1 minute ago, aright said:

Islam certainly has many global problems as a result of ISIS. Imo your mistake is ISIS follows ISIS to the letter not Islam. If Islam is the problem you claim it to be why are the following countries, in the main, exempt from  on and off shore terrorism. These countries are regarded as safe and peaceful with far less hard core violence than many other Islamic nations.

Saudi Arabia....97% Muslim

Jordon.....95% M

Indonesia .....90%M

Kuwait....100%M

Algeria......98%M

 

Jordan? Jordan? It was a Christian country 30 years ago. Saudi? Bombing the S**t out of Yemen and financing terrorism from Burma to the UK. Indonesia? Kuwait? Algeria... you're joking. Islamic scholars praise ISIS for their following of the Koran and the Hadiths, which includes conquering the world. Many people in the West don't believe this. 

Why didn't you put Thailand on the list? 6300 people dead and at least 11,500 injured since 2004.

 

10 minutes ago, cooked said:

Jordan? Jordan? It was a Christian country 30 years ago. Saudi? Bombing the S**t out of Yemen and financing terrorism from Burma to the UK. Indonesia? Kuwait? Algeria... you're joking. Islamic scholars praise ISIS for their following of the Koran and the Hadiths, which includes conquering the world. Saudi? Bombing the S**t out of Yemen and financing terrorism from Burma to the UK.

Why didn't you put Thailand on the list? 6300 people dead and at least 11,500 injured since 2004.

 

Jordan? Jordan? It was a Christian country 30 years ago............and?

 

Saudi? Bombing the S**t out of Yemen and financing terrorism from Burma to the UK. References for financing terrorism in the UK?

 

Indonesia, Kuwait, Algeria .........and

 

Many people in the West don't believe this.........correct.

 

Thailand isn't a Muslim country.

 

10 minutes ago, cooked said:

Jordan? Jordan? It was a Christian country 30 years ago. Saudi? Bombing the S**t out of Yemen and financing terrorism from Burma to the UK. Indonesia? Kuwait? Algeria... you're joking. Islamic scholars praise ISIS for their following of the Koran and the Hadiths, which includes conquering the world. Many people in the West don't believe this. 

Why didn't you put Thailand on the list? 6300 people dead and at least 11,500 injured since 2004.

 

Yes, People should read the history of Islam, and be afraid.

 

23 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What we can't do is reduce immigration to the point where our population shrinks, that would be very bad for us all.

We can alter immigration policy in accordance with our needs, year by year if necessary.

Just curious, are there any current polls on how the Brexit vote would go if done today? Given that it's been such a mess and now credible charges of corruption with the Brexit side, I sure would love to see a redo. 

2 minutes ago, aright said:

Jordan? Jordan? It was a Christian country 30 years ago............and?

 

Saudi? Bombing the S**t out of Yemen and financing terrorism from Burma to the UK. References for financing terrorism in the UK?

 

Indonesia, Kuwait, Algeria .........and

 

Many people in the West don't believe this.........correct.

 

Thailand isn't a Muslim country.

 

Lebanon was invaded by Muslims Jihadis. 

You know nothing of the mosques and schools financed by Saudi in the UK... just google it for yourself.

People in the West are uninformed. Islam is doing to the West exactly what it has been saying it will do. What's not to believe? 

Southern Thailand doesn't fit your argument, even though it is majority Muslim.

Of course it is all IAW the "mushroom" plan, fed on xxxx and kept in the dark.

 

The Cabinet has yet to discuss any proposals to curb immigration after Brexit despite the looming start of talks with the EU, the Home Secretary has admitted.

The approach was criticised as “baffling” by the head of a Commons committee, who accused the Government of failing to be “honest and open” with the public on one of its key concerns.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-updates-amber-rudd-immigration-eu-talks-home-secretary-cabinet-theresa-may-a8277256.html

44 minutes ago, cooked said:

There is no choice in Islam. What does Erdogan and the majority of people in the Middle East say?

"Speaking at Kanal D TV’s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, ‘These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007".

It isn't a religion of peace, and that isn't an insult to Islam. ISIS follows Islam to the letter, that's not to be denied.

KKK? the liberal left are obsessed by the thought of the KKK ... did you ever see one? They are without significance in the scheme of things.

