gain enabled rise in Shin Corp before its sale.


2.4.4 Various breaks given by the Board of Investment for IPSTAR satellite projects within Thailand. 


2.4.5 Case regarding Treasury officials in tax negotiations regarding the sale of Shin Corp. 



3. Those cases under consideration by the AEC but not forwarded to the OAG before 30th June. 



3.1 Case regarding Sky Train Airport link with losses to the state of 1, 200 million baht. 


3.2 Three Cases regarding Ua Athon housing project that involves builders, officials (3.2.1/3.2.2/3.2.3 ) 


3.3 A case involving the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and its dealings with private companies worth 300 million baht. 
3.4 The case involving the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority’s purchase of fire trucks involving a loss to the state of 1, 900 million baht. 


3.5 The cause of unusual wealth in Thaksin’s purchase of Manchester City



Here are the cases that were dropped. Seems thaksin gets more legal breaks than people give him credit for. But of course the narrative needs to be the poor shinawatra's persecuted by the courts and these need to be "forgotten" like the other charges against him.

4. Those cases which have been returned after the Attorney General determined not to proceed.



4.1 The Export-Import Bank and the loan to Burma (which involved purchase of Shin Corp products). Claimed loss of state amounting to 670,436,201 baht (EXIM) 140,349,000 (Treasury). Gains to Shin Corp 593,492,815 baht. 


4.2 Case involving Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and rubber plantations project. Loss to the state of 1, 400 million baht Case involves 44 people including Newin Chidchop, former Deputy Minister of Agriculture. Various accused are being asked to pay compensation of 1,109 million baht.



5. Those cases sent to the Tax office to recoup tax.



5.1 Pojaman Shinawat and Banaphot Damaphong transferred shares with no tax. Tax outstanding approximately 546 million baht. 


5.2 Thaksin’s children Phongthongtae and Thongtha Shinawat bought shares in Shin Corp from Ample Rich Invesment (164.6 million each) at a cost of 1 baht before they sold it to Temasak at 49.25 baht, which is subject to tax. In August 2550 requested Tax Department to seek payment of 11, 809, 294, 773 baht in tax. 


5. 3. Ample Rich tax issue, as it was active in Thailand for four years, but never paid tax.

Many people would not have a life if Thaksin had never existed.

The true nature of OCD

[pisico]

Pt tried to change the constitution back to its original version that had been changed by the democrat party and the leaders of a coup. That made 40% of the Senate an unelected group to be appointed.

So it was okay to change the constitution by the Democrats.

But illegal to attempt to change it by the pt.

A constitutional change in other countries (even the smallest amendment) can take between 10 and 20 years of discussion and debate.

The change would be debated through several different parties . It would be debated through several courts and even after years may not get a change.

That's why it is loved and trusted in other countries. It is a sacred document that people can trust even when other laws fail us.

No 1 government, peoples, or court should have the right to alter a constitutional document without Many years of deliberation.

Nobody will trust a document that is thrown out every few years by a few people who do not like.

People in thailand are learning not to trust their own constitution. The question is " how does the new constitution get back the trust of the people"?

Quote:

" how does the new constitution get back the trust of the people"?

It does not.

Immaterial to the powers that be at the moment.

All Thai politicos, from all colours of the spectrum operate moved by inbred, atavistic feudal principles, not the Rule of Law .

If a group wants a return to the Rule of Law (which is a hazy subject in Thailand) it will be fought tooth and nail by the rabid members of other colours. They are all for privileges for their colour group.

Does any of the pro yellows wants to talk (or remember) the Sor Por Kor 4-01 land scheme scandal or why Thaksin is hugely popular amongst the poor in the hinterlands?

What matters is to have their system work for their benefit.

The reason Thailand is the universal hub of charters (how many so far?).... and proud of it !

[Stradavarius37]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

hyperbole much? Lmao

[billd766]

Spot on the "Democrats"!!

So I expect to see Prayuth and Suthep in a courtroom soon!!

And Sondhi Limthongkul starting to serve his 20 year sentence!!

Or did I misunsderstand the OP??

Would that be before or after Thaksin comes back to Thailand to stand trial for some 15 other offenses?

[Robespiere]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction

And then of course we have the "forgotten" charges against thaksin which have honestly slipped your mind.



