Bangkok Air Pollution

[Pib]

There is also a moobaan across the canal from my moobaan.  This other moobaan on the other side of the tracks so to speak is more of a slum of low income residents living in shacks....and some of the residents sneak and burn their trash rather than dispose of it in garbage cans the district office provides them.  Let's just say some of the residents are not very "clean air" concerned....more concerned in getting rid of their trash....you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink.  Our moobaan management has called the police several times regarding this burning in the neighboring moobaan.    

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

There is also a moobaan across the canal from my moobaan.  This other moobaan on the other side of the tracks so to speak is more of a slum of low income residents living in shacks....and some of the residents sneak and burn their trash rather than dispose of it in garbage cans the district office provides them.  Let's just say some of the residents are not very "clean air" concerned....more concerned in getting rid of their trash....you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink.  Our moobaan management has called the police several times regarding this burning in the neighboring moobaan.    

 

We're all choking in smog, they've got govt provided trash collection and bins, and yet they're still burning trash. Utterly and completely crazy!!!

 

[Pib]

My outside PM 2.5 reading at 4:55pm is 66 ug.  Down from 100 at 1pm midday.  And further down from 183 at 7:30am this morning. 

 

Big improvement thru the daylight hours.  But as night falls it probably start climbing again like previous nights....hopefully tomorrow morning will be better than this morning since it does look like the air cleared somewhat today when looking at objects kilometers away. 

 

I'm sure shooting water cannons into the air and using 50 drones to spray a couple hundred liters of water mixed with a little molasses made this improvement--NOT!!  But expect fewer vehicles on the road due to schools being closed helped today...and should help tomorrow.  And maybe some folks in the moobaan next door will not burn an trash.

[keemapoot]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

My outside PM 2.5 reading at 4:55pm is 66 ug.  Down from 100 at 1pm midday.  And further down from 183 at 7:30am this morning. 

 

Big improvement thru the daylight hours.  But as night falls it probably start climbing again like previous nights....hopefully tomorrow morning will be better than this morning since it does look like the air cleared somewhat today when looking at objects kilometers away. 

 

I'm sure shooting water cannons into the air and using 50 drones to spray a couple hundred liters of water mixed with a little molasses made this improvement--NOT!!  But expect fewer vehicles on the road due to schools being closed helped today...and should help tomorrow.  And maybe some folks in the moobaan next door will not burn an trash.

For what it's worth, we closed up our condo and beat it to our high country home this morning to escape this danger, and the roads were pretty full of Bangkok license plates leaving with us. I expect that because all the schools are out, and a lot of government offices closed or reduced staff that many people have left town or are leaving town for a long weekend. That is probably contributing to the lower readings now?

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

12 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Does anyone know where I can buy a cheap CO₂ scrubber and an O₂ generator so I can seal my abode up like the nuclear submarines of my distant past?

 

I already have the air purifier (such as it is) and know where to buy the door seal tape thanks to this thread????.

You are probably kidding, but your idea is actually easily doable. You could get a Nitrogen generator and just discharge the nitrogen and use the Oxygen richer air from the N2 generator.

You would also probably need some kind of C02 scrubber to stay alive.

 

http://www.cethailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=539856673&Ntype=91

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

My outside PM 2.5 reading at 4:55pm is 66 ug.  Down from 100 at 1pm midday.  And further down from 183 at 7:30am this morning. 

 

Big improvement thru the daylight hours.  But as night falls it probably start climbing again like previous nights....hopefully tomorrow morning will be better than this morning since it does look like the air cleared somewhat today when looking at objects kilometers away. 

 

I'm sure shooting water cannons into the air and using 50 drones to spray a couple hundred liters of water mixed with a little molasses made this improvement--NOT!!  But expect fewer vehicles on the road due to schools being closed helped today...and should help tomorrow.  And maybe some folks in the moobaan next door will not burn an trash.

And now at 7pm with night time/darkness the PM2.5 reading is up to 116.  Just something about my moobaan that turns it into a pollution magnet come night.

