Short term condo rental crackdown?

[Chiangmaijoseph]

  On 1/25/2018 at 8:06 AM, jippytum said:

Your wife was given the wrong information . Less than a thirty day rental is in contravention of the hotel act and is enforced by immigration ,city hall and the land office .

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Hi, read carefully. The Immigration office does not care. It is up to the owner and the management of the condominium to see that the law of the land is followed and you need the local police to enforce it. You are right it is the condominium law which applies here. Who is complaining to who and when? No one won't publicity.!

Greetings Joseph

[david555]

  On 1/25/2018 at 1:25 AM, ThaiBob said:

Last year, a friend who occupies his condo at Jomtien Condotel (enter by Pan Pan) reported a swarm of Immigration agents performed a similar check at his condo. Until Immigration and Revenue departments start comparing notes, and identity and fine non-compliance individuals for not paying taxes these abuses of the law will continue. There are simple short-term solutions such as requiring condos to post signs in the lifts,  on each floor, in the lobby, in agents offices, that it is illegal to rent a condo unit for less than 30 days. 

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They exist already ....the signs an being used ...

[newnative]

  On 1/25/2018 at 6:57 AM, Peterw42 said:

I think you can safely assume "condotel" is not an official term, more a play on words, its a hotel. Or part of a block operating as a hotel. Lots of blocks in Bangkok have a residential tower and a hotel tower, all part of the same big complex. 

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Correct.

[The manic]

  On 1/25/2018 at 3:52 AM, newnative said:

     You made a blanket statement, I was reacting to that.  Of course the joint owners approve the by-laws but, once approved, management and the juristic should be enforcing the by-laws, many of which have restrictions against short-term rentals.  But, that's all beside the point.  You say it's not up to the building manager or juristic to restrict rentals and, in that, you are correct.  The Thai Hotel Law has already done that for you. You don't need to approve or not approve anything. It's been done.  It's the law.  So, even without a restriction written into the condo by-laws, short-term rentals are illegal under Thai law and condo management, juristic, and condo boards should be abiding by the laws of the land.  

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And do so where I live otherwise many long term renters would move out and property prices rocket downwards. Bad money drives out good money.

[digbeth]

You could technically have 'guests' stay over and how are they going to prove that they are indeed your 'friends' that has come over from abroad.

 

Other loophole is that there is no law preventing you to let to a juristic person like a company, usually the 'no subletting' is in normal rental contract but if both party agree the company renting from the condo owner could have whoever come and go as they choose

 

There are genuine business that rent a property long term for their employee but have different employee rotate in on a short term basis.

 

I don't see how any practice or condo by-law could prevent all case of short term rentals, maybe make life harder for the owner in that they must be present and register in all 'guests' in person, 

[MyFriend You]

  On 1/24/2018 at 6:59 PM, observer90210 said:

So in other words, if you have friends comming over to visit on Visa Exempt Entry say for 2 weeks,  stay in your home where you are the owner,  one must register them at immigration ?

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Legally they have to register if staying one day, but not many people do it.  I register myself every time I come into Thailand as an owner of a condo - sometimes I get funny looks from IO's when they see an older form stapled to my pspt, and always ask, 'you leave & come back to register??  Good for you.'  

[ThaiBob]

  On 1/25/2018 at 9:30 AM, david555 said:

They exist already ....the signs an being used ...

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I have seen the same signage in my friend's condo in Bangkok. I tried to get a sign like this in our condo but our lawyer nixed the idea. This is a hot topic here and controversial in our building too as some businesses and landlords see short-term rentals as a lifeline. There is no ban on short-term rentals in our C&CR's as is was never an issue in the past. My feeling is it the government's responsibility to make sure that the law is enforced (including proper signage) and regulating short-term rentals with ordinances similar to those in San Francisco which controls websites like airbnb. 

