Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Gulfsailor]

10 July 2015 Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

Police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.

U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case, Aung Myo Thant said. A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

Uh Oh indeed!

[jdinasia]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

Perhaps they are keeping what they know close to their chest. It would be pointless holding a trump card and declaring what it is early in the game.

That could mean their lives are in danger - hope they have competent body guards

I agree (not to lives in danger, )but as of now the defense statements are just buzz. I don't know how much that buzz affects the case in front of the judges, but it riles up the folks that are pro 2 Burmese defendants.

[Rykbanlor]

Christ, it wears you down hearing all these conflicting statements and misunderstandings.

How hard can it be to get these things straight. Like there aren't enough bilingual reporters, translators etc available.

[elgordo38]

(BBC) Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists, Thai police have told the BBC.

This whole case is a farce !!!

If the DNA evidence was the only evidence that was used by the police to convict these two boys then surely based on it's absence in court and the defense team being un-able to submit it for re-testing to prove that it really was that of the defendants (or that it really existed) then this case in front of judge & jury surely must be thrown out !!

Quote CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries unquote. Its funny how all of a sudden they are quoting what is the norm for foreign countries. Usually their stance is that is Thailand is unique in the ways in which it does things. I would want the retesting done in another country as there is now to much of the BB DNA floating around here.

[jdinasia]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan is actually a highly respected forensic scientist and is independant. She has worked on numerous cases and has, in the past, turned police cases upside down by showing evidence that the parties were infact innocent. A good step for the case, either way.

Issue remains, where is the British police report?

She lost her credibility with her repeated endorsement of the fake bomb detectors even after they had been proven to be a total fraud.

The British police report is not and cannot be part of this Thai judiclal procedure. Stop holding your breath.

Oh, the tired argument about the bomb detectors. Bomb detectors aren't her specialty. That's what military experts are supposed to do, and Thai military experts were completely wrong, even when the rest of the world knew the detectors were useless, expensive scams. Her specialty is crime forensics.

And to try and thwart Brit experts' findings on forensics - show you to be another apologist for Thai officialdom's many mistakes. Are you also shielding the Headman's family members who were, and still should be prime suspects?

The GT200 was supposed to be a forensic tool. Something that could detect trace evidence. It certainly could not do that.

Khunying Pornthip was supposed to be the best forensic expert in Thailand. Her continued support for the GT200 most certainly damaged her credibility.

If she's got such damaged credibility (in your view) why was she recently re appointed as head of Forensics. mmmm Who made that appointment, could it have been the Juntas cabinet, oh dear yes it was.

Her unfailing support for the GT200? The conspiracy theorists suggest that this goes to the very top. You say that folks at the very top want her in the position.

Her willingness to toe the line in support of a fake bomb detector when speaking out against it would have hurt efforts in the Deep South?

For me her credibility is severely impacted when dealing with the UK. The device she endorsed was found to be a scam in a UK court and the guy selling them was jailed.

[Thaddeus]

Christ, it wears you down hearing all these conflicting statements and misunderstandings.

How hard can it be to get these things straight. Like there aren't enough bilingual reporters, translators etc available.

It's like watching Stan & Ollie move a piano.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Thaddeus

[Gweiloman]

10 July 2015

Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

Police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.

“U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

And so the comedy of errors continue. One thing about lying is that one needs to keep inventing more and more creative lies to try and uphold the first lie.

Always best to tell the truth because the story will then be always consistent.

[minikev]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

Perhaps they are keeping what they know close to their chest. It would be pointless holding a trump card and declaring what it is early in the game.

That could mean their lives are in danger - hope they have competent body guards

I agree (not to lives in danger, )but as of now the defense statements are just buzz. I don't know how much that buzz affects the case in front of the judges, but it riles up the folks that are pro 2 Burmese defendants.

The defence up to now should have no affect on the judges as they are not up to bat yet. The prosecution are stating their case which is all that should be of interest. However I haven't heard of any shocking new or strong evidence in their favour yet. Just reports of not knowing which evidence they actually still have. Pretty weak really.

[cumgranosalum]

Clearly a lot of people with something to say about this - lets hope that it spills out into the international media and Thailand's media popular becomes aware or gets to hear what the rest of the world thinks of their deplorable mishandling of this tragedy.

