Angry over Israeli's planned speech, Dems hope to limit harm

[snarky66]

Since you guys brought it up. If Biden Pelosi CDC and others wish to boycott speech I am all for that. The American people should see that these people are rats skunks lairs and traitors.

[sirineou]

obama is quite adept at political game playing ... trying to nullify the 2014 November election surges by unilaterally announcing an unconstitutional amnesty just after the election to defuse the effect of such a loss... Disrespect to the president ... obama deserves no respect... his entire Administration record is anti-American ... The words respect and obama are oxymorons ...

This Thread is about Natanyahu's speech to joint house, do you have any argument against what I said in the subject, or is your argument that the President does not deserve respect? so no governing protocol apply

No - the thread is about "Replying to Angry over Israeli's planned speech, Dems hope to limit harm" ... the headline does not mention Netanyahu's name .. But actually - BOTH.

obama is the king of disrespect displayed to Netanyahu and others and he deserves no respect in any matter. obama is an EMPTY SUIT and has nothing of intellect or consequence to say ... My post to your post is self-explanatory.

The anger It is not over "Israeli's speech" is over Netanyahus speech. The title of the article is a simple propaganda devise, apparent to anyone with more than a sixth grade education.

calling Obama names or using bold text does nothing to defeat the original points I made about Congrese's attempt to affect the Israeli election an the Iranian nuclear negotiations.

PS: sorry about the removed quotes, too many quotes reply. if the removed quotes affect the context of some of the replies I apologize.

[Morch]

Since you guys brought it up. If Biden Pelosi CDC and others wish to boycott speech I am all for that. The American people should see that these people are rats skunks lairs and traitors.

Not showing up for Netanyahu's speech is treason?

[dexterm]

I find this Israeli cringe mentality totally weird.

Democrats seething with anger because Netanyahu is bad mannered enough to accept an invitation secretly above the head the POTUS, but unable to voice their feelings for fear of upsetting the Jewish vote. While Republicans gleefully applaud the Democrats’ frustration and the humiliation of their own President

This episode alone dismisses all counter claims as to who exactly is running the most powerful country in the world...the elected government (twice) or some pariah state 6.000 miles away, rapidly descending into racist tribal mayhem.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. It could happen nowhere else in the world.

I would be bemused if it had not such tragic consequences for the people in the Middle East.

Politicians taking care not to upset voters is something new? Unique to the USA?

How does that amount to "running the most powerful country in the world", exactly?

Your usual wishful thinking about Israel being "pariah" is not actually supported by anything, you just keep repeating it hoping for it to catch on, somehow. Israel was no kicked out of any international organization lately, and is on reasonable terms with many countries. Try harder.

IMO, this is more about the current state of partisan politics in the USA, and the constant petty tit-for-tat which goes with it. As far as I recall, AIPAC was not even directly involved in the invitation fiasco. Not sure what the Democrats are scared of, really, the notion that the Jewish voters will change their traditional voting patterns en masse over this is not realistic. There are enough Jewish voters who do not approve of Netanyahu's speech.

Caring not to upset voters whose allegiance to a foreign power seems to outweigh their love of USA and who wield such enormous power...yes, that’s unique!

No candidate for US President would ever make it without the approval of AIPAC, and their getting USA involved in 2 major wars...that’s what I mean by Israelis running USA.

A country such as Israel that has violated more UN resolutions (95) than all UN members combined is a pariah state in my book.

There are academic boycotts against Israel, and the EU has already banned some products from Israel...more to follow I hope. It's the only thing that will make the Zionists see sense.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

So much for Israel fighting Islamic radicals that they created in the first place, and the integrity and fortitude of Netanyahu is just plain laughable.

Oh, Israel created the radicals. I thought you guys said it was the US. How can I keep up, lol.

[Morch]

I find this Israeli cringe mentality totally weird.