[PattayaAngel]

  On 1/25/2018 at 10:56 AM, ThaiBob said:

I have seen the same signage in my friend's condo in Bangkok. I tried to get a sign like this in our condo but our lawyer nixed the idea. This is a hot topic here and controversial in our building too as some businesses and landlords see short-term rentals as a lifeline. There is no ban on short-term rentals in our C&CR's as is was never an issue in the past. My feeling is it the government's responsibility to make sure that the law is enforced (including proper signage) and regulating short-term rentals with ordinances similar to those in San Francisco which controls websites like airbnb. 

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*sigh*

 

It is NOT the governments responsibility for YOU to understand the law and comply. It might be your 'feeling' but it's wrong.

 

Please don't say 'there is no ban on short-term rentals'  your condo is in Thailand right?  obey the LAW.

[bkk6060]

As far as ST renters hurting the values The Base is basically a hotel and it is one of the few places where the purchase prices have increased over the past 18 months.  Most places increasing approx. one million b.

The Chinese love the place #1 in town for them.

[Peterw42]

  On 1/25/2018 at 10:35 AM, digbeth said:

You could technically have 'guests' stay over and how are they going to prove that they are indeed your 'friends' that has come over from abroad.

 

Other loophole is that there is no law preventing you to let to a juristic person like a company, usually the 'no subletting' is in normal rental contract but if both party agree the company renting from the condo owner could have whoever come and go as they choose

 

There are genuine business that rent a property long term for their employee but have different employee rotate in on a short term basis.

 

I don't see how any practice or condo by-law could prevent all case of short term rentals, maybe make life harder for the owner in that they must be present and register in all 'guests' in person, 

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Yes, its not 100% enforceable but a well run block and good security can stay on top of it.

 

I have friends come to stay often, they dont get past security without saying who they are visiting, room number and name of person, security checks it against a list, security or friends call and I go downstairs to get them.

 

In an owner/long term rental block, security and office staff get to know the residents and vica versa. If a condo changes hands in my block, the old parking/lift access cards are cancelled and the new owner/lease holder needs to go to the condo office to get lift keys etc. Alternatively security will sign for parcels, leave your keys at the office and they will let tradesmen in etc.

 

They tend to notice the strangers, with luggage, turning up at 1am, in a BKK taxi with no familiarity with the block. Given that airbnb guests are blissfully unaware its illegal, most will readily present their airbnb booking details, next day its shutdown.

 

 

[Henryford]

  On 1/25/2018 at 10:56 AM, ThaiBob said:

I have seen the same signage in my friend's condo in Bangkok. I tried to get a sign like this in our condo but our lawyer nixed the idea. This is a hot topic here and controversial in our building too as some businesses and landlords see short-term rentals as a lifeline. There is no ban on short-term rentals in our C&CR's as is was never an issue in the past. My feeling is it the government's responsibility to make sure that the law is enforced (including proper signage) and regulating short-term rentals with ordinances similar to those in San Francisco which controls websites like airbnb. 

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What's it got to do with your lawyer. It's the condo committee that should decide and enforce it.

[ThaiBob]

  On 1/25/2018 at 11:39 AM, Henryford said:

What's it got to do with your lawyer. It's the condo committee that should decide and enforce it.

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When our lawyer (at great expense) tells us as a registered Condominium we must comply with the Thailand Condominium Act and we are not under Hotel Act, we listen. There is nothing in our CC&Rs about short-term rentals and coowners have different opinions about short-term rentals. Owners like myself, who live here 24/7, feel strongly about our building becoming a hotel in high season and other owners view it as a business opportunity. This is an issue we shouldn't have to deal with, the government should enforce it's own laws. Each individual owner should have the personal responsibility to follow the laws on short-term rentals but as it is with most laws there are scofflaws.

[newnative]

  On 1/25/2018 at 10:56 AM, ThaiBob said:

I have seen the same signage in my friend's condo in Bangkok. I tried to get a sign like this in our condo but our lawyer nixed the idea. This is a hot topic here and controversial in our building too as some businesses and landlords see short-term rentals as a lifeline. There is no ban on short-term rentals in our C&CR's as is was never an issue in the past. My feeling is it the government's responsibility to make sure that the law is enforced (including proper signage) and regulating short-term rentals with ordinances similar to those in San Francisco which controls websites like airbnb. 