1.1 Tax avoidance in transferring Shinawat Computer Inc. Communications involving Khun Ying Pojaman Shinawat –Bannaphot Damaphong Case number : 1149/2550 commenced 26 March 2007


1.2 The sale of land in the Rachadapisek district by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) to KY. Pojaman Shinawat. Both Thaksin and Pojaman are defendants 


1.3 The case regarding the 2/3 number lottery project by the The Government Lottery Office. 32 political office holders and 16 officials.

2 Those cases which have been sent to the office of the auditor general but which were not decided by the Attorney General before the ASC ended its tenure: 



2.1 Projects regarding electrical cable laying at Suwannaphum airport involving former Minister of Transport Suriya Jungrungreangkit and a top official in the Ministry of Transport


2.2. Case involving baggage systems and CTX 9000 scanners at S.Airport involving 26 politicians, civil servants, officials of state enterprises, juristic persons, and entrepreneurs. Loss to the state estimated at 6, 937 million baht. 


2.3 Case involving “loan irregularities loan irregularities extended to the Krisda Mahanakorn Group” by the Krung Thai group. The case involves Thaksin, his son Panthongtae and 31 (former) board members of Krung Thai Bank. 


2.4 Five cases that allege the former prime minister Thaksin used his position to benefit his own businesses, causing loss to state assets. 


2.4.1 Case on the order to convert mobile phone operator concessions to an excise tax, leading to a loss of the Telephone organization of Thailand of 30, 667 million baht. 


2.4.2 Case regarding reducing revenue share paid to TST ทศท from prepaid mobile services from 25 to 20% leading to a state loss of 872 million baht.


2.4.3 Case relating to AIS and its reduction of payments by treating networks separately for payment purposes to TOT. Loss of 18970579711 baht during the term of the concession. This gain enabled rise in Shin Corp before its sale.


2.4.4 Various breaks given by the Board of Investment for IPSTAR satellite projects within Thailand. 


2.4.5 Case regarding Treasury officials in tax negotiations regarding the sale of Shin Corp. 



3. Those cases under consideration by the AEC but not forwarded to the OAG before 30th June. 



3.1 Case regarding Sky Train Airport link with losses to the state of 1, 200 million baht. 


3.2 Three Cases regarding Ua Athon housing project that involves builders, officials (3.2.1/3.2.2/3.2.3 ) 


3.3 A case involving the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and its dealings with private companies worth 300 million baht. 
3.4 The case involving the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority’s purchase of fire trucks involving a loss to the state of 1, 900 million baht. 


3.5 The cause of unusual wealth in Thaksin’s purchase of Manchester City



Here are the cases that were dropped. Seems thaksin gets more legal breaks than people give him credit for. But of course the narrative needs to be the poor shinawatra's persecuted by the courts and these need to be "forgotten" like the other charges against him.

4. Those cases which have been returned after the Attorney General determined not to proceed.



4.1 The Export-Import Bank and the loan to Burma (which involved purchase of Shin Corp products). Claimed loss of state amounting to 670,436,201 baht (EXIM) 140,349,000 (Treasury). Gains to Shin Corp 593,492,815 baht. 


4.2 Case involving Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and rubber plantations project. Loss to the state of 1, 400 million baht Case involves 44 people including Newin Chidchop, former Deputy Minister of Agriculture. Various accused are being asked to pay compensation of 1,109 million baht.



5. Those cases sent to the Tax office to recoup tax.



5.1 Pojaman Shinawat and Banaphot Damaphong transferred shares with no tax. Tax outstanding approximately 546 million baht. 


5.2 Thaksin’s children Phongthongtae and Thongtha Shinawat bought shares in Shin Corp from Ample Rich Invesment (164.6 million each) at a cost of 1 baht before they sold it to Temasak at 49.25 baht, which is subject to tax. In August 2550 requested Tax Department to seek payment of 11, 809, 294, 773 baht in tax. 


5. 3. Ample Rich tax issue, as it was active in Thailand for four years, but never paid tax.

As of right now there is one, solitary blemish on Thaksin's criminal record and it is the most idiotic and ridiculous conviction that would not stand up in any impartial, independent and just court.

Paying 10% above market value for a piece of land in a public auction.