[wood]

Going the whole nine yards here....

 

More info on keeping it out of the home

 

We have 3 aircon units mounted in the false ceiling that are fed their coolant from external evaporator fan units, pretty standard set up..

Upon viewing today into the void space which is approximately 60cm deep i noticed in addition to the coolant feed and return pipes a good number of other "utility" pipes that run hidden up in the ceiling void.

These pipes all had a clear hole around them as they access our property from the outside and beyond, clearly a source for outside (polluted) air to enter our property, bedrooms and living areas.

Now then, I have previously stated that our Xiaomi 2S purifier was adequately managing the inside home Pm2.5 levels, but, this recent pollution increase has had it on full wack to keep the pm2.5 levels below 5mcg.

Off to Hompro again..... bought an aerosol can of cavity expanding foam and spent a couple of hours sealing all those hidden entry points up in the roof void, pretty easy to reach fortunately.

So here at 10.30pm is a shot of the Xiaomi pm2.5 running  at a register of 1 mcg and it is now maintaining this at the lowest nightime fan speed.

 

When will it ever end....

[MaxYakov]

44 minutes ago, wood said:

Going the whole nine yards here....

 

More info on keeping it out of the home

 

We have 3 aircon units mounted in the false ceiling that are fed their coolant from external evaporator fan units, pretty standard set up..

Upon viewing today into the void space which is approximately 60cm deep i noticed in addition to the coolant feed and return pipes a good number of other "utility" pipes that run hidden up in the ceiling void.

These pipes all had a clear hole around them as they access our property from the outside and beyond, clearly a source for outside (polluted) air to enter our property, bedrooms and living areas.

Now then, I have previously stated that our Xiaomi 2S purifier was adequately managing the inside home Pm2.5 levels, but, this recent pollution increase has had it on full wack to keep the pm2.5 levels below 5mcg.

Off to Hompro again..... bought an aerosol can of cavity expanding foam and spent a couple of hours sealing all those hidden entry points up in the roof void, pretty easy to reach fortunately.

So here at 10.30pm is a shot of the Xiaomi pm2.5 running  at a register of 1 mcg and it is now maintaining this at the lowest nightime fan speed.

 

When will it ever end....

Thanks for the update If you're going to run a sealed room, don't forget the CO₂ scrubber and O₂ generator (or tanks).

 

I've read (and it makes sense to me) that it is not recommended (unhealthy) to occupy a sealed room for long periods (such as in the wintertime). I was a nuclear submarine crew member sealed up for 60+ days at a time on patrol and we were told by the Atmosphere Control Officer that the air pollution in the sub was actually worse the the LA smog at it's worst (there was cooking and smoking by the crew was allowed). The O₂ level would drop to the point where cigarettes would self-extinguish if they were placed into an ash tray. Believe it or not, the O₂ bleed into the interior was done manually.

 

I seemed to have survived the experience without wearing a PM2.5 mask, but these days I'm not as young so I'm not taking any chances.

 

PS: I believe the A/C compressor (of the refrigerant) is external (outside) and the evaporator (cooling unit) is inside. Also, it ends when the fat lady sings.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by MaxYakov

[fishism]

I was going to ask "What air purifier would you recommend purchasing while I wait for the Xiaomi 2s to become back in stock?"

 

But I went to Tesco and 2 HomePro stores today and they are all out of Air Purifiers of all kind including the display models. They had no Filtrete filters but one HomePro had a display with Hatari filters for something which they wasn't too sure what but they were suggesting attaching it to the front of an extractor fan. I had just purchased a new fan so I told her I would use that, she then got her phone out and showed me a social media feed, probably line, with all photos of ideas to make diy air purifiers, I then showed her another filter I had just purchased and she rushed off to get me the "correct" fan to use with it, I was thinking of making something using a computer fan and an adjustable power supply but was finding it difficult to find the parts.

 

I'm thinking I should have bought more but I don't have anyway to test if my efforts are working.

