Is "Farang" Derogatory?

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, starky said:

The majority of times I have heard farang used it does not seem to be in the context of " oh look somchai there is a person with Caucasian features and of European descent" sounds more like " check out this stupid white bloke" which doesn't bother me but I certainly understand how many find it offensive. 

Lol, using the term "Somchai", ( a generic term for a Thai man) in a thread about the generic term for a Caucasian westerner.

[SunsetT]

5 hours ago, Tassie Pete said:

..if you feel it's being spat rather than said.. issue a friendly reminder.."Khun Falang"..Mister Farang to you!..or if your in Isan and you want to "dissipate" a situation reply .."mai..bakseeda!"

.."mai..bakseeda!".......Dont know what it means but "My backsidaa to you" sounds appropriate.....lol.

[starky]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Lol, using the term "Somchai", ( a generic term for a Thai man) in a thread about the generic term for a Caucasian westerner.

Exactly you at least understand sarcasm. So wait for my next thread is somchai derogatory? Would somchai take offence at me calling him somchai or is it only Thais that get the luxury of generic labelling according to appearance or race? Love to see the response the average falang would get calling a chocolate man out.

Edited May 2, 2018 by starky

[watcharacters]

40 minutes ago, AlfonsV said:

In contrast, Thais make a difference among Asians, not calling them just Asians. They call them Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Burmese, Cambodians, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos. They can better distinguish them as we do because they are neighbours or farer "neighbours". I think that's normal.

 

That makes me feel better..

 

Silly..

 

[Sheryl]

I think there are 2 different issues getting confused here.

 

The first is whether the word per se is derogatory. For example, if describing what a person  looks like ("tall farang wearing a red tee shirt") , is the word derogatory? The answer is no, not in itself. It is neutral,  no more derogatory than say "Asian" or "African". Of course like any neutral term  it can be given a negative  spin through use of  a derogatory tone of voice.

 

The other issue is whether it is offensive to label people based on race/nationality, or reference their race/nationality in contexts where it is unnecessary or (at least to us) irrelevant.  To most of us it is. But in Thai culture it is usually not, though taken to an extreme (for example always referring to someone whose name is known as "farang" rather than by name) most Thais would agree that it becomes offensive. Not because of the word itself but because of the way it is used. Just as it would be offensive to always refer to an Asian coworker or neighbor, whose name you know, as "the Asian".  Nothing wrong with the word "Asian" but failing to call someone by name and unnecessarily referencing their race is offensive.

 

 

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

I think there are 2 different issues getting confused here.

 

The first is whether the word per se is derogatory. For example, if describing what a person  looks like ("tall farang wearing a red tee shirt") , is the word derogatory? The answer is no, not in itself. It is neutral,  no more derogatory than say "Asian" or "African". Of course like any neutral term  it can be given a negative  spin through use of  a derogatory tone of voice.

 

The other issue is whether it is offensive to label people based on race/nationality, or reference their race/nationality in contexts where it is unnecessary or (at least to us) irrelevant.  To most of us it is. But in Thai culture it is usually not, though taken to an extreme (for example always referring to someone whose name is known as "farang" rather than by name) most Thais would agree that it becomes offensive. Not because of the word itself but because of the way it is used. Just as it would be offensive to always refer to an Asian coworker or neighbor, whose name you know, as "the Asian".  Nothing wrong with the word "Asian" but failing to call someone by name and unnecessarily referencing their race is offensive.

 

 

 

If anyone want to bother to look, I have not suggested the use of the word farang is offensive.

 

I have said I find it particular how often Thais in general feel the need to express the word in general conversation.

 

Hence why I said Thailand has few "foreigners" compared to the USA.    Very few..    Thais however  frequently feel the need to use the word  "farang".

 

Funny that.

 

[SunsetT]

4 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

But back to the discussion of the word "farang", I had an interesting discussion with a Russian friend who lives in Thailand. He says that according to his Thai wife, and confirmed by mine, that as a Russian he's NOT a farang. He's a Russian.