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  There does not need to be a ban on short term rentals in your condo by-laws.  The Thai government has already done it for you.  Short term rentals in condos are illegal in Thailand by Thai law.  You should tell your lawyer that your condo should be seen to be obeying the law, not to mention actually obeying the law.  A start would be posting some signs to let the residents know this IS the law.

[newnative]

  On 1/25/2018 at 1:45 PM, ThaiBob said:

When our lawyer (at great expense) tells us as a registered Condominium we must comply with the Thailand Condominium Act and we are not under Hotel Act, we listen. There is nothing in our CC&Rs about short-term rentals and coowners have different opinions about short-term rentals. Owners like myself, who live here 24/7, feel strongly about our building becoming a hotel in high season and other owners view it as a business opportunity. This is an issue we shouldn't have to deal with, the government should enforce it's own laws. Each individual owner should have the personal responsibility to follow the laws on short-term rentals but as it is with most laws there are scofflaws.

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Umm.  Your condo needs to fire its lawyer.  Your condo is in Thailand and it and its residents are 'under' ALL the Thai laws.  Your condo and the residents can't pick and choose which laws to obey.  In the case of Thailand, the Thai Hotel Act deals with short-term rentals. The Thai Hotel Act prohibits short term rentals in condos.  Your condo and its residents don't get a pass to break the law because of where the law has been placed on the books.    

[Pattaya46]

New Phuket Condo Finds Solution For Short Term Letting

 

and this solution is... Condotel  

[ThaiBob]

  On 1/25/2018 at 2:52 PM, newnative said:

  There does not need to be a ban on short term rentals in your condo by-laws.  The Thai government has already done it for you.  Short term rentals in condos are illegal in Thailand by Thai law.  You should tell your lawyer that your condo should be seen to be obeying the law, not to mention actually obeying the law.  A start would be posting some signs to let the residents know this IS the law.

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Read this discussion and posts/comments from a Thai lawyer. I am not a lawyer and we can't go answer shopping with coowners money. Comments welcomed. 

 

http://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=674416

[newnative]

  On 1/25/2018 at 4:11 PM, ThaiBob said:

Read this discussion and posts/comments from a Thai lawyer. I am not a lawyer and we can't go answer shopping with coowners money. Comments welcomed. 

 

http://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=674416

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     I believe the part of the Hotel Act she mentions applies to privately owned guesthouses and not residential condominiums with multiple owners. 

[PattayaAngel]

  On 1/25/2018 at 4:11 PM, ThaiBob said:

Read this discussion and posts/comments from a Thai lawyer. I am not a lawyer and we can't go answer shopping with coowners money. Comments welcomed. 

 

http://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=674416

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There is a limited exception to this. A license is not required if:

1) the said place has less than five rooms;

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 1/24/2018 at 6:59 PM, observer90210 said:

So in other words, if you have friends comming over to visit on Visa Exempt Entry say for 2 weeks,  stay in your home where you are the owner,  one must register them at immigration ?

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You must do TM 30 for them, so yes.

[balo]

  On 1/25/2018 at 6:48 AM, Peterw42 said:

Otherwise most dont bother.

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You have visitors living in your house for a few days , 99% wont bother to report it.

If they did immigration need to hire 10000 new officials just to take care of TM30, because the queues would be endless. .   

[elgenon]

Regarding a fingerprint reading system working- there is now one for the back door of Stumble Inn in Nana PLaza for security reasons. Seems to work fine. But drinkers no longer have access to their toilets. Yikes!

[Mac98]

  On 1/24/2018 at 8:10 PM, simoh1490 said:

Yes, that's the law.

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Maybe you can help: I will rent Pattaya condo long-term from owner in Chiang Mai. I guess he will have to come to Pattaya to file TM30. My question is will he have to come down every time I have a visa exempt guest or can I file it?