 

Does anyone know where I can get a 2.5pm meter or module so I can make my own. I can only find in china with a 3-4 week delivery estimate.

 

 

[MaxYakov]

29 minutes ago, fishism said:

I was going to ask "What air purifier would you recommend purchasing while I wait for the Xiaomi 2s to become back in stock?"

 

But I went to Tesco and 2 HomePro stores today and they are all out of Air Purifiers of all kind including the display models. They had no Filtrete filters but one HomePro had a display with Hatari filters for something which they wasn't too sure what but they were suggesting attaching it to the front of an extractor fan. I had just purchased a new fan so I told her I would use that, she then got her phone out and showed me a social media feed, probably line, with all photos of ideas to make diy air purifiers, I then showed her another filter I had just purchased and she rushed off to get me the "correct" fan to use with it, I was thinking of making something using a computer fan and an adjustable power supply but was finding it difficult to find the parts.

 

I'm thinking I should have bought more but I don't have anyway to test if my efforts are working.

 

Does anyone know where I can get a 2.5pm meter or module so I can make my own. I can only find in china with a 3-4 week delivery estimate.

 

 

A long time ago I converted a PerfectBrandz PBC-333 evaporative cooler to be an air purifier/fan. While experimenting with various filter material for it, I bought an HEPA filter that was intended for an Hatari air purifier - Model HA 9218. I did a test installation, but didn't use the Hatari filter because I knew it would get dirty rapidly and they cost 600 baht each. In those days I was actually trying to filter outside air and bring it into the room for cooling. I don't do that anymore (haven't for years) because of the extreme pollution. I now run a relatively closed room and pay the electric for room cooling with my A/C unit. I also use 3M Filtrete filter material in both my A/C evaporator and in my converted evaporative cooler air purifier/cooling fan.

 

The PerfectBrandz PBC-333 is no long available. Its replacement is the PBC-555 which seems to be available in Bangkok. The PBC-555 might lend itself well to conversion to be an air purifier/cooling fan. Converting the PBC-333 was relatively easy and was less half the price of a single-purpose air purifier. I'm wondering if the air purifiers can generate the high-volume air flow that is needed to provide enough cooling as can my PBC-333 using one layer of 3M Filtrete filter material.

Edited January 31, 2019 by MaxYakov

[wood]

40 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Thanks for the update If you're going to run a sealed room, don't forget the CO₂ scrubber and O₂ generator (or tanks).

 

I've read (and it makes sense to me) that it is not recommended (unhealthy) to occupy a sealed room for long periods (such as in the wintertime). I was a nuclear submarine crew member sealed up for 60+ days at a time on patrol and we were told by the Atmosphere Control Officer that the air pollution in the sub was actually worse the the LA smog at it's worst (there was cooking and smoking by the crew was allowed). The O₂ level would drop to the point where cigarettes would self-extinguish if they were placed into an ash tray. Believe it or not, the O₂ bleed into the interior was done manually.

 

I seemed to have survived the experience without wearing a PM2.5 mask, but these days I'm not as young so I'm not taking any chances.

 

PS: I believe the A/C compressor (of the refrigerant) is external (outside) and the evaporator (cooling unit) is inside. Also, it ends when the fat lady sings.

 

 

 

Cheers Max....

All sound advice and correction on the aircon appreciated....

No more to add, as its late, but you do know us Brits still use canaries as O2 sensors ???? ????

Edited January 31, 2019 by wood
.

[fishism]

So this is what I went with today, the extractor fan is very noisy and not sure if i can change the speed. The Hatari fan doesn't have much air flow with the filter just sat on the top, i'll probably change it to the back.

 

Anyone know if the motor will burn out or catch fire if it cannot turn at the speed it wants to?