 

I was so surprised at this, because he looks like he could have come from any European country that I did more questioningly. Consensus has that my Mexican sister in-law is also not a farang.

Yes strange. Now I will have to rethink my personal translation of 'farang' as 'caucasian'.

[Kieran00001]

48 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Yes it defines  according to the definition it has.      I respect that.     

 

Do all the other members of THV accept Oxford dictionary as the Holy Grail?

 

I have not head this before but regardless I doubt the definition you give expresses the understanding   of most Thais in terms of their usage of the word.

 

Yes?

 

 

 

 

 

As far as I know the word means Caucasian to all Thai's but is also applied loosely to mean foreigner, I am sure not all TVF members agree, but what do they know?

[Kieran00001]

33 minutes ago, starky said:

Weeeell not really there is no definitive explanation as to the entomology of farang. One possible explanation I've heard is from the Indian faringi which apparently is a derogatory term and also the example you have described which apparently is not so there isn't a real consensus at all. Which I assume why some find it offensive 

 

Firangi also comes from Frank, I have never heard it described as derogatory before, the belief is the word Frank was taken by the Persians as a term for all Caucasians and that they brought the word to other countries where it has evolved into firangi, farang, barang, etc.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think there are 2 different issues getting confused here.

 

The first is whether the word per se is derogatory. For example, if describing what a person  looks like ("tall farang wearing a red tee shirt") , is the word derogatory? The answer is no, not in itself. It is neutral,  no more derogatory than say "Asian" or "African". Of course like any neutral term  it can be given a negative  spin through use of  a derogatory tone of voice.

 

The other issue is whether it is offensive to label people based on race/nationality, or reference their race/nationality in contexts where it is unnecessary or (at least to us) irrelevant.  To most of us it is. But in Thai culture it is usually not, though taken to an extreme (for example always referring to someone whose name is known as "farang" rather than by name) most Thais would agree that it becomes offensive. Not because of the word itself but because of the way it is used. Just as it would be offensive to always refer to an Asian coworker or neighbor, whose name you know, as "the Asian".  Nothing wrong with the word "Asian" but failing to call someone by name and unnecessarily referencing their race is offensive.

 

 

A good example, but dont Thais tend to use lots of generic terms, rather than names, when referring to people. Mother can be anyone loosely associated with raising you, Aunty refers to any lady older that you know, teacher rather than the teachers name etc, even pee or nong.

[jenny2017]

17 hours ago, siamcrut said:

 

Why didn’t you reply:
Yet Mae, Mueng!

 

Telling somebody to fragg his/her mother can get you killed. That's maybe why he didn't say it? 

[alant]

4 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

Yeah, "non hurtful", such as the treatment of the Jewish community between 1933 to 1945... And, can you explain why someone would have to use "racist terms and objects"?

Sorry you lost me there in the first part of the questions as for objects I was thinking of Gollywogs

[Kieran00001]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

A good example, but dont Thais tend to use lots of generic terms, rather than names, when referring to people. Mother can be anyone loosely associated with raising you, Aunty refers to any lady older that you know, teacher rather than the teachers name etc, even pee or nong.

 

Absolutely, titles are used more than names here, its much like Germany, where for example it is normal to refer to a guest from England as 'Die Englander' instead of using their name, whereas in England it would be seen as very rude to refer to someone by their nationality, especially if you know their name.  This is one of those cases where those offended are actually just trying to impose their values on Thailand, I wonder how many of them are happy to do the same for immigrants in their country. 

[AlfonsV]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

A good example, but dont Thais tend to use lots of generic terms, rather than names, when referring to people. Mother can be anyone loosely associated with raising you, Aunty refers to any lady older that you know, teacher rather than the teachers name etc, even pee or nong.

I agree.

Also, it is a lack of differentiation in Thai mentality in general. When you ask "where are you coming from", the answer is the name of the province, even you know that already, and then you have to ask another 2 times to get a more detailed answer. In Europe, for instance, people name at least the next bigger city. Often you have the impression Thai people are bored about the effort to describe the location. It is easier to think and to speak less...