[simoh1490]

  On 1/26/2018 at 9:32 AM, Mac98 said:

Maybe you can help: I will rent Pattaya condo long-term from owner in Chiang Mai. I guess he will have to come to Pattaya to file TM30. My question is will he have to come down every time I have a visa exempt guest or can I file it?

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I'm sorry but I'm unsure on that point, perhaps others more knowledgeable can comment.

[gk10002000]

So trying to rent a condo/room at say that big yensabai place one would have to do some paperwork and be prepared to have to register something somewhere?  The rental office or whatever could not handle things?  And this is different from staying in a hotel?

[KneeDeep]

  On 1/26/2018 at 3:17 PM, gk10002000 said:

So trying to rent a condo/room at say that big yensabai place one would have to do some paperwork and be prepared to have to register something somewhere?  The rental office or whatever could not handle things?  And this is different from staying in a hotel?

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Yensabai Condotel? 

If you rent there, you have to register your details with them, They will be available to Immigration.

This is unlike renting privately somewhere like The Base via AirBnB wherein no one but the vendor knows who you are.

[gk10002000]

  On 1/26/2018 at 3:56 PM, KneeDeep said:

 

Yensabai Condotel? 

If you rent there, you have to register your details with them, They will be available to Immigration.

This is unlike renting privately somewhere like The Base via AirBnB wherein no one but the vendor knows who you are.

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Yeah that's fine.  That is what I meant.  They do it and the renter doesn't have to make any special trip like the original poster seemed to have to do

[bkk6060]

  On 1/26/2018 at 9:32 AM, Mac98 said:

Maybe you can help: I will rent Pattaya condo long-term from owner in Chiang Mai. I guess he will have to come to Pattaya to file TM30. My question is will he have to come down every time I have a visa exempt guest or can I file it?

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He will fly down everytime.

Joking...

 

I do nothing on this.  99.9999% noone cares and noone will report you or find out about your guests.

.

[tontraveller]

  On 1/26/2018 at 9:32 AM, Mac98 said:

Maybe you can help: I will rent Pattaya condo long-term from owner in Chiang Mai. I guess he will have to come to Pattaya to file TM30. My question is will he have to come down every time I have a visa exempt guest or can I file it?

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Every condo can register with Immigration..Then they get username and password and afterwards returning owners or their visitors can go to condo office , they copy passport details and TM card, and upload on website Immigration.  So ask your condo if they have that possibillity...   When I got a long term tenant at another condo, I went myself to Imm.office with copies rental contract, tenant details and statement from that condo office that tenants indeed stayed there, plus copies my own passport.

They will accept, although formally, tenants need to do by themself.

If people come in through Immigration at airport, and did fill in  EXACT addres details, then there is no need to register again..Only when stay someplace else in a hotel or any place who sends your details to Immigration. Big Brother wants to know day by day where foreigners live at any moment during their stay in Thailand.

[Henryford]

  On 1/25/2018 at 1:45 PM, ThaiBob said:

When our lawyer (at great expense) tells us as a registered Condominium we must comply with the Thailand Condominium Act and we are not under Hotel Act, we listen. There is nothing in our CC&Rs about short-term rentals and coowners have different opinions about short-term rentals. Owners like myself, who live here 24/7, feel strongly about our building becoming a hotel in high season and other owners view it as a business opportunity. This is an issue we shouldn't have to deal with, the government should enforce it's own laws. Each individual owner should have the personal responsibility to follow the laws on short-term rentals but as it is with most laws there are scofflaws.

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You need to fire your lawyer and get your money back, he obviously doesn't know Thai law.  Short term rentals under 30 days are ILLEGAL.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 1/26/2018 at 9:32 AM, Mac98 said:

Maybe you can help: I will rent Pattaya condo long-term from owner in Chiang Mai. I guess he will have to come to Pattaya to file TM30. My question is will he have to come down every time I have a visa exempt guest or can I file it?

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Condo. The management should be able to do TM 30 for him. In any event, the management have to know you are staying and they should know what to do. That is their job.

If you don't get TM30 how can you get visa extension, if one is needed?