Democrats seething with anger because Netanyahu is bad mannered enough to accept an invitation secretly above the head the POTUS, but unable to voice their feelings for fear of upsetting the Jewish vote. While Republicans gleefully applaud the Democrats’ frustration and the humiliation of their own President

This episode alone dismisses all counter claims as to who exactly is running the most powerful country in the world...the elected government (twice) or some pariah state 6.000 miles away, rapidly descending into racist tribal mayhem.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. It could happen nowhere else in the world.

I would be bemused if it had not such tragic consequences for the people in the Middle East.

Politicians taking care not to upset voters is something new? Unique to the USA?

How does that amount to "running the most powerful country in the world", exactly?

Your usual wishful thinking about Israel being "pariah" is not actually supported by anything, you just keep repeating it hoping for it to catch on, somehow. Israel was no kicked out of any international organization lately, and is on reasonable terms with many countries. Try harder.

IMO, this is more about the current state of partisan politics in the USA, and the constant petty tit-for-tat which goes with it. As far as I recall, AIPAC was not even directly involved in the invitation fiasco. Not sure what the Democrats are scared of, really, the notion that the Jewish voters will change their traditional voting patterns en masse over this is not realistic. There are enough Jewish voters who do not approve of Netanyahu's speech.

Caring not to upset voters whose allegiance to a foreign power seems to outweigh their love of USA and who wield such enormous power...yes, that’s unique!

No candidate for US President would ever make it without the approval of AIPAC, and their getting USA involved in 2 major wars...that’s what I mean by Israelis running USA.

A country such as Israel that has violated more UN resolutions (95) than all UN members combined is a pariah state in my book.

There are academic boycotts against Israel, and the EU has already banned some products from Israel...more to follow I hope. It's the only thing that will make the Zionists see sense.

So now you're basically accusing USA Jewish voters of treason? Well done.

Not Israel, nor AIPAC got the USA involved in two major wars. Not even if you keep posting the same over and over again.

Your "book" is not an international standard. The amount of UN resolutions would rather be indicative of disproportional focus on Israel by the UN. The current scope and effect of boycotts on Israel is minimal - when it becomes a major issue, feel free to bring it up again. Until then, the "pariah" thing is fantasy.

[sirineou]

and they are off to the races

where are the mods?

This thread is about Netanyahus invitation ro speak to Congress, and whether it was appropriate for congress to do so, so only a couple intelligent, apropos replies, a lot of name calling, and some pseudo-history

[up-country_sinclair]

It was not so long ago that a Republican administration barred Netanyahu from entering US State Department buildings.

[snarky66]

We, the American people want Bibi to speak to a joint session of Congress. obama's opinion doesn't matter. His personal animosity toward Jews! Benjamin Netanyahu and the state of israel is well known. He likes to throw tantrums when he doesn't get his own way.

[Jingthing]

We, the American people want Bibi to speak to a joint session of Congress. obama's opinion doesn't matter. His personal animosity toward Jews! Benjamin Netanyahu and the state of israel is well known. He likes to throw tantrums when he doesn't get his own way.

I don't think Obama is antisemitic but I do think he doesn't like Netanyahu and it's personal. That feeling is obviously mutual. It's unfortunate.

[sirineou]

We, the American people want Bibi to speak to a joint session of Congress. obama's opinion doesn't matter. His personal animosity toward Jews! Benjamin Netanyahu and the state of israel is well known. He likes to throw tantrums when he doesn't get his own way.

I don't think Obama is antisemitic but I do think he doesn't like Netanyahu and it's personal. That feeling is obviously mutual. It's unfortunate.

aside any personal differences Obama might have with Netanyahu there are foreign policy issues involved here.

firstly, there is a national election in Israel in three weeks, this Congressional address will boost Netanyahu's and his parties prospects,

Secondly , Netanyahu is an outspoken opponent of Obama's policy to negotiate with Iran over it's nuclear program, and sanctions and I am sure he will take this opportunity to undercut Obama's policy in his speech

and thirdly it is a calculated attempt for political upmanship for political gain, with disregard of US interests.

Obama and his administration have every right to be upset wit all three of the above points

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, troll, baiting posts and replies have been removed.