[marquis22]

Originally yes, but now not so.

[johng]

Telling somebody to fragg his/her mother can get you killed. That's maybe why he didn't say it? 

No I wouldn't say that...anyways he zoomed past and me zooming in the other direction no time to reply...I just laughed at his "idiotness" and continued on my way.

[puipuitom]

As far as I have experienced since 1993: farang just means " (white ) foreigner... Never got any impression any negative meanign was included.

But.. words in a language might change of meanings... especially when in a limited area, like... white foreigners living in ... Pattaya or....

My kind is called over a big part of the world:  blanc / white / original European...

My mother-in-law, Indonesian origin, but Dutch feelings, called our kind: "tottok"= "white Dutch (foreigner) ", her half-breed (children): "Indischen", and herself: "Inlandse" ( native Indonesian origin) ... Never any bad feelings with that.  

However, I have NOTHING to do with the Caucasus mountains, so I do not understand the US word: "Caucasian".

Same I donot understand the despise of many more-or-less brown coloured Americans, who hate the word: "Negro", already used in old Egyptian times ( NGR = God). The Romans had a name for Blacks, it was "Niger" and it meant Black or people of African origins. Thus, Septimus Niger would have meant, Septimus the Negro. 

[Kwasaki]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

More often than not, yes, but not always.

Farang / Falang your favorite thread many years back. 

[Scouse123]

19 hours ago, siamcrut said:

 

Why didn’t you reply:
Yet Mae, Mueng!

I don't think that would have been a very intelligent response at all, and not the smartest piece of advice I think a person could give out; unless he wants attacking with any tool the Thai has to hand.

[Scouse123]

25 minutes ago, johng said:

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

Telling somebody to fragg his/her mother can get you killed. That's maybe why he didn't say it? 

No I wouldn't say that...anyways he zoomed past and me zooming in the other direction no time to reply...I just laughed at his "idiotness" and continued on my way.

 

And that without a doubt in my book was the smartest move and well done!.

 

The guy screaming the comment doesn't look smart or tough, he just looks like the braindead, uneducated <deleted> that he is.

 

He might get a snigger from equally uneducated <deleted>, but you need not trouble your brain with them.

[jenny2017]

9 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

I don't think that would have been a very intelligent response at all, and not the smartest piece of advice I think a person could give out; unless he wants attacking with any tool the Thai has to hand.

What a weird advice. If somebody says that to a Thai, it's even worse calling them a buffalo. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by jenny2017

[55Jay]

Farangs are rich, and handsum by default, but if you dig a little deeper, you'll find they tend to have body odor, because they intentionally lay nearly naked under the hot sun in a puddle of their own sweat to turn their skin brown without getting paid for it.  That odd habit also exacerbates the decomposing fecal matter they schmeared around their bits with scraps of paper earlier.   Clearly, being a farang compensates for a lot, so don't be too quick to reject it wholesale.

--------

But it can work against you, especially after over-dosing on ThaiVisa rage.   For example, after 10 hours straight in the General Forum Threads, I went walked up to the village market for a bottle of Chang and SangSom, and while unraveling the sweaty bills from my pocket lint, a 7-year old Thai kid pointed at me and exclaimed, "Fah-Lang Fah-Lang!" with a big grin on his face; which we all know by now means the exact opposite of whatever we think it means, and I thought,  "You racist little shit!".     I  ran over and shook him by his shoulders vigorously, demanding he tell me what he really meant by that and in what context!     The police turned up at my house later and I sat there, rich, handsum and tan, but smelling of fecal matter, handcuffed to my refrigerator, wondering how in the hell these numpty cops found my house so quickly.    The odds are stacked against "us" all the time, so I've shelved my plan to rob the local bank until I get a darker sun tan to blend in a bit more with the natives.

