CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It certainly looks like that but only if you make monthly transfers from outside thailand 

This is a problem for me. Although I do (and always have done) transfer in excess of 65k baht every month to my Thai bank account, it isn't possible for me to prove that it comes from a foreign source. To do this would be more costly and far less convenient for me.

[steve73]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

65k in and then straight out again, all of it, would surely raise questions.

 

In my mind as well (what do you live on?)

 

But a portion of it out each month with various draw downs on the rest should be fine.

 

You can transfer I think up to 15K USD via Dee Money.

I think the only "safe" way would be to withdraw say half of it as cash and pay into a second thai account with a different bank (or even better in a trusted Thai's name), and return it to Dee from there... 

[wgdanson]

49 minutes ago, pussycatdoll said:

So Ubonjoe.....in your opinion as someone whose views I trust on here.

do you think that 500,000 in Kasikorn bank plus say 30,000 Baht into said account every month  from UK is going to be acceptable?

 

500,000 + 360,00 (12 x 30,000 ) = 860,00. Why the question?

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, steve73 said:

I think the only "safe" way would be to withdraw say half of it as cash and pay into a second thai account with a different bank (or even better in a trusted Thai's name), and return it to Dee from there... 

The new rules have only just been announced, and here are people advising others how to circumvent the law. Disgusting. It was partly because of these sort of practices that Immigration changed their requirements.

Edited January 7, 2019 by wgdanson

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

The next question is what “bank statements showing transfers from overseas”... will be accepted?... Would a bankbook with 12 months of FTT transfers be sufficient?... Will Thai bank statements printed from the Thai banks website be sufficient?... Or will they want some special bank summary document with all sorts of pretty stamps & signatures?...

 

I think they mean a letter from the bank among with a copy of your bank  book pages.  The bank book will show the transfers but depending on the bank might or might not specify international. Bank letter should clearly state this.

 

What you will need to get your bank branch to do that depends on the Bank and how their system is set up. For Kasikorn there is nothing in the system that enables branch staff to know a transfer was domestic vs international, one has to go back to the original credit advice issued by the head office when the funds arrived so good idea to start collecting those. Some other banks apparently list intl transfer in the bank book/online statement, but it might not show as intl if done by Transferwise. 

 

This is all between you and your bank. Imm does nto want to get into those details,  they want a letter from the bank stating you made monthly transfers of X amount from abroad, and a bank book that is cosnistent with that i.e. shows monthly transfers in.

[Justin Side]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

Can the 65,000 Baht per month be in a joint account?

I know the 4/8k has to be single account.

No.

[pussycatdoll]

2 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

500,000 + 360,00 (12 x 30,000 ) = 860,00. Why the question?

Because I wanted to ask it.......it is not the total amount that interests me, but the transferred amount being less than 65,000 baht.....why did you ask me?

 

[madmen]

The new rules have only just been announced, and here are people advising others how to circumvent the law. Disgusting. It was partly because of these sort of practices that Immigration changed their requirements.

Disgusting? T I Openly taking kickbacks from agents and knowing full well its totally corrupt. Now that's disgusting!

[Such a Hairy Guy]

I went to see an immigration lawyer in Bangkok today and did not get a chance to read every single post above. But he did state it is either 800K in a bank account of 65K in pension only income (investment income do do not count).

 

He also said the 800K had to be in account for at least 3 months prior to retirement renewal visa.

 

I'm relaying this as a third party so don't you all jump on my if this info is wrong.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

Not really - if you retired in Oct 18 how can you have 12 months transfers for Oct 19? The new rules were only announced this month?

Seems correct to me. If you retire in Oct 18, you must show adequate income from Nov 18 until you do your extension in 2019. So do your extn in say April 2019, you need to show Nov,Dec,Jan,Feb,March income. After that you need 12 months income every year.

[amexpat]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

This is a problem for me. Although I do (and always have done) transfer in excess of 65k baht every month to my Thai bank account, it isn't possible for me to prove that it comes from a foreign source. To do this would be more costly and far less convenient for me.

Maybe you need to change banks or transfer methods.  As stated elsewhere, funds from Transferwise are identified as "International Transfer" on Bangkok Bank statements - I don't know about other banks. 

[wgdanson]

3 minutes ago, pussycatdoll said:

Because I wanted to ask it.......it is not the total amount that interests me, but the transferred amount being less than 65,000 baht.....why did you ask me?

