What is considered work?

[owl sees all]

The recent Thai clampdown on illegal workers, and those working outside their work permit constraints, has been very well discussed on TvisaF.

 

Personally what I'm concerned about - as must be thousands of other expats - what constitutes work?

 

Driving a tractor or Kabota on the farm! Work?

My friend's Thai wife has a business selling fish around the villages. He does the driving! Work?

Collecting rubbish and burning it on the farm! Work?

Helping at a temple! Work?

 

How concerned should we expats in Isaan (all over Thailand in fact) be?

 

Just where do we stand on all this and what could be our defence (if any) if we were to get nobbled?

Edited July 1, 2017 by owl sees all

[robblok]

The things your mentioned are all work.. farangs can never work on a farm as its a Thai only job. All these jobs are out in the open, far more unsafe then the average Digital nomad who works at home out of sight. 

 

I think you would be ok in general unless you have powerful enemies. 

[Lamkyong]

Just where do we stand on all this ??you do not stand a chance  (legally)

[maewang99]

sorry, I only stay in the rural area.

you don't need a work permit for anything here unless you work in a big factory.... sorry.

Edited July 1, 2017 by maewang99

[owl sees all]

Thank you Robblok.

 

Nine years ago I built a road around my (wife's) farm. 320 metres long and well maintained. It is the best road around and is well used. About a month ago a police car drove down whilst myself and the wife's brother were fixing a couple of holes. We had dropped the rocks off and were in the process of smashing them up. The police car had to stop while I moved a couple of football sized stones out of his car's way. As he drove past he wound down the window and both smiled and gave me the thumbs up.

 

Just where do I stand? Mixed messages! He could have nicked me?

Edited July 1, 2017 by owl sees all

[robblok]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

Thank you Robblok.

 

Nine years ago I built a road around my farm. 320 metres long and well maintained. It is the best road around and is well used. About a month ago a police car drove down whilst myself and the wife's brother were fixing a couple of holes. We had dropped the rocks off and were in the process of smashing them up. The police car had to stop while I moved a couple of football sized stones out of his car's way. As he drove past he wound down the window and both smiled and gave me the thumbs up.

 

Just where do I stand? He could have nicked me? Mixed messages!

Depends, they say that working on your own house (not farm work) but painting it and so on is ok. This might be considered the same.. or they see it as farm work. Where do you stand.. that depends on the power of the one that want you nicked.  Police in general are not going after work permits.. that would be the labor department. However if you have a police officer that is smart and out to make a few bucks you could be in trouble. 

 

[ezzra]

Ridiculous right? living in a country where one has to be on a look out like

a criminal if he's doing something against the law like tending to his

place of living home and farm,

the best way to sums it all up is you can do almost anything around your

home, until someone who doesn't like you drop the dime on you that is and

call the immigration on you and this is when the fun begins...

Edited July 1, 2017 by ezzra

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Ridiculous right? living in a country where one has to be on a look out like

a criminal if he's doing something against the law like tending to his

place of living home and farm,

the best way to sums it all up is you can do almost anything around your

home, until someone who doesn't like you drop the dime on you and

call the immigration...

That is a real correct statement.. but doing things on the farm is more dangerous because there is almost no leeway there as farm-work is something foreigners can't do. But as long as nobody drops the dime on you your safe. 

[jeab1980]

Worried! Concerned! NOT in the slightist i do all those things the OP mentioned. Will carry on doing said things with no concerns whatsoever.

Edited July 1, 2017 by jeab1980

[owl sees all]

On another topic recently I read that a guy was nicked for carrying a box of spuds. Can't find the post but I think this is just plain petty.

 

If you was the chap carrying the potatoes please go through what happened.

[owl sees all]

8 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Worried! Concerned! NOT in the slightist i do all those things the OP mentioned. Eill carry on doing said things with no concerns whatsoever.

Well I too have done all the things in the OP but this move on (illegal) workers by the Thai authorities has got me concerned. Is there a big picture emerging here? Or as your post says "Worried! Concerned! NOT in the slightest" to be taken sincerely. I hope you are right on this.

 

I don't fancy 5 years in the cage for trying to help Thais and build Thailand.

Edited July 1, 2017 by owl sees all

[LannaGuy]

Basically you cannot do ANYTHING that is deemed potentially taking work away from a Thai. It only takes one vindictive Thai to report you and you're toast - just don't do it.

[jeab1980]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Well I too have done all the things in the OP but this move on (illegal) workers by the Thai authorities has got me concerned. Is there a big picture emerging here? Or as your post says "Worried! Concerned! NOT in the slightest" to be taken sincerely. I hope you are right on this.

 

I don't fancy 5 years in the cage for trying to help Thais and build Thailand.

Lol 5 years ok. Not going into why i have no concerns but I can assure you i have no concerns whatsoever.

[BritTim]

The answer is that "work" is anything an official says is "work". There is a consensus by the powers that be that certain groups should be left alone (e.g. digital nomads). That aside, mostly, common sense is applied (yes, really) on whether to go after someone for what could be defined as "work". In rural Thailand, if you are on good terms with everyone, and have no enemies, you can get away with almost anything. Avoid being in competition with someone in a way that they could perceive as hurting their business. That is what generally leads to trouble.

[Sexbomb]

Does renting out property that you own, such as one/several condos, constitute as work if I am living in Thailand?

 

Is there are a difference between having a legit broker renting them out for you or you rent them out yourself by putting them on AirBnB or other rental websites?