--------

On the other hand, I once, and only once, had something good come of being the farang.  A Kerry delivery man was due to deliver an item from Lazada, but ran out of phone credit and couldn't call for final directions to the house.  He stopped at our nearby village market to inquire, and all the vendors and 7 year old stood in a loose knot, pointing down the Soi and said, "Yeah, that stinky <deleted> lives right over there!". 

My wife consoled me, saying it sounds more pleasant in Thai, or French, as long as you say it in a nice way.

Edited May 2, 2018 by 55Jay

[jenny2017]

3 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Farangs are rich, and handsum, but if you dig a little deeper, you'll find they tend to have body odor, because they intentionally lay nearly naked under the hot sun in a puddle of their own sweat, which exacerbates the decomposing fecal matter they schmeared around their bits with scraps of paper earlier.   Clearly, being a farang has its advantages, so don't be too quick to reject it wholesale.

--------

But it can work against you, especially after over-dosing on ThaiVisa rage.   For example, after 10 hours straight in the General Forum Threads, I went to the village market for a bottle of Chang and SangSom, and while unraveling the sweaty bills in my pocket, a 7-year old Thai kid pointed at me in the village and exclaimed, "Fa-Lang!" with a big grin on his face, which we all know by now means the exact opposite of whatever we think it means, and I thought,  "You racist little shit!".     I  ran over and shook him by his shoulders vigorously, demanding he tell me what he really meant by that and in what context!     The police turned up at my house later and I sat there, rich and handsum as I am, handcuffed to my refrigerator door, smelling like fecal matter, wondering how in the hell these numpty cops found my house so quickly.    The odds are stacked against "us" all the time, so I've temporarily binned my plan to rob the local bank.

--------

On the other hand, I once, and only once, EVER,  had something good come of being the farang.  A Kerry delivery man was due to deliver an item from Lazada, but ran out of phone credit and couldn't call for final directions to the house.  He stopped at the nearby village market to inquire, and all the vendors stood in a loose knot, pointing down the Soi and said, "Yeah, that stinky <deleted> lives right over there!". 

My wife consoled me, saying it sounds more pleasant said in Thai in a nice way, same as French. 

  Good luck with your bank robbery!

 

   

[tifino]

If it really gets to you

 

- get a bag of, and from it-  hand a Guava out to each and every person in the conversation that has just asked you for one

[MikeN]

4 hours ago, Autonuaq said:

farang is not a polite word.

 

That is teached to you when you go to school and learn Thai.

And the school in bangkok or phuket or chaing mai all teach the same farang is not a polite word

 

 

Many companies also have a policy about this and other words like this.

 

Farang is just not a polite word.

Originating from frenchman.

Somebody should tell Duke Language School that then, as they teach the use of it in their textbooks ! Mind you, they described an Argentinian as “farang” which is stretching it a bit perhaps ?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Somebody should tell Duke Language School that then, as they teach the use of it in their textbooks ! Mind you, they described an Argentinian as “farang” which is stretching it a bit perhaps ?

Not really a stretch at all.  Most Argie Bargies are mighty WHITE. 

[pacovl46]

The French were the first Caucasians Thais came across. The Thai word for France is prathet farangse and that's what I was told is where the word farang comes from. As others have mentioned it is sometimes used in a derogatory manner, but I've always considered it to be a euphemism for Caucasian. 

[LawrenceN]

5 hours ago, freebyrd said:

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by LawrenceN
Duplicate

[LawrenceN]

5 hours ago, freebyrd said:

I would offer that the correct term for foreigner is "Khon tang prathet" not Farang.

True. The phrase you use means "person of a different country," i.e. a foreigner. Includes neighbors from across the border. Malaysians, Burmese, and Japanese are not farang. Farang is used to mean someone who appears to be of European origin. While it is a racial designation, it's not necessarily racist to use it. If I have a reason to mention the race of my black friends, I do so without animosity. So do my Thai neighbors refer to me in similar fashion.

[Acemaker]

7 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

Most farangs are jai noi, I do no say all of course, but most for sure

Speak for yourself, must be due to the mostly Abnormal company you keep.