Your list is worthless, plagiarised ( The Law is an Ass-et. Coups, Law and Corruption Cases ) garbage.

Propaganda that only the most anal and farcical ass-clown could read, believe and then excrete as fact.

(BTW - the list is also 6 years old and the conviction count still stands at 1- this fact in itself shows the worthlessness of the allegations and accusations contained within.)

Edited November 9, 2014 by Robespiere

[Robby nz]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

Another post from the Thaksin PR department.

You forgot to mention the 25,000 + cases of corruption that would have been forgiven or Thaksins 15 criminal cases that still are waiting for his return, then, as you note, all the deaths, injuries and destruction from the riots he instigated and funded.

Those who burnt Govt buildings, were caught with weapons of war, the men in black, those who fired the grenades which killed the army officer and the lady in the sky train station.

The red leaders who emerged from the riots as multi millionaires and PT MP's as reward for their urging their followers to violence and arson.

Those people that are still in jail because they were ignored by the PT Govt while in office, refusing to help them.

Then there is the rice pledging, those already convicted of corruption would have been forgiven and no more investigation would have taken place, we would have never known how much rice was stolen, disappeared, gone bad, we would never have known about the fake G2G deals that have already resulted in a conviction for "A close aid of Thaksin".

Corruption within the tablet scheme, the futsal courts, the list goes on.

And you try to compare with an amnesty for Abhisit and Suthep something they did not want and objected strenuously against, something which would not have been an amnesty but would have robbed them of an opportunity to clear their names.

[heybruce]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Right, let's go after those people who used violence and intimidation to disrupt the February election, starting with their leader. Thailand should also invalidate all self-granted amnesties for treasonous acts and prosecute those responsible for coups.

[Robespiere]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

hyperbole much? Lmao

Much?

In fact none at all!

1. Hyperbole (/haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-PUR-bə-lee; Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

Thailand literally needs to follow the truth and reconciliation path if they are to have any sort of functioning government and the Yellow side literally benefit a hell of a lot more from any sort of amnesty than the Reds do.

[Ozziepat]

Punish them! No, wait. Not them, THEM. You know, the NOT US them. Because, JUSTICE.

[Robespiere]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

Another post from the Thaksin PR department.

You forgot to mention the 25,000 + cases of corruption that would have been forgiven or Thaksins 15 criminal cases that still are waiting for his return, then, as you note, all the deaths, injuries and destruction from the riots he instigated and funded.

Those who burnt Govt buildings, were caught with weapons of war, the men in black, those who fired the grenades which killed the army officer and the lady in the sky train station.

The red leaders who emerged from the riots as multi millionaires and PT MP's as reward for their urging their followers to violence and arson.

Those people that are still in jail because they were ignored by the PT Govt while in office, refusing to help them.

Then there is the rice pledging, those already convicted of corruption would have been forgiven and no more investigation would have taken place, we would have never known how much rice was stolen, disappeared, gone bad, we would never have known about the fake G2G deals that have already resulted in a conviction for "A close aid of Thaksin".

Corruption within the tablet scheme, the futsal courts, the list goes on.

And you try to compare with an amnesty for Abhisit and Suthep something they did not want and objected strenuously against, something which would not have been an amnesty but would have robbed them of an opportunity to clear their names.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

From Mr Mandela:

"Great anger and violence can never build a nation. We are striving to proceed in a manner and towards a result, which will ensure that all our people, both black and white, emerge as victors.” (Speech to European Parliament, 1990)

“Without democracy there cannot be peace.” (South Africa, May 9, 1992)

[lungmi]

Pisico:

"Many people would not have a life if Thaksin had never existed."

or my version:

Many people would have a life if Thaksin had never existed.

[djjamie]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction

And then of course we have the "forgotten" charges against thaksin which have honestly slipped your mind.



1.1 Tax avoidance in transferring Shinawat Computer Inc. Communications involving Khun Ying Pojaman Shinawat –Bannaphot Damaphong Case number : 1149/2550 commenced 26 March 2007


1.2 The sale of land in the Rachadapisek district by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) to KY. Pojaman Shinawat. Both Thaksin and Pojaman are defendants 


1.3 The case regarding the 2/3 number lottery project by the The Government Lottery Office. 32 political office holders and 16 officials.