 

Sorry, I thought you would have read Joe's reply to my previous very similar question. 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Anyone fancy clarifying the requirements for those "retired less than one year". It doesn't make much sense to me. If you retire in Oct 18, and apply Oct 18 then they will take the Nov 18 Income, but thats in the future?@ubonjoe

 

 

I suspect that this phrase is aimed primarily at those who kick things off through (a) a single-entry non-O visa (still obtainable on the grounds of being aged 50 or over from the London Embassy for those in receipt of the UK State Pension, as well as from various embassies and consulates in this part of the world), or (b) a visa-exempt/tourist visa entry which they then convert to a non-O at their local immigration office before hitting the annual retirement extension of stay road. Unlikely in practice to apply to those who kick things off with a non-OA visa, I would have thought.

 

For what it is worth I have attached a PDF version of the new Order referred to in the OP. @ubonjoe - it would certainly be useful to see the original Thai version which we could then show to bank staff who might otherwise be bemused, bewildered and perplexed by our requests for certification letters in the early days of these new procedures at least.

 

Updated Order EN supporting income evidence.pdf

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, madmen said:

Disgusting? T I Openly taking kickbacks from agents and knowing full well its totally corrupt. Now that's disgusting!

 

OK, both are.

[mojaco]

17 minutes ago, racyrick said:

HELP!! I only have a Wells Fargo account in the US. Online will NOT allow me to do a wire transfer or a transfer to another bank account unless it's in my name. I can ONLY transfer money using ZELLE.

Therefore, I can't use TransferWise, Dee money etc.

Right now, I know my only option is to have my SS deposited to a Bangkok Bank account, which is currently not the case.

Also, possibly the IDD into Thailand when it begins.

Does anybody have any other options for me to use? I am now scared to death!

Also, how do I change the deposit of my SS from my current bank to Bangkok Bank in the US?

Can it be done online, can I call the US SSA office or can I just call the Manila SSA office?

Thanks so much for your help!!

 

I used Transferwise to set up and withdraw funds from my Wells Fargo account without any problem.  You cannot *send* from Wells Fargo, but Transferwise can *pull* from Wells Fargo.  Just start using Transferwise and go through the process to allow Transferwise to have the details of your Wells Fargo account and it is easy to set up.  Then you can *pull* as much from Wells Fargo to a bank in Thailand as much as you want.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by mojaco
spelling

[wgdanson]

9 minutes ago, Such a Hairy Guy said:

I went to see an immigration lawyer in Bangkok today and did not get a chance to read every single post above. But he did state it is either 800K in a bank account of 65K in pension only income (investment income do do not count).

 

He also said the 800K had to be in account for at least 3 months prior to retirement renewal visa.

 

I'm relaying this as a third party so don't you all jump on my if this info is wrong.

Pension income at 55 years old? This info IS wrong. The 800 for 3 months is correct.

Edited January 7, 2019 by wgdanson

[Pattaya46]

15 minutes ago, madmen said:

Disgusting? TI Openly taking kickbacks from agents and knowing full well its totally corrupt. Now that's disgusting!

They would not take kickbacks if nobody was paying agents to give them... 

[Roy Baht]

10 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Pension income at 55 years old? This info IS wrong.

Yeah TI has no way to distinguish between pension and investment income, just that it came from abroad. Hell, with 401k accounts in the US many pensions ARE investment income. But the point stands that the lump sum, 800K baht deposit, made 3 months in advance, will still be acceptable.

[JamesH]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think they mean a letter from the bank among with a copy of your bank  book pages.  The bank book will show the transfers but depending on the bank might or might not specify international. Bank letter should clearly state this.

 

What you will need to get your bank branch to do that depends on the Bank and how their system is set up. For Kasikorn there is nothing in the system that enables branch staff to know a transfer was domestic vs international, one has to go back to the original credit advice issued by the head office when the funds arrived so good idea to start collecting those. Some other banks apparently list intl transfer in the bank book/online statement, but it might not show as intl if done by Transferwise. 

 

This is all between you and your bank. Imm does nto want to get into those details,  they want a letter from the bank stating you made monthly transfers of X amount from abroad, and a bank book that is cosnistent with that i.e. shows monthly transfers in.