 

 

If ISIS had followed the Quran to the letter they'd have never made it to their favourite verses, they would have been stuck back in the early verses calling them to be patient and to endure their opposition.  Instead we saw them skip through to the rules of war and preach them like the gospel, instead of the prophet excusing their killing in a time of war as it reads in context, it reads as the prophet calling on them to kill.  Quoting out of context to manipulate your subjects is not what I would call following it to the letter.

 

As for the KKK, no I have never seen one and yes they are insignificant today, but consider back when there were as many as 6 million members and they killed thousands of people, there is a similarity to ISIS.

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Of course it is all IAW the "mushroom" plan, fed on xxxx and kept in the dark.

 

The Cabinet has yet to discuss any proposals to curb immigration after Brexit despite the looming start of talks with the EU, the Home Secretary has admitted.

The approach was criticised as “baffling” by the head of a Commons committee, who accused the Government of failing to be “honest and open” with the public on one of its key concerns.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-updates-amber-rudd-immigration-eu-talks-home-secretary-cabinet-theresa-may-a8277256.html

Nothing 'baffling' at all.

 

Liam Fox's very first overseas trip after the referendum was to India and The Philippines in search of cheap labour.

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

If ISIS had followed the Quran to the letter they'd have never made it to their favourite verses, they would have been stuck back in the early verses calling them to be patient and to endure their opposition.  Instead we saw them skip through to the rules of war and preach them like the gospel, instead of the prophet excusing their killing in a time of war as it reads in context, it reads as the prophet calling on them to kill.  Quoting out of context to manipulate your subjects is not what I would call following it to the letter.

 

As for the KKK, no I have never seen one and yes they are insignificant today, but consider back when there were as many as 6 million members and they killed thousands of people, there is a similarity to ISIS.

I see. Those earlier verses were abrogated, you can google that: if two sayings of Mohamed are contradictory then it is the latter one that is to be followed. this is a well known example of Taqqiya as told to naive Westerners.

Another example is the 'out of context' argument. 

13 minutes ago, cooked said:

Lebanon was invaded by Muslims Jihadis. 

You know nothing of the mosques and schools financed by Saudi in the UK... just google it for yourself.

People in the West are uninformed. Islam is doing to the West exactly what it has been saying it will do. What's not to believe? 

Southern Thailand doesn't fit your argument, even though it is majority Muslim.

Ten out of ten for moving the goal posts.

Southern Thailand isn't a country.

How many of the countries I listed have you been to? I have been to 3  and never felt threatened day or night and was made welcome.

On the other hand I have been to countries like Egypt recently and it was like visiting an armed camp. Tanks guns checkpoints everywhere.

When you have responsible references for your speculation we can continue this conversation.

21 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

We can alter immigration policy in accordance with our needs, year by year if necessary.

 

Yes, we could do that, we do already for non EU citizens, in fact we also did it with EU citizens, remember it was Blair who undid Thatchers clause that allowed us control of EU citizens, and we were one of only three countries who allowed in the 8 new states, we let in the Poles early in accordance with out needs, right?

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Just curious, are there any current polls on how the Brexit vote would go if done today? Given that it's been such a mess and now credible charges of corruption with the Brexit side, I sure would love to see a redo. 

So would all remainers. Nice try.

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

So would all remainers. Nice try.

I hope they keep trying. It's a YUGE mistake. Believe me. 

4 minutes ago, cooked said:

I see. Those earlier verses were abrogated, you can google that: if two sayings of Mohamed are contradictory then it is the latter one that is to be followed. this is a well known example of Taqqiya as told to naive Westerners.

Another example is the 'out of context' argument. 

 

This really isn't complicated.  I'll give you a simple example, if the first says never kill and the second says you can kill in defence, of course it is the second gets followed, but that doesn't mean you can kill if you're not defending yourself, does it?  That's where the context comes in.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I hope they keep trying. It's a YUGE mistake. Believe me. 

I think so to but nobody really knows, that is the trouble, roulette is being played with peoples lives. Those that think it will all go well should remember PM Macmillans words about what could go wrong: "Events old boy,events"

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

This really isn't complicated.  I'll give you a simple example, if the first says never kill and the second says you can kill in defence, of course it is the second gets followed, but that doesn't mean you can kill if you're not defending yourself, does it?  That's where the context comes in.

That's a very simplified interpretation. Sorry, not even Muslim scholars agree with you

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Of course it is all IAW the "mushroom" plan, fed on xxxx and kept in the dark.

