A fine old mess

[jumbo]

So how does the guard distinguish patients from visitors??

[Sheryl]

12000 Bt per year? Is that for people in their twenties? I have just pulled out of my health insurance which I had for the last two years, it costs me 35.000Bt per year, from a local Thai company. I was advised by someone well in the know, not to pay it unless they printed out the policy in English, I asked them and they refused to do that, so I pulled out. Insurance companies cannot be trusted, and if expats are to take out health or accident insurance, they deserve to be treated fairly, and not just used as a cash cow for them. They only want your business if there is little chance you will make a claim. Yes, they are a business, but there is a thing called fairness. Capitalism strikes it's ugly head again.

There are Thai insurers who provide detailed policy focuments and user handbooks in English, as of course do all international insurers. Indeed no one should purchase a policy otherwise.

 

For Thai issued policies with detailed materials in English: BUPA and MSH.

 

Of course, premiums do vary ny age -- as does the likelihood of having a claim.

 

[coppywriter]

7 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I think your pretty inconsiderate.   You were in two accidents where ambulance and/or doctors assisted, you were unconscious both times which is life threatening. You walked out of both hospitals without paying any bill or even discussing a payment plan with them.

You are acting as though the Thais are trying to rip you off ,  which is not true ... they may have saved your life at least once if not both times.

I suggest you wear a note around your neck when riding that says '   if i am in an accident and unconscious please don't revive and don't take me to a hospital '

 

Secondly,  I suggest you give up riding ....  try jogging . 

 

2 minutes ago, jumbo said:

So how does the guard distinguish patients from visitors??

I have no idea except that the guard is near the payment desk so if you don't pay, the staff at the desk tell the guard.  It happened to me but I had paid and showed my receipt. 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:35 AM, mommysboy said:

You should have been taken there. I expect the bill would have been around 20,000 baht.  Perhaps you can make that point.

 

If you are coming on this thread to garner support for a claim that you should pay nothing then be prepared for harsh criticism.

If it was me, I would go to the nearest government hospital, find out how much it would have cost there, and offered Bumungrad that, it they refused it then I would tell them to stuff it.

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Nothing wrong with government hospitals,in fact many doctors working in private hospitals also work in the government hospitals on a shift basis or on call for anything very serious. My neighbour is a surgeon and does this.

My wife had an appointment at a gov hospital to check on something and visit her cousin who is a Doctor there. We walked in thru the emergency room. I have never seen anything like that in the USA. Gurneys all over the room crowded together and even a few outside. If they had taken him to a Gov hospital and some internal bleeding had occured he would have probably died before being seen. 

[NoshowJones]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There are Thai insurers who provide detailed policy focuments and user handbooks in English, as of course do all international insurers. Indeed no one should purchase a policy otherwise.

 

For Thai issued policies with detailed materials in English: BUPA and MSH.

 

Of course, premiums do vary ny age -- as does the likelihood of having a claim.

 

Thanks Sheryl, I went and asked them for an English copy and they just ignored me, although they were not good English speakers, I think just about every Thai adult knows the word English.

[1FinickyOne]

37 minutes ago, Xobtsiwt said:

I have no sympathy for the OP; not only does he make repeatedly bad judgements relating to risk in a country notorious for its poor observance and enforcement of traffic regulations, which results in the second highest road mortality rate in the World, he also has the gall to request no comment or criticism for his blatantly foolish behaviour.

Grow up man, you need to accept the consequences of your actions.

And how many bad decisions went into not having any savings? How many times did he choose to ???? as opposed to putting that money in the bank for his future... it seems this is someone who makes bad decisions for himself and then gets upset with the decisions made for him when he is not conscious... and somebody else has to pay those bills, be it in higher rates at the hospital for the rest of us... which I am sure he does not care about in the least. 

[CGW]

14 hours ago, Deserted said:

It's left me with the feeling that the Bungrumrad is a business and only that. They submit people to get money out of them rather than help them. 

Yes & your point is? The notion that the medical profession is instilled in you from a very young age! get over it! you were lied to, it's a massive business!

[CGW]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:19 AM, Deserted said:

i was not covered at the time of the accident but if they want to help me clear it, can't they post date the accident by two weeks? How much of it would Bupa cover?