[fishism]

34 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

A long time ago I converted a PerfectBrandz PBC-333 evaporative cooler to be an air purifier/fan. While experimenting with various filter material for it, I bought an HEPA filter that was intended for an Hatari air purifier - Model HA 9218. I did a test installation, but didn't use the Hatari filter because I knew it would get dirty rapidly and they cost 600 baht each. In those days I was actually trying to filter outside air and bring it into the room for cooling. I don't do that anymore (haven't for years) because of the extreme pollution. I now run a relatively closed room and pay the electric for room cooling with my A/C unit. I also use 3M Filtrete filter material in both my A/C evaporator and in my converted evaporative cooler air purifier/cooling fan.

 

The PerfectBrandz PBC-333 is no long available. Its replacement is the PBC-555 which seems to be available in Bangkok. The PBC-555 might lend itself well to conversion to be an air purifier/cooling fan. Converting the PBC-333 was relatively easy and was less half the price of a single-purpose air purifier. I'm wondering if the air purifiers can generate the high-volume air flow that is needed to provide enough cooling as can my PBC-333 using one layer of 3M Filtrete filter material.

I think the one I bought could be for the HA9218 looking at the size.

 

The PBC-555 looks too big for me, I have zero spare space. They had something like that, or that, on the display but I didn't see a price. In tesco similar machines or the same started at about 2000 baht so significantly cheaper than the purifiers but had no bells or whistles.

[MaxYakov]

14 minutes ago, fishism said:

So this is what I went with today, the extractor fan is very noisy and not sure if i can change the speed. The Hatari fan doesn't have much air flow with the filter just sat on the top, i'll probably change it to the back.

 

Anyone know if the motor will burn out or catch fire if it cannot turn at the speed it wants to?

I experimented trying to filter the air through a 3-bladed fan but it did not like the flow restriction on it's intake side. I don't know if that's what's going on with yours. My evaporative cooler conversion to be an air purifier/cooling fan was a lot more successful and I still use it today. Description Ref: HERE

 

As far as the temperature/fire issue I can't help you other than to monitor the motor temperature. A box fan may have been a better choice. My PBC-333 evaporative cooler uses a very powerful squirrel-cage fan (rather than the conventional 3-bladed fan) and functions very well (on low) with the intake restriction of a single layer of 3M Filtrete filter material.

 

I ran across this DiY conversion using a box fan and an HEPA filter with the filter installed on the output side of the rather than on the intake. The downside of this probably be that the high-velocity/high-volume output would be attenuated so much by the filter that it would not be useful for body cooling. Installing the filter on the intake side of the fan could interfere also with air flow velocity/volume. Here's the video (there are several DiY air purifiers videos on YouTube):

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

29 minutes ago, fishism said:

So this is what I went with today, the extractor fan is very noisy and not sure if i can change the speed. The Hatari fan doesn't have much air flow with the filter just sat on the top, i'll probably change it to the back.

 

Anyone know if the motor will burn out or catch fire if it cannot turn at the speed it wants to?

Why is the Hatari fan still in the box?

 

Strapping the HEPA filter to the front is what you need to do. I've done that for years and have never had a problem. Check out the Smart Air website for instructions on DIY air purifiers.

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, fishism said:

I think the one I bought could be for the HA9218 looking at the size.

 

The PBC-555 looks too big for me, I have zero spare space. They had something like that, or that, on the display but I didn't see a price. In tesco similar machines or the same started at about 2000 baht so significantly cheaper than the purifiers but had no bells or whistles.

The evaporative coolers will be larger by necessary design (water reservoir, cooling insert, etc). But they are coolers so the fan is very powerful - enough so that installing a moderate filter is not a show-stopper in terms of air velocity/volume. My PBC-333 has an ionizer output vane oscillator and an infra-red remote control (I bought it on CraigsList, second hand so I didn't even pay full price). Probably, the PBC-555 has the same PBC-333 features and is about the same size.

 

I chose the HA 9218 HEPA filter because it was a good fit for the PBC-333 air intake. I'm going to attempt to use it rather than having it sit around gathering dust. I plan on pre-filtering it with a single layer of 3M Filtrete filter material so that it catches what the Filtrete layer misses and, hopefully, will extend its useful life. I don't know what to do with the restriction of its carbon layer if that layer is there only there for odors. I may attempt to remove it. the main filter is folded so it's air flow restriction should be relatively small.