The thread centers on the US Congress/White House position on Netanyahu's invitation to speak and on the differences between the situation with Iran's nuclear program.

Please stay on-topic.

[mania]

We, the American people want Bibi to speak to a joint session of Congress. .

No..."We"....do not

See? "We" were obviously not asked

As to the OP

I care for neither Dem nor Repub side & think they both are an embarrassment to the citizens of the USA

but, I do not think the Dems have as much to fear from this as the OP would like to imply.

As always there are folks on both sides of any fence & many who are quite unhappy with

Israels actions & also unhappy with the US constant brown nosing of such actions. They will side where they usually do

This is all just another little show.

Edited February 8, 2015 by mania

[Morch]

It was not so long ago that a Republican administration barred Netanyahu from entering US State Department buildings.

It was 25 years ago...?

James Baker weighs in: I once barred Netanyahu from State DepartmentWASHINGTON – Insults fly frequently between Israel and the US – at least, between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his American colleagues, former secretary of state James Baker said.

“These kinds of things happen all the time,” Baker told CNN on Sunday, responding to a spike in tensions between Washington and Jerusalem after an unnamed US official was quoted insulting the prime minister.

As head of the State Department under president George H.W. Bush in 1990, Baker said that Netanyahu, then deputy foreign minister, was barred from the building after saying American foreign policy in the Middle East was “based on lies and distortions.”

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Former-statesman-offers-perspective-on-Netanyahu-tensions-380656

Interesting to note that Baker doesn't seem too excited about the situation.

Not that it's quite the same, of course, but if saying American foreign policy in the Middle East was “based on lies and distortions.” was the criteria for being barred from the State Department - many TVF members would have been left at the gate.

To further put things in perspective, it was about 10 years ago when Narendra Modi was denied entry to the USA. Of course, that was prior to being elected as Prime Minister of India.

[NoBrainer]

Since you guys brought it up. If Biden Pelosi CDC and others wish to boycott speech I am all for that. The American people should see that these people are rats skunks lairs and traitors.

I take it you are referring to the Israelis of course. Couldn't have come up with a better description myself.

[up-country_sinclair]

Even the chairman of the Anti-Defamation League has called on Netanyahu to cancel this campaign appearance.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-director-urges-netanyahu-to-cancel-congress-speech/

[up-country_sinclair]

James Baker is as calculating a man that anyone will ever come across. He didn't have to volunteer that information about Netanyahu being barred from the US State Department, but he did. Again, he wasn't asked directly about the incident, he just brought it up. At this particular moment. This was not a mistake or a lapse in judgement on Secretary Baker's part.

[ggold]

We, the American people want Bibi to speak to a joint session of Congress. obama's opinion doesn't matter. His personal animosity toward Jews! Benjamin Netanyahu and the state of israel is well known. He likes to throw tantrums when he doesn't get his own way.

I don't think Obama is antisemitic but I do think he doesn't like Netanyahu and it's personal. That feeling is obviously mutual. It's unfortunate.

aside any personal differences Obama might have with Netanyahu there are foreign policy issues involved here.

firstly, there is a national election in Israel in three weeks, this Congressional address will boost Netanyahu's and his parties prospects,

Secondly , Netanyahu is an outspoken opponent of Obama's policy to negotiate with Iran over it's nuclear program, and sanctions and I am sure he will take this opportunity to undercut Obama's policy in his speech

and thirdly it is a calculated attempt for political upmanship for political gain, with disregard of US interests.

Obama and his administration have every right to be upset wit all three of the above points

and thirdly it is a calculated attempt for political upmanship for political gain, with disregard of US interests

OK so for 40 odd years US interests did not include Iran becoming a Nuclear power. Now it is in the US interests that Iran become one! Really?

Yet having got rid of nuclear missiles from Cuba, The US was incapable of making peace with a small island 90 miles of it's coast for more than 60 years and counting!

right now I'm wondering what is in the US interest?