BUPA would cover all the cost, then if they found out the truth you would be sharing a cell with the director of the hospital for fraud! not a good idea!

[1FinickyOne]

7 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

If it was me, I would go to the nearest government hospital, find out how much it would have cost there, and offered Bumungrad that, it they refused it then I would tell them to stuff it.

So, you are saying there should be no difference between the cost of 1st class and 3rd class service? 

 

When he tells them to stuff it, this is the type of thing that raises the prices at Bumrungrad for all of their patients... by engaging in at risk behaviour, he becomes liable for the judgment of others... how could anyone else know what hospital he prefers if he is unconscious... people were trying to do the best they could for him... nobody should be stiffed for that. 

[NoshowJones]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:45 AM, eisfeld said:

No insurance, bicycle as main mode of transportation on BKK roads, tailgating a truck, thinking about back dating the accident which is insurance fraud... hm sorry to say but you really should rethink your decision making process all around.

 

If you as a foreigner got a job then surely you are being paid something like 50k THB? Negotiate the total amount down and then do monthly payments of 2-3k for a year or so. That shouldn't hurt too much and at least you get out of that story. And after that year, keep setting that same amount to the side for future unexpected expenses.

Insurance companies are using fraud against us all the time, looking for every excuse not to pay out, so if you can get any retribution, then so be it. Let me make it clear here that apart from what I have said in a previous post, I have never had any involvement with a Thai insurance company, it has always been in the UK.

[NoshowJones]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:20 AM, ajarngreg said:

Op, you walked away from a hospital after your first accident, without paying the bill, just to have another accident where you'd been unconscious.

 

      Would you like to have a lung infection from a crowded ICU at a government hospital?

 

           You are angry that the cops keep your bike, but you do not think about a solution to your problem, as somebody has already mentioned, eventually monthly rates?

 

        You should stop blaming the bad guys who helped you a lot. You could have had inner bleeding, but you do not seem to get it.

 

        If you don't value your own life, it's really time to go to school and develop a common sense what's right and what's wrong.

 

     

 

    

 

         

 

       

"You are angry that the cops keep your bike".   I just wish the police would do the same with the drunken and careless motorbike riders what they did to the OP. Confiscate their bikes until they pay a huge fine. But somehow I don't think that is the case.

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

So, you are saying there should be no difference between the cost of 1st class and 3rd class service? 

 

When he tells them to stuff it, this is the type of thing that raises the prices at Bumrungrad for all of their patients... by engaging in at risk behaviour, he becomes liable for the judgment of others... how could anyone else know what hospital he prefers if he is unconscious... people were trying to do the best they could for him... nobody should be stiffed for that. 

No, they were doing the best for themselves financially, that is why the OP was taken to Bumrungrad, a very expensive private hospital, and not to the first government hospital, passing several government hospitals on the way.

[colinneil]

18 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

My wife had an appointment at a gov hospital to check on something and visit her cousin who is a Doctor there. We walked in thru the emergency room. I have never seen anything like that in the USA. Gurneys all over the room crowded together and even a few outside. If they had taken him to a Gov hospital and some internal bleeding had occured he would have probably died before being seen. 

 

I can only speak highly of Thai government hospitals.

Yes i was rushed into the emergency room, full of gurneys.

Yes i had internal bleeding, in fact the list was, 4th5th vertabrae shattered, 4 broken ribs, punctured lung, broken pelvis, broken hip, broken femur, several cuts both on my body and legs, and yes i survived it.

So please do not condemn government hospitals, the staff work very hard in very difficult conditions.

I can only praise the staff in the emergergency room at Khonkaen hospital.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Excellent post Gmac, I agree with every word. But please, always keep a safe distance between yourself and the vehicle in front.

I was actually referring to the OP here, sorry about that.

[NoshowJones]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:35 AM, teddog said:

Id say so too.  Had a couple of run-ins with these damned private hospitals years ago...pneumonia,ICU  nobody came all night,doctor in morning,told them this is insane Im checking out, half full oxygen bottles changed mad rush for more medications,even more of whatever to bump that bill up,yes was a bill,about70,000,   Demanded to see director of hospital,told him Im not paying for this crap and call the police.  He asked how much would I like to pay,a third I replied  OK he said

    Pharmacy ,with guy in charge would have been more than sufficient

  Another time,skin cancer, now I knew the doctor was lying  told him so   ,behind the ear stuff, on further test  no cancer

  Hope all you filled up to the brim medical insurance types,paying for "peace of mind"  hefty sum types never get to use it,you can look back at a waste of money,but then maybe not,..do govt. hospitals do insurance?