I emailed Kasikorn Bank earlier regarding obtaining a Credit Advice for my last TransferWise transaction and the reply I received was "If you would like to get a Credit Advice for this transaction, please kindly contact the transferring bank" Who supplies them, the transferring bank or the receiving bank?

[sometimewoodworker]

19 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Pension income at 55 years old? This info IS wrong.

Why? Some jobs allow retirement at 38

Edited January 7, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[scubascuba3]

Seems correct to me. If you retire in Oct 18, you must show adequate income from Nov 18 until you do your extension in 2019. So do your extn in say April 2019, you need to show Nov,Dec,Jan,Feb,March income. After that you need 12 months income every year.

but "retire" seems a very loose term. I'm 49 and not retired in terms of taking a monthly pension so those dates don't make sense

[Sheryl]

27 minutes ago, racyrick said:

HELP!! I only have a Wells Fargo account in the US. Online will NOT allow me to do a wire transfer or a transfer to another bank account unless it's in my name. I can ONLY transfer money using ZELLE.

Therefore, I can't use TransferWise, Dee money etc.

Right now, I know my only option is to have my SS deposited to a Bangkok Bank account, which is currently not the case.

Also, possibly the IDD into Thailand when it begins.

Does anybody have any other options for me to use? I am now scared to death!

Also, how do I change the deposit of my SS from my current bank to Bangkok Bank in the US?

Can it be done online, can I call the US SSA office or can I just call the Manila SSA office?

Thanks so much for your help!!

 

I don't understand the first part, "will NOT allow me to do a wire transfer or a transfer to another bank account unless it's in my name" since your Thai bank account should be in your own name?

 

If your Thai account is nto in your own name, or is a joint account with someone you will have to open a separate bank account in your name only anyhow in order to meet Imm requirements.

 

If what you mean is that you have an account in your name but your bank will not let you use Transferwise, you can still do a bank to bank transfer via SWIFT code.

 

Also I beleve there was a recent announcement that SSA would start doing international direct deposit to Thai banks, if so and if SS is your only income, problem solved once that comes to pass.

 

Changing SS deposit can I think be done online if you have a "MySocialSecurity" online account, many of us have been unable to establish one as it requires a US address that can be verified with US credit bureaus (i.e. just having a US address you can use, won't work, if the credit bureaus don't have any record of you at it). In that case you will have to go through SSA in Manila. Email them and they'll send you the necessary form.

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Why? 

You cannot get (state) pension at 55.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, JamesH said:

I emailed Kasikorn Bank earlier regarding obtaining a Credit Advice for my last TransferWise transaction and the reply I received was "If you would like to get a Credit Advice for this transaction, please kindly contact the transferring bank" Who supplies them, the transferring bank or the receiving bank?

The receiving bank, it is a Kasikorn document and I have always been able to get them with no problem, but I have not been using TW, I've been doing bank to bank tarnsfers.  Does TW use an intermediary bank within Thailand? If so that may be the reason, you may have to get it from the first Thai bank to see the money.

 

And you might also need something to show that this money was then transferred to Kasikorn so that the Kasikorn branch staff can know that the transfer shown in your statement/bank book is this same money. Or alternately get a letter from whatever the intermediary bank is. That might actually be simpler since just one document. Something to the effect "Mr X made X transfers from abroad of X amount and after receipt in Thailand these were forwarded to his Kasikorn account number X".

 

 

[Mickmick]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

22 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Seems correct to me. If you retire in Oct 18, you must show adequate income from Nov 18 until you do your extension in 2019. So do your extn in say April 2019, you need to show Nov,Dec,Jan,Feb,March income. After that you need 12 months income every year.

but "retire" seems a very loose term. I'm 49 and not retired in terms of taking a monthly pension so those dates don't make sense

Well if you are only 49 then you do not qualify for a "retirement" visa so chill, it does n't concern you, you don't need to worry about retirement visas or extensions yet .....

Once you do get your non O "retirement " visa you have a choice of the money in the bank method, or doing the international transfers every month.

[racyrick]

25 minutes ago, mojaco said:

I used Transferwise to set up and withdraw funds from my Wells Fargo account without any problem.  You cannot *send* from Wells Fargo, but Transferwise can *pull* from Wells Fargo.  Just start using Transferwise and go through the process to allow Transferwise to have the details of your Wells Fargo account and it is easy to set up.  Then you can *pull* as much from Wells Fargo to a bank in Thailand as much as you want.