This is really the failure of US politicians and the disfunction of the US government body as a whole. Netanyahu has got in the middle of that fight between Democrats and republicans. What he has to say about Iran becoming Nuclear is very much in the interests of the US Just not it's President!

Edited February 8, 2015 by ggold

[Steely Dan]

I think Netanyahu is better dealing with the political fallout from upsetting the most incompetent U.S president in history than dealing with nuclear fallout after a bomb lands, due to Obama capitulating to Iran, as he capitulates to every challenge he faces.

[Ulysses G.]

Hear, hear.

[Jingthing]

The speech is politically controversial in Israel as well. Personally, I agree with the Israeli opposition on this one.

Herzog calls Netanyahu's US speech a strategic mistake

Israel’s relationship with the US “is strategic and not political. It should stay that way,” Herzog said.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-Elections/Herzog-calls-on-Netanyahu-to-cancel-Congress-speech-meets-with-Kerry-390307

A chorus of Israeli politicians urge Netanyahu to cancel US Congress Iran speech
"The time has come when Bibi [Netanyahu] must announce that he is canceling his speech before Congress," Herzog said.

"This speech which was born in sin, as part of an election campaign endangers the security of the citizens of Israel and the special relations it has with the US."

"With all due respect to his campaign, Bibi must lead as a patriot of Israel and not throw Israel's security under the bus of the election," he added.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/A-chorus-of-Israeli-politicians-urge-Netanyahu-to-cancel-US-Congress-Iran-speech-390283

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[jcb2001]

Perhaps they should listen to what he has to say first. There's plenty of time to get angry afterwards.

I don't think they are angry about what he has to say, but about the processes used to invite him to speak.

but I like your suggestion, is that a policy we should apply to all world leaders or just Israeli?

The three branches of government are separate but equal.

Congress has the right to invite whomever they wish to address their body. Why should they get the permission of the Executive Branch to invite a speaker?

Using your logic, the Judicial Branch might need to request input from the Legislative Branch as to which cases the SCOTUS should hear.

Following that same train of thought, the Executive Branch perhaps should have consulted the Judicial Branch to see if the many Executive Orders and Memoranda were Constitutional before the President signed them.

None of that happened nor is it required.

it is not my logic,I am just telling you why they are angry

Speaker John Boehner showed disrespect to the president – and perhaps cynical political goals – when he invited Netanyahu to address a House-Senate gathering next month. Presidents can't veto congressional speakers, but they usually are consulted. Especially when the speech and the speaker have foreign policy implications!!!!!!!!!!!

​as you said the different branches are independent, and do have different functions , Foreign policy is a function of the Executive, and Legislative is the function of Congress,

do you think Netanyahu's speech would have legislative implications or do you think it would have a foreign policy aspect.

​If as you said , you support the separation of power, then you surely must reject , Congress's thinly veiled attempt to inject it's self in foreign policy, affect the election in Israel in three weeks!! and in the process score some points with Jewish voters in the US.

Really??? And what about Obama reaching into the area of the Legislative Branch with his executive actions. Obama does this and thinks its OK? Now, Obama is complaining about Boehner inviting a foreign dignitary to speak to the world, through an invite from Congress? Give me a break! Sorry Obama, you brought this on yourself.

[Morch]

James Baker is as calculating a man that anyone will ever come across. He didn't have to volunteer that information about Netanyahu being barred from the US State Department, but he did. Again, he wasn't asked directly about the incident, he just brought it up. At this particular moment. This was not a mistake or a lapse in judgement on Secretary Baker's part.

That's a nice theory, only the interview with Baker was conducted prior to the invitation fiasco. The context was to do with the alleged chikenxxxt comment.

That Baker says many would not know about it odd - it was made public by the USA at the time, and it appears on his 1995 book (The Politics of Diplomacy). The crux of what Baker was getting at is that such difficulties and incidents are part of international diplomacy, and that things need to move on regardless. At the same time, Baker was obviously not too worried of barring Netanyahu at the time - so more than one lesson to be learned from this anecdote.