If they don't, then maybe they should, maybe even the government could work out some sort of agreement with hospitals and local expats, especially the ones who are too old, or have existing health problems, and just cannot get any sort of health insurance.

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

What's with the helmet nonsense? Did not wearing one cause the accident?

Why do people always criticize the victim?

Is a helmet the law?  

Why not at least argue the case for the person who caused the accident to pay?

People are criticizing the  "victim" for his poor choices. Thailand is the number 1 or 2 in motorcycle accidents in the world so even if you have been driving a bike for 30 years you need to be protected. If cannot afford health or life insurance you at least take out accident insurance which is cheap.Who says the garbage truck was at fault? Maybe he was tailgating or driving to fast. In the 1st accident he doesn't blame anyone just said he crashed and was knocked unconsious. He needs to negotiate the price down and pay what he can monthly to get his bike back.

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, Deserted said:

You have a point here but sadly I work part time and had to pay everything to cover my daughter's school fees. I cycle everywhere to save money. I cannot afford taxis. I work part time only but that will change next month. Some of us have hard times.

OP. I think you deserve credit for answering everybody, sometimes you have been right and sometimes not, but I think you should do what a previous poster said and try and pay so much a month, but I would not pay the full whack that Bumrungrad want as you should not have been taken there in the fist place, try to come to some agreement with them. Also, do not start paying anything until you get your motorbike back, and riding around Bangkok all the time, get yourself accident insurance.

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, rott said:

All the major banks offer accident insurance costing between 2000 / 5000 a year, probably would not cover the full costs in your case but if they had seen a limit they would very likely not have done all the scans. If you are spending a lot of time on a bike how much more proof do you need that insurance is an essential not an option.

 

Why would you expect to be taken to a Government hospital? They are basically for Thais who cannot afford private treatment.

 

You rolled the dice by not insuring and lost out big time. Your fault not theirs. As has been said you will be a statistic if health insurance is one day made compulsory.

As far as I'm aware, banks will not insure you over a certain age just like insurance companies. So older people have no chance.

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

They took you to the one of the most expensive hospitals in Thailand.  I advise paying in instalments.  And if they still maintain you pay all then perhaps speak to a lawyer.

How is the OP going to afford a lawyer? Haven't you read his posts?

[Tony125]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

As far as I'm aware, banks will not insure you over a certain age just like insurance companies. So older people have no chance.

It was asumed the OP was in his 50's and can easily get accident insurance , its cheap because it only covers you in accidents such as motor bike, car , bus, train or air crashes. Seen thai polices for 5 ---12 thousand baht a year. banks sometime give when opening an account and the age I have seen was up to 70. Remember this is not life insurance or health but accident.

[NoshowJones]

14 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

Why are the police holding your bicycle? God Blessed You. OO.

Like I said to the OP, he should not start paying anything until his bike is returned, I believe drunk drivers and riders get their vehicles returned, and they are much, much worse than the OP, like AgarnGreg said, the OP seems to be a good family man, drunken riders are not.

[little mary sunshine]

55 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

So, you are saying there should be no difference between the cost of 1st class and 3rd class service? 

 

When he tells them to stuff it, this is the type of thing that raises the prices at Bumrungrad for all of their patients... by engaging in at risk behaviour, he becomes liable for the judgment of others... how could anyone else know what hospital he prefers if he is unconscious... people were trying to do the best they could for him... nobody should be stiffed for that. 

So when you tell them "to stuff it". I hope the police

are called and,your sent to jail for nonpayment!!

(cheap smart a** ).

Edited April 21, 2017 by little mary sunshine

[little mary sunshine]

13 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

How is the OP going to afford a lawyer? Haven't you read his posts?

If the OP is that poor he should go to his home

country and work and return to Thailand when

he has enough money to pay his way.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, Minnie the Minx said:

On another note, in Canton a similar story. Before bikes were banned.

 

Guy rode around, no helmet, knocked out by a car and they got him to hospital. Only a broken wrist and ego as he thought he was so much better than the locals.