 

Hey, if space is too tight for a PBC-xxx cooler, then maybe you should consider wearing a dust/fume mask while in your abode and same a lot on electricity and air purifier expense (i.e. turn your body into an air purifier as when you're outside????). I do that partially these days when on the balcony or in the bathroom (which is separated from Bangkok air by only an single layer of 3M Filtrete filter material). 

Edited January 31, 2019 by MaxYakov

[JAS21]

OK I live just outside BK ... 400M from Klong Prapa which is the boarder. This morning the AQI is low ... took reading about 5:45am and it felt really humid outside which my meter showed that it was..

 

Air purifier and Air Con running all night in the bedroom

 

In the house down stairs

 

Outside

 

Just wondered what reading people are getting 'in the smoke'  ....

Edited February 1, 2019 by JAS21

[DaveInSukhumvit]

Has anyone seen where you can buy filters like this in Bangkok?  They are common in US at 1" thick.
 

[MaxYakov]

38 minutes ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Has anyone seen where you can buy filters like this in Bangkok?  They are common in US at 1" thick.
 

Probably HomePro, if they're not sold out and if they even stock it. HomePro may not stock it because looks like (from the size of it) a main HVAC system filter rather than one of a smaller electronic air purifier such as the Hatari HA 9218 HEPA filter (a filter for which I have in the past purchased from HomePro at Chitlom, Bankok). the HA 9218 filter is about 1 inch thick because it combines the HEPA particle filter material component with a charcoal odor-reducing component. Air should always be directed to go through the HEPA particle filter first. The HA 9218 HEPA filter is marked with an air-flow direction arrow and a clean-to-dirty color gray scale on the outside of the filter.

 

You could, I suppose, put two HA 9218 HEPA filters (or any smaller air purifier HEPA filter side by side to make one as wide or even wider than the one shown. But it gets a little expensive to buy the dedicated HEPA filters for air purifiers (> 600 baht), depending upon how quickly they get dirty - in my experience (depending on whether I'm filtering outside air or only room air) very quickly.

 

If you're thinking of using such a filter with a box fan and the filter has a charcoal odor filter, you might dump the carbon layer to get better air flow. You might also with placing just the HEPA, folded filter material component in the fan's intake rather than in it fan's output. This may require that the filter be spaced further away from the fan so as to not interfere with the fan's aerodynamic characteristics. Such a spacing would require building a simple plenum out of corrugated plastic construction material or even cardboard. At least with such a plenum you could get away with having only one smaller air purifier HEPA filter rather than two by designing the plenum to "narrow-down" with distance from a (larger width) box fan.

 

Have fun with your R and D DiY project!

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by MaxYakov

[JAS21]

26 minutes ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Has anyone seen where you can buy filters like this in Bangkok?  They are common in US at 1" thick.
 

The filter in my Ford Everest measures 20cm by 23cm ...you could maybe buy four and some cellotape ... sorry don't know the cost ...

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by JAS21

[MaxYakov]

53 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

OK I live just outside BK ... 400M from Klong Prapa which is the boarder. This morning the AQI is low ... took reading about 5:45am and it felt really humid outside which my meter showed that it was..

 

Air purifier and Air Con running all night in the bedroom

 

In the house down stairs

 

Outside

 

Just wondered what reading people are getting 'in the smoke'  ....

Sorry, Klong Prapa doesn't do it for me. Can you give us your latitude and longitude (aka GPS coordinates). These are readily available in Google Maps (if one knows how to use Google maps effectively, that is).

[JAS21]

6 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Sorry, Klong Prapa doesn't do it for me. Can you give us your latitude and longitude (aka GPS coordinates). These are readily available in Google Maps (if one knows how to use Google maps effectively, that is).