[cumgranosalum]

lost or not?

this makes it look worthless in the first place....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33457383

[kiwikeith]

(BBC) Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists, Thai police have told the BBC.

This whole case is a farce !!!

If the DNA evidence was the only evidence that was used by the police to convict these two boys then surely based on it's absence in court and the defense team being un-able to submit it for re-testing to prove that it really was that of the defendants (or that it really existed) then this case in front of judge & jury surely must be thrown out !!

Exactly, and further to there being no DNA to test, there is also the threatening of the Sky News reporters translater by alleged mafia.

A complete farce and must be thrown our of court, the longer it goes on the more worse it looks for the Thai Police and the justice system.

[notmyself]

Clearly a lot of people with something to say about this - lets hope that it spills out into the international media and Thailand's media popular becomes aware or gets to hear what the rest of the world thinks of their deplorable mishandling of this tragedy.

I'm in the UK at the moment and it is all over the media.

[Rykbanlor]

Christ, it wears you down hearing all these conflicting statements and misunderstandings.

How hard can it be to get these things straight. Like there aren't enough bilingual reporters, translators etc available.

It's like watching Stan & Ollie move a piano.

55555. To be honest, i'd sooner trust them....

[elgordo38]

Did the police really think that this would be a cake walk and that nobody would challenge them. At least it looks like the boys will get a fair shake and it will not be a Kangaroo Court. I to believe that they are innocent and the guilty party will never be found. He is long gone sipping tea with the Red Bull heir. It is becoming more and more apparent that the rich can run and the poor go to prison. Its not just in Thailand its world wide. The priviledges of the rich are becoming more apparent/blatant every day. No silver spoon in my mouth. When I was born the doctors stamped "Worker" on my torso.

[Gweiloman]

Christ, it wears you down hearing all these conflicting statements and misunderstandings.

How hard can it be to get these things straight. Like there aren't enough bilingual reporters, translators etc available.

Extremely hard. They've been frightened off by the mafia, lol

[thailandchilli]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan is actually a highly respected forensic scientist and is independant. She has worked on numerous cases and has, in the past, turned police cases upside down by showing evidence that the parties were infact innocent. A good step for the case, either way.

Issue remains, where is the British police report?

She lost her credibility with her repeated endorsement of the fake bomb detectors even after they had been proven to be a total fraud.

The British police report is not and cannot be part of this Thai judiclal procedure. Stop holding your breath.

Oh, the tired argument about the bomb detectors. Bomb detectors aren't her specialty. That's what military experts are supposed to do, and Thai military experts were completely wrong, even when the rest of the world knew the detectors were useless, expensive scams. Her specialty is crime forensics.

And to try and thwart Brit experts' findings on forensics - show you to be another apologist for Thai officialdom's many mistakes. Are you also shielding the Headman's family members who were, and still should be prime suspects?

The GT200 was supposed to be a forensic tool. Something that could detect trace evidence. It certainly could not do that.

Khunying Pornthip was supposed to be the best forensic expert in Thailand. Her continued support for the GT200 most certainly damaged her credibility.

If she's got such damaged credibility (in your view) why was she recently re appointed as head of Forensics. mmmm Who made that appointment, could it have been the Juntas cabinet, oh dear yes it was.

Her unfailing support for the GT200? The conspiracy theorists suggest that this goes to the very top. You say that folks at the very top want her in the position.

Her willingness to toe the line in support of a fake bomb detector when speaking out against it would have hurt efforts in the Deep South?

For me her credibility is severely impacted when dealing with the UK. The device she endorsed was found to be a scam in a UK court and the guy selling them was jailed.

Good for you but her position is Thailand is Head of Forensics

My opinion by the way is if the DNA is retested then it should be done by an independent body, the Forensic Science Institute of Thailand is not an independent body.

[Gweiloman]

lost or not?

this makes it look worthless in the first place....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33457383

If this is indeed true, then whatever DNA evidence there may be (or not) should become inadmissible due to conflict of interest. Otherwise, there's no point in having a trial at all.

[elgordo38]

And Jesus wept. Not much else to say. For a officer of the law to make a statement like this is just unconscionable inexcusable.