 

20k bill he refused to pay, that no idea in Thai baht, they took his passport until he could cough up the money, was all over the channels. He also tried to do a runner and was arrested.

 

Op lucky. See my second last post.

 

You have no medical insurance you have no business being in a foreign country.

So all the foreign people living in the UK including many Thais shouldn't be there? They all get there medical treatment free, and most of the very few, if not all who are not entitled to it just use a middle finger and walk away. It sure is an unfair world.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes because every hospital is dying to treat farang who pedal about on a bike and stand a high chance of causing the hospital a loss. 

 

Why would any hospital pay someone to bring indigent farang to them given the high probability they would skip out without paying? If anything I would think they'd pay the ambulance drivers to give them a pass since, in too many cases, they waste time, equipment and supplies on a deadbeat.

"who pedal about on a bike". I thought it was a motorbike the OP was riding. Hmmm, maybe I got it wrong there.

[ddavidovsky]

You've been scammed. These hospitals always try to bounce people into expensive unnecessary tests and scans. It's their business modus operandi. Technology has provided them with all sorts of opportunities for non-essential 'just-in-case' procedures that they managed well enough without in the past. They probably assumed you would be able to afford it or would have medical insurance.

 

If someone is unconscious, they shouldn't be performing expensive non-essential 'just-in-case' scans - only necessary life-saving procedures. Of course they are always able to say it 'might' have been life-saving, so they can get away with it.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

My question is this.

Are the police allowed to remove and withhold his passport? Is there not some international law against them holding his passport, when,officially, at present, he has committed no crime.I dont know his status, but what if he is on a report basis, would the police release the PP in order for him to report.If not then he would be failing to report for no fault of his own.This could get worse. If the hospital lawyer decides there is a case against him for non payment(therefore creating a judgement for debt)  would he end up in prison for refusing to pay moneys owed? By holding the PP they are preventing him from leaving the country. If , as another op said, complications should arise from the accidents, and he needed medical treatment, would the hospital refuse to attend him?

Its complicated.

[mogandave]

I think you should wear a necklace and carry a card in your wallet stating clearly in both English and Thai, that in the event you are found unconscious, you are not to be taken to any non-government hospital, and that you will not pay for any treatment you think is too expensive, or for which you have not approved IN WRITING prior to treatment.

Or just buy insurance.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Sheryl]

It was a bicycle.

 

And leaving aside for a moment the issue of whether there were other nearby hospitals that he "should" have been brought to, not Bumrungrad's fault that he was brought to them. They received an unconscious, seizing man with a head injury.  As far as I can tell, they delivered appropriate medical care, including one (not multiple as originally stated ) CT of the head to rule out an intracranial bleed (very possible and would have required immediate surgery to prevent death or brain injury) and simple Xrays of the cervical and thoracic spine (likely what the "neck" and "chest" films were actually about) -- proper medical practice is that after a traumatic injury the neck and upper body  be immobilized until spinal injury has been ruled out; failure to do this can result in spinal cord damage if there was any fracture to the vertebra, which they cannot know without an Xray.

 

They likely also administered drugs by IV to help reduce brain swelling, and when he came around and insisted on leaving they counselled him about danger signs and risk of a late bleed.  Frankly, I cannot find a single thing to fault with the treatment he was given, and nothing mentioned falls outside of the necessary and urgent. Those who believe otherwise need to read up on care of unconscious patients with head injuries.

 

The total cost of 50,000 baht -- half of this being for a head CT with contrast - is hardly excessive for the care given. Certainly it would have been less in a government hospital, but not by as much as one might think given the necessity of a head CT with contrast (even in a government hospital that will be at least 10,000 baht).

 

The government has been cracking down on private hospitals for failing to promptly provide emergency care to one and all who arrive in need of it and it appears that Bumrungrad has issued policies in support of this to their A&E  personnel.

 

This case is an unfortunate example of why, in the past (and in some places even today) private hospitals often fail to provide appropriate emergency care until/unless they are assurred first of payment.

 

There has been no suggestion that his passport has been taken by anyone. the police have the bicycle - what were they supposed to do, leave it lying in the street to be stolen?  They may indeed refuse to return it if the hospital has filed a complaint for non-payment as they are well within their rights to have done.

 

Let us hope the OP does the right thing and contacts the hospital and arranges a payment plan.