2 Those cases which have been sent to the office of the auditor general but which were not decided by the Attorney General before the ASC ended its tenure: 



2.1 Projects regarding electrical cable laying at Suwannaphum airport involving former Minister of Transport Suriya Jungrungreangkit and a top official in the Ministry of Transport


2.2. Case involving baggage systems and CTX 9000 scanners at S.Airport involving 26 politicians, civil servants, officials of state enterprises, juristic persons, and entrepreneurs. Loss to the state estimated at 6, 937 million baht. 


2.3 Case involving “loan irregularities loan irregularities extended to the Krisda Mahanakorn Group” by the Krung Thai group. The case involves Thaksin, his son Panthongtae and 31 (former) board members of Krung Thai Bank. 


2.4 Five cases that allege the former prime minister Thaksin used his position to benefit his own businesses, causing loss to state assets. 


2.4.1 Case on the order to convert mobile phone operator concessions to an excise tax, leading to a loss of the Telephone organization of Thailand of 30, 667 million baht. 


2.4.2 Case regarding reducing revenue share paid to TST ทศท from prepaid mobile services from 25 to 20% leading to a state loss of 872 million baht.


2.4.3 Case relating to AIS and its reduction of payments by treating networks separately for payment purposes to TOT. Loss of 18970579711 baht during the term of the concession. This gain enabled rise in Shin Corp before its sale.


2.4.4 Various breaks given by the Board of Investment for IPSTAR satellite projects within Thailand. 


2.4.5 Case regarding Treasury officials in tax negotiations regarding the sale of Shin Corp. 



3. Those cases under consideration by the AEC but not forwarded to the OAG before 30th June. 



3.1 Case regarding Sky Train Airport link with losses to the state of 1, 200 million baht. 


3.2 Three Cases regarding Ua Athon housing project that involves builders, officials (3.2.1/3.2.2/3.2.3 ) 


3.3 A case involving the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and its dealings with private companies worth 300 million baht. 
3.4 The case involving the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority’s purchase of fire trucks involving a loss to the state of 1, 900 million baht. 


3.5 The cause of unusual wealth in Thaksin’s purchase of Manchester City



Here are the cases that were dropped. Seems thaksin gets more legal breaks than people give him credit for. But of course the narrative needs to be the poor shinawatra's persecuted by the courts and these need to be "forgotten" like the other charges against him.

4. Those cases which have been returned after the Attorney General determined not to proceed.



4.1 The Export-Import Bank and the loan to Burma (which involved purchase of Shin Corp products). Claimed loss of state amounting to 670,436,201 baht (EXIM) 140,349,000 (Treasury). Gains to Shin Corp 593,492,815 baht. 


4.2 Case involving Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and rubber plantations project. Loss to the state of 1, 400 million baht Case involves 44 people including Newin Chidchop, former Deputy Minister of Agriculture. Various accused are being asked to pay compensation of 1,109 million baht.



5. Those cases sent to the Tax office to recoup tax.



5.1 Pojaman Shinawat and Banaphot Damaphong transferred shares with no tax. Tax outstanding approximately 546 million baht. 


5.2 Thaksin’s children Phongthongtae and Thongtha Shinawat bought shares in Shin Corp from Ample Rich Invesment (164.6 million each) at a cost of 1 baht before they sold it to Temasak at 49.25 baht, which is subject to tax. In August 2550 requested Tax Department to seek payment of 11, 809, 294, 773 baht in tax. 


5. 3. Ample Rich tax issue, as it was active in Thailand for four years, but never paid tax.

As of right now there is one, solitary blemish on Thaksin's criminal record and it is the most idiotic and ridiculous conviction that would not stand up in any impartial, independent and just court.

Paying 10% above market value for a piece of land in a public auction.

Your list is worthless, plagiarised ( The Law is an Ass-et. Coups, Law and Corruption Cases ) garbage.

Propaganda that only the most anal and farcical ass-clown could read, believe and then excrete as fact.

(BTW - the list is also 6 years old and the conviction count still stands at 1- this fact in itself shows the worthlessness of the allegations and accusations contained within.)

"Your list is worthless, plagiarized"

Thank you again for highlighting that the PTP dismiss charges as worthless when it does not suit their agenda. You inadvertently defended my argument. Thanks again.