The interview can be seen here, relevant bit starts at 6:12 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-hE3nKtpqw

[Morch]

Even the chairman of the Anti-Defamation League has called on Netanyahu to cancel this campaign appearance.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-director-urges-netanyahu-to-cancel-congress-speech/

Which again makes me wonder what the Democrats are scared of? Not as if there's overwhelming support for Netnayahu making his speech even amongst Jewish voters.

[Jingthing]

Even the chairman of the Anti-Defamation League has called on Netanyahu to cancel this campaign appearance.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-director-urges-netanyahu-to-cancel-congress-speech/

Which again makes me wonder what the Democrats are scared of? Not as if there's overwhelming support for Netnayahu making his speech even amongst Jewish voters.

I am pretty sure American Jews are overwhelmingly against support for Israel becoming more of a partisan issue in the U.S. Netanyahu's clumsy move is doing exactly that. How much damage he is doing, history will tell, but I think he not only disrespects the U.S. president but also the diaspora Jews in the U.S. (who yes vote overwhelmingly for the democrats and will continue to do so).

Whatever deal that is made between Iran and the U.S. is the going to happen (or not) ... if Netanyahu thinks this will be a better deal from the POV of Israel by insulting the U.S. president and trying to make support for Israel a partisan republican issue, he is playing a dangerous game.

I have not hated everything Netanyahu has done, but I hate this. None of my business, but I hope Israel DUMPS him.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Looking at the long term bigger picture here, regardless of how people feel about Obama, which is of course divided. In the long term Israel is damaging the OVERALL relationship with the U.S. and the only question is how badly. This development I am sure pleases anti-Zionists ... it doesn't please me.

Also of course Obama is not Muslim, not that there is anything wrong with being an American Muslim any more than being an American Hindu/Jew/Buddhist/Christian, etc., but realistically the U.S. is not going to have a Muslim president for a very long time (if ever).

Right wingers, whether American, Israeli, Jewish or not, consider the knee jerk support of Netanyahu dissing Obama just because you hate Obama is really questionable considering that anti-Zionists are thrilled to see the USA-Israel relationship damaged.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[ggold]

Looking at the long term bigger picture here, regardless of how people feel about Obama, which is of course divided. In the long term Israel is damaging the OVERALL relationship with the U.S. and the only question is how badly. This development I am sure pleases anti-Zionists ... it doesn't please me.

Also of course Obama is not Muslim, not that there is anything wrong with being an American Muslim any more than being an American Hindu/Jew/Buddhist/Christian, etc., but realistically the U.S. is not going to have a Muslim president for a very long time (if ever).

Right wingers, whether American, Israeli, Jewish or not, consider the knee jerk support of Netanyahu dissing Obama just because you hate Obama is really questionable considering that anti-Zionists are thrilled to see the USA-Israel relationship damaged.

I think it has more to do with the democratic party trying to save it self. They blindly think it is by standing behind Obama! I note that Obama seems to have upset the Christians, by trying to compare ISIS with the crusades! Are you sure he is not Muslim?

I am not sure how that overall relationship plays out now. I understand what you mean, But for Israel it goes deeper than any one relationship. "Never gain" is the philosophy. Israel would turn to Russia or China. America already warned Israel about getting to close to China! So Maybe this is about how much influence America has over world affairs when so much damage has been done by/and the lack of respect Obama has from those allies! Other than the usual puppies who still jump when told to!

If Israel needs America, America needs Israel on an equal basis. I know a lot is made of the financial help, and the Jewish lobby. But that financial help is mostly military, America benefits from that as much as Israel, not just financially. So that leaves the Jewish lobby! well if push comes to shove, they can go get screwed.

Obama may have shown Israel that Israel may not need America!

[ggold]

who in America agrees with Obama's policies towards Iran?

[Ulysses G.]

Almost no one other than the far left. They would be more than happy to allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons to show how "fair" they are to Muslims. They would do the same thing if ISIS grew strong enough and so would Barack Obama.

[chuckd]

who in America agrees with Obama's policies towards Iran?

Valerie Jarrett.