[Lorn]

So many things are wrong with this case. It would be helpful if someone took the time to list each event pertaining to the case in chronological order. For instance, Is it true one of the first headlines pertaining to this case was that the police wish to arrest the headman's son, then the policeman leading the case was taken off it, a new guy took over and immediately proclaimed the headman's son innocent happily taking smiling pictures with him for the media? The new policeman on the case said forensic DNA evidence proved the headman's son was innocent. How could this be? Apparently there is no DNA testing available on Kho Tao so the evidence has to go to Bangkok where it takes about 48 hours to process. Then the (alleged) doctored CCTV puts the headman's son in Bangkok the day after the murders, but there are many who saw him on KT on day of murder. All very suspicious behavior.

1. The crime scene is totally contaminated with hundreds turning up for a media circus on the beach.

2. Headlines that the headman's son is wanted for the murder, the chief of police investigation is taken off the case then immediately the new chief on the case proclaims the headman's son innocent.

3. The police keep making contradictory statements to the media.

4. Headlines that a Scotsman flees the Island after allegedly being threatened and hounded by a "mafia" gang who threaten to pin the case on him and hang him in the woods.

5. A man claims he is allegedly beaten up and tortured by police trying to frame him for the murders.

6. Two Burmese young men make confessions then immediately allege they were beaten up and tortured to extract the confessions.

7. Confusion over ownership of mobile phones makes the evidence look weak.

8. The Prime Minister congratulates the police on a job well done!

9. The police claim the evidence is perfect.

10. The courts keep telling the police the evidence is not good enough to be presented in court and ask them to go back and improve their case.

11. Claims from Britain they have DNA evidence that contradicts the police DNA results.

12. The defense asks the court to re-examine the DNA but it has all gone missing or has been used up. Effectively, there is no DNA evidence for presentation to the court. Only the police word that it was "perfect"

13. The head of police threaten the defense team outside the court telling them they should be supporting the police not the accused!

Am I missing anything important?

no investigation of the headmans's family

whitewashing event of Nomsod with the National police head

9. They didn't say the evidence was perfect. They said the investigation was perfect. Even a perfect investigation may not provide perfect evidence for many reasons (bad luck, perpetrator being smart and careful).

[Rykbanlor]

Christ, it wears you down hearing all these conflicting statements and misunderstandings.

How hard can it be to get these things straight. Like there aren't enough bilingual reporters, translators etc available.

Extremely hard. They've been frightened off by the mafia, lol

Yeah, as soon as I hit post I thought: hmmm, actually.....

[elgordo38]

Boy we have sure gone back to the dark ages in the blink of an eye. Sorry I think Justice has left the building.

Edited July 10, 2015 by elgordo38

[ukrules]

Who are the judges on this trial and what kind of track record do they have ?

[stephenterry]

10 July 2015

Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

Police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.

“U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

And so the comedy of errors continue. One thing about lying is that one needs to keep inventing more and more creative lies to try and uphold the first lie.

Always best to tell the truth because the story will then be always consistent.

The police officer must be right, the migrant garbage collector is mistaken. While my statement is sarcastic, it highlights the difficulties the defence has to discredit an officer duty-bound to uphold the law, and thus a more credible witness than a migrant garbage cleaner who is just sticking up for his countrymen. Could the PO be one of JLC's perjured witnesses? Or is it U Oh?

[kiwikeith]

Clearly a lot of people with something to say about this - lets hope that it spills out into the international media and Thailand's media popular becomes aware or gets to hear what the rest of the world thinks of their deplorable mishandling of this tragedy.

I'm in the UK at the moment and it is all over the media.

Hi, has it been on UK media about the lost DNA and the threatening of the Sky news translater by alleged mafia??

[boomerangutang]

There is mention that evidence from the UK contradicts evidence from the RTP and a lot of speculation as to what that is. Mostly focusing on contradictory DNA testing. As far as I know the UK authorities had no business testing for the accused DNA and would not have done so. The only DNA samples they would have been able to match would have been those of the 2 victims. I speculate that possibly either no foreign DNA was found in or on Hanna or if there was it belonged to David. This would indeed contradict the RTP version that she was raped by the accused and their sperm was found. That is not to say they didn't kill her but it would indeed cast doubt on the veracity of RTP evidence. Hopefully the truth will emerge.

Yeah! Agree! This is what I said to. Since there were not allowed to bring evidence home, and did not get a sample from the accused, then all they could have is what they found on the bodies.