Edited November 9, 2014 by djjamie

[baboon]

^^

And as for your list being plagiarised?

[Robespiere]

As of right now there is one, solitary blemish on Thaksin's criminal record and it is the most idiotic and ridiculous conviction that would not stand up in any impartial, independent and just court.

Paying 10% above market value for a piece of land in a public auction.

Your list is worthless, plagiarised ( The Law is an Ass-et. Coups, Law and Corruption Cases ) garbage.

Propaganda that only the most anal and farcical ass-clown could read, believe and then excrete as fact.

(BTW - the list is also 6 years old and the conviction count still stands at 1- this fact in itself shows the worthlessness of the allegations and accusations contained within.)

"Your list is worthless, plagiarized"

Thank you again for highlighting that the PTP dismiss charges as worthless when it does not suit their agenda. You inadvertently defended my argument. Thanks again.

How could anyone argue against such brilliance.

You are truly a rhetorical and dialectical giant, making dwarves of us all.

One query though, the 6 years with no further convictions thing - sort of screams out worthless, does it not?

[robblok]

As of right now there is one, solitary blemish on Thaksin's criminal record and it is the most idiotic and ridiculous conviction that would not stand up in any impartial, independent and just court.

Paying 10% above market value for a piece of land in a public auction.

Your list is worthless, plagiarised ( The Law is an Ass-et. Coups, Law and Corruption Cases ) garbage.

Propaganda that only the most anal and farcical ass-clown could read, believe and then excrete as fact.

(BTW - the list is also 6 years old and the conviction count still stands at 1- this fact in itself shows the worthlessness of the allegations and accusations contained within.)

"Your list is worthless, plagiarized"

Thank you again for highlighting that the PTP dismiss charges as worthless when it does not suit their agenda. You inadvertently defended my argument. Thanks again.

How could anyone argue against such brilliance.

You are truly a rhetorical and dialectical giant, making dwarves of us all.

One query though, the 6 years with no further convictions thing - sort of screams out worthless, does it not?

Unfortunately they dont go to trial if the person is not in Thailand. Your cowardly leader is avoiding the cases if they were worthless he would be in thailand fighting them. But he is a coward like many of his followers.

[ramrod711]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction

And then of course we have the "forgotten" charges against thaksin which have honestly slipped your mind.



1.1 Tax avoidance in transferring Shinawat Computer Inc. Communications involving Khun Ying Pojaman Shinawat Bannaphot Damaphong Case number : 1149/2550 commenced 26 March 2007


1.2 The sale of land in the Rachadapisek district by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) to KY. Pojaman Shinawat. Both Thaksin and Pojaman are defendants 


1.3 The case regarding the 2/3 number lottery project by the The Government Lottery Office. 32 political office holders and 16 officials.

2 Those cases which have been sent to the office of the auditor general but which were not decided by the Attorney General before the ASC ended its tenure: 



2.1 Projects regarding electrical cable laying at Suwannaphum airport involving former Minister of Transport Suriya Jungrungreangkit and a top official in the Ministry of Transport


2.2. Case involving baggage systems and CTX 9000 scanners at S.Airport involving 26 politicians, civil servants, officials of state enterprises, juristic persons, and entrepreneurs. Loss to the state estimated at 6, 937 million baht. 


2.3 Case involving loan irregularities loan irregularities extended to the Krisda Mahanakorn Group by the Krung Thai group. The case involves Thaksin, his son Panthongtae and 31 (former) board members of Krung Thai Bank. 


2.4 Five cases that allege the former prime minister Thaksin used his position to benefit his own businesses, causing loss to state assets. 


2.4.1 Case on the order to convert mobile phone operator concessions to an excise tax, leading to a loss of the Telephone organization of Thailand of 30, 667 million baht. 


2.4.2 Case regarding reducing revenue share paid to TST ทศท from prepaid mobile services from 25 to 20% leading to a state loss of 872 million baht.


2.4.3 Case relating to AIS and its reduction of payments by treating networks separately for payment purposes to TOT. Loss of 18970579711 baht during the term of the concession. This gain enabled rise in Shin Corp before its sale.