Actually Klong Prapa does it for you ... that is where your water comes from

 

Top of my road ... 13.890352 100.552969  .... apparently we are venturing into BK today to meet friends ... I'll take my meter with me and see ... if I can! ... how bad things are there .........????

[lopburi3]

From AQI website Bangkok is much improved over yesterday with reading going down after about 10PM last night - but trend now seems to be upswing with several into the red at 7AM.

[Jajazazajaja]

This is driving me up the wall now. Even a gentle stroll to 7-11 is making me feel rough. 

[balo]

Much better air quality here in Pattaya today , I got 38 outside this morning and been out on my bicycle , good air , but a bit humid.

[Rob5lax]

Problem Solved!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Has anyone seen where you can buy filters like this in Bangkok?  They are common in US at 1" thick.
 

 

Those are household furnace type filters, yes, widely sold in the U.S.

 

I've seen some like that offered by the 3M store on Lazada in the past, but not sure if still there, or if they are, probably out of stock.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On that point, my wife works in purchasing, and today, her Thai boss asked her for info about the HEPA air purifier we have at home, apparently because the boss is now thinking about wanting to buy a unit for her home.

 

So, I was checking around with some web links to provide to my wife for her boss, both for the Sharp unit we have in our bedroom, and also for the Xiaomi 2S model that some folks here have, use and have reviewed well. The latter also has the advantage of having relatively easily obtained replacement filters here in Thailand -- which often can be a challenge with other models.

 

Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but for both the Sharp model we have and the Xiaomi model, almost every website and supplier that I had bookmarked, saved or checked today showed as "out of stock" for all kinds of HEPA air purifier models. So seems to be pretty much the same situation as with the N95 masks.  Few and far between, and hard to find.

 

That's why I always say, and try to think, about being ahead of the game here, and not waiting until every Tom, Dick and Somchai figures out the air is terrible and they'd better try to do something to save their lungs. Maybe better luck with the locally produced and commonplace Hatari HEPA units....

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[MaxYakov]

8 hours ago, JAS21 said:

OK I live just outside BK ... 400M from Klong Prapa which is the boarder. This morning the AQI is low ... took reading about 5:45am and it felt really humid outside which my meter showed that it was..

 

Air purifier and Air Con running all night in the bedroom

 

In the house down stairs

 

Outside

 

Just wondered what reading people are getting 'in the smoke'  ....

Nice post and what looks to be a nice PM monitor. Can you tell us what make/model it is and where you bought it?

[MaxYakov]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

On that point, my wife works in purchasing, and today, her Thai boss asked her for info about the HEPA air purifier we have at home, apparently because the boss is now thinking about wanting to buy a unit for her home.

 

So, I was checking around with some web links to provide to my wife for her boss, both for the Sharp unit we have in our bedroom, and also for the Xiaomi 2S model that some folks here have, use and have reviewed well. The latter also has the advantage of having relatively easily obtained replacement filters here in Thailand -- which often can be a challenge with other models.

 

Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but for both the Sharp model we have and the Xiaomi model, almost every website and supplier that I had bookmarked, saved or checked today showed as "out of stock" for all kinds of HEPA air purifier models. So seems to be pretty much the same situation as with the N95 masks.  Few and far between, and hard to find.

 

That's why I always say, and try to think, about being ahead of the game here, and not waiting until every Tom, Dick and Somchai figures out the air is terrible and they'd better try to do something to save their lungs. Maybe better luck with the locally produced and commonplace Hatari HEPA units....

 

 

As a cyclist often on the road in urban Bangkok, I've always considered the air to be bad where I spend a lot of time. Even the sidewalks are too close to the road AFAIC. So, I had a ten-year head start on this particular type crisis (I've kept every worn-out mask - I have dozens and can recycle them by placing custom filter material into them).

 

In a related vein there was a humorous above-the-fold headline and article on/in today's unmentionable (here) newspaper:

 

PM Says 'abandon cars'

 

I actually bought a copy to frame and smile at every time I see it.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by MaxYakov