So if there is contradiction, then it has to be something that has to do with that. Perhaps what you said. But we will find out soon, I suppose.

Maybe this sounds naive, but I grew up assuming law enforcement's duties were to protect people, lessen crime, and find/convict criminals and put them away. Anyone looking objectively at Thai law enforcement would get a different view. They'd see an organization which is enmeshed in secret dealings cloaked in catering to special interests. If they were doing their duties, they would be cooperating with Brit law enforcement, which includes providing DNA samples for ALL persons of interest. It is assumed British authorities want to know what really happened, but by all indications, they're in the same objuscation soup as the Thais. Can any authorities openly tell the truth ? Looking at all the shanigans, the answer is 'NO.' How about we get the Israelis or the French involved. They know how to solve crimes.

But this found Condom can be puzzling. It shows it was used on Hannah, but for what, where, and why, are not known.

If it only had a drop of Hannah's blood on the outside, then it's probably blood splatter, and is of no more consequence to the case than a rock with a drop of blood on it. No more important to the case than the cig butt. Also, rapists don't use condoms.

So the DNA is in Bkk. So nobody thought to request it prior to a double murder case?

Just turn up with a trolley with a hoe and a guitar in it. Oh and a testimony from the police with an attached photo of them all pointing at the B2.

Give 'em a break. They only had 10 months to get the evidence together. Remember when NASA made a formal request to the Thai gov't for a center in Chon Buri, and asked for a decision within the year? The Yingluck gov't forgot all about it, until NASA reminded them 11 months later.

[thailandchilli]

[Lorn]

10 July 2015

Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

Police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.

“U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

And so the comedy of errors continue. One thing about lying is that one needs to keep inventing more and more creative lies to try and uphold the first lie.

Always best to tell the truth because the story will then be always consistent.

The police officer must be right, the migrant garbage collector is mistaken. While my statement is sarcastic, it highlights the difficulties the defence has to discredit an officer duty-bound to uphold the law, and thus a more credible witness than a migrant garbage cleaner who is just sticking up for his countrymen. Could the PO be one of JLC's perjured witnesses? Or is it U Oh?

Many on here have commented for months how ridiculous it was the RTP sticking to the story of the hoe being the murder weapon considering what the wounds looked like. But of course according to a few- the rtp had the murder weapon as "evidence" and anything else (including testing and expert opinions on the likely weapons used) were of course conspiracy theories and hearsay. As others have said it is bizarre how little effort has been made to actually come up with a frame-job that made any sense. I'm sure I could have done better in a couple of days.

The one thing that worries me is that outside of England and Myanmar there seems to be little interest in the case. So how much effect will it really have on Thailand if they are found guilty when only two countries seem to be reporting or care about what a farce it is?

[stephenterry]

The Miller family has been very dignified. I hope the PM has been appraised of their comments. Maybe then, he could order that the trial is seen to be fair whatever the outcome.

[cumgranosalum]

Did the police really think that this would be a cake walk and that nobody would challenge them. At least it looks like the boys will get a fair shake and it will not be a Kangaroo Court. I to believe that they are innocent and the guilty party will never be found. He is long gone sipping tea with the Red Bull heir. It is becoming more and more apparent that the rich can run and the poor go to prison. Its not just in Thailand its world wide. The priviledges of the rich are becoming more apparent/blatant every day. No silver spoon in my mouth. When I was born the doctors stamped "Worker" on my torso.

If they are poor they get a sentence, if they are rich, they go to a monastery.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Family of Briton murdered in Thailand: 'It's been hard, very hard'

Oliver Holmes in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI:-- The family of David Miller, a British tourist who was brutally murdered in Thailand last year, have described for the first time the pain of returning to the site of his killing in Koh Tao and then sitting a few metres from the men accused of his killing during the first days of trial.

Speaking to reporters at the courthouse on Koh Samui, a larger island where the three-month trial began on Wednesday, they said they had visited the beach where David, 24, was killed along with Hannah Witheridge and left a message for their son and brother as well as a copy of David’s funeral program at a small personal shrine.

“Part of the reason for coming out, was to go to Koh Tao. We had one day on Koh Toa, it was really hard,” said Mrs Miller, who asked not to be named. David’s brother said: “I can’t describe how I feel.”

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/10/family-of-briton-murdered-in-thailand-its-been-hard-very-hard