 

I know, rentals less than 30 days requires a hotel license but if that law is also followed.

[Swiss1960]

Does renting out property that you own, such as one/several condos, constitute as work if I am living in Thailand?
 
Is there are a difference between having a legit broker renting them out for you or you rent them out yourself by putting them on AirBnB or other rental websites?
 
I know, rentals less than 30 days requires a hotel license but if that law is also followed.

Of course this is work, BUT it is work for which you CAN get a work permit under the right circumstances, I.e. company with enough Thai employees per foreigner work permit etc.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sexbomb]

13 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

 

Of course this is work, BUT it is work for which you CAN get a work permit under the right circumstances, I.e. company with enough Thai employees per foreigner work permit etc.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

I know that I can get a work permit and I know the rules for such BUT should it be necessary to register a company, hire a bunch of Thais, etc just to rent out your condo that you have invested in and brought money into the country to pay for if it is in fact considered work and a work permit is required as you claim it is.

[sinbin]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Just where do I stand? Mixed messages! He could have nicked me?

No he couldn't. Not his job, Work permits are not a police matter unless his boss tells him different. . Thai police don't think on their feet. They turn up for their shift and get told what to do for that day. They don't deviate. 

I sat drinking with a policeman in the village one day. He was still in uniform. A motor accident happened right in front of us. I asked 'aren't you going to call that in?' He replied 'no, nothing to do with me'.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

The answer is that "work" is anything an official says is "work". There is a consensus by the powers that be that certain groups should be left alone (e.g. digital nomads). That aside, mostly, common sense is applied (yes, really) on whether to go after someone for what could be defined as "work". In rural Thailand, if you are on good terms with everyone, and have no enemies, you can get away with almost anything. Avoid being in competition with someone in a way that they could perceive as hurting their business. That is what generally leads to trouble.

Getting away with something and being not guilty are different things altogether.

It's not you who will make the decision when someone reports you.

[Rhys]

.... writing a blog about Thailand's nightlife and associated adventures in .......   WORK or Pleasure

[Swiss1960]

I know that I can get a work permit and I know the rules for such BUT should it be necessary to register a company, hire a bunch of Thais, etc just to rent out your condo that you have invested in and brought money into the country to pay for if it is in fact considered work and a work permit is required as you claim it is.

According to the current Thai laws, the answer is yes, it is necessary.

Would I like to see it changed? Yes, as I would like many other changes to be changed, i.e. in immigration law.

But accepting that I as a foreigner have no whatsoever handle for such changes helps me in accepting current laws and keeping my blood pressure at bay.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[LannaGuy]

35 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

And your point is?

The obvious one which many of us have made it's ILLEGAL to do any of these things. Get it now?

[gleeglee]

3 hours ago, maewang99 said:

sorry, I only stay in the rural area.

you don't need a work permit for anything here unless you work in a big factory.... sorry.

you 100% need a work permit

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

The answer is that "work" is anything an official says is "work". There is a consensus by the powers that be that certain groups should be left alone (e.g. digital nomads). That aside, mostly, common sense is applied (yes, really) on whether to go after someone for what could be defined as "work". In rural Thailand, if you are on good terms with everyone, and have no enemies, you can get away with almost anything. Avoid being in competition with someone in a way that they could perceive as hurting their business. That is what generally leads to trouble.

they determine work as anything they think they can levy an on the spot fine fine for. as long as you have some cash to pay the fine you should be ok. 

[gamini]

If you have a proper work permit then you got nothing to worry about. So why all the fuss. It's the same in many other countries like Singapore or  Malaysia.

[gleeglee]

1 hour ago, Sexbomb said:

I know that I can get a work permit and I know the rules for such BUT should it be necessary to register a company, hire a bunch of Thais, etc just to rent out your condo that you have invested in and brought money into the country to pay for if it is in fact considered work and a work permit is required as you claim it is.

you are not paying tax on your income 

[Sexbomb]

2 minutes ago, gleeglee said:

you are not paying tax on your income 

And if I say that I do pay tax on that income as I am legally a tax resident of Thailand as I stay there more than 6 months?

[gleeglee]

Just now, Sexbomb said:

And if I say that I do pay tax on that income as I am legally a tax resident of Thailand as I stay there more than 6 months?

you are not a tax payer if you have no work permit

[paul18620]

But this is Thailand and the old guys and some younger guys who have been married a long time and have a farm with their wife and work of these farms in Issan think they are safe ,but they are not really 

If they upset a local and he goes to the local immigration office and reports them working they could get a big fine , I know a guy who got fined for opening the shutters on his wifes coffee shop as he upset 1 local.

Can happen anywhere and the people who think they are untouchable when they don't have the correct paperwork when "working " are so wrong and maybe in for  shock 1 day if they ever get caught out .

Maybe it will happen ,maybe it won't you just never know ,its a risk you have to be willing to take as if you get caught there will be a fine ,maybe a big one ,you just never know in Thailand.

[owl sees all]

4 minutes ago, gamini said:

If you have a proper work permit then you got nothing to worry about. So why all the fuss. It's the same in many other countries like Singapore or  Malaysia.

The point here Gamini is that you cannot get a work permit to do many things here (as has been well pointed out). The OP is not about what you can get a work permit for but rather the work that hundreds, if not thousands of ex-pats, are doing every day quite innocently.

 

And the irony is that this work greatly helps the less well off Thais and helps develop the country.