 

Thanks for the reply, but you feel safe giving them your account bank details which allow them to "pull" money even without your consent?

Paypal has the same set up and I got ripped off one time, so I am very hesitant to give anyone my bank details that allow them to withdraw/pull money from my account.

In case I decide to pursue this method, how do I find out about this method and get signed up?

Sorry for the dumb questions, but I really don't have much net/online knowledge or savvy.

Thanks again!!

[scubascuba3]

Well if you are only 49 then you do not qualify for a "retirement" visa so chill, it does n't concern you, you don't need to worry about retirement visas or extensions yet .....
Once you do get your non O "retirement " visa you have a choice of the money in the bank method, or doing the international transfers every month.

Thought it was obvious but i plan to when 50, not long

[racyrick]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't understand the first part, "will NOT allow me to do a wire transfer or a transfer to another bank account unless it's in my name" since your Thai bank account should be in your own name?

 

If your Thai account is nto in your own name, or is a joint account with someone you will have to open a separate bank account in your name only anyhow in order to meet Imm requirements.

 

If what you mean is that you have an account in your name but your bank will not let you use Transferwise, you can still do a bank to bank transfer via SWIFT code.

 

Also I beleve there was a recent announcement that SSA would start doing international direct deposit to Thai banks, if so and if SS is your only income, problem solved once that comes to pass.

 

Changing SS deposit can I think be done online if you have a "MySocialSecurity" online account, many of us have been unable to establish one as it requires a US address that can be verified with US credit bureaus (i.e. just having a US address you can use, won't work, if the credit bureaus don't have any record of you at it). In that case you will have to go through SSA in Manila. Email them and they'll send you the necessary form.

Thanks for your reply. First off, Wells Fargo online will not allow me to do an international wire transfer AND they will not allow me to do a wire transfer UNLESS I have a domestic bank account with my name as the holder. No SWIFT transfers.

The ONLY way I can transfer online with them is using ZELLE, which is useless unless someone has a ZELLE account.

I will just have to wait for the IDD thing, but I am worried that Immigration will give me problems if my transfer is not done from overseas and the clock is ticking. My extension is due in July.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, racyrick said:

HELP!! I only have a Wells Fargo account in the US. Online will NOT allow me to do a wire transfer or a transfer to another bank account unless it's in my name. I can ONLY transfer money using ZELLE.

Therefore, I can't use TransferWise, Dee money etc.

Right now, I know my only option is to have my SS deposited to a Bangkok Bank account, which is currently not the case.

Also, possibly the IDD into Thailand when it begins.

Does anybody have any other options for me to use? I am now scared to death!

Also, how do I change the deposit of my SS from my current bank to Bangkok Bank in the US?

Can it be done online, can I call the US SSA office or can I just call the Manila SSA office?

Thanks so much for your help!!

 

You can use Transferwise.  When funding the Transferwise transfer you just select the "ACH Debit" funding option (not to be confused with funding via Debit Card funding).   Transferwise then "pulls/withdraws" the funding from your Wells Fargo account.  

 

You are correct you can not use DeeMoney to send money "to" Thailand (no one can).  It's for sending money "out" of Thailand...transfers are funded from your Thai bank account or in cash.  

 

Now for Transferwise, it can not be used to transfer money out of Thailand; it can only be used to transfer money into Thailand.   If you have a Bangkok Bank account the Transferwise transfer to that account will appear as an International Transfer which will satisfy TI that the money came from outside Thailand.   If sending to other Thai banks the Transferwise transfer may not appear as an International Transfer.....it may just a appear as a domestic/intra-Thailand transfer....not as a foreign transfer.

 

Contact/call Social Security in the States or Manila to initiate the change of bank accounts for Direct Deposit.  But keep in mind to have your SSA Direct Deposited to Bangkok Bank via ACH you will need to have your Thailand address onfile with SSA and ensure the transfer format is ACH "IAT."   Ditto (I.e, Thailand address onfile) for the soon to be IDD direct deposit method.  

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Pib

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, wgdanson said:

You do NOT have to show total monthly income from your rentals, shares or anything. All you need to show is 65k going into a Thai bank account from out of the country. NOT SO Easy.

 

But you do have to show evidence of your pension to cover that 65k baht as well.????