2.4.4 Various breaks given by the Board of Investment for IPSTAR satellite projects within Thailand. 


2.4.5 Case regarding Treasury officials in tax negotiations regarding the sale of Shin Corp. 



3. Those cases under consideration by the AEC but not forwarded to the OAG before 30th June. 



3.1 Case regarding Sky Train Airport link with losses to the state of 1, 200 million baht. 


3.2 Three Cases regarding Ua Athon housing project that involves builders, officials (3.2.1/3.2.2/3.2.3 ) 


3.3 A case involving the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and its dealings with private companies worth 300 million baht. 
3.4 The case involving the Bangkok Metropolitan Authoritys purchase of fire trucks involving a loss to the state of 1, 900 million baht. 


3.5 The cause of unusual wealth in Thaksins purchase of Manchester City



Here are the cases that were dropped. Seems thaksin gets more legal breaks than people give him credit for. But of course the narrative needs to be the poor shinawatra's persecuted by the courts and these need to be "forgotten" like the other charges against him.

4. Those cases which have been returned after the Attorney General determined not to proceed.



4.1 The Export-Import Bank and the loan to Burma (which involved purchase of Shin Corp products). Claimed loss of state amounting to 670,436,201 baht (EXIM) 140,349,000 (Treasury). Gains to Shin Corp 593,492,815 baht. 


4.2 Case involving Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and rubber plantations project. Loss to the state of 1, 400 million baht Case involves 44 people including Newin Chidchop, former Deputy Minister of Agriculture. Various accused are being asked to pay compensation of 1,109 million baht.



5. Those cases sent to the Tax office to recoup tax.



5.1 Pojaman Shinawat and Banaphot Damaphong transferred shares with no tax. Tax outstanding approximately 546 million baht. 


5.2 Thaksins children Phongthongtae and Thongtha Shinawat bought shares in Shin Corp from Ample Rich Invesment (164.6 million each) at a cost of 1 baht before they sold it to Temasak at 49.25 baht, which is subject to tax. In August 2550 requested Tax Department to seek payment of 11, 809, 294, 773 baht in tax. 


5. 3. Ample Rich tax issue, as it was active in Thailand for four years, but never paid tax.

Many people would not have a life if Thaksin had never existed.

The true nature of OCD

And approximately 3000 might still be alive if not for him.

[scorecard]

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Pt tried to change the constitution back to its original version that had been changed by the democrat party and the leaders of a coup. That made 40% of the Senate an unelected group to be appointed.
So it was okay to change the constitution by the Democrats.
But illegal to attempt to change it by the pt.
A constitutional change in other countries (even the smallest amendment) can take between 10 and 20 years of discussion and debate.
The change would be debated through several different parties . It would be debated through several courts and even after years may not get a change.
That's why it is loved and trusted in other countries. It is a sacred document that people can trust even when other laws fail us.
No 1 government, peoples, or court should have the right to alter a constitutional document without Many years of deliberation.
Nobody will trust a document that is thrown out every few years by a few people who do not like.
People in thailand are learning not to trust their own constitution. The question is " how does the new constitution get back the trust of the people"?

"But illegal to attempt to change it by the pt."

As always, inaccurate and misleading. No wonder fabie gave it a like.

[scorecard]

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As of right now there is one, solitary blemish on Thaksin's criminal record and it is the most idiotic and ridiculous conviction that would not stand up in any impartial, independent and just court.

Paying 10% above market value for a piece of land in a public auction.

Your list is worthless, plagiarised ( The Law is an Ass-et. Coups, Law and Corruption Cases ) garbage.

Propaganda that only the most anal and farcical ass-clown could read, believe and then excrete as fact.

(BTW - the list is also 6 years old and the conviction count still stands at 1- this fact in itself shows the worthlessness of the allegations and accusations contained within.)

"Your list is worthless, plagiarized"

Thank you again for highlighting that the PTP dismiss charges as worthless when it does not suit their agenda. You inadvertently defended my argument. Thanks again.

How could anyone argue against such brilliance.

You are truly a rhetorical and dialectical giant, making dwarves of us all.

One query though, the 6 years with no further convictions thing - sort of screams out worthless, does it not?

Actually no it doesn't. There are reasons as you know full well, it's called money, power and influence paying the party members to turn a blind eye and ensure cases don't proceed.