 

The Cabinet has yet to discuss any proposals to curb immigration after Brexit despite the looming start of talks with the EU, the Home Secretary has admitted.

The approach was criticised as “baffling” by the head of a Commons committee, who accused the Government of failing to be “honest and open” with the public on one of its key concerns.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-updates-amber-rudd-immigration-eu-talks-home-secretary-cabinet-theresa-may-a8277256.html

The truth is that the cabinet are advised by the cabinet secretary, the

most powerful person in the UK, and he is opposed to brexit.

What could possibly go wrong?

3 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Don't upset Grouse to much, I quite like him, great entertainment,

reminds me of Alf Garnet in way.

I never get upset. Bastard! ?

2 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

The truth is that the cabinet are advised by the cabinet secretary, the

most powerful person in the UK, and he is opposed to brexit.

What could possibly go wrong?

PM May was also against it before she became PM but I don't suppose she cares personally one way or the other, she is on a nice little earner with a good pension coming up, paid for speeches when she is finished, perhaps a book or two about her fight for the will of the people.

4 minutes ago, cooked said:

That's a very simplified interpretation. Sorry, not even Muslim scholars agree with you

 

I wasn't interpreting anything, I was attempting to make a simple enough example for you, yes, the order is important, as you should be able to see in the example I gave, but so is the context, as should also be clear from the example I gave.  To dismiss the importance of reading in context as being something told to naive westerners only makes you sound like someone who have never read a book.

1 hour ago, aright said:

Islam certainly has many global problems as a result of ISIS. Imo your mistake is ISIS follows ISIS to the letter not Islam. If Islam is the problem you claim it to be why are the following countries, in the main, exempt from  on and off shore terrorism. These countries are regarded as safe and peaceful with far less hard core violence than many other Islamic nations.

Saudi Arabia....97% Muslim

Jordon.....95% M

Indonesia .....90%M

Kuwait....100%M

Algeria......98%M

 

https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-most-peaceful-Muslim-country-in-terms-of-low-crime-rate-and-peaceful-in-domestic-and-international-affairs

 

Ooh! That's nice; some of my favourite countries! 

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I wasn't interpreting anything, I was attempting to make a simple enough example for you, yes, the order is important, as you should be able to see in the example I gave, but so is the context, as should also be clear from the example I gave.  To dismiss the importance of reading in context as being something told to naive westerners only makes you sound like someone who have never read a book.

Let's keep arrogant insults out of this shall we? You misunderstood what I wrote. Islamists have a series of arguments, based on Taqqiya, I can google up a list for you if you want. One of them is the 'taken out of context' one. If you start to study Islam as I have you will see that this is a false argument. 

The context argument about warfare and so on can be applied to the Bible but not to the Koran and the Hadiths. 

Try this one and then do a bit more reading:  http://www.newenglishreview.org/Ibn_Warraq/"Out_Of_Context,"_Or,_How_To_Argue_With_A_Muslim/

https://youtu.be/b2nlIfn8tNA

There are difficulties arguing with Muslim.

24 minutes ago, cooked said:

Let's keep arrogant insults out of this shall we? You misunderstood what I wrote. Islamists have a series of arguments, based on Taqqiya, I can google up a list for you if you want. One of them is the 'taken out of context' one. If you start to study Islam as I have you will see that this is a false argument. 

The context argument about warfare and so on can be applied to the Bible but not to the Koran and the Hadiths. 

Try this one and then do a bit more reading:  http://www.newenglishreview.org/Ibn_Warraq/"Out_Of_Context,"_Or,_How_To_Argue_With_A_Muslim/

 

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

47 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I hope they keep trying. It's a YUGE mistake. Believe me. 

No, it's not.

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I hope they keep trying. It's a YUGE mistake. Believe me. 

 

I don't believe you.

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I hope they keep trying. It's a YUGE mistake. Believe me. 

Why should I believe you

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Just curious, are there any current polls on how the Brexit vote would go if done today? Given that it's been such a mess and now credible charges of corruption with the Brexit side, I sure would love to see a redo. 

 

If you're referring to the claims by Christopher Wylie, he isn't very credible.

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

You can find a hundred other verses that contradict that one. 

That's Sura 2.190. Read the next verse.

Islamic scholars